2022 SPURS OFF-SEASON ROSTER NEWS, RUMOURS & TRADE IDEAS

[Phreak50]

Suns fan here, thoughts on this:

Ayton, Payne, Shamet, 2024 1st, 2025 swap, 2026 1st (all unprotected)
for
Murray, Poetl

I don't rate either Spurs player there but that is a horrible waste of a trade.

We could just sign Ayton ourselves and trade the others for other pieces.

[mzfk69]

Suns fan here, thoughts on this:

Ayton, Payne, Shamet, 2024 1st, 2025 swap, 2026 1st (all unprotected)
for
Murray, Poetl

To begin with, a little bit of math:

1. The max that Eyton wants to receive will be equal to $131.1 million. In the first year of the contract, he will be able to receive approximately $ 30.5 million

2. Taking into account the "Base Year Compensation" rule, only 50% of the first year of the contract will be counted as the outgoing salary for the Suns and all 30.5 million for the host team. That is, taking into account all the rules, Phoenix can get a player or a combination of players with a total salary of no more than $ 19.162 million, that is, no "Gobers". (rule 125% +100 thousand).

3. After S&T, a hard salary cap will be activated for the host team, which for the 22-23 season will be approximately $ 155.2 million. I.e., the host team will have to have less than this amount in the payment after the trade. In the season 21-22, there were 4 teams with a payment of more than 150 million, for the season 22-23, there are already 11 teams in which the salaries of an active roster exceed 150 million. After the exchanges, of course, there will be fewer of them, but we will proceed from what we have now.

4. In the S&T, "Sans" cannot send anyone in combination with Ayton, which complicates the math on salaries.

Therefore, a pinch of options remains: "Indiana" (on Turner + peak), "Atlanta" (Capella + peak) and "New Orleans" (Valancunas + peak). Agree not what I would like to get for a person claiming to be the maximum. Moreover, the Hawks and Pelicans will have to be sophisticated, since Eyton's max will not fit under a hard ceiling, taking into account their current roster. Therefore, only Indiana remains of the real contenders, but there is already a question of the expediency of such a move for the Pacers themselves.

In any case, taking into account the above, there is a 90% probability that Phoenix will simply repeat the offer to Aiton and will trade it on deadline (we will leave 10% for Turner + peak). So guys: We'll see Eyton in the Phoenix uniform later.

[imagump1313]

Suns fan here, thoughts on this:

Ayton, Payne, Shamet, 2024 1st, 2025 swap, 2026 1st (all unprotected)
for
Murray, Poetl

I appreciate the effort, I really do. But this is such a one sided trade.

How about we do Booker, Bridges for McDermott, Lonnie Walker and our 2024 2nd, 2026 2nd and 2028 2nd?

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

ATL fan coming in peace... with a hypothetical, if you dare...

Assume SAS and ATL cannot get together on a trade with Murray and Collins as the principals...

Two part question.

If you're SAS and you really want Collins nonetheless, what do you offer ATL instead that doesn't involve Murray.

And.

Same shoe, other foot... if you're ATL and you really want Murray nonetheless, what do you offer SAS that doesn't involve Collins?



It goes without saying, but I'll say it... construct and offer up the most reasonable and fair trades to both sides that you can conjure up. Interested to see what people come up with.

(I ask, having no predetermined answer of my own. Just had the thought pass my puny brain during the dog walk tonight.)

[imagump1313]

ATL fan coming in peace... with a hypothetical, if you dare...

Assume SAS and ATL cannot get together on a trade with Murray and Collins as the principals...

Two part question.

If you're SAS and you really want Collins nonetheless, what do you offer ATL instead that doesn't involve Murray.

And.

Same shoe, other foot... if you're ATL and you really want Murray nonetheless, what do you offer SAS that doesn't involve Collins?



It goes without saying, but I'll say it... construct and offer up the most reasonable and fair trades to both sides that you can conjure up. Interested to see what people come up with.

(I ask, having no predetermined answer of my own. Just had the thought pass my puny brain during the dog walk tonight.)

I'm afraid we really don't have anything to offer the Hawks that would match Collins salary without including Murray. Well, anything you would want in return anyway. I'm not giving up Poeltl. Not for Collins and the only thing we have besides Murray with a sizeable contract is some combination of McDermott/Richardson or Langford and who wants that?

Now if we decide to go into an even deeper rebuild ourselves and give you Murray I would want some unprotected #1's (probably 2 of them). There is really no one on your roster I would want if we are going that route. We could take Gallinari as a salary dump but I think he only counts 5 million against your cap anyway next year.

