Trade Ideas

[mcfly1204]

It's not the only thing the team needs but it is what DG needs next to him for a bulk of his minutes. He's spending a lot of time with Mobley (25%), Allen (10%), and Lauri (35.8%) guys who can't really shoot from outside or not consistently at least.

Garland is the best shooter on the team or at least 1a/1b with Love but until Rubio gets back or Neto proves otherwise, Garland is going to have to handle a lionshare of the on ball minutes and that's okay, because he thrives there.

To circle back to your other point, I looked it up and Garland does get doubled 10th most in the league, however, he is good out of those situations. If a free throw is 1.3 points per possession and 1.0 is considered a good PPP... When Garland is doubled once every 4 possessions, he's creating 1.09 PPP. Could being doubled all the time contribute to his high turnovers, probably. The one thing the metric can't show me is what part of the floor he is being doubled in and at what point in the game he is being doubled.

At any rate, I say all that, to say, DG and the Cavs did just fine when he was doubled last season, no need to jeopardize the entire unit just to put a guy next to him who can't shoot or defend, because he might be a slightly better ball handler (not even creator) than other options.

I think your talent appraisal is way off, but LeVert is a veteran too so I'm just hoping others get a fair look and JBB doesn't just name him and stick with him.

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

I assume it's things like looping Markannen in with Mobley and Allen as guys who cannot shoot consistently.

[JonFromVA]

It's not the only thing the team needs but it is what DG needs next to him for a bulk of his minutes. He's spending a lot of time with Mobley (25%), Allen (10%), and Lauri (35.8%) guys who can't really shoot from outside or not consistently at least.

Garland is the best shooter on the team or at least 1a/1b with Love but until Rubio gets back or Neto proves otherwise, Garland is going to have to handle a lionshare of the on ball minutes and that's okay, because he thrives there.

To circle back to your other point, I looked it up and Garland does get doubled 10th most in the league, however, he is good out of those situations. If a free throw is 1.3 points per possession and 1.0 is considered a good PPP... When Garland is doubled once every 4 possessions, he's creating 1.09 PPP. Could being doubled all the time contribute to his high turnovers, probably. The one thing the metric can't show me is what part of the floor he is being doubled in and at what point in the game he is being doubled.

At any rate, I say all that, to say, DG and the Cavs did just fine when he was doubled last season, no need to jeopardize the entire unit just to put a guy next to him who can't shoot or defend, because he might be a slightly better ball handler (not even creator) than other options.

I think your talent appraisal is way off, but LeVert is a veteran too so I'm just hoping others get a fair look and JBB doesn't just name him and stick with him.

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

Then your interpretation of the stats without regard to skill. For instance if defenses backed off LeVert 6ft in the corner and shooting those was his primary role on offense,, I suspect he could knock down 35% of those like Isaac.

Maybe even more ...

[JonFromVA]

I think your talent appraisal is way off, but LeVert is a veteran too so I'm just hoping others get a fair look and JBB doesn't just name him and stick with him.

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

I assume it's things like looping Markannen in with Mobley and Allen as guys who cannot shoot consistently.

That too ... Lauri has gravity as a shooter, Isaac has none. That stuff makes a difference.

[JujitsuFlip]

I think your talent appraisal is way off, but LeVert is a veteran too so I'm just hoping others get a fair look and JBB doesn't just name him and stick with him.

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

Then your interpretation of the stats without regard to skill. For instance if defenses backed off LeVert 6ft in the corner and shooting those was his primary role on offense,, I suspect he could knock down 35% of those like Isaac.

Maybe even more ...

You're upset that players have roles? That's odd.

I'm sorry LeVert dribbles into coverage to take his shots, lol not sure what to tell ya.

What's the excuse for LeVert being a negative defender? If he tried harder he might be a plus defender?

