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'14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Hammy favors Embid, page 19

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VOTE OR DIE MANY TIMES.

Embiid
58
20%
Wiggins
149
52%
Parker
56
19%
Exum
22
8%
Randle
3
1%
Smart
0
No votes
LaVine
0
No votes
Saric
0
No votes
Vonleh
0
No votes
Ennis
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 288

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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#121 » by Buckrageous » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:15 pm

steger_3434 wrote:So if every player should run up to squad 6 and beat the crap out of them. It's not nice to distract a player trying to shoot free throws. If the said player felt hurt enough that he was getting boo"d I guess he could go around pushing fans.

Im not saying what he did was right. I just find it interesting that many felt like if he got called this it was ok but he got that that so it wasnt. Everybody else is determining what he had the right to be offended by. But yeah if you are in the stands personally insulting people dont cry if you get shoved. I think its a pussy move to personally insult players because you feel protected in the stands.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#122 » by buckboy » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:20 pm

PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:Am I wrong to think Bill Self may be an overrated coach? I just don't understand how Kansas isn't a better team.


This is about the 5th time I've written this in these draft threads: Bill Self is an idiot.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#123 » by tedbrogen » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:24 pm

TroyD92 wrote:Can anybody come up with a good comparison for Wiggins? He's really unique doesn't do anything phenomenally. Has major holes in his game, but idk he just seems to be in control all the time. It's weird. Obviously he's a stud on defense just due to length and his athleticism. His offense gives me headaches.


He's so athletic that those holes in his game just might disappear when he gets a couple years older, works with NBA trainers to add some muscle to his frame, and starts playing in the more free flowing NBA game where he'd still be quicker and more athletic than almost anyone.

I'd take him in a heartbeat based on his potential to be truly special and his floor of great defender, good 3 point shooter, and devastating in the open court. Maybe he doesn't become an alpha dog, wing scorer, but he has the potential to be one and pairs very nicely with the Greek.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#124 » by buckboy » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Buckrageous wrote:
steger_3434 wrote:So if every player should run up to squad 6 and beat the crap out of them. It's not nice to distract a player trying to shoot free throws. If the said player felt hurt enough that he was getting boo"d I guess he could go around pushing fans.

Im not saying what he did was right. I just find it interesting that many felt like if he got called this it was ok but he got that that so it wasnt. Everybody else is determining what he had the right to be offended by. But yeah if you are in the stands personally insulting people dont cry if you get shoved. I think its a pussy move to personally insult players because you feel protected in the stands.


I agree with the premise that the exact words aren't all that relevant. I just think he was 100% wrong either way.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#125 » by tedbrogen » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:26 pm

buckboy wrote:
PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:Am I wrong to think Bill Self may be an overrated coach? I just don't understand how Kansas isn't a better team.


This is about the 5th time I've written this in these draft threads: Bill Self is an idiot.


Great recruiter. Bad in game coach.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#126 » by emunney » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:30 pm

Buckrageous wrote:
emunney wrote:
MadBlue wrote:A friend of mine just told me that they read a quote from Jabari saying that he might not declare for the draft because he doesn't like the teams that will likely be picking at the top. Did anyone else see/hear this anywhere? I couldn't find anything myself.


That sounds extremely out of character for him and I really doubt he said it.

That said, Marcus Smart pushed a fan for calling him a piece of crap, so who really knows any more.

What I love about the whole Marcus Smart incident was so many people justicied it if the fan said "_______" but when it was shown the fan said, "__________" Smart was clearly wrong. Either way what the fan said was derogatory. I think its funny that we are now determining what insulting comments people should be insulted by. Words are only as powerful as you make them. Just because the fan didnt say a word that many are overpowered by this guy has no right to be overpowered by a different word? A human talked sht and another human pushed him to let him know his displeasure with the insult, ho hum.


Yes, I think it's pretty silly to be emotionally overwhelmed by a fat nobody calling you a piece of crap. Not sure what to tell you if you don't perceive a difference between that and what Smart had reportedly claimed.

If you want to get into a semiotic discussion, that's a discussion I'd be happy to have. I agree in principle that we culturally spend way too much time on the signifier while largely ignoring the signified, and this leads to a cascade of new signifiers that consistently bleed back to the old, undesirable sign. Something can start out as a medical term, take on a vulgar or mean-spirited usage, then the medical community changes the signifier to something that hasn't yet attained that stigma, only to see the new term appropriated for the same usage because nothing has been done about the stigma tied to the signified.

