Poll: would you trade JB for KD?

[Slax]

Auerbach never traded core pieces they way DA did and apparently Stevens is considering.

Ainge wanted Auerbach to trade Bird and McHale but he didn't: https://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7478868/report-danny-ainge-willing-break-boston-celtics-big-three

Who cares

Real Celtic fans care. There is a generational difference. Slax's post is just wrong. Auerbach valued players and people and built his core and then supplemented it. He didn't trade Bird because that would have been a **** thing to do (just like trading IT was a **** thing to do and trading Brown would be a **** thing to do). He didn't treat people like commodities and act like a hedge fund manager and move whomever whenever in order to maximize perceived value.

This used to be a team. Now its just another soulless business. If you don't understand why that is upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I would not want to live such a disenchanted life with no meaning or values (beyond utility maximization).

Maybe you can explain that to Gerald Henderson, Cedric Maxwell, Rick Robey, Bob McAdoo, Danny Ainge, and the dozens of other players who were Red's trade fodder back in the day. This attribution of undying loyalty to his players is such a weird romanticization of a guy who is known and lauded for being a wheeler and dealer.

[zoyathedestroya]

Auerbach never traded core pieces they way DA did and apparently Stevens is considering.

Ainge wanted Auerbach to trade Bird and McHale but he didn't: https://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7478868/report-danny-ainge-willing-break-boston-celtics-big-three

Who cares

Real Celtic fans care. There is a generational difference. Slax's post is just wrong. Auerbach valued players and people and built his core and then supplemented it. He didn't trade Bird because that would have been a **** thing to do (just like trading IT was a **** thing to do and trading Brown would be a **** thing to do). He didn't treat people like commodities and act like a hedge fund manager and move whomever whenever in order to maximize perceived value.

This used to be a team. Now its just another soulless business. If you don't understand why that is upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I would not want to live such a disenchanted life with no meaning or values (beyond utility maximization).

Very hypocritical to say not to treat people like commodities, reference trading IT for Kyrie when IT was acquired via trade (using players who are people too.) So I guess the franchise should only value the player as a person if they are stars?

[OBisHalJordan]

Who cares

Real Celtic fans care. There is a generational difference. Slax's post is just wrong. Auerbach valued players and people and built his core and then supplemented it. He didn't trade Bird because that would have been a **** thing to do (just like trading IT was a **** thing to do and trading Brown would be a **** thing to do). He didn't treat people like commodities and act like a hedge fund manager and move whomever whenever in order to maximize perceived value.

This used to be a team. Now its just another soulless business. If you don't understand why that is upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I would not want to live such a disenchanted life with no meaning or values (beyond utility maximization).

Maybe you can explain that to Gerald Henderson, Cedric Maxwell, Rick Robey, Bob McAdoo, Danny Ainge, and the dozens of other players who were Red's trade fodder back in the day. This attribution of undying loyalty to his players is such a weird romanticization of a guy who is known and lauded for being a wheeler and dealer.

Of those only Maxwell is core piece. The rest were role players so all you've shown is the one exception to the rule. Thanks for proving my point.

[OBisHalJordan]

Who cares

Real Celtic fans care. There is a generational difference. Slax's post is just wrong. Auerbach valued players and people and built his core and then supplemented it. He didn't trade Bird because that would have been a **** thing to do (just like trading IT was a **** thing to do and trading Brown would be a **** thing to do). He didn't treat people like commodities and act like a hedge fund manager and move whomever whenever in order to maximize perceived value.

This used to be a team. Now its just another soulless business. If you don't understand why that is upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I would not want to live such a disenchanted life with no meaning or values (beyond utility maximization).

Very hypocritical to say not to treat people like commodities, reference trading IT for Kyrie when IT was acquired via trade (using players who are people too.) So I guess the franchise should only value the player as a person if they are stars?

Its not hypocritical to set a limits on conduct or if you accept a behavior you have to accept its most extreme manifestation? Is hypocritical to have labor standards? Or are you locked into a position that if you accept that people have to work for money, then whatever the employer says goes? Child labor and unsafe working conditions are ok because the boss gets offer a job on their terms? That's just the way it is!

To the point, there are rebuilding periods and then there are period of contending. When you have a contending core, I think the management should respect the efforts and chemistry of those players and let it run its course by only making small to medium moves to supplement the core.

[BK_2020]

Yes, dignity and humanity don't count unless you are a part of a contending core. You heard it here first.

[Slax]

Real Celtic fans care. There is a generational difference. Slax's post is just wrong. Auerbach valued players and people and built his core and then supplemented it. He didn't trade Bird because that would have been a **** thing to do (just like trading IT was a **** thing to do and trading Brown would be a **** thing to do). He didn't treat people like commodities and act like a hedge fund manager and move whomever whenever in order to maximize perceived value.

