Offseason Thread VOL 5 - I WILL BRING LIGHT

[heatwillbeback]

If Barett isnt there, we have a chance with Herro. I still think its unlikely due to the emphasis placed on future draft picks these days.

If it becomes a pick fest, NY wins.

[greg4012]

It’s worth noting NYC media sources covering the Knicks are probably the most tabloid-esque of any NBA media market.

Sh*t will be thrown at every wall to see what sticks and generate clicks and views all along the way.

[DayofMourning]

It’s worth noting NYC media sources covering the Knicks are probably the most tabloid-esque of any NBA media market.

Sh*t will be thrown at every wall to see what sticks and generate clicks and views all along the way.

Yep. They're advertised as being linked to every guy on the market by their media.

[AirP.]

Welp there goes all that momentum and any chance that any deal gets done soon lol.

???

Windhorst saying a deal is far from being done. He's been on the money with Brooklyn and Utah this offseason. For him to report on behalf of Nets that they are nowhere close on the deal and that they are regrouping likely means a deal is not close. Even if it's a leverage tactic, going public like that definitely points away from a deal that's close to the finish line.

It's all probably just leverage. Here's the timeline I see with my opinion of it.

Part 1 (Utah using the media)
Miami gives Utah an offer.
Utah doesn't accept the offer, says it's not strong enough.
Utah's stance, we're going to build around Mitchell unless an offer blows us away.

Part 2 (KD asks out, situations change)
KD asks out and lists Miami one of the two teams he wants to go to.
Miami now has another whale to go after.
Utah is now under more pressure, Utah now know they aren't only game in town for Miami and could lose them as a suiter for Mitchell or at least see the potential package from Miami being weaker.

Part 3 (Miami using the media)
Miami is seen in public talking with Brooklyn.
Miami leaks to the media that they're the most aggressive team going after KD.
Utah then floats out to the media that they're now more open to move Mitchell then a week ago.
Brooklyn is now under more pressure, Brooklyn understands Utah "may" take less to move Mitchell to Miami which would take Miami out of the KD race or at least dramatically drop the overall package offered.

Part 4 (Brooklyn using the media)
Brooklyn puts out in the media that nothing is close with KD which tells Utah they have time basically nullifying the work Miami has done to try to pressure Utah into a lesser package which also hurts Brooklyn.

[IceColdCubano]

???

Windhorst saying a deal is far from being done. He's been on the money with Brooklyn and Utah this offseason. For him to report on behalf of Nets that they are nowhere close on the deal and that they are regrouping likely means a deal is not close. Even if it's a leverage tactic, going public like that definitely points away from a deal that's close to the finish line.

It's all probably just leverage. Here's the timeline I see with my opinion of it.

Part 1 (Utah using the media)
Miami gives Utah an offer.
Utah doesn't accept the offer, says it's not strong enough.
Utah's stance, we're going to build around Mitchell unless an offer blows us away.

Part 2 (KD asks out, situations change)
KD asks out and lists Miami one of the two teams he wants to go to.
Miami now has another whale to go after.
Utah is now under more pressure, Utah now know they aren't only game in town for Miami and could lose them as a suiter for Mitchell or at least see the potential package from Miami being weaker.

Part 3 (Miami using the media)
Miami is seen in public talking with Brooklyn.
Miami leaks to the media that they're the most aggressive team going after KD.
Utah then floats out to the media that they're now more open to move Mitchell then a week ago.
Brooklyn is now under more pressure, Brooklyn understands Utah "may" take less to move Mitchell to Miami which would take Miami out of the KD race or at least dramatically drop the overall package offered.

Part 4 (Brooklyn using the media)
Brooklyn puts out in the media that nothing is close with KD which tells Utah they have time basically nullifying the work Miami has done to try to pressure Utah into a lesser package which also hurts Brooklyn.

My though process with every tweet I read is this: 50%-75% of them are BS of information thrown on the wall hoping it sticks and they can go back and say they were right. The remaining 25% that are true in the sense that their fed from Players Agents, Team Execs, Or close Family ties/partnerships are usually agenda driven, meaning they serve a purpose that sometimes is more about the sum of its parts to reach an end goal outside of the original information.

We got to remember its very rare you have in an offseason 2 superstar caliber level players available on the market to the highest bidder, whom are both under contracts and not in total control of their destination even if so by a small degree.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If not RJ then Herro Jovic 3 firsts and 2 swaps outbids the Knicks wanting to send all their picks imo. Maybe move Gabe or Yurt for another 1st to add. At some point Utah is going to want a solid young player that’s showed promise but needs development over just getting picks. If you trade Mitchell and Gobert you got to at least get 1 player for the future out of that. Helps that Ainge loves Herro.

All that being said; fuxk all that if we can get KD/Jimmy/Bam together.

