Tyler Herro signs 4 year 130 million extension

[_GH0ST_]

I am not going to add reams of text to all this brilliant analysis, but I'm happy with Herro's extension. How did any of you think he wasn't getting an exension? Would you prefer to pay him more next off-season? Because unless you are willing to risk another team take him, that was the real choice. I'm also ok with Miami paying the tax, but we gotta win. I'm optimistic.

Herro is rfa, not fa. We could have kept him here next summer as long as he didn't turn into Michael Jordan and get a supermax from the other teams, but we didn't. It shouldn't be this hard to understand.

Yes. But you would have paid more if he succeeds. He is eligible for millions more. The team bet on his success. A starting salary of $26.8m is a pretty good deal.

If successful it would only be a few million more. The risk taken is much greater. Similar answers were given when I said a season ago that the payment for Duncan was too much.

[El Alonzo scowl]

It's time for Pat Riley to step down, he has clearly lost his mind and is no longer mentally fit to lead the franchise.

[gom]

Herro is rfa, not fa. We could have kept him here next summer as long as he didn't turn into Michael Jordan and get a supermax from the other teams, but we didn't. It shouldn't be this hard to understand.

Yes. But you would have paid more if he succeeds. He is eligible for millions more. The team bet on his success. A starting salary of $26.8m is a pretty good deal.

If successful it would only be a few million more. The risk taken is much greater. Similar answers were given when I said a season ago that the payment for Duncan was too much.

A few millions more in starting salary translates into a LOT more over the course of the deal. He's eligible for a 5/188 extension. Other contracts of his class:

Zion (NOP): 5/193 (25%). If all-NBA, 5/231 (30%). Herro's contract does not have 30% language.
Ja Morant (MEM): 5/193 (25%). If all-NBA, 5/231 (30%). (15% trade bonus)
Darius Garland (CLE): 5/193 (25%). If all-NBA, 5/231 (30%). (15% trade bonus)

Example of an RFA from the previous season:

Deandre Ayton signed a 4 year / $132,929,128 contract with the Phoenix Suns, including $132,929,128 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $33,232,282. In 2022-23, Ayton will earn a base salary of $30,913,750, while carrying a cap hit of $30,913,750 and a dead cap value of $30,913,750.

It's fair to compare Herro's deal to RJ Barrett's and conclude the Knicks got a better deal, but I like Herro more and feel the difference is worth the better player.

[El Alonzo scowl]

We are f'ing done as a contender for the rest of the decade. All our money is now tied-up in non-superstar players except Jimmy who is 33 years old. No tradeable first round picks until 2027, no second round picks until 2028. Welcome to a decade of irrelevance.

Dolphin fans are going to love this **** since they are a fan of mediocrity. They accept being mediocre, boring, and not trying to win a championship.

[_GH0ST_]

Yes. But you would have paid more if he succeeds. He is eligible for millions more. The team bet on his success. A starting salary of $26.8m is a pretty good deal.

If successful it would only be a few million more. The risk taken is much greater. Similar answers were given when I said a season ago that the payment for Duncan was too much.

A few millions more in starting salary translates into a LOT more over the course of the deal. He's eligible for a 5/188 extension. Other contracts of his class:

Zion (NOP): 5/193 (25%). If all-NBA, 5/231 (30%). Herro's contract does not have 30% language.
Ja Morant (MEM): 5/193 (25%). If all-NBA, 5/231 (30%). (15% trade bonus)
Darius Garland (CLE): 5/193 (25%). If all-NBA, 5/231 (30%). (15% trade bonus)

Example of an RFA from the previous season:

Deandre Ayton signed a 4 year / $132,929,128 contract with the Phoenix Suns, including $132,929,128 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $33,232,282. In 2022-23, Ayton will earn a base salary of $30,913,750, while carrying a cap hit of $30,913,750 and a dead cap value of $30,913,750.

It's fair to compare Herro's deal to RJ Barrett's and conclude the Knicks got a better deal, but I like Herro more and feel the difference is worth the better player.

Herro is not at the level of the players you wrote. This is exactly the problem.

[BFRESH44]

Definitely slightly enjoying the meltdown from the contingent of alleged Heat fans, who actually believed the Heat were NOT going to lock up one of their young cornerstones. And yes Tyler Herro is a young cornerstone. A young cornerstone who actually has great on court chemistry with our other young cornerstone (Bam).

We were 2 for 2 on those picks . And looking forward to them both showing continued improvement over the years.

[gom]

Herro is not at the level of the players you wrote. This is exactly the problem.

Herro is by any measure, a very good NBA player.

Herro: 1.9 VORP, 0.064 WS/48. 5300 mp. 38.5% 3 pt shooting (behind Cam Johnson: 39%). 4th in points (behind Ja, Barrett, & Garland). Minutes played: 6th behind Barrett, Garland, Morant, Coby White, PJ Washington. Tied for 5th in assists well behind Morant & Garland. 12th in win shares, 23rd in ws/48. 8th in VORP.

Compared to the others in his class.