This used to be a team. Now its just another soulless business. If you don't understand why that is upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I would not want to live such a disenchanted life with no meaning or values (beyond utility maximization).

Maybe you can explain that to Gerald Henderson, Cedric Maxwell, Rick Robey, Bob McAdoo, Danny Ainge, and the dozens of other players who were Red's trade fodder back in the day. This attribution of undying loyalty to his players is such a weird romanticization of a guy who is known and lauded for being a wheeler and dealer.

Of those only Maxwell is core piece. The rest were role players so all you've shown is the one exception to the rule. Thanks for proving my point.

Danny Ainge has been to exactly as many all star games as Jaylen Brown has so far in his career. McAdoo was a former MVP and one of the best players on the team in his short time with the Celtics. Gerald Henderson was a starter on a championship team.

If loyalty is only extremely important to you up until the point where we can get better players back in a trade, then your loyalty isn't worth a squirrel's fart.

[OBisHalJordan]

Maybe you can explain that to Gerald Henderson, Cedric Maxwell, Rick Robey, Bob McAdoo, Danny Ainge, and the dozens of other players who were Red's trade fodder back in the day. This attribution of undying loyalty to his players is such a weird romanticization of a guy who is known and lauded for being a wheeler and dealer.

Of those only Maxwell is core piece. The rest were role players so all you've shown is the one exception to the rule. Thanks for proving my point.

Danny Ainge has been to exactly as many all star games as Jaylen Brown has so far in his career. McAdoo was a former MVP and one of the best players on the team in his short time with the Celtics. Gerald Henderson was a starter on a championship team.

If loyalty is only extremely important to you up until the point where we can get better players back in a trade, then your loyalty isn't worth a squirrel's fart.

Let's wait until Brown retires to see how many allstar games he makes. Right now the comparison to DA is irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion. McAdoo played 20 games with the Celtics.

So riddle me this win-at-all-costs-crowds, should Auerbach have traded Bird and McHale? Should he have traded Cowens and Hondo? Should he have traded Russell? Is everyone on the trading block at every minute or are there limits?

[Slax]

Of those only Maxwell is core piece. The rest were role players so all you've shown is the one exception to the rule. Thanks for proving my point.

Danny Ainge has been to exactly as many all star games as Jaylen Brown has so far in his career. McAdoo was a former MVP and one of the best players on the team in his short time with the Celtics. Gerald Henderson was a starter on a championship team.

If loyalty is only extremely important to you up until the point where we can get better players back in a trade, then your loyalty isn't worth a squirrel's fart.

Let's wait until Brown retires to see how many allstar games he makes. Right now the comparison to DA is irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion. McAdoo played 20 games with the Celtics.

So riddle me this win-at-all-costs-crowds, should Auerbach have traded Bird and McHale? Should he have traded Cowens and Hondo? Should he have traded Russell? Is everyone on the trading block at every minute or are there limits?

Most of those players except maybe Cowens we extracted value out of during contention until they were injured and well past their primes, and the reason we stopped contending was that the star players weren't really good and healthy enough to have enormous value anymore. Can you turn this into a hypothetical that's more similar to Brown, where he is in his prime and well liked by fans and an excellent player and the team is still contending for a championship but it's not an an all-NBA guy or the face of the franchise or anything?

[Ben-N1ce]

Celtics should stick to what they are doing. 1 Title in 35 years is great. Might get another one by 2050. Trust the process.

[watsonthedragon]

Anyone who disagrees with this position is not a real Celtic fan.

That’s incredibly false, and you have no right to say what is or isn’t a real fan.

“Celtic pride” is toxic.

Treating players like interchangeable parts is toxic. Ignoring the history of this team and denouncing "Celtic Pride" is really sad to see. If all you care about is winning, why not just follow whatever team is first in the standings? Why even follow a particular team?

I can't believe so many "Celtic fans" want to win one with KD! KD? You want to repeat that sad pathetic story! It was a tragedy with the warriors. It will be a farce with us. I want to see a homegrown team compete for years and try to win multiple titles. A mercenary title with KD should taste like ash in the mouths of any real Celtic fan. Why?

Celtic pride. This team used to mean and should still mean something. It meant something really important in the 1960s, which faded into fundamentally sound team basketball. Superstar players sacrificing to win. A shared understanding among fans that individual accolades and records (Wilt) just can't measure up to team accomplishments (Russel). Moreover, Jaylen Brown is probably the most vocal advocate for social justice on the Celtics since Russel. The management and the fanbase should respect and elevate this work. Instead, people are talking about trading him like he's just another commodity. Pathetic. Disgusting. Shameful.

The IT trade all time scum bag move that Auerbach wouldn't have done. The same with this one. Team chemistry matters. Valuing players as people matters. This team just went to the finals. The core is young. They've earned a few more chances. Not only is this just a bad on its own terms, given KD's age and injury history, It's the cynical, short term move that degrades the integrity of the franchise, league, fanbase and sport. The discussion of this trade is case in point.

