[HAYNES] Nets and Lakers actively talking Russ/Kyrie trade…

[Tor_Raps]

Hope someone else steps up to take Kyrie because Lakers getting him for the Westbrook and a future 1st would be a major rip off.

Kyrie can still help a basketball team on the court far more than Westbrook regardless of what you think of Kyrie.

Sold to the Raptors for FVV & filler of Toronto's choice. Thanks for stepping up.

Haha... you're not going from Westbrook to Fred. There is a much more fair middle ground.

A team like the Mavs need to go after him as their Brunson replacement. Thatll help the Mavs get out of some of those contracts while giving the Nets some more depth so maybe they won't have 4 PGs on the court at the same time lol.

[Kilroy]

why not trade Lebron + AD +WB for KD + Kyrie + Simmons lol

Because Klutch runs the Lakers and LeBron runs Klutch... The goal would be to add more high profile Klutch Klients, not lose them...

You all did notice all the signings we've made so far are Klutch Klients, right?

You realize his post was sarcasm, right?

You realize you didn't post it, right?

[Ruma85]

My Feeling on this is:

Lebron wants WB gone and get kyrie , damn the picks

Jeanie blames Lebron/ad for WB failure of a trade and is not willing to eat more tax money and picks to
Get rid of mistake Lebron / ad wanted. Jeanie wants to run it back (and have players figure it out ) and use cap space next year to redo team.

In return Lebron won’t sign extension and this game of chicken will continue to next summer when Lebron will leave.

Just my .02 cents

Whoever the 12-year-old Jeanie is planning on drafting in 2029 better be damn good.

Another theory is that maybe 2 1st rounds picks and Westbrook wasn't enough after all.People don't understand that Westbrook was one of the worst starting Point Guards in the NBA last season. Remember,the Rockets demanded a unprotected 1st round pick from the Lakers for John Wall,who hasn't played more than 41 games since 2017,clearly not the same player anymore, and they weren't planning to keep anyway. The Pacers also decline the trade,which would've given the Lakers Malcom Brodgon for Russell Westbrook and a unprotected 2027 1st round pick. So,unless the Lakers was willing to give up 4+ unprotected 1st round picks(which they don't have) for Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris,the trade was basically a non starter from the beginning.

You could also be right about maybe Jeanie Buss don't want to eat Tax Money/salary cap and give up more draft picks to get Kyrie/Harris. If the latter is true, then something tells that Jeanie is quite cheap. Who would they sign next season that justify needing that much cap space? Harrison Barnes? Malik Beasley? Nikola Vucevic? Will Burton? Even if they somehow got Kyrie and Harris,they would still have enough salary cap to sign those cailber of players anyway,unless she is planning to severely overpay for them.

Personally i think she wants to stick it to lebron, As a laker fan i hope she does.

[Kilroy]

What makes you think the price for KD has fallen? That the offers in the middle of July haven't met the asking price in no way means the price has fallen.

If there are multiple reports that say basically, the Nets haven't gotten the offers they expected to get for KD, or that the market for KD is smaller than expected, or that the interest in KD isn't there... The details may not be accurate, but it's pretty safe to bet the market for KD is no where near what Brooklyn thought it would be...

I think teams are past the name recognition and are looking at the actual body of work since his injury, and adjusting accordingly... If you aren't already an established team, do you want to leverage your future on KD? And if you are an established team with aging core players, do you want to leverage your future on KD?
I think more teams are answering NO to this than maybe we would have expected at the beginning of the summer...

I think you're looking at this completely wrong.

I don't even know the offers are actually bad right now. What we have heard, is the Nets want some ridiculous offers, such as KAT, 4 unprotected picks and 3-4 swaps, + some. Or another teams star, a blue chip prospect, plus every pick not tied down.

They're starting high. Unrealistically high for any player in the league, pretty much even Luka or Morant, or Giannis. Because no matter how good a player is, no matter the age, contract, etc., you cannot literally down to the letter gut your team and expect to go anywhere, or keep the superstar you're trading for happy.

Once they're a little more realistic with their demands, and once KD realizes he isn't going to dictate the exact team he wants to go to, when he has 4 full seasons remaining on his deal, the sooner a true bidding war, with actual good offers for all parties, will manifest itself.