Still, in a practical sense, some signs are a lot more complex than others. If I called you a **** nitwit, for example, you would know what I was saying (just an example -- I am NOT calling you a **** nitwit) and maybe be annoyed even if you were uncertain of the etymology of the word. On the other hand, if I called you a blue chair, you'd be like, "huh?" even if I said it with really malicious intent, because that sign is not typically used in that way. Obviously those examples are more different than 'piece of crap' and 'n----', but the point is just to draw out the fact that we both agree that there are differences we almost universally agree upon, and while language is alive and fluid, it's not that alive and fluid. Unless you're super into dada.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#127 » by Aaron It Out » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:34 pm

I still can't get past the idea of an Exum/Giannis combo. They would be fantastic together.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#128 » by SkilesTheLimit » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:36 pm

I've said since the first time I saw him play Jabari has the "it" factor. He plays with passion and an innate confidence. Wiggins gets lost in the game too often and doesn't seem to enjoy the game like Parker does.

Ted Davis mentioned on WSSP last week that he's heard that Self has told NBA scouts that he questions whether Wiggins "wants to be great." Self may have a hidden agenda but I can believe it since it's rare to see him show any real passion on the court.

I'd be happy with any of the 3 but my gut tells me that Jabari has 10x more Jordan-Kobe "killer" in him.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#129 » by SkilesTheLimit » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:37 pm

Aaron It Out wrote:I still can't get past the idea of an Exum/Giannis combo. They would be fantastic together.


My fear is neither can shoot. At least right now.

I'd like for one of my two best players to be able to knock down shots consistently.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#130 » by driese0824 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:38 pm

tedbrogen wrote:
Buckrageous wrote:
MadBlue wrote:A friend of mine just told me that they read a quote from Jabari saying that he might not declare for the draft because he doesn't like the teams that will likely be picking at the top. Did anyone else see/hear this anywhere? I couldn't find anything myself.

Terrible teams are always going to be the teams likely to get the top picks so thats terrible logic on his part. Next year its going to be a lot of the same teams drafting high, this is especially true if less guys enter the draft than expected. Also in the lottery you never know.


Exactly. The lottery doesn't even occur before the deadline to declare. For all the prospects know, the Lakers could end up winning the lottery and I'm sure just about every potential top pick would love to go play in L.A. alongsidge Kobe and whatever FA they buy.

Not to mention, when has Coach K ever had a guy who was a lock for a top 3 pick return for another season? He pretty much pushes top 3 picks out the door because it's in the player's financial best interest to do so. (See: Jay Williams, Elton Brand, Kyrie Irving)

I have only two fears with Jabari. One, he gets to the league is exposed as a horrible liability on defense (what was said above about his rotations in the first half against BC allowing open 3's and keeping the game close is absolutely spot on, once he stopped being lazy in his rotations BC had no chance of scoring and the route was on. All three of his shot blocks occurred after a lazy rotation in the second half that allowed a wide open shot that he was called out on. He definitely tries to conserve energy at times on defense and it's one of the primary reasons Duke is playing a deeper bench this year, so he is fresh as possible and everyone out there with him is also fresh), thus giving back most of his offense (it's possible he can end up as an average defender whose flaws are hidden by help defenders alongside him.) Two, he declares (which he will, it's inevitable) but then chooses the Mormon mission thing if he doesn't like what team he ends up with (but I'm not that concerned about that as people within his church are absolutely going to push him to go to the league right away as they'll see the dollar symbols of donations to their church when he starts making NBA money.)

All that said, I'd be ecstatic if the Bucks end up with Jabari, or Wiggins (do to his potential), or Embiid, or Exum. I truly don't have an order of preference. One of those 4 + the Greek and you have your Big Dog and Ray. Finding a Cassell should be possible via trade and they already have some nice young supporting pieces to surround them or use to get that third guy. Anyone else, especially guys with limited potential like Smart and Randle, would be a bummer after dealing with this season as well as everything since the 2001 ECF.


Big dog and Ray really i wouldnt go that far as both big dog and ray could shoot the lights out when they were drafted,i dont think parker shoots nearly as well as big dog and giannis wow as much as we all like him he is light years away from being close to as good of a shooter as ray.
I hope we do draft parker and feel oarker n gianns would b good together but there arnt close to those 2
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#131 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:42 pm

Who plays SF and PF if we were to start Giannis and Parker? Or does it not even matter, because we'd just play the match ups each night since both are "combo" forwards?
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#132 » by driese0824 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:46 pm

PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:Who plays SF and PF if we were to start Giannis and Parker? Or does it not even matter, because we'd just play the match ups each night since both are "combo" forwards?