If you truly don't think Red wouldn't have made the IT move you're delusional - every GM in the league makes that move 100 times over.

It's ironic that Celtic Pride is all about rooting for name on the front of the jersey, not the back, and yet its the boomers yelling about Celtic Pride saying they wouldn't want a "mercenary" Championship with KD.

Listen, if we had our choice of winning a Finals with JT and JB or winning with JT and KD, 100% of us on here would choose the former, but that's not the case. I personally believe that making the move would give us a much better shot of a Championship in the next 2-3 years and that's my #1 priority as a Cs fan. That makes me a worse fan than you?

This whole thing just comes across as so **** elitist, like "we're too good for a title with that player".

[sam_I_am]

Was it a scum bag move to trade to trade Dennis Johnson to Celtics? Of course not - he was traded to a contender despite being a finals MVP. IT being traded to Cavs to play with Lebron should have been great for IT and his brand. I personally hated it at the time because I disliked Kyrie and loved IT but we didn’t know how serious the injury was.

[MagicBagley18]

Real Celtic fans care. There is a generational difference. Slax's post is just wrong. Auerbach valued players and people and built his core and then supplemented it. He didn't trade Bird because that would have been a **** thing to do (just like trading IT was a **** thing to do and trading Brown would be a **** thing to do). He didn't treat people like commodities and act like a hedge fund manager and move whomever whenever in order to maximize perceived value.

This used to be a team. Now its just another soulless business. If you don't understand why that is upsetting, I feel sorry for you. I would not want to live such a disenchanted life with no meaning or values (beyond utility maximization).

No. All Celtics fans respect the rich history this franchise has but also are able to realize times have changed. This is a player movement league now. Rosters are constantly churned and guys don’t play full careers in one spot anymore. Things are fluid and executives have to take risks to win championships. We all respect what the Celtics mean to nba history and how they’ve paved the way for so much along the way.

The problem is the league has changed. How rosters are constructed has changed and we get that. It’s a new era and the only people who really don’t seem to get it are those posting the same stuff as you. Speaking largely in platitudes and Disney world level slogans and mantras. Adapting to the new nba isn’t a slap in the face to the old way or disrespectful to it- it’s trying to keep up with how the world and the league works so we can in fact win at the highest levels like the teams of yesteryear.

The worlds passing you by my friend. I’m not here to say which way is better or worse but I’m aware of how things work today in the nba and maybe this can be your wake up call. Welcome to reality- yes, this is a business lol.

So we've gone from "who cares" to "All Celtic fans respect the rich history of this franchise." Interesting flip flop.

In any case, social reality is multidimensional and contradictory. For every tendency, there's a counter tendency. Every rule is only visible because of the exceptions to it. Weak minds follow the herd and its apparent "common sense." Visionaries bend the stick and the other direction and change basic dynamics, which the mentally weak herd will eventually follow.

So to the point of this thread, Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, and Curry stand out as recent examples that fly in the face your awareness "how things work." Ownership and management could go to Tatum, Brown, and Smart and say we want you three to play your entire careers here. Winning as Celtic means a lot more than winning elsewhere. They could be legends like Kobe or a forgotten mercenaries like Ray Allen (will anyone retire his number? Will anyone retire Durant's number?).

Yes. Who cares what Red Auerbach would have done. It’s irrelevant in today’s nba. You respect what those who came before you and his contributions and you respect his career and building the Celtics but it means absolutely jack **** today in terms of roster construction and how the league moves and how to evaluate what deals to make and not make.

You can name those 4 outliers all you want all of whom besides curry started playing before this more modern player movement era really began to takeoff and then I can name countless others who’ve moved on to new teams. Ray Allen also isn’t a forgotten mercenary lol- he’s one of the great shooters and players in nba history. That’s not very “once a Celtic always a Celtic” of you.....red would likely frown upon that. Shame. Shame. Shame.

That said Duncan tested free agency and nearly left San Antonio, Kobe demanded out before west gifted them gasol and curry has been a benefactor of player movement by landing Durant and getting 2 of his 4 titles with him joining curry via free agency. The only weak mind here is applying old term team building and franchise building methods to the modern day. It’s not only weak but it shows you lack the awareness to see how things happen today and the depth to see how it’s an entirely different league.

It’s one thing to cherish the way things were....we all do in some regard. It’s another to be stuck in the past.