Idc about skill, I care about fit. LeVert isn't a good fit with Garland

[JujitsuFlip]

I think your talent appraisal is way off, but LeVert is a veteran too so I'm just hoping others get a fair look and JBB doesn't just name him and stick with him.

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

I assume it's things like looping Markannen in with Mobley and Allen as guys who cannot shoot consistently.

League average last season was 35.4% and Markkanen shot 35.8% when the other front court guy is a below average shooter and the last front court guy is a non shooter, it matters.

There were 94 other rotation players that shot it more efficiently than Lauri last season..

[JonFromVA]

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

Then your interpretation of the stats without regard to skill. For instance if defenses backed off LeVert 6ft in the corner and shooting those was his primary role on offense,, I suspect he could knock down 35% of those like Isaac.

Maybe even more ...

You're upset that players have roles? That's odd.

I'm sorry LeVert dribbles into coverage to take his shots, lol not sure what to tell ya.

What's the excuse for LeVert being a negative defender? If he tried harder he might be a plus defender?

Idc about skill, I care about fit. LeVert isn't a good fit with Garland

Maybe he's not, but I'm not judging it until I see it. Altman doesn't give up those picks for a player who can't fit.

Not to mention but part of a PG's job is to help his teammates fit and get the most out of them, not visa-versa.

[JujitsuFlip]

Then your interpretation of the stats without regard to skill. For instance if defenses backed off LeVert 6ft in the corner and shooting those was his primary role on offense,, I suspect he could knock down 35% of those like Isaac.

Maybe even more ...

You're upset that players have roles? That's odd.

I'm sorry LeVert dribbles into coverage to take his shots, lol not sure what to tell ya.

What's the excuse for LeVert being a negative defender? If he tried harder he might be a plus defender?

Idc about skill, I care about fit. LeVert isn't a good fit with Garland

Maybe he's not, but I'm not judging it until I see it. Altman doesn't give up those picks for a player who can't fit.

Not to mention but part of a PG's job is to help his teammates fit and get the most out of them, not visa-versa.

It's essentially one 1st round pick, that may turn into a 2nd rounder, not like the Cavs need to add more young guys.

It's not a PGs job to make Waiters, Sexton, and LeVert archetypes not have low basketball IQs and take low efficiency shots because they want the praise and abandon the offense.

Its up to the coach to bench those guys and the GM to get those guys off the roster.

[JonFromVA]

You're upset that players have roles? That's odd.

I'm sorry LeVert dribbles into coverage to take his shots, lol not sure what to tell ya.

What's the excuse for LeVert being a negative defender? If he tried harder he might be a plus defender?

Idc about skill, I care about fit. LeVert isn't a good fit with Garland

Maybe he's not, but I'm not judging it until I see it. Altman doesn't give up those picks for a player who can't fit.

Not to mention but part of a PG's job is to help his teammates fit and get the most out of them, not visa-versa.

It's essentially one 1st round pick, that may turn into a 2nd rounder, not like the Cavs need to add more young guys.

It's not a PGs job to make Waiters, Sexton, and LeVert archetypes not have low basketball IQs and take low efficiency shots because they want the praise and abandon the offense.

Its up to the coach to bench those guys and the GM to get those guys off the roster.

We also gave up Houston's 2nd which was a nice pick.

But I'd say its both, the PG should make the most of what he's given and if that's holding back the team the GM and coach need to step-in.

DG is a special case because he's such a weapon, but I think he gets it which is good news for us. No matter how amazing one player is, you have to bring the other 4 along too and find ways to make them fit by getting them the ball where they can do something with it even if it means literally sacrificing an opportunity to spoon feed a teammate

[jbk1234]

I mean, it's not my talent evaluation, it's just the stats lol

I assume it's things like looping Markannen in with Mobley and Allen as guys who cannot shoot consistently.

League average last season was 35.4% and Markkanen shot 35.8% when the other front court guy is a below average shooter and the last front court guy is a non shooter, it matters.