[Phreak50]

I like Jakob as human.

I love his defense too.

But he is quickly becoming unplayable in the current state of the game.

Plus, sometimes he goes up softer than Tiago Splitter and other times he rocks the rim hard. It makes no sense.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Okay, I gave it some thought over night... here are my proposals per my riddle...



SAS effectively gets:

a) Their supposedly highly desired 3 FRPs--ie, ATL's 2021, 2022, and one for the upcoming highly anticipated 2023 draft

b) A highly regarded young PG who dropped out of last year's first round and into ATL's lap, and who impressed late in the G-League season

c) A vet asset that supposedly ATL gets the 2nd most calls about, Huerter

ATL gets:

a) A player they no doubt perceive to be a significant piece in the pursuit of vaulting into the EC's highest tier



ATL effectively gets:

a) Supposedly ATL's primary 2021 draft target

b) An intriguing but too-often injured alternative to Collins at PF

c) A future FRP

d) A trade exception to put in their back pocket for February, and if not used, at least some payroll benefit

SAS gets:

a) A player they no doubt perceive to be a significant piece in the pursuit of vaulting into the WC's highest tier

[G R E Y]

Okay, I gave it some thought over night... here are my proposals per my riddle...



SAS effectively gets:

a) Their supposedly highly desired 3 FRPs--ie, ATL's 2021, 2022, and one for the upcoming highly anticipated 2023 draft

b) A highly regarded young PG who dropped out of last year's first round and into ATL's lap, and who impressed late in the G-League season

c) A vet asset that supposedly ATL gets the 2nd most calls about, Huerter

ATL gets:

a) A player they no doubt perceive to be a significant piece in the pursuit of vaulting into the EC's highest tier



ATL effectively gets:

a) Supposedly ATL's primary 2021 draft target

b) An intriguing but too-often injured alternative to Collins at PF

c) A future FRP

d) A trade exception to put in their back pocket for February, and if not used, at least some payroll benefit

SAS gets:

a) A player they no doubt perceive to be a significant piece in the pursuit of vaulting into the WC's highest tier

I think you'd have to pry Primo and a pick out of Brian Wright's cold dead hands lol

With Sochan I think we are less inclined to want Collins but if we do it will be for shorter contracts you need to pay other players and for guys who can run off ball and stretch the floor ie/Doug and JRich.

As for DJ, when the 3 good 1st round picks are mentioned it means actual picks not players already selected with them. These are different assets for teams to work with. Sorry but I really don't know enough about those players to say wow what a prospect.

It's already been reported that ATL doesn't have the package we would want, though whether that is because Atl didn't want to part with certain players or picks we don't know.

I'll have to look up specific packages a bit later, but thanks for your ideas so far.

[imagump1313]

I like Jakob as human.

I love his defense too.

But he is quickly becoming unplayable in the current state of the game.

Plus, sometimes he goes up softer than Tiago Splitter and other times he rocks the rim hard. It makes no sense.

I know exactly what you're saying.

The biggest thing I love about him though is his price tag. Like I said earlier, if we want to speed up this rebuild we are going to have to maximize Poeltl.

We all see the holes in his game. But this is the exact reason we have our starting center on the cheap and even if we sign him to an extension I'm guessing it will be in the 18-25 million range.

For us to get some all around polished center of even ones with holes in their games themselves(Gobert, Ayton) we are going to be paying 35-45 million plus gutting whoever on our roster is decent to get them. By keeping Poeltl we are potentially paying half the price and not giving up a bunch of other assets.

We can make it a priority to be a better FT shooter and try to get him to be more aggressive around the rim. For the price and what we are getting from him we are making out like bandits because he shows flashes of being just as good or even better than those other more expensive guys.

IMO we need to use the money we save on Poeltl on overpaying to get some big FA's to come here instead because if we spend it on a center we are just spinning our wheels.

[G R E Y]

I like Jakob as human.

I love his defense too.

But he is quickly becoming unplayable in the current state of the game.

Plus, sometimes he goes up softer than Tiago Splitter and other times he rocks the rim hard. It makes no sense.

I know exactly what you're saying.

The biggest thing I love about him though is his price tag. Like I said earlier, if we want to speed up this rebuild we are going to have to maximize Poeltl.

We all see the holes in his game. But this is the exact reason we have our starting center on the cheap and even if we sign him to an extension I'm guessing it will be in the 18-25 million range.

For us to get some all around polished center of even ones with holes in their games themselves(Gobert, Ayton) we are going to be paying 35-45 million plus gutting whoever on our roster is decent to get them. By keeping Poeltl we are potentially paying half the price and not giving up a bunch of other assets.

