Time to Trade Fred VanVleet II

[anotherhomer]

You not trading towns friend in D'Angelo

Wolves fan here, just trying to gauge TOR’s response to FVV’s tweet, especially since DLo retweeted it yesterday.

I wanted to pass along that DLo is probably on the block, regardless of KAT’s friendship with him. There was a curious series of events recently

December 31. Wolves lose sixth game in a row. Hold “Players Only” meeting.

January 2. Russell sits out game for “illness.” Wolves go on to beat league-leading DEN 124-111.

January 4. Russell retweets FVV’s “bet on yourself.” DLo unfollows the Timberwolves on Instagram.

January 4. Russell starts vs POR, but he is benched the last six minutes of crunch time when MIN was only ahead by 2. The Wolves go on to win 113-106.

I’m wondering about the event we’re not seeing. Is it possible that in the Player’s Only meeting, DLo hears other players discontent that he likes to probe rather than swing the ball immediately, and he gets angry and sits out the next game? Then when MIN wins, he feels nervous about his future and on the morning of Jan 4 talks to the team about an extension, and doesn’t get a response he likes?


Anyway, I saw your post, and I thought I’d mention that MIN is probably fielding offers on DLo. If they don’t extend him, they also need to trade him for CBA reasons, to maintain his salary slot next year, and/or to break him into bite size pieces to trade elsewhere (probably attached to Naz Reid).

Good luck with your FVV issues - I feel them with DLo.

A swap here may make sense

[goinrogue]

Fred’s ego is not a bad thing. A big reason why he’s in the position that he’s in now is because he’s so egotistical. He’s a legend in his own mind. The issue is is that it could end up being his undoing. He said to thr media multiple times now that he’s not happy with a reduced role on the team, but his usage rate is only slightly less than it was last year. That’s not good enough for him even though he’s less talented than Gary, OG and Scottie.
Contending teams are not going to want him to shoot more than their star players. Rebuilding teams are not going to want him shooting more than their young budding stars.

[Rapsfan07]

The time to move him was last year instead of moving down in the draft to add a vet to team that wasn't good enough in the first place.

If FVV is being moved at the deadline (and who knows for sure if that'll happen), my hope is it's in a much bigger deal. Because I can't see teams moving much for a guy who is expiring, undersized for either guard spot and has been in a "shooting slump" for the last calendar year.

BUT Thad Young provides leadership

Shiiii is still funny to this day how people rationalized that. And then on top of that, say the Raptors wanted Koloko all along.

The issue with the processing of the general public is that they tend to view the Raptors front office through a filter, whether it be good or bad. Let me just be clear - there is nothing wrong with have a preference of which direction the team should take at any given juncture BUT I find there is a lot of trying to justify when the front office does things that don't make sense.

Instead of just realizing that as good as Masai and Bobby are, they're humans and make mistakes too. They are not infallible.

[Reeko]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

[Son Goku 25]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

Selfish but can't hate I guess, man needs to feed his family.

Also, since we aren't planning on winning any time soon it seems like and he has been more of an issue for the development of our guys rather than help, trade his ass to Chicago for Lonzo ball and picks.

[Zeno]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

That is a possible reading, I admit but I think right now people are gravitating to the least generous possible interpretation of everything Fred says. It just sounds to me like a guy desperate to project confidence in the hopes that he’ll fool himself into believing it. Athletes are trained to do this. Fred must know his final year numbers didn’t get him into the all-star game, his 1st half numbers did and they were not that.
In the end, I don’t think Fred is a selfish player. I believe in his intent to do what is possible to help the team win. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter cause he seems to be incapable of doing that. Time to move on, but I just generally don’t feel the need to dislike him personally.

[ItsDanger]

Fred has same FGA per game as Jokic, Harden, Banchero amongst others. That's clearly an ego issue.

Spoiler:

[brownbobcat]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

Irrational confidence is a double-edged sword. If FVV never had that mentality, he wouldn't have made it this far as an unathletic, undrafted 6ft guard.

[Swag]

Agreed, they shouldn’t have had Fred as a leader. He came across as a selfish leader where it was all about “bet on yourself” attitude and would seem to always throw other players under the bus with backhanded comments, he’d always blame the younger players.

Compare FVVs leadership to Lowry, Lowry would always be supportive towards his teammates and would never throw his teammates under the bus, if a player had a great game he’d go out of his way to compliment said player.

It’s just night and day difference of leadership qualities btw FVV and Lowry

You nailed it with this post.

