Knicks Free Agency Frenzy Part Deux

[thebuzzardman]

So, moving along from Methopotamia.

I'm not sure the basics of NBA trading and roster building has changed; the numbers are different.

Like, it's always the same that you need players that other teams want or don't see as bad, who are paid correctly. The "correct number" they are paid is higher now.

Why? Because the cap just went up. It will go up again in a few years.
The last CBA, which I think kind of sucks, is designed to keep young players underpaid at first, and then kind of has them jump into perhaps being overpaid?
I guess the vets and players like LeBron liked it, but the last CBA seemed to tilt heavily towards "stars" and then particularly older stars, in effect past their prime, who can REALLY get a lot of money.

Anyway, maybe the window where a team can strike effectively at a player has moved around a bit.
We know the latest trend is for the young players, forced to swallow sh*t salaries for 4 years, always opt in, and THEN ask out.
I think the league brought this on itself.

So, and in no way am I implying the Knicks are handling this well, it seems like a team NEEDS to carry some players making some coin, including some that are in effect expendable (again, they have to be decent and paid correctly) so there is proper salary to send out, along with the usual value draft picks have.

Just thinking out loud. Mostly I think it's "same as it ever was" but just trying to feel out what the slight shift might have been that we sometimes miss until it's been going on for a few years.

[dukeknicksirish]

Getting married today, so won’t have my phone on me. Doubt anything happens anyway but hope to turn it back on to see new faces on the team

Congrats. I hope your bride supports your habit.

We named our cat “Obi”. She was forced into this life style haha

[Clyde_Style]

Getting married today, so won’t have my phone on me. Doubt anything happens anyway but hope to turn it back on to see new faces on the team

Congrats. I hope your bride supports your habit.

We named our cat “Obi”. She was forced into this life style haha

An Obi cat is a good sign she’ll end up out-stanning you

[thebuzzardman]

Congrats. I hope your bride supports your habit.

We named our cat “Obi”. She was forced into this life style haha

An Obi cat is a good sign she’ll end up out-stanning you

I see this as a cat that tears ass around the house, ears down, but misses the litter box fairly often

[Clyde_Style]

We named our cat “Obi”. She was forced into this life style haha

An Obi cat is a good sign she’ll end up out-stanning you

I see this as a cat that tears ass around the house, ears down, but misses the litter box fairly often

Obi Cat in action !!!!!



Obi Cat’s elderly uncle

Spoiler:

[Knicksfan1992]

The RJ extension number will be big. Not that big but big. And we wouldn't be the only NBA team wanting to pay it.

You're betting on the personality and the work ethic more than anything. Other teams would definitely take that bet 100%

You’re going to give RJ how much money?

I'd be ok with anything from 5/120 to 5/150 but I'm higher on RJ than most.

[HarthorneWingo]

You're betting on the personality and the work ethic more than anything. Other teams would definitely take that bet 100%

You’re going to give RJ how much money?

I'd be ok with anything from 5/120 to 5/150 but I'm higher on RJ than most.

That's not unreasonable given the contracts being given though I would like to keep it at around $23-25M per.

[HarthorneWingo]

The Celtics have cap space for Fournier's contract. They're obviously going for it this coming season. Evan played well for them.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Evan rumors make me smile. The one where we tried to trade him back to Boston was funny. Need more Evan rumors.

[Catchall]

Read on Twitter

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I dont know how there are enough picks of value to satisfy everyone in this. Utah could flip the Minnesota pucks I guess but that's a hefty price tag to walk away with Ayton. I call bs

Jazz would take Ayton, Cam Johnson and half the picks from PHX
BRK would take Mitchell, Bridges and half the picks from PHX
PHX would take KD and maybe a couple role players from UTA.

Ben Simmons would need to be moved somewhere.

[Chanel Bomber]

You're betting on the personality and the work ethic more than anything. Other teams would definitely take that bet 100%

You’re going to give RJ how much money?

I'd be ok with anything from 5/120 to 5/150 but I'm higher on RJ than most.

Why so much when he hasn't demonstrated he can even be a net positive for your team? (Which isn't to say that he never will be able to in the future)

Also, and I think this is what I feel most strongly about, why take the risk now? Why not wait a year?

If he plays well this upcoming season, and he demonstrates that he's actually tangibly worthy of that type of contract, then the difference in salary from your offer won't be significant or matter that much.

But if he fails to improve and he doesn't impact winning, you can then make a more informed decision, and decide to sign him a more modest contract that better reflects his (in this scenario) lack of impact, or trade him.

Extending RJ now for this kind of money would be incredibly impatient in my opinion. I don't see the need for this level of urgency. So, why?

[Chanel Bomber]

The RJ extension number will be big. Not that big but big. And we wouldn't be the only NBA team wanting to pay it.

According to some very intelligent posters though, literally zero other teams would even give RJ 20 minutes a game.

He's going to have to eat **** on this but I suspect a pivot to avoid biting down and chewing. He can't keep getting away with this.

Are you referring to me?

[Madskillzz024]

Zion dream is officially over. 5yr 193 mill

[Oscirus]

Zion dream is officially over. 5yr 193 mill

231 mill if he hires an actual dietician

[Knicksfan1992]

You’re going to give RJ how much money?

I'd be ok with anything from 5/120 to 5/150 but I'm higher on RJ than most.