I think u start giannis at 3 n patker at 4 but like u said i think they r both interchangeable
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#133 » by Buckrageous » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:48 pm

My last comment on it because I think its gotten enough attention. Yes there is a difference to most people between "n-----" and "p---- o- c---". But what if there wasnt with him? What if he was beaten as a child by someone who would always refer to him as a piece of crap? Those words could easily be more of a trigger than "n". Again I realize the power the "n" word has over many people but I wouldnt condemn someone because other words have power over them. I dont think we should see here and decide what personal insults are acceptable. I think it best if we all restrain from insulting each other and if insulted deal with it better. I dont think anyone was right in this situation. The fan is a jerk who goes to games and insults college players and I wasnt sad he got shoved. Smart confronting the fan made himself and his school look terrible and deserved the suspension.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#134 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:23 pm

Isn't the real issue that maybe Smart is roided up, and because of that he's got a short fuse?
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#135 » by pe_it72 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:23 pm

TroyD92 wrote:Can anybody come up with a good comparison for Wiggins? He's really unique doesn't do anything phenomenally. Has major holes in his game, but idk he just seems to be in control all the time. It's weird. Obviously he's a stud on defense just due to length and his athleticism. His offense gives me headaches.


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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#136 » by JimmyTheKid » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:33 pm

buckboy wrote:
Buckrageous wrote:
steger_3434 wrote:So if every player should run up to squad 6 and beat the crap out of them. It's not nice to distract a player trying to shoot free throws. If the said player felt hurt enough that he was getting boo"d I guess he could go around pushing fans.

Im not saying what he did was right. I just find it interesting that many felt like if he got called this it was ok but he got that that so it wasnt. Everybody else is determining what he had the right to be offended by. But yeah if you are in the stands personally insulting people dont cry if you get shoved. I think its a pussy move to personally insult players because you feel protected in the stands.


I agree with the premise that the exact words aren't all that relevant. I just think he was 100% wrong either way.


I feel it was ALL about the exact words. If it was racist, I have no problem with Marcus Smart slapping some old redneck upside the head. If it was typical "you suck" fan taunts, Smart was out of line. It doesn't take a master lip reader to see Smart say "you called me a n*****" Whether he simply heard wrong or the old man is lying, I guess we'll never know. But the n-word and "you're a piece of crap" sound nothing alike. Racism is one of the few good reasons to fight.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#137 » by JimmyTheKid » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:34 pm

Buckrageous wrote:My last comment on it because I think its gotten enough attention. Yes there is a difference to most people between "n-----" and "p---- o- c---". But what if there wasnt with him? What if he was beaten as a child by someone who would always refer to him as a piece of crap?


Come on man.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#138 » by SkilesTheLimit » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:37 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:
Buckrageous wrote:My last comment on it because I think its gotten enough attention. Yes there is a difference to most people between "n-----" and "p---- o- c---". But what if there wasnt with him? What if he was beaten as a child by someone who would always refer to him as a piece of crap?


Come on man.


Yeah he's really reaching there. Sometimes it's best not to make excuses for ones behavior and instead demand personal accountability. Say the guy **** up and lost his cool. We've all had a moment like that in our lives. When one starts to pass the buck and rationalize a stupid action is where I get PO'd.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#139 » by LUKE23 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:01 pm

Per 40 freshman year stats:

Paul George: 16.6 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2.0 steals, 1.2 blocks, .486 2%, .447 3%, .586 TS
Andrew Wiggins: 19.9 points, 7.1 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.2 steals, 1.0 blocks, .470 2%, .367 3%, .551 TS

Basically, George was a better jumpshooter at this stage, although Wiggins is better from the line as a freshman than George was. To me, Wiggins is the better athlete as well.

To me, the comparisons are (based on ceiling of players, not what they are a lock to become):

Embiid-Olajuwon
Wiggins-More athletic George
Parker-Carmelo

Those comparisons are based on age vs. age production and physical profiles of the players.
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Re: '14 Draft Thread - PART 3, Y'ALL. 

Post#140 » by chonestown » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:12 pm

Still have Wiggins at #1.

1: Wiggins
2: Embiid
3: Exum

I'd be ecstatic with any of those 3. Parker, to me, is a consolation prize.

Even though I have Wiggins #1, still want Exum to land on the Bucks. Would have no problem at all with him going #1.
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