Zion: (great talent, many injuries (half as many games played as Herro so far), and a full 5-year designated player max extension)
Ja Morant: (best player of the class. Full 5-year designated player max extension)
RJ Barrett: (starter, 0.042 ws/48 and -0.3 vorp. good talent has plenty to prove, much like Herro. Discounted 4 year deal)
De'Andre Hunter: (starter but chances are fading, ws/48 -0.033, -1.6 vorp. No extension so far.)
Darius Garland: (great plaeyer whose played over 6000 so far, 1.1 vorp, 0.050 ws/48. Full 5-year designated player max)
Jarrett Culver: (a disappointment so far, no extension, fighting to remain in the NBA)
Coby White: (reliable starter, hasn’t got extension yet, Bulls will probably trade him or let him assess value next offseason)
Jaxson Hayes: (pretty good and promising but hasn’t hit yet. He’s an RFA if he isn’t extended. Tricky.)
Darius Bazley: (Will need to play well to get a new deal.)
Keldon Johnson: (4/74 with up to 6m in incentives. Has played well for the Spurs: 0.095 and 1.4 vorp)
Jordan Poole: (No extension yet. It will happen)

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/how-jordan-poole-could-be-impacted-tyler-herros-130m-contract-extension

Rui Hachimura: (No extension. Likely to be traded? 0.061 ws/48, -0.8 VORP)
Cam Reddish: (it’s complicated, no extension)
Cam Johnson: Suns have until the 17th. Herro’s contract puts pressure on them to sign an extension. Johnson is good.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2022/10/03/phoenix-suns-cameron-johnson-extension-2/

PJ Washington: (CHO) Washington is a solid contributor and needs an extension too. Charlotte isn’t in a great place with Miles Bridges already extended and unable to play at the moment.

Some Heat fans just don't value their players the same as others. Thankfully our FO isn't as short-sighted.

[Kobewade11]

This continues to be one of the whiniest fanbases I’ve seen. And no Im not grouping any player-fans in who just so happen to be here.

[gom]

This continues to be one of the whiniest fanbases I’ve seen. And no Im not grouping any player-fans in who just so happen to be here.

Just to be clear... You are whining about the fan base, right?

[Kobewade11]

Just to be clear... You are whining about the fan base, right?

Im making a statement about the segment of this fanbase that goes nuclear over every transaction. The Riley needs to step down, sky is falling, wing of the fanbase

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Damn y’all need to chill

At least see how he plays next season before you jump off a Cliff

[El Alonzo scowl]

remember the time in 2005 playoffs, when the Heat were up 3-2 in the ECF on the defending champion Detroit Pistons... and then Wade goes down with a freak rib injury. The Heat lose game 6 without Wade, series tied 3-3, and then Wade tries to play in game 7 but isn't healthy and asks to be taken out if I remember, and we lose.

That very summer. Did Riley say, "We woulda won if not for Wade getting injured, we are staying put, and i'm going to extend Damon Jones' contract. Yeah he needs to play better but it's okay, we expect him to."


NO.

Pat said, nah bro, watch this.

Pulled off giant trades, revamped whole team. New starting PG in Jason Williams, with Gary Payton coming in to backup. New starting SF in James Posey, etc... with some Antoine Walker mixed in


But now... we good? everything okay??? with how pathetic our offense looked vs the Celtics????



riley has lost his damn mind.

People are now ok with losing three straight home games in a playoff series and scoring back-to-back 80 point outings. There is no sense of urgency whatsoever to seize this championship window, it genuinely baffles me.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

Herro is not anywhere near CJ or Booker nor has the track history of being as good as either of them but now his contract is near there's.

Their numbers after year 3 tell a different story

Well, if you ignore they were starters vs Herro being a 6th man. They played against starters more then Herro did to achieve their numbers. Herro did start 10 games last year, they weren't good numbers, TS% of 472 is horrible. Also his last 2 playoffs have been pretty bad. He scored 24 vs Atlanta and then the next game vs them 3 pts on 1 of 8 shooting.

Still dying on that 10 game sample size hill huh. I'll admit this is kinda frustrating but I'll try again, if not to convince you of anything but to give some contextual information to anyone reading this

I don't think anyone is claiming that 22yo Herro was ready to effectively anchor a severely depleted offense last season, yet that's precisely the scenario he most often found himself in as a starter:

6/10 games without Butler
8/10 games without Bam
4/10 games without Butler and Bam

To make matters worse:

6/10 games on extended WC road trips
2/10 games on a b2b EC road trip
8/10 games overall on the road
5/10 games (4 on the road) vs teams with an avg rDRTG of -2.2 (would rank 8th best in the league)

Without Butler for 60% of these games, Herro was the only Heat player who could consistently create his own shot. Without Bam for 80% of these games, there's zero interior scoring threat to keep defenses honest. Without both Butler and Bam for 40% of these games, you're just throwing the entire kitchen plus the sink at Herro and simply putting any 3rd year onball scoring SG in an almost impossible position to succeed

Add in 80% of these games coming on road trips -- where even veteran players are often subject to substandard performances -- and now you're eliminating practice and rest from the equation of shuffling lineups and roles on the fly

So I'll ask, did you seriously expect Herro's efficiency over these 10 games to be anything remotely near his overall season average? Hell, peak LeBron James lost his two best offensive teammates in the 2015 Finals and saw his efficiency absolutely plummet to 47.7% TS

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Damn y’all need to chill

At least see how he plays next season before you jump off a Cliff

arent you supposed to prove your worth BEFORE getting paid though

tyler has a bunch of question marks. if you still have to see something from him, then why are you paying him. this is backwards

[MiamiSun]

People complaining just don't see the big picture. This is the NBA landscape now. Tyler got paid his market value. This was set not by Riley or Tyler's agents. This is what the CBA and rival teams have set with their players. You have to lock up your budding stars or other teams will over pay and all the hard work you have put into developing him goes out the window. If Tyler was on the market next year, another team would swoop him up because there are not many Free Agents left from his draft class. He is young and on the rise. I am just happy to hear that he came into training camp and showed out.

[AirP.]

Their numbers after year 3 tell a different story

Well, if you ignore they were starters vs Herro being a 6th man. They played against starters more then Herro did to achieve their numbers. Herro did start 10 games last year, they weren't good numbers, TS% of 472 is horrible. Also his last 2 playoffs have been pretty bad. He scored 24 vs Atlanta and then the next game