Why so much when he hasn't demonstrated he can even be a net positive for your team? (Which isn't to say that he never will be able to in the future)

Also, and I think this is what I feel most strongly about, why take the risk now? Why not wait a year?

If he plays well this upcoming season, and he demonstrates that he's actually tangibly worthy of that type of contract, then the difference in salary from your offer won't be significant or matter that much.

But if he fails to improve and he doesn't impact winning, you can then make a more informed decision, and decide to sign him a more modest contract that better reflects his (in this scenario) lack of impact, or trade him.

Extending RJ now for this kind of money would be incredibly impatient in my opinion. I don't see the need for this level of urgency. So, why?

I think that's a fair approach and I wouldn't fault the org for thinking that way. I think the reasoning would be that RJ has a lot of low hanging fruit to his game that can easily clean up his efficiency faults. If he's even a 75-80% ft shooter on his 2nd half of the season volume of free throws he's getting to league average efficiency as a big body switchable wing who rebounds and defends. That also doesn't account for the dip he had in catch and shoot 3s last year. He averages 3.1 assists per 36 as a secondary guy. If that gets to 4-5 with what I mentioned before he's going to get a max deal given his position. Wings who can playmake, score semi efficently and aren't sieves defensively get PAID. He'd almost certainly get a max especially since he's extremely young for a 4th year player and in theory has more growth left than most.

It really depends on if you're optimistic about his growth which I know you're not. But that's the case. Locking him in at less than a max a year early could be beneficial if you're betting on another mini leap

[2010]

Read on Twitter

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This is an underrated concept.

[Chanel Bomber]

I'd be ok with anything from 5/120 to 5/150 but I'm higher on RJ than most.

Why so much when he hasn't demonstrated he can even be a net positive for your team? (Which isn't to say that he never will be able to in the future)

Also, and I think this is what I feel most strongly about, why take the risk now? Why not wait a year?

If he plays well this upcoming season, and he demonstrates that he's actually tangibly worthy of that type of contract, then the difference in salary from your offer won't be significant or matter that much.

But if he fails to improve and he doesn't impact winning, you can then make a more informed decision, and decide to sign him a more modest contract that better reflects his (in this scenario) lack of impact, or trade him.

Extending RJ now for this kind of money would be incredibly impatient in my opinion. I don't see the need for this level of urgency. So, why?

I think that's a fair approach and I wouldn't fault the org for thinking that way. I think the reasoning would be that RJ has a lot of low hanging fruit to his game that can easily clean up his efficiency faults. If he's even a 75-80% ft shooter on his 2nd half of the season volume of free throws he's getting to league average efficiency as a big body switchable wing who rebounds and defends. That also doesn't account for the dip he had in catch and shoot 3s last year. He averages 3.1 assists per 36 as a secondary guy. If that gets to 4-5 with what I mentioned before he's going to get a max deal given his position. Wings who can playmake, score semi efficently and aren't sieves defensively get PAID. He'd almost certainly get a max especially since he's extremely young for a 4th year player and in theory has more growth left than most.

It really depends on if you're optimistic about his growth which I know you're not. But that's the case. Locking him in at less than a max a year early could be beneficial if you're betting on another mini leap

But it wouldn't take a mini leap but a historical leap for him to warrant that kind of money to begin with, so why make that leap of faith now in the first place?

Don't you want to see some statistical evidence that he actually contributes to winning before making that sort of investment? Because there isn't a single metric that paints him as merely a positive contributor. I mean the Cavs are making a leap of faith by investing so much money in Garland but at least he's given them tangible reasons to believe he will worth that kind of money. They are making an informed decision.

Just improving RJ's FT% by 10% (which very few players actually do - even the hardest workers like LeBron James) wouldn't result in a significant increase in scoring efficiency. It would be fairly marginal.

No defensive metric paints him as a positive defender either. This notion that RJ can defend (he's good as an isolation defender according to tracking data but he's a liability as a team defender) is purely theoretical but not supported by reality.

So you're investing near-max money on a player who at this moment in time:

- doesn't defend well
- is bottom of the league in scoring efficiency, yet who's an aggressive volume scorer who barely passes the ball (one of only 7 players with a USG of 27 or more to average 3 or fewer assists per game)
- who is THE worst volume shooter in the entire NBA at the rim and from the corners

So while I agree with you about the value of the archetype of a switchable wing who defends reasonably well, who scores semi-efficiently and who can playmake a little, he doesn't yet even fit the archetype. He might one day, most likely as a role player, but nothing suggests he's trending in that direction. He's more Dillon Brooks than Desmond Bane, if Brooks didn't play defense.

The risk of an extension far exceeds the reward. RJ will improve, but he's coming from so far behind that even significant improvement won't make him worth that kind of money in my opinion.

[thebuzzardman]

Another day, another anti RJ screed

[Madskillzz024]

Read on Twitter

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This is an underrated concept.

Rather keep Cam at this point but that's the Duke fan in me talking

[SARGO127]

Randle, Cam, 3 of the 3 protected picks, 3 unprotected Knicks picks, 2 swaps for Mitchell

Fournier and the last protected pick to ORL for Isaac since we’ll need defense

G Brunson - Rose - McBride
G Mitchell - Quickley
F Barrett - Grimes
F Isaac - Toppin
C Mitch - Hartenstein - Sims

Love Obi getting 25-30 minutes and the offense can run through him and IQ there on the second unit.