There were 94 other rotation players that shot it more efficiently than Lauri last season..

On how many attempts and from where on the court? It matters. If anything, Lauri could improve his percentage to top 10% of the NBA if he cut back on those too deep threes.

[JujitsuFlip]

Maybe he's not, but I'm not judging it until I see it. Altman doesn't give up those picks for a player who can't fit.

Not to mention but part of a PG's job is to help his teammates fit and get the most out of them, not visa-versa.

It's essentially one 1st round pick, that may turn into a 2nd rounder, not like the Cavs need to add more young guys.

It's not a PGs job to make Waiters, Sexton, and LeVert archetypes not have low basketball IQs and take low efficiency shots because they want the praise and abandon the offense.

Its up to the coach to bench those guys and the GM to get those guys off the roster.

We also gave up Houston's 2nd which was a nice pick.

But I'd say its both, the PG should make the most of what he's given and if that's holding back the team the GM and coach need to step-in.

DG is a special case because he's such a weapon, but I think he gets it which is good news for us. No matter how amazing one player is, the PG has to bring the other 4 along too and find ways to make them fit by getting them the ball where they can do something with it even if it means literally sacrificing an opportunity to spoon feed a teammate

Cavs just wasted 3 seconds so not worried about #31.

Strongly disagree with the bold. DG shouldn't be okay with wasting possessions just to appease some guys ego, that's a losing brand of basketball, unless the dude going iso is top tier like MJ, Kobe, or LBJ but most times they were primarily handling the ball anyway.

[toooskies]

I assume it's things like looping Markannen in with Mobley and Allen as guys who cannot shoot consistently.

League average last season was 35.4% and Markkanen shot 35.8% when the other front court guy is a below average shooter and the last front court guy is a non shooter, it matters.

There were 94 other rotation players that shot it more efficiently than Lauri last season..

On how many attempts and from where on the court? It matters. If anything, Lauri could improve his percentage to top 10% of the NBA if he cut back on those too deep threes.

Actually....

Read on Twitter

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[JonFromVA]

It's essentially one 1st round pick, that may turn into a 2nd rounder, not like the Cavs need to add more young guys.

It's not a PGs job to make Waiters, Sexton, and LeVert archetypes not have low basketball IQs and take low efficiency shots because they want the praise and abandon the offense.

Its up to the coach to bench those guys and the GM to get those guys off the roster.

We also gave up Houston's 2nd which was a nice pick.

But I'd say its both, the PG should make the most of what he's given and if that's holding back the team the GM and coach need to step-in.

DG is a special case because he's such a weapon, but I think he gets it which is good news for us. No matter how amazing one player is, the PG has to bring the other 4 along too and find ways to make them fit by getting them the ball where they can do something with it even if it means literally sacrificing an opportunity to spoon feed a teammate

Cavs just wasted 3 seconds so not worried about #31.

Strongly disagree with the bold. DG shouldn't be okay with wasting possessions just to appease some guys ego, that's a losing brand of basketball, unless the dude going iso is top tier like MJ, Kobe, or LBJ but most times they were primarily handling the ball anyway.

I didn't say waste, I said sacrifice. Keeping teammates engaged is never a waste.

[JujitsuFlip]

We also gave up Houston's 2nd which was a nice pick.

But I'd say its both, the PG should make the most of what he's given and if that's holding back the team the GM and coach need to step-in.

DG is a special case because he's such a weapon, but I think he gets it which is good news for us. No matter how amazing one player is, the PG has to bring the other 4 along too and find ways to make them fit by getting them the ball where they can do something with it even if it means literally sacrificing an opportunity to spoon feed a teammate

Cavs just wasted 3 seconds so not worried about #31.

Strongly disagree with the bold. DG shouldn't be okay with wasting possessions just to appease some guys ego, that's a losing brand of basketball, unless the dude going iso is top tier like MJ, Kobe, or LBJ but most times they were primarily handling the ball anyway.