As a Laker fan, I could see it either way, if by some miracle, we were able to land both KD and Kyrie, while keeping LeBron (presumably), maybe we'd be pretty good... But there's a lot of flaws in that roster and I have a feeling, just like for us and Brooklyn the last few years, those flaws would manifest themselves... Too many old, fragile dudes and egos...
And then we'd be left with an embarrassing failure and no assets to build with going forward...

Lol, even as a passing thought, this is so embarrassingly biased. There is no way you're getting KD and Kyrie, while keeping LeBron, at least and especially with how paltry your assets are. And then more so, to pontificate some version of how this is even a debatable move, instead of a, "Are the Nets high on meth laced heroin-crack-cocaine infused mushrooms?! No take backs!"

Even trying to contemplate what else you could get for AD league-wide, or the fact Westbrook and those 2 picks would get you almost nothing either, Idk man... Like to me, AD brings you little in the form of a rebuild package himself anymore and not much in the form of another star for star swap. He's shown himself less durable then ever, and it's not even talked about how seldom motivated he seems either, along with his outside shooting regressing to irrespectable levels.

If a deal goes down where you do get both, please bump this and call me out unmercifully and put me in my place lol.

This is a whole lot of effort to put into trying to convince me that the thing I said would be a "miracle" isn't likely to happen...

Are you the guy who, when someone says "they probably will never win the lottery," breaks out statistics and odds in an effort to prove to them, they are in fact, extremely unlikely to win the lottery? Because nobody likes that guy.

[Karate Diop]

We've gone from the Lakers not having enough assets in a two-team deal to force the Nets to make a move right now, to the Lakers magically going to get KD and Kyrie???

[vincecarter4pres]

Because Klutch runs the Lakers and LeBron runs Klutch... The goal would be to add more high profile Klutch Klients, not lose them...

You all did notice all the signings we've made so far are Klutch Klients, right?

You realize his post was sarcasm, right?

You realize you didn't post it, right?

I'm not seeing your point.

[vincecarter4pres]

If there are multiple reports that say basically, the Nets haven't gotten the offers they expected to get for KD, or that the market for KD is smaller than expected, or that the interest in KD isn't there... The details may not be accurate, but it's pretty safe to bet the market for KD is no where near what Brooklyn thought it would be...

I think teams are past the name recognition and are looking at the actual body of work since his injury, and adjusting accordingly... If you aren't already an established team, do you want to leverage your future on KD? And if you are an established team with aging core players, do you want to leverage your future on KD?
I think more teams are answering NO to this than maybe we would have expected at the beginning of the summer...

I think you're looking at this completely wrong.

I don't even know the offers are actually bad right now. What we have heard, is the Nets want some ridiculous offers, such as KAT, 4 unprotected picks and 3-4 swaps, + some. Or another teams star, a blue chip prospect, plus every pick not tied down.

They're starting high. Unrealistically high for any player in the league, pretty much even Luka or Morant, or Giannis. Because no matter how good a player is, no matter the age, contract, etc., you cannot literally down to the letter gut your team and expect to go anywhere, or keep the superstar you're trading for happy.

Once they're a little more realistic with their demands, and once KD realizes he isn't going to dictate the exact team he wants to go to, when he has 4 full seasons remaining on his deal, the sooner a true bidding war, with actual good offers for all parties, will manifest itself.

As a Laker fan, I could see it either way, if by some miracle, we were able to land both KD and Kyrie, while keeping LeBron (presumably), maybe we'd be pretty good... But there's a lot of flaws in that roster and I have a feeling, just like for us and Brooklyn the last few years, those flaws would manifest themselves... Too many old, fragile dudes and egos...
And then we'd be left with an embarrassing failure and no assets to build with going forward...

Lol, even as a passing thought, this is so embarrassingly biased. There is no way you're getting KD and Kyrie, while keeping LeBron, at least and especially with how paltry your assets are. And then more so, to pontificate some version of how this is even a debatable move, instead of a, "Are the Nets high on meth laced heroin-crack-cocaine infused mushrooms?! No take backs!"

Even trying to contemplate what else you could get for AD league-wide, or the fact Westbrook and those 2 picks would get you almost nothing either, Idk man... Like to me, AD brings you little in the form of a rebuild package himself anymore and not much in the form of another star for star swap. He's shown himself less durable then ever, and it's not even talked about how seldom motivated he seems either, along with his outside shooting regressing to irrespectable levels.

If a deal goes down where you do get both, please bump this and call me out unmercifully and put me in my place lol.

This is a whole lot of effort to put into trying to convince me that the thing I said would be a "miracle" isn't likely to happen...