[DayofMourning]

Who does NY have at the 2 guard? Let them be the pick supplier to whomever.

[goodboy]

nets so pissy

just go with Mitch

[IceColdCubano]

If not RJ then Herro Jovic 3 firsts and 2 swaps outbids the Knicks wanting to send all their picks imo. Maybe move Gabe or Yurt for another 1st to add. At some point Utah is going to want a solid young player that’s showed promise but needs development over just getting picks. If you trade Mitchell and Gobert you got to at least get 1 player for the future out of that. Helps that Ainge loves Herro.

All that being said; fuxk all that if we can get KD/Jimmy/Bam together.

With Jovic I don't believe we can include him until a certain date since he was officially signed.

[oreon]

What’s the appeal with Mitchell again? Genuinely curious.

Proven playoff scorer (28ppg in playoffs for his career)

But his impact is overinflated because for some reason he can't guard a traffic cone. As much as we crap on Gobert, he covered a lot Mitchell shortcomings on that end. I still think Miami should go after him but I don't think he's worth what it would take to get him. He's not a top 15 player and thats why Ainge doesn't mind moving him.

[IceColdCubano]

What’s the appeal with Mitchell again? Genuinely curious.

Proven playoff scorer (28ppg in playoffs for his career)

But his impact is overinflated because for some reason he can't guard a traffic cone. As much as we crap on Gobert, he covered a lot Mitchell shortcomings on that end. I still think Miami should go after him but I don't think he's worth what it would take to get him. He's not a top 15 player and thats why Ainge doesn't mind moving him.

It doesn't help him that Utah's Defensive scheme's was literally to funnel the defender to Gobert on every play. I think this is overinflating his liability a bit which is perceived worse than actual. He also has great wingspan, standing reach, vert, and large hands for a guard which is great for having a defenders body type. He was gauged for having really good defense coming out of college.

[Flash4thewin]

I don't get this so called Ainge loves Herro bit. That's like teams "loved" Lowry before they saw his performance in the playoffs. That's past tense not something based on the here and now.

Just using logic, the Nets bring it back for one more season. The offers are not up to par, they get more value waiting, Kyrie rehabilitates his value, Simmons rehabilitates his value and KG gets a legit shot at making a deep playoff run. Come trading deadline or the offseason, teams panic. They always do and over pay. No logical sense to sell low now. Heck even Kyrie is back tracking that he demanded a "trade"

Utah will feature Donavan even more on offense to inflate his value and some team will pay the asking price. For us we need Herro to be playing lights out as a starter, not fighting for that position. Make Herro look better, honestly who cares about the regular season, 1 seed 8th seed as long as we are healthy come playoffs time, that's all that matters.

We need to get a real PF asap. That will cost us assets from the limited assets we have. Or we risk pissing off our star player who is not a patient man and has forced his way out of multiple teams.

[MartyCONLONNN]

Windhorst saying a deal is far from being done. He's been on the money with Brooklyn and Utah this offseason. For him to report on behalf of Nets that they are nowhere close on the deal and that they are regrouping likely means a deal is not close. Even if it's a leverage tactic, going public like that definitely points away from a deal that's close to the finish line.

It's all probably just leverage. Here's the timeline I see with my opinion of it.

Part 1 (Utah using the media)
Miami gives Utah an offer.
Utah doesn't accept the offer, says it's not strong enough.
Utah's stance, we're going to build around Mitchell unless an offer blows us away.

Part 2 (KD asks out, situations change)
KD asks out and lists Miami one of the two teams he wants to go to.
Miami now has another whale to go after.
Utah is now under more pressure, Utah now know they aren't only game in town for Miami and could lose them as a suiter for Mitchell or at least see the potential package from Miami being weaker.

Part 3 (Miami using the media)
Miami is seen in public talking with Brooklyn.
Miami leaks to the media that they're the most aggressive team going after KD.
Utah then floats out to the media that they're now more open to move Mitchell then a week ago.
Brooklyn is now under more pressure, Brooklyn understands Utah "may" take less to move Mitchell to Miami which would take Miami out of the KD race or at least dramatically drop the overall package offered.

Part 4 (Brooklyn using the media)
Brooklyn puts out in the media that nothing is close with KD which tells Utah they have time basically nullifying the work Miami has done to try to pressure Utah into a lesser package which also hurts Brooklyn.

My though process with every tweet I read is this: 50%-75% of them are BS of information thrown on the wall hoping it sticks and they can go back and say they were right. The remaining 25% that are true in the sense that their fed from Players Agents, Team Execs, Or close Family ties/partnerships are usually agenda driven, meaning they serve a purpose that sometimes is more about the sum of its parts to reach an end goal outside of the original information.

We got to remember its very rare you have in an offseason 2 superstar caliber level players available on the market to the highest bidder, whom are both under contracts and not in total control of their destination even if so by a small degree.