I didn't say waste, I said sacrifice. Keeping teammates engaged is never a waste.

If DG is passing up a lob to Mobley/Allen or Okoro/Lauri open on the 3 point line aka spoonfed assists so LeVert can dribble the air out of the basketball and take a contested mid range jumper, yes, that is a waste of a possession.

This isn't the And1 Mixtape Tour, its the Cavs attempting to become a playoff team without LeBron for the first time in 25 years.

[JonFromVA]

Cavs just wasted 3 seconds so not worried about #31.

Strongly disagree with the bold. DG shouldn't be okay with wasting possessions just to appease some guys ego, that's a losing brand of basketball, unless the dude going iso is top tier like MJ, Kobe, or LBJ but most times they were primarily handling the ball anyway.

I didn't say waste, I said sacrifice. Keeping teammates engaged is never a waste.

If DG is passing up a lob to Mobley/Allen or Okoro/Lauri open on the 3 point line aka spoonfed assists so LeVert can dribble the air out of the basketball and take a contested mid range jumper, yes, that is a waste of a possession.

This isn't the And1 Mixtape Tour, its the Cavs attempting to become a playoff team without LeBron for the first time in 25 years.

Thats not an example of Garland helping LeVert score.

[winforlose]

I had a funky trade idea that sends Kyrie to you guys, but I don’t even want to bother checking it on the machines or figuring out picks and what not if my hunch is correct. Do you guys hate Kyrie for leaving?

[gflem]

I had a funky trade idea that sends Kyrie to you guys, but I don’t even want to bother checking it on the machines or figuring out picks and what not if my hunch is correct. Do you guys hate Kyrie for leaving?

Some may, but I suspect that most if not all of us would rather not want him for all the drama he would bring. This team is young and going in the right direction, and bringing in a me first guy like Kyrie is the last thing this team needs.

[toooskies]

I had a funky trade idea that sends Kyrie to you guys, but I don’t even want to bother checking it on the machines or figuring out picks and what not if my hunch is correct. Do you guys hate Kyrie for leaving?

I don't see any reason to rent Kyrie for a season, there's much more bad stuff that could happen to this team in that time period than good stuff. He might be interesting in 2023 if Rubio never recovers from his knee injury, but certainly not at a full max salary.

[jbk1234]

I had a funky trade idea that sends Kyrie to you guys, but I don’t even want to bother checking it on the machines or figuring out picks and what not if my hunch is correct. Do you guys hate Kyrie for leaving?

Kyrie burned his bridges here and it's not just the fans who'd have an issue with him coming back. It's ownership and Altman you'd have to convince and I don't think you could.

[winforlose]

I had a funky trade idea that sends Kyrie to you guys, but I don’t even want to bother checking it on the machines or figuring out picks and what not if my hunch is correct. Do you guys hate Kyrie for leaving?

Kyrie burned his bridges here and it's not just the fans who'd have an issue with him coming back. It's ownership and Altman you'd have to convince and I don't think you could.

That was my instinct as well. I just wanted confirmation.

[JonFromVA]

I had a funky trade idea that sends Kyrie to you guys, but I don’t even want to bother checking it on the machines or figuring out picks and what not if my hunch is correct. Do you guys hate Kyrie for leaving?

Kyrie burned his bridges here and it's not just the fans who'd have an issue with him coming back. It's ownership and Altman you'd have to convince and I don't think you could.

Meh, we'd quickly unburn them if there was any reason to believe he was the missing piece on this team, but we already have a 6'1" combo guard as well as an actual point guard.

Kyrie was problematic before he decided there were a lot more important things in his life than playing basketball. I used to point out that our second unit was as good and at times better with Delly running it than Kyrie. Everyone excused him by saying the team was built for LeBron, but to him teammates were mostly these obstacles he could take advantage of to elude defenders on his way to the basket and an assist was the thing he did when he ran out of room to dribble or shoot.