Are you the guy who, when someone says "they probably will never win the lottery," breaks out statistics and odds in an effort to prove to them, they are in fact, extremely unlikely to win the lottery? Because nobody likes that guy.

You've now in multiple posts mentioned how the Lakers might get KD and Kyrie while retaining LeBron. Not much context needed here, it's crazy talk. And then you've made it out to be a debatable move for the Lakers. I'm just sayin'...

[vincecarter4pres]

We've gone from the Lakers not having enough assets in a two-team deal to force the Nets to make a move right now, to the Lakers magically going to get KD and Kyrie???

What a time to be alive!

[Jersey Generals]

Because Klutch runs the Lakers and LeBron runs Klutch... The goal would be to add more high profile Klutch Klients, not lose them...

You all did notice all the signings we've made so far are Klutch Klients, right?

You realize his post was sarcasm, right?

You realize you didn't post it, right?

That's the wonder of sarcasm. Some see it, some don't, but the beauty is...you don't need to have written it to understand sarcasm.

[infinite11285]

Whoever the 12-year-old Jeanie is planning on drafting in 2029 better be damn good.

Another theory is that maybe 2 1st rounds picks and Westbrook wasn't enough after all.People don't understand that Westbrook was one of the worst starting Point Guards in the NBA last season. Remember,the Rockets demanded a unprotected 1st round pick from the Lakers for John Wall,who hasn't played more than 41 games since 2017,clearly not the same player anymore, and they weren't planning to keep anyway. The Pacers also decline the trade,which would've given the Lakers Malcom Brodgon for Russell Westbrook and a unprotected 2027 1st round pick. So,unless the Lakers was willing to give up 4+ unprotected 1st round picks(which they don't have) for Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris,the trade was basically a non starter from the beginning.

You could also be right about maybe Jeanie Buss don't want to eat Tax Money/salary cap and give up more draft picks to get Kyrie/Harris. If the latter is true, then something tells that Jeanie is quite cheap. Who would they sign next season that justify needing that much cap space? Harrison Barnes? Malik Beasley? Nikola Vucevic? Will Burton? Even if they somehow got Kyrie and Harris,they would still have enough salary cap to sign those cailber of players anyway,unless she is planning to severely overpay for them.

Personally i think she wants to stick it to lebron, As a laker fan i hope she does.

Sticking it to LeBron and to her own organization by extension? She should immediately resign if that's the case.

She would be better off facilitating a trade to get LeBron out of LA, which she is 100% capable of.

[Pharmcat]

My Feeling on this is:

Lebron wants WB gone and get kyrie , damn the picks

Jeanie blames Lebron/ad for WB failure of a trade and is not willing to eat more tax money and picks to
Get rid of mistake Lebron / ad wanted. Jeanie wants to run it back (and have players figure it out ) and use cap space next year to redo team.

In return Lebron won’t sign extension and this game of chicken will continue to next summer when Lebron will leave.

Just my .02 cents

Whoever the 12-year-old Jeanie is planning on drafting in 2029 better be damn good.

I think egos are involved and she wants to stick it into Lebron. Don’t forget she gets advice for Phil and we all know how he feels about lebron

[Ruma85]

Another theory is that maybe 2 1st rounds picks and Westbrook wasn't enough after all.People don't understand that Westbrook was one of the worst starting Point Guards in the NBA last season. Remember,the Rockets demanded a unprotected 1st round pick from the Lakers for John Wall,who hasn't played more than 41 games since 2017,clearly not the same player anymore, and they weren't planning to keep anyway. The Pacers also decline the trade,which would've given the Lakers Malcom Brodgon for Russell Westbrook and a unprotected 2027 1st round pick. So,unless the Lakers was willing to give up 4+ unprotected 1st round picks(which they don't have) for Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris,the trade was basically a non starter from the beginning.

You could also be right about maybe Jeanie Buss don't want to eat Tax Money/salary cap and give up more draft picks to get Kyrie/Harris. If the latter is true, then something tells that Jeanie is quite cheap. Who would they sign next season that justify needing that much cap space? Harrison Barnes? Malik Beasley? Nikola Vucevic? Will Burton? Even if they somehow got Kyrie and Harris,they would still have enough salary cap to sign those cailber of players anyway,unless she is planning to severely overpay for them.

Personally i think she wants to stick it to lebron, As a laker fan i hope she does.

Sticking it to LeBron and to her own organization by extension? She should immediately resign if that's the case.