We can make it a priority to be a better FT shooter and try to get him to be more aggressive around the rim. For the price and what we are getting from him we are making out like bandits because he shows flashes of being just as good or even better than those other more expensive guys.

IMO we need to use the money we save on Poeltl on overpaying to get some big FA's to come here instead because if we spend it on a center we are just spinning our wheels.

Actually Ayton's max is here somewhere a few posts prior. His final top year would be mid-30s and he would be around Jakob's age now when it finished. And he's already averaging more than Jakob on a rookie contract. Much higher ceiling.

Counting college, he's had NINE years of trying to improve his FTs. Only once did he break the .600 percentage. At some point we have to accept the ceiling here, especially on FTs.

Jakob on 18-25 would be insane lmao the higher end is John Collins territory. MUCH rather have Ayton than Jakob on their next contracts who fits our timeline, whose broader skill set we can utilize more, no longer have to be handcuffed by Jakob's O limitations. We're not paying double for Ayton than Jakob, but you do have to give something up to get something. With where Suns are and where we are, they could use a workman C who doesn't need the ball as much whereas we can use Ayton more than he was utilized on the Suns who prioritize three guards. I can see how for them it makes less sense to max out Ayton given how they use him.

And for waiting for true FAs, well when you get a chance at RFA and it costs you some short contracts and no one from our long-term core to secure higher talent, it's hard to pass up.

[imagump1313]

I like Jakob as human.

I love his defense too.

But he is quickly becoming unplayable in the current state of the game.

Plus, sometimes he goes up softer than Tiago Splitter and other times he rocks the rim hard. It makes no sense.

I know exactly what you're saying.

The biggest thing I love about him though is his price tag. Like I said earlier, if we want to speed up this rebuild we are going to have to maximize Poeltl.

We all see the holes in his game. But this is the exact reason we have our starting center on the cheap and even if we sign him to an extension I'm guessing it will be in the 18-25 million range.

For us to get some all around polished center of even ones with holes in their games themselves(Gobert, Ayton) we are going to be paying 35-45 million plus gutting whoever on our roster is decent to get them. By keeping Poeltl we are potentially paying half the price and not giving up a bunch of other assets.

We can make it a priority to be a better FT shooter and try to get him to be more aggressive around the rim. For the price and what we are getting from him we are making out like bandits because he shows flashes of being just as good or even better than those other more expensive guys.

IMO we need to use the money we save on Poeltl on overpaying to get some big FA's to come here instead because if we spend it on a center we are just spinning our wheels.

Actually Ayton's max is here somewhere a few posts prior. His final top year would be mid-30s and he would be around Jakob's age now when it finished. And he's already averaging more than Jakob on a rookie contract. Much higher ceiling.

Counting college, he's had NINE years of trying to improve his FTs. Only once did he break the .600 percentage. At some point we have to accept the ceiling here, especially on FTs.

Jakob on 18-25 would be insane lmao the higher end is John Collins territory. MUCH rather have Ayton than Jakob on their next contracts who fits our timeline, whose broader skill set we can utilize more, no longer have to be handcuffed by Jakob's O limitations. We're not paying double for Ayton than Jakob, but you do have to give something up to get something. With where Suns are and where we are, they could use a workman C who doesn't need the ball as much whereas we can use Ayton more than he was utilized on the Suns who prioritize three guards. I can see how for them it makes less sense to max out Ayton given how they use him.

And for waiting for true FAs, well when you get a chance at RFA and it costs you some short contracts and no one from our long-term core to secure higher talent, it's hard to pass up.

I'm going on the assumption that Poeltl isn't going to get 30+ a year on a new contract. What Im saying is that we can try to improve big time in other areas instead of breaking the bank just to improve a little bit at the 5. We aren't going to be able to do that otherwise.

Honestly, how much better are we going to be with Ayton instead of Poeltl and no other changes? Instead of a fringe play in team we win a play in game then get swept in the real playoffs? We have way too many areas that need improvement than just throwing it all at one position.

[mzfk69]

https://youtu.be/AIGpzKS6V3A?t=498 (8:18)
Brian Wright has been talking about this for the second year in a row.
So i don't think Spurs values the classic bigmen so highly to pay them 30+ million a year.

[G R E Y]

I know exactly what you're saying.

The biggest thing I love about him though is his price tag. Like I said earlier, if we want to speed up this rebuild we are going to have to maximize Poeltl.

We all see the holes in his game. But this is the exact reason we have our starting center on the cheap and even if we sign him to an extension I'm guessing it will be in the 18-25 million range.