ICC, you are saying that nothing has changed since last night and that a deal is near finish line? That was the implication last night and this morning.

I'm not saying that Windhorst id a full proof reporter AT ALL lol, but he was the 1 to say that the BKN thing wasn't over when every1 else was reporting they're running it back and ESPN was doing segments hyping them up. He was also all over Utah's BS. Gotta give him credit for being on the money this offseason. Rare work for him.

[greg4012]

What’s the appeal with Mitchell again? Genuinely curious.

Proven playoff scorer (28ppg in playoffs for his career)

But his impact is overinflated because for some reason he can't guard a traffic cone. As much as we crap on Gobert, he covered a lot Mitchell shortcomings on that end. I still think Miami should go after him but I don't think he's worth what it would take to get him. He's not a top 15 player and thats why Ainge doesn't mind moving him.

Mitchell actually came into the NBA as a plus defender for a rookie. In college and as a prospect he was lauded as a great defender. He was able to shift to solely offense focused in Utah. I’m confident Miami would be able to get a lot more out of him on defense than Utah has.

Tools are there for a solid defender with his long wingspan, stout frame and explosive athleticism. For reference, he basically has identical physical measurements as Marcus Smart and is more explosive

[greg4012]

It's all probably just leverage. Here's the timeline I see with my opinion of it.

Part 1 (Utah using the media)
Miami gives Utah an offer.
Utah doesn't accept the offer, says it's not strong enough.
Utah's stance, we're going to build around Mitchell unless an offer blows us away.

Part 2 (KD asks out, situations change)
KD asks out and lists Miami one of the two teams he wants to go to.
Miami now has another whale to go after.
Utah is now under more pressure, Utah now know they aren't only game in town for Miami and could lose them as a suiter for Mitchell or at least see the potential package from Miami being weaker.

Part 3 (Miami using the media)
Miami is seen in public talking with Brooklyn.
Miami leaks to the media that they're the most aggressive team going after KD.
Utah then floats out to the media that they're now more open to move Mitchell then a week ago.
Brooklyn is now under more pressure, Brooklyn understands Utah "may" take less to move Mitchell to Miami which would take Miami out of the KD race or at least dramatically drop the overall package offered.

Part 4 (Brooklyn using the media)
Brooklyn puts out in the media that nothing is close with KD which tells Utah they have time basically nullifying the work Miami has done to try to pressure Utah into a lesser package which also hurts Brooklyn.

My though process with every tweet I read is this: 50%-75% of them are BS of information thrown on the wall hoping it sticks and they can go back and say they were right. The remaining 25% that are true in the sense that their fed from Players Agents, Team Execs, Or close Family ties/partnerships are usually agenda driven, meaning they serve a purpose that sometimes is more about the sum of its parts to reach an end goal outside of the original information.

We got to remember its very rare you have in an offseason 2 superstar caliber level players available on the market to the highest bidder, whom are both under contracts and not in total control of their destination even if so by a small degree.

ICC, you are saying that nothing has changed since last night and that a deal is near finish line? That was the implication last night and this morning.

I'm not saying that Windhorst id a full proof reporter AT ALL lol, but he was the 1 to say that the BKN thing wasn't over when every1 else was reporting they're running it back and ESPN was doing segments hyping them up. He was also all over Utah's BS. Gotta give him credit for being on the money this offseason. Rare work for him.

There was also a handful on this board calling that the BKN thing wasn’t over when everyone else was speculating with BS reporting about BKN running it back (before Windy)

[IceColdCubano]

I don't get this so called Ainge loves Herro bit. That's like teams "loved" Lowry before they saw his performance in the playoffs. That's past tense not something based on the here and now.

Just using logic, the Nets bring it back for one more season. The offers are not up to par, they get more value waiting, Kyrie rehabilitates his value, Simmons rehabilitates his value and KG gets a legit shot at making a deep playoff run. Come trading deadline or the offseason, teams panic. They always do and over pay. No logical sense to sell low now. Heck even Kyrie is back tracking that he demanded a "trade"

Utah will feature Donavan even more on offense to inflate his value and some team will pay the asking price. For us we need Herro to be playing lights out as a starter, not fighting for that position. Make Herro look better, honestly who cares about the regular season, 1 seed 8th seed as long as we are healthy come playoffs time, that's all that matters.

We need to get a real PF asap. That will cost us assets from the limited assets we have. Or we risk pissing off our star player who is not a patient man and has forced his way out of multiple teams.

To be fair with Kyrie I think Brooklyn told him nobody wants you outside of Lebron, because even the team is unwilling to part with a single draft pick for you, Additionally Brooklyn wants nothing to do with that albatross of a westbrick. He problably talked to his agent and they were dude tell them your gonna stay and run it back, earn the trust of the team, next year your a free agent and go from there.