She would be better off facilitating a trade to get LeBron out of LA, which she is 100% capable of.

I mean by not trading for kyrie.

[Kilroy]

You realize his post was sarcasm, right?

You realize you didn't post it, right?

That's the wonder of sarcasm. Some see it, some don't, but the beauty is...you don't need to have written it to understand sarcasm.

Perhapse, but you could be wrong... Nothing more embarrassing than assuming someone is being sarcastic, when they aren't.
Like when everyone assumes that since I'm a Laker fan, I must be a LeBron super fan...

[mademan]

Me too. And if I'm Sean Marks, I don't hesitate to roll that dice.

What's going to happen if Durant doesn't get traded? He either throws a temper tantrum like Ben Simmons and holds out, he shows up looking like a balloon like James Harden (though I'm not sure this is even possible with his body type) and gives minimal effort, he fakes an injury like Anthony Davis so he can sit out and still get paid, or he plays.

Is a player so obsessed with basketball like Kevin Durant going to squander one of the last remaining years of his prime? I don't see it. And if he does play, there is still a chance he realizes that he has a pretty good roster around him and retracts his demand.

So to me, the reward of either getting a much better offer closer to or at the start of the season or having Durant simply change his mind (even if that possibility is remote) is far, far greater than the risk of offers worsening or him getting injured, dogging it, or sitting out.

injured, dogging it or sitting out arent the options tho. Durant went there as a FA. He was an extremely valuable FA that 30 teams in the league would re-arrange their entire cap sheets to be able to sign. There is no doubt, imo, that the conversation regarding him wanting to theoretically leave would be brought up, and the response would be an amicable resolution. This was the same thing with Paul George in OKC.

Ya, KD can change his mind (doubt it, but anythings possible). But ill be surprised as hell if he's not moved before next season if he's adamant that he wants to be moved.

[akula1488]

I think it is only fair for superstars to have this kind of handshake agreement when they sign as FA; remember the maximum salary work against superstars as their true market value will be a lot higher than the maximum if there is cap. A prime Lebron or KD surely deserve at least 60 to 80 million a year for example. Just look at Lebron he could take average players to the finals (although in a weak Eastern conference) with the second best player on his team being Mo Williams, Drew Gooden or Big Z (2007 NBA finals)…..

Me too. And if I'm Sean Marks, I don't hesitate to roll that dice.

What's going to happen if Durant doesn't get traded? He either throws a temper tantrum like Ben Simmons and holds out, he shows up looking like a balloon like James Harden (though I'm not sure this is even possible with his body type) and gives minimal effort, he fakes an injury like Anthony Davis so he can sit out and still get paid, or he plays.

Is a player so obsessed with basketball like Kevin Durant going to squander one of the last remaining years of his prime? I don't see it. And if he does play, there is still a chance he realizes that he has a pretty good roster around him and retracts his demand.

So to me, the reward of either getting a much better offer closer to or at the start of the season or having Durant simply change his mind (even if that possibility is remote) is far, far greater than the risk of offers worsening or him getting injured, dogging it, or sitting out.

injured, dogging it or sitting out arent the options tho. Durant went there as a FA. He was an extremely valuable FA that 30 teams in the league would re-arrange their entire cap sheets to be able to sign. There is no doubt, imo, that the conversation regarding him wanting to theoretically leave would be brought up, and the response would be an amicable resolution. This was the same thing with Paul George in OKC.

Ya, KD can change his mind (doubt it, but anythings possible). But ill be surprised as hell if he's not moved before next season if he's adamant that he wants to be moved.

[NyKnicks1714]

My Feeling on this is:

Lebron wants WB gone and get kyrie , damn the picks

Jeanie blames Lebron/ad for WB failure of a trade and is not willing to eat more tax money and picks to
Get rid of mistake Lebron / ad wanted. Jeanie wants to run it back (and have players figure it out ) and use cap space next year to redo team.

In return Lebron won’t sign extension and this game of chicken will continue to next summer when Lebron will leave.

Just my .02 cents

I don't agree with the bold; it's all about the money, and any reasoning she may have for why she doesn't want to spend it (if that's what's happening)is a bs excuse. Trading Westbrook for Irving and Harris would cost over $30 million this season. A year ago she passed on retaining Caruso, which would have cost 0 assets, because the total bill would have been a similar amount of money.

[Kingdibs19]

63 pages re a Haynes rumour. Not WOJ, not SHAMS, but we’re talking about Haynes! 63 pages wow.