For us to get some all around polished center of even ones with holes in their games themselves(Gobert, Ayton) we are going to be paying 35-45 million plus gutting whoever on our roster is decent to get them. By keeping Poeltl we are potentially paying half the price and not giving up a bunch of other assets.

We can make it a priority to be a better FT shooter and try to get him to be more aggressive around the rim. For the price and what we are getting from him we are making out like bandits because he shows flashes of being just as good or even better than those other more expensive guys.

IMO we need to use the money we save on Poeltl on overpaying to get some big FA's to come here instead because if we spend it on a center we are just spinning our wheels.

Actually Ayton's max is here somewhere a few posts prior. His final top year would be mid-30s and he would be around Jakob's age now when it finished. And he's already averaging more than Jakob on a rookie contract. Much higher ceiling.

Counting college, he's had NINE years of trying to improve his FTs. Only once did he break the .600 percentage. At some point we have to accept the ceiling here, especially on FTs.

Jakob on 18-25 would be insane lmao the higher end is John Collins territory. MUCH rather have Ayton than Jakob on their next contracts who fits our timeline, whose broader skill set we can utilize more, no longer have to be handcuffed by Jakob's O limitations. We're not paying double for Ayton than Jakob, but you do have to give something up to get something. With where Suns are and where we are, they could use a workman C who doesn't need the ball as much whereas we can use Ayton more than he was utilized on the Suns who prioritize three guards. I can see how for them it makes less sense to max out Ayton given how they use him.

And for waiting for true FAs, well when you get a chance at RFA and it costs you some short contracts and no one from our long-term core to secure higher talent, it's hard to pass up.

I'm going on the assumption that Poeltl isn't going to get 30+ a year on a new contract. What Im saying is that we can try to improve big time in other areas instead of breaking the bank just to improve a little bit at the 5. We aren't going to be able to do that otherwise.

Honestly, how much better are we going to be with Ayton instead of Poeltl and no other changes? Instead of a fringe play in team we win a play in game then get swept in the real playoffs? We have way too many areas that need improvement than just throwing it all at one position.

Well there are still several unknowns, starting with Jakob's next contract though we know Ayton wants a max which will range from around $30M to around $35M for four years if we were to sign him. We can afford it.

You started with assuming we'd get another deal on Jakob's next deal to thinking it would be in the 18-25 range to now expecting under 30M - I should bloody well hope so!

An interesting comparison is Valanciunas who for the first six years didn't take 3s and for the last four has extended his range and is good for a couple a game at mid thirties percentage. BUT, and this is important, he's been consistently good at the FT line ranging from high seventies to low eighties percentage throughout his career. He's also averaged double doubles several times in his career (highest PPG was the last two seasons with 17, also on highest MPG -- and it also corresponds to expanding his game, after being traded for Adams who though younger plays a far more traditional style, no 3s).

Valanciunas has averaged around $15M for the last several years despite being a more lumbering C but one who also has some post moves.

Jakob's defense is near top of the league, and with a more limited O is attractive to teams that need P&R and rim protection without prioritizing a big on O, unlike Nuggets, Wolves, 76ers, Bucks, for example. When you have a quality big, even a C specifically, you adjust your game to suit theirs.

Caveat: all of the bigs on that list are quality two-way players, MVP-calibre.

Simply put, Ayton has a broader skill set that Jakob and it opens up our game.

Your other question, how much better can we get with Ayton at his max than Jakob at whatever is negotiated? Well that's also tied to the second part: "... and no other changes."

The latter part is almost certainly going to be different. Case in point: Lonnie is RFA; Wiesy's and Cacok's two-way contracts were converted to guaranteed ones; Woodard and Stewart were then signed to two-way contracts.

We're already signed Barlow to a two-way contract and I expect Hall and Days to fight for the other one, if not get a guaranteed one which puts the four mentioned players' tenure with us in question.

Here's a list of our guaranteed contracts:

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Note: every one of those players is 3&D except for Jakob. And they all love to compete. And have great character. And are coachable.

The ONE main thing with Ayton is whether his motivation and some friction with Monty is a character issue or him lashing out at the slight of being one of the few RFAs not extended by their teams, particularly stinging for a #1 selection.

So we almost certainly are going to have a different roster once the season starts. In the post-draft presser that mzfk69 posted above, Brian Wright mentioned we're trending towards multi-position high floor, high ceiling players. Also, check out the wingspans on our team! (Not listed are Barlow's 7'3", Hall's 6'10", Days' 7'1").