Fred has lost more than money this season - he's lost the good standing he had with this fanbase.

With each passing day, I'm hearing more and more people acknowledging his insecure, selfish mindset.

Freddy Allstar!
Bet On Yourself!
The Project!
ALL THE AWARDS!

Leadership.
Rips/deflections.

More like Freddy Fraud

[Fairview4Life]

Fred has same FGA per game as Jokic, Harden, Banchero amongst others. That's clearly an ego issue.

Spoiler:

Fred's USG is 22.4%.
Jokic's is 28.5%
Harden's is 26.1%
Banchero's is 28.2%

When a player is fouled and misses, it doesn't get included in FGA numbers. Fred doesn't get fouled a lot so you think he is jacking up as many shots as those guys, but he isn't. He's currently 71st in the league in USG% and below Pascal and GTJ from the Raps.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_advanced.html#advanced_stats::usg_pct

[ATLTimekeeper]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

Shooters are supposed to keep shooting. In the case of last night, he did have to control the offense more because everyone sucked. If he just sat around for 3 Qs this would have been a massive blowout. The comment was more troubling because it was disparaging of the team. But, his mentality is 100% what you need from your money players.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Fred has same FGA per game as Jokic, Harden, Banchero amongst others. That's clearly an ego issue.

Spoiler:

Fred's USG is 22.4%.
Jokic's is 28.5%
Harden's is 26.1%
Banchero's is 28.2%

When a player is fouled and misses, it doesn't get included in FGA numbers. Fred doesn't get fouled a lot so you think he is jacking up as many shots as those guys, but he isn't. He's currently 71st in the league in USG% and below Pascal and GTJ from the Raps.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_advanced.html#advanced_stats::usg_pct

This **** is common knowledge. Embarrassing.

[ItsDanger]

Fred has same FGA per game as Jokic, Harden, Banchero amongst others. That's clearly an ego issue.

Spoiler:

Fred's USG is 22.4%.
Jokic's is 28.5%
Harden's is 26.1%
Banchero's is 28.2%

When a player is fouled and misses, it doesn't get included in FGA numbers. Fred doesn't get fouled a lot so you think he is jacking up as many shots as those guys, but he isn't. He's currently 71st in the league in USG% and below Pascal and GTJ from the Raps.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_advanced.html#advanced_stats::usg_pct

If I have one of the worst FG% in the entire league, I wouldn't be shooting as much as this guy.

[Swag]

You not trading towns friend in D'Angelo

Wolves fan here, just trying to gauge TOR’s response to FVV’s tweet, especially since DLo retweeted it yesterday.

I wanted to pass along that DLo is probably on the block, regardless of KAT’s friendship with him. There was a curious series of events recently

December 31. Wolves lose sixth game in a row. Hold “Players Only” meeting.

January 2. Russell sits out game for “illness.” Wolves go on to beat league-leading DEN 124-111.

January 4. Russell retweets FVV’s “bet on yourself.” DLo unfollows the Timberwolves on Instagram.

January 4. Russell starts vs POR, but he is benched the last six minutes of crunch time when MIN was only ahead by 2. The Wolves go on to win 113-106.

I’m wondering about the event we’re not seeing. Is it possible that in the Player’s Only meeting, DLo hears other players discontent that he likes to probe rather than swing the ball immediately, and he gets angry and sits out the next game? Then when MIN wins, he feels nervous about his future and on the morning of Jan 4 talks to the team about an extension, and doesn’t get a response he likes?


Anyway, I saw your post, and I thought I’d mention that MIN is probably fielding offers on DLo. If they don’t extend him, they also need to trade him for CBA reasons, to maintain his salary slot next year, and/or to break him into bite size pieces to trade elsewhere (probably attached to Naz Reid).

Good luck with your FVV issues - I feel them with DLo.

You can have FVV, give us DLo and a bag of chips.

Actually, just the bag of chips is fine.

[Rapsfan07]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

Truthfully speaking, even for a PG, 40% isn't very good. Not if the plan is to make him top 3 in our offensive pecking order, anyway.

[TRik]

This guy said last night that his shooting averages will get back to what they were last season 40% FG and 37% 3FG, which made him an All Star.

What I heard was: I'm going to keep shooting in the hopes that my averages get back to where they were when I was an All Star, so that I can get paid like an All Star. If I have to hijack the offense and make myself the #1 option to do so, then so be it.

Yuuup.

I actually think he feels a bit offended that he doesn’t get to play like Luka or something, with the ball always in his hands and he gets to shoot whenever.