[SichtingLives]

I'm in my 40's and Celtic Pride has been better represented by a very dated, cheesy movie than championship basketball in my lifetime. In this league you're either winning a ring or you're spinning your wheels and I bet this was always the case back in the Celtics heyday too. It's just that back then, we were actually winning rings. What's ironic though is there is a contingent of this fanbase that has always had an excuse for why mediocrity and kicking the can down the road is good and the right thing to do. Time and results have proven in the modern NBA that it is typically not the right thing to do. Assembling a championship team in this league is often hasty, opportunistic, a little cheap and dirty feeling. But that is how teams get rings now. And it doesn't reflect on the Celtics it just reflects on the league today. I think we've got enough 2nd, 3rd place finishes in this era. This entire rebuilding process that afiac we're still connected to has been exhausting to endure. I wish this franchise would just shoot its damn shot and win or lose, move on to something else when it works/doesn't work. Call me evolved but I'm really not into the idea of watching the same team and core players for a decade anymore unless they're peeling off multiple rings. Keep it moving

[steefP2]

TIL I’m not a real fan. Guess I have no reason to watch games at 3 am anymore

[Shak_Celts]

Long live this thread!!! Let it have 1000 pages if people keep it going!!

[Slax]

Long live this thread!!! Let it have 1000 pages if people keep it going!!

The year is 82732. Earth is a lost planet - the capital of the Interstellar Empire has been moved to Proxima Centauri b. News of first contact in a far off planetary system has just reached our system after thousands of years. The news has profound implications. It reinvigorates heated debates on religion, culture, politics, and - of course - whether or not Jaylen Brown should be traded for Kevin Durant.

[31to6]

Long live this thread!!! Let it have 1000 pages if people keep it going!!

The year is 82732. Earth is a lost planet - the capital of the Interstellar Empire has been moved to Proxima Centauri b. News of first contact in a far off planetary system has just reached our system after thousands of years. The news has profound implications. It reinvigorates heated debates on religion, culture, politics, and - of course - whether or not Jaylen Brown should be traded for Kevin Durant.

**** your first line here had me laughing so much I had a coughing fit.

“JB or KD?” was all that was left from humanity.

[sonnyhill]

Other than a healthy Buck team, I do not see any other team in the East who could beat this Celtic team in a 7-game playoff series. Can the Celtics beat Milwaukee with the roster as it is currently constructed? I am "50-50" on this one. However, with KD, the Celtics would put a lot more pressure on the Milwaukee defense and KD would be part of a taller "Celtic wall," either paired up with Tatum or paired up with Brown.

If the Celtics were to get through the Eastern Conference, the Golden State juggernaut will be the next daunting task; and, let's face it, it is not the Celtic offense, but rather, it is the Celtic defense which will have to step up in order to beat the Warriors. Golden State surprised me by actually having Curry "hunt" Celtic big men in the pick-and-roll. Instead of acquiring KD, the Celtics may need to experiment throughout the season with various lineups which can effectively switch on every screen; this lineup may actually have to be smaller in size, but quicker and better at lateral defensive movement.

BTW, the Tatum-Brown forward combination is perfectly complimentary and possibly the best forward combination in the league. Replacing one of the J's with KD would only improve the lineup; yet, I am not sure if that trade would make for a lineup which can beat both Milwaukee and Golden State in next season's playoffs.

[Feed Your Head]

Other than a healthy Buck team, I do not see any other team in the East who could beat this Celtic team in a 7-game playoff series. Can the Celtics beat Milwaukee with the roster as it is currently constructed? I am "50-50" on this one. However, with KD, the Celtics would put a lot more pressure on the Milwaukee defense and KD would be part of a taller "Celtic wall," either paired up with Tatum or paired up with Brown.

If the Celtics were to get through the Eastern Conference, the Golden State juggernaut will be the next daunting task; and, let's face it, it is not the Celtic offense, but rather, it is the Celtic defense which will have to step up in order to beat the Warriors. Golden State surprised me by actually having Curry "hunt" Celtic big men in the pick-and-roll. Instead of acquiring KD, the Celtics may need to experiment throughout the season with various lineups which can effectively switch on every screen; this lineup may actually have to be smaller in size, but quicker and better at lateral defensive movement.

BTW, the Tatum-Brown forward combination is perfectly complimentary and possibly the best forward combination in the league. Replacing one of the J's with KD would only improve the lineup; yet, I am not sure if that trade would make for a lineup which can beat both Milwaukee and Golden State in next season's playoffs.

There is no scenario with Durant and Jaylen, it’s been made abundantly clear that Tatum is untouchable, and that Jaylen has been offered for KD.

[RB34]

Getting kinda sick of the conversation around JB & KD, especially from members of the media.

I’ve heard multiple talking heads say that we can’t trade Smart because we can’t rely on Brogdon, as he’s always injured. The same people completely ignore the fact KD has played like 4 games in 3 seasons.

They say that KD almost single handedly beat the Bucks but completely ignore the vomit of a playoffs he served up this year.

I don’t want KD.

What’s wrong with just rolling with your guys. If it happens and we win, it won’t be about the Celtics it will be about KD.

If we win with JB & JT it will be so so sweet, if we don’t, so be it.