[Pharmcat]

Another theory is that maybe 2 1st rounds picks and Westbrook wasn't enough after all.People don't understand that Westbrook was one of the worst starting Point Guards in the NBA last season. Remember,the Rockets demanded a unprotected 1st round pick from the Lakers for John Wall,who hasn't played more than 41 games since 2017,clearly not the same player anymore, and they weren't planning to keep anyway. The Pacers also decline the trade,which would've given the Lakers Malcom Brodgon for Russell Westbrook and a unprotected 2027 1st round pick. So,unless the Lakers was willing to give up 4+ unprotected 1st round picks(which they don't have) for Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris,the trade was basically a non starter from the beginning.

You could also be right about maybe Jeanie Buss don't want to eat Tax Money/salary cap and give up more draft picks to get Kyrie/Harris. If the latter is true, then something tells that Jeanie is quite cheap. Who would they sign next season that justify needing that much cap space? Harrison Barnes? Malik Beasley? Nikola Vucevic? Will Burton? Even if they somehow got Kyrie and Harris,they would still have enough salary cap to sign those cailber of players anyway,unless she is planning to severely overpay for them.

Personally i think she wants to stick it to lebron, As a laker fan i hope she does.

Sticking it to LeBron and to her own organization by extension? She should immediately resign if that's the case.

She would be better off facilitating a trade to get LeBron out of LA, which she is 100% capable of.

Pop took a worse deal for KL because he didn’t want him on LAL…egos are a real thing

[Karmaloop]

Where are they getting significant cap relief?

Westbrook is owed 10 million more then Kyrie.

I don't think Nets fans are under any disillusionment as to the market for Kyrie, how trades work, or how bad Russ' contract is. That doesn't change the fact, without getting both picks themselves, there's little point to dealing him.

A TPE and some 2nd's, some d-rate scrub, etc., does nothing for Brooklyn. One pick, with the other going to a 2nd team does little. Eating Russ' contract directly and having to add a good played like Joe Harris, also not ideal.

My guess is BK will hold out for a team like Charlotte, who wants to dump a 2 year contract of Hayward for an expiring, and might even add assets to do it. Something like Hayward and Oubre for Westbrook, a couple 2nd's, or a protected 1st to do so, maybe even just a way in the future pick swap option. Or they don't have to add any value and opportunistically are able to dump Gordon for free.

If not, they'll hold Kyrie until a deal on the cheap opens up with another team halfway through the season. Dallas gets desperate, or KD had already been dealt and Miami decides to send Lowry and a 1st, Lowry to a 3rd West coast playoff team for a different expiring and an additional 1st, etc.

I was talking about in the hypothetical LA/SAS/BKN trade where Westbrook was dealt to the Spurs, and the Nets didn't take back any salary. That'd create a massive TPE for the Nets to utilize. You can keep hoping that someone else steps up to the plate with an Irving offer.

[Edrees]

Another theory is that maybe 2 1st rounds picks and Westbrook wasn't enough after all.People don't understand that Westbrook was one of the worst starting Point Guards in the NBA last season. Remember,the Rockets demanded a unprotected 1st round pick from the Lakers for John Wall,who hasn't played more than 41 games since 2017,clearly not the same player anymore, and they weren't planning to keep anyway. The Pacers also decline the trade,which would've given the Lakers Malcom Brodgon for Russell Westbrook and a unprotected 2027 1st round pick. So,unless the Lakers was willing to give up 4+ unprotected 1st round picks(which they don't have) for Kyrie Irving and Joe Harris,the trade was basically a non starter from the beginning.

You could also be right about maybe Jeanie Buss don't want to eat Tax Money/salary cap and give up more draft picks to get Kyrie/Harris. If the latter is true, then something tells that Jeanie is quite cheap. Who would they sign next season that justify needing that much cap space? Harrison Barnes? Malik Beasley? Nikola Vucevic? Will Burton? Even if they somehow got Kyrie and Harris,they would still have enough salary cap to sign those cailber of players anyway,unless she is planning to severely overpay for them.

Personally i think she wants to stick it to lebron, As a laker fan i hope she does.

Sticking it to LeBron and to her own organization by extension? She should immediately resign if that's the case.

She would be better off facilitating a trade to get LeBron out of LA, which she is 100% capable of.

The scenario of sticking it to Lebron would involve getting talent back, talent that won't retire from the league in 2 years.