[greg4012]

I don't get this so called Ainge loves Herro bit. That's like teams "loved" Lowry before they saw his performance in the playoffs. That's past tense not something based on the here and now.

Just using logic, the Nets bring it back for one more season. The offers are not up to par, they get more value waiting, Kyrie rehabilitates his value, Simmons rehabilitates his value and KG gets a legit shot at making a deep playoff run. Come trading deadline or the offseason, teams panic. They always do and over pay. No logical sense to sell low now. Heck even Kyrie is back tracking that he demanded a "trade"

Utah will feature Donavan even more on offense to inflate his value and some team will pay the asking price. For us we need Herro to be playing lights out as a starter, not fighting for that position. Make Herro look better, honestly who cares about the regular season, 1 seed 8th seed as long as we are healthy come playoffs time, that's all that matters.

We need to get a real PF asap. That will cost us assets from the limited assets we have. Or we risk pissing off our star player who is not a patient man and has forced his way out of multiple teams.

Bro… Lowry literally tore his hamstring at the start of playoffs. He was scorching hot from 3 in the weeks leading up to playoffs. He was clearly gearing up.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think you’re gravely underestimating Durant’s willingness to exercise his leverage and force the issue. There is absolutely a degree of handshake understanding between BKN and Durant to get him somewhere he’s willing to be.

[AirP.]

I don't get this so called Ainge loves Herro bit. That's like teams "loved" Lowry before they saw his performance in the playoffs. That's past tense not something based on the here and now.

Just using logic, the Nets bring it back for one more season. The offers are not up to par, they get more value waiting, Kyrie rehabilitates his value, Simmons rehabilitates his value and KG gets a legit shot at making a deep playoff run. Come trading deadline or the offseason, teams panic. They always do and over pay. No logical sense to sell low now. Heck even Kyrie is back tracking that he demanded a "trade"

Utah will feature Donavan even more on offense to inflate his value and some team will pay the asking price. For us we need Herro to be playing lights out as a starter, not fighting for that position. Make Herro look better, honestly who cares about the regular season, 1 seed 8th seed as long as we are healthy come playoffs time, that's all that matters.

We need to get a real PF asap. That will cost us assets from the limited assets we have. Or we risk pissing off our star player who is not a patient man and has forced his way out of multiple teams.

Utah is rebuilding, they can cash out on Mitchell, bring Herro in and be ok waiting another 2-3 years to develop more while being paid a ton, NBA teams have to use up 90% of their cap or anything below that gets divided up and handed out to the players on the roster, the owner can't pocket that money so why wouldn't Utah use part of it's cap to try to develop a player. I expect Utah will also use part of it's cap to do what OKC has done, take in bad contracts with draft picks attached to them.

On the Nets, they just got swept in the playoffs without Simmons, maybe they cash out on KD and Kyrie before there's more decline which would net less assets for them in trades. It didn't work and all it cost them was cap space... where Brooklyn really screwed up was giving in to trading for Harden, that cost them way more then it was worth.

On a PF, the contingency plan is already put in place that can happen before the playoffs, Dedmon was overpaid to use as salary filler to get what they need during this season or next offseason(if they have the starting PF filled somehow, hopefully not by Martin).

[oreon]

Proven playoff scorer (28ppg in playoffs for his career)

But his impact is overinflated because for some reason he can't guard a traffic cone. As much as we crap on Gobert, he covered a lot Mitchell shortcomings on that end. I still think Miami should go after him but I don't think he's worth what it would take to get him. He's not a top 15 player and thats why Ainge doesn't mind moving him.

It doesn't help him that Utah's Defensive scheme's was literally to funnel the defender to Gobert on every play. I think this is overinflating his liability a bit which is perceived worse than actual. He also has great wingspan, standing reach, vert, and large hands for a guard which is great for having a defenders body type. He was gauged for having really good defense coming out of college.

That's the point of a drop defense to funnel the dribbler to the rim. But drop only works if your POA defense is solid. You need your guards to not get beat on the initial dribble and to fight through screens. If they are getting beat easily with time on the clock, that forces the center who supposed to stay close to the rim to rotate, leaving someone wide open.
You can have still have a great defense playing drop, Bucks do, but you need your guards not to offer some defensive resistance. Mitchell was not, he was getting beat one on one. That's on him and no one else. He has the speed and lateral movement to be at min an average defender and probably should be a plus defender. But for some reason he doesn't care for defense and only getting buckets. And in Utah he never got held accountable for that. But maybe in Miami with Spo and Jimmy, he would and that would force him to play better defense

[AirP.]

It's better to say you're willing to stay vs everyone knowing nobody wants you.

Read on Twitter

HA HA HAH AHAHAHAHA

Watch on YouTube