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Alright, please tell me where I'm going wrong here, but why are the cubs so intent about starting a washed up 36 year old with a 4.73 ERA last season in Lieber, a guy who can't pitch for more than half the season in Marquis, and a guy who hasn't been a starter since 2003 instead of a 24 year old lefty with a 3.92 ERA last season. I mean, he's only going to get better. Why is Sean Marshall not only first in line for the fifth spot, but why is he not in that no. 4 spot. Last year he tied for the second best starting ERA on the cubs. It just makes absolutely no sense to me. Why did the Cubs even sign Lieber?

First, welcome aboard Illinibullscubs, we'll be looking forward to hearing more rants like this.

Now to answer your question.

I wouldn't call the Cubs so intent on starting Lieber, but bringing him in to establish competition isn't a bad thing.

For example, look at Dumpster. How long can we call him that. From everything we've been hearing through the media, and Lou himself, this guy has made a complete commitment to turning his body in starting material. I love that.

Marshall is young and is expected to compete, but why not push his efforts some by having too many pitchers.

I'd rather have too many pitchers, than not enough.

Then lets take a look at Marquis, who hasn't done anything worthwhile in a few years. He expects to start and even shamefully expressed his concerns, which leads me to believe that the other pitchers are a legit threat to his chance of starting.

The competition at the 4-5 starting spots, I love it.

The Cubs signed Lieber so they could have many starters going into spring training fighting for a spot in the rotation. I guess they also wanted depth in case of injuries.

I am with you though, I thought Marshall showed great control of his pitches and he was very consistant. In 19 starts he had 16 games in which he gave up 4 earned runs or less.
2007 Game Log
As you mentioned, he is young, and can only get better.

1. Zambrano
2. Lilly
3. Hill
4. Lieber/Marquis/Dempster
5. Marshall

I agree Marshall should be a frontrunner to make the back end of the rotation.

I also agree that competition can only help him.

I think he is a valuable asset. I wonder why he does not seem to be thought of by the organization/media as more of a top prospect.

If you look at his career numbers including minors he is still very inexperienced. He only had 225 minor league innings. Since he has joined the majors he is showing improvement under not the best circumstances of spot starting and working middle relief. He is 6'6" and a lefty which would seem like pluses. Still just 25 years old. He does need to improve his strikeout rate, HRs allowed.

Something working against him is the Cubs current rotation already has two lefties who are going to start. For whatever reason the Cubs/Pinella seem to think you can't start lefties or lefties back to back. I am pretty certain teams on average are worse against LHP. I figure if one of the lefties go down this year Marshall would be the first candidate to take the spot.

I do not think he will make the rotation to begin with. They are going to give the veterans a chance. Marshall is still young enough that less than full season pitching load is probably a positive. He has not thrown more than 150 innings in one season so far in his career so it would be hard to rely on him for much more than that this year.

Another thing I fear is the Cubs do not value him much. He seems to be in the middle of a lot of trade talks. I am not against trading him in the right deal but it should not be for a 1 year veteran fill-in type player/trade deadline type deal.

My guess on his upside is like a Jon Garland type...#3 or strong #4 but he is still young enough to be better than that. Hopefully he fits into the Cubs future plans.

you can never have enough pitching

His arm got weaker as the season wore on. He needs more stamina and durability to last a full schedule. But, I want him in only because he has some upside.

Someone will get hurt and the rotation will sort itself out. We were very lucky last season to have no injuries to the rotation, it's not likely to happen again.

hermes wrote:you can never have enough pitching

No, you can never have enough good pitching. Lieber has not been very good the last few years. And its not like they signed Lieber so they could put him in the minors. He signed and they signed him because they expected him to start. Sean Marshall has been better than Lieber, who by the way has not shown that he's been very durable.

Instead of focusing on a player like Roberts, who they do not need, they should've focused on getting Bedard or Haren to shore up that rotation. It actually would have been worth giving up some of your top prospects for one of them. Not for Roberts, who is barely better than what you have. That is what I don't get. Getting one of those guys makes you the instant frontrunner in the NL.

Dempster, Lieber and Marquis have not shown to be very good pitchers the last few years. Marshall is better, and I just don't see why he is considered a longshot.

And we DID have injuries last year, thats the only reason Marshall started in the first place.

What injuries, you mean Wade Miller? No one expected anything from him, Hendry just took a flier on another formerly injured pitcher like he loves to do. He certainly was never really considered a real rotation member, we just threw him out to see if he didn't suck. He did. From the third week of the season, the rotation remained unchanged until Marshall was worn out.

My point is that it took injuries for Marshall to even sniff the rotation. I don't know why he's not respected like Rich Hill. I guess because he came out of nowhere, but he has proven that he can do it on the major league level.

My only point about the injuries is that we were lucky last year. Our 5 of Z, Hill, Lilly, Marshall and Marquis started more games than any other rotation in baseball, that's not likely to repeat.

About Marshall, well he's not respected at the level Rich Hill is because Hill is a lot better. He was better in the minors, better in the majors and has much better stuff.

But I still like Marshall, and if the season started today I'd like him to be in the rotation.

People like to say, Marshall's curve ball is known as Hill light, but Sean has more control on his, while Hill has nasty break and movement.

Marshall's stats today:
3.1 IP, 4 hits, 2 runs, 2 earned runs, 2 K's. His ERA for Spring Training is 3.38

Kind of figured this:
"Marshall the odd man out"
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball ... 10.article