He’s given a few interviews now where he said he’s at his best with higher usage, but it’s like he doesn’t see that isn’t best for the team long term. He just wants his numbers.

[anotherhomer]

You not trading towns friend in D'Angelo

Wolves fan here, just trying to gauge TOR’s response to FVV’s tweet, especially since DLo retweeted it yesterday.

I wanted to pass along that DLo is probably on the block, regardless of KAT’s friendship with him. There was a curious series of events recently

December 31. Wolves lose sixth game in a row. Hold “Players Only” meeting.

January 2. Russell sits out game for “illness.” Wolves go on to beat league-leading DEN 124-111.

January 4. Russell retweets FVV’s “bet on yourself.” DLo unfollows the Timberwolves on Instagram.

January 4. Russell starts vs POR, but he is benched the last six minutes of crunch time when MIN was only ahead by 2. The Wolves go on to win 113-106.

I’m wondering about the event we’re not seeing. Is it possible that in the Player’s Only meeting, DLo hears other players discontent that he likes to probe rather than swing the ball immediately, and he gets angry and sits out the next game? Then when MIN wins, he feels nervous about his future and on the morning of Jan 4 talks to the team about an extension, and doesn’t get a response he likes?


Anyway, I saw your post, and I thought I’d mention that MIN is probably fielding offers on DLo. If they don’t extend him, they also need to trade him for CBA reasons, to maintain his salary slot next year, and/or to break him into bite size pieces to trade elsewhere (probably attached to Naz Reid).

Good luck with your FVV issues - I feel them with DLo.

You can have FVV, give us DLo and a bag of chips.

Actually, just the bag of chips is fine.

Fvv filled for dlo make sense

But I may like lonzo for fvv tho riskier because of the extra year

[Swag]

Wolves fan here, just trying to gauge TOR’s response to FVV’s tweet, especially since DLo retweeted it yesterday.

I wanted to pass along that DLo is probably on the block, regardless of KAT’s friendship with him. There was a curious series of events recently

December 31. Wolves lose sixth game in a row. Hold “Players Only” meeting.

January 2. Russell sits out game for “illness.” Wolves go on to beat league-leading DEN 124-111.

January 4. Russell retweets FVV’s “bet on yourself.” DLo unfollows the Timberwolves on Instagram.

January 4. Russell starts vs POR, but he is benched the last six minutes of crunch time when MIN was only ahead by 2. The Wolves go on to win 113-106.

I’m wondering about the event we’re not seeing. Is it possible that in the Player’s Only meeting, DLo hears other players discontent that he likes to probe rather than swing the ball immediately, and he gets angry and sits out the next game? Then when MIN wins, he feels nervous about his future and on the morning of Jan 4 talks to the team about an extension, and doesn’t get a response he likes?


Anyway, I saw your post, and I thought I’d mention that MIN is probably fielding offers on DLo. If they don’t extend him, they also need to trade him for CBA reasons, to maintain his salary slot next year, and/or to break him into bite size pieces to trade elsewhere (probably attached to Naz Reid).

Good luck with your FVV issues - I feel them with DLo.

You can have FVV, give us DLo and a bag of chips.

Actually, just the bag of chips is fine.

Fvv filled for dlo make sense

But I may like lonzo for fvv tho riskier because of the extra year

I dont see the Bulls giving up Lonzo for FVV.

As a Raptors fan, I would def do that trade in a heartbeat.

[Rapsfan07]

I've said for a while now that the Bulls are a really great trading partner for us.

I like Lonzo - I know his health has been an issue but we managed to keep Kawhi healthy enough to win a chip playing major minutes (mind you, I know that their issues are not the same) so I would take the chance. He's young, on a very affordable contract, very big for a PG, has improved considerably as a shooter, can get to the basket and score and is a natural facilitator.

We shouldn't be looking to compete this season anyway so let him rest and rehab and we'll fire it up again next season with our fresh new lotto pick as well. Oh and by the way, we won't have to pay FVV his new deal.

Seems like a win-win-win in my eyes.

[Psubs]

You can have FVV, give us DLo and a bag of chips.

Actually, just the bag of chips is fine.

Fvv filled for dlo make sense

But I may like lonzo for fvv tho riskier because of the extra year

I dont see the Bulls giving up Lonzo for FVV.

As a Raptors fan, I would def do that trade in a heartbeat.

Some people are even proposing Lonzo and PWill for FVV. Yes, I would do Lonzo for FVV straightup. He's proven to have developed a decent 3pt shot, plays good defense, good size and isn't ball-dominant.