So that's without even using our max. But we've carefully protected that max for a reason. And using it on a player with a higher floor and higher ceiling that fits a more varied style of play, a #1 pick who is just scratching the surface of his talents at $30M is not exorbitant, especially with an upcoming new TV deal that will raise the cap.

As a contrast, there was talk of us trying to lure LaVine who is four years older and whose contract starts at $40+M and goes up. DJ's, incidentally, will be around that much in a couple of years. Meanwhile, where Ayton's will end is lower than where DJ's will start.

These contexts matter.

And I'm not even against keeping Jakob and using the cap elsewhere if that's what we deem is best. But I don't think using a max and consolidating players not part of our long-term plans (ie/Doug) in a S&T on a player whose game we can expand, one who will be a benefit in the playoffs (he won a series for the Suns) is not a waste of money.

And that's not even considering the return we may potentially get should we trade DJ... but even with him, getting Ayton who can go up against stronger bigs and stretch the floor and make FTs at the very least makes us a far better team.

[G R E Y]

https://youtu.be/AIGpzKS6V3A?t=498 (8:18)
Brian Wright has been talking about this for the second year in a row.
So i don't think Spurs values the classic bigmen so highly to pay them 30+ million a year.

Thanks for posting this video, mzfk69! I'm compiling a draft summary which includes it, but the part you highlighted rightly fits in the discussion here.

It may fit Ayton unless we identify him as a quality modern big - he can space and stretch the floor, is used in P&R, go against bigger bigs, has more of his game to expand.

It may fit Jakob whose stellar D is offset with a more antiquated O, one which we -- and other teams -- know we have to work around. He's a terrific perimeter defender actually, but he is exploitable as I think Nuggets and Bucks, if memory serves, made a point to with hack-a-Jak.

I have no problem keeping Jakob if the price of too many other players going along with him for Ayton is too high; I also have no problem with acquiring Ayton for Jakob and some players not part of our long-term plans.

The ONE MAIN caveat is something Brian Wright was clear about reiterating: character and competitiveness and coachability sweet spot has to be there. Is that Ayton? I guess we'll see soon enough.

[imagump1313]

Ok, now it all makes sense after watching Wembanyama play.

Screw it and get picks. Anyone who wants Murray or Poeltl can have them if you give us some kind of unprotected future draft picks.
HOLY CRAP!
I dont care if we win a game next year

[G R E Y]

Ok, now it all makes sense after watching Wembanyama play.

Screw it and get picks. Anyone who wants Murray or Poeltl can have them if you give us some kind of unprotected future draft picks.
HOLY CRAP!
I dont care if we win a game next year

This. So much!

I watched him play and saw an interview and I'm all but ready to leave a spot for his Spurs jersey in the rafters

I LOVE him!

Yeah if we're trading DJ it doesn't really make much sense to get a guy who is but a year younger other than distribution of the scoring load. I don't think he helps us on D, so short term we'd get potentially worse before we got better. Maybe Collins would go to a third team and we acquire picks and prospects? And yeah if we're going super young development mode, Ayton doesn't serve our purposes either. It's a risk, though, to outright go a step back for the lotto balls to fall our way.

Anyway, Victor is a generational prospect, super self-aware, balanced, nice guy oh and p.s. he plays for Tony's French team. If there were one player I'd be willing to go 'super young development mode' for, it would be him, but I understand where PATFO may be coming from if we choose another route.

Point being, I was sure we'd go the expedite growth route, put it into another gear with some younger but more talented players who could help us win more now, but I'm not so sure anymore and I'm ok either way

GO SPURS GO!!!

[G R E Y]

Well holy ****!

Read on Twitter

[kasrok]

:o Well holy ****!

Read on Twitter

I don't want Collins over Murray but not sure how I feel about this either.

If that's the case we're going full-tank, but am not enamored with Wembanyama like you guys, the saga continues...

[G R E Y]

:o Well holy ****!

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I don't want Collins over Murray but not sure how I feel about this either.

If that's the case we're going full-tank, but am not enamored with Wembanyama like you guys, the saga continues...

Collins really doesn't help our case at all. We'd be without DJ but with Collins who replaces the scoring, doesn't really help with the D and we keep spinning our wheels.

We know where we can get with DJ at the helm. Really like him but not at something starting at close to $40M per like LaVine. That's money dedicated to the best players on a contender. If we don't see DJ as that, then now is the time to get as many picks as possible because 1. 2023 draft and 2. we'd likely get less with DJ having only a year left on his current contract and 3. by the time we realistically do contend, our timeline and DJ's won't fit.

It's the tough but prudent move for us to get to the next level.

[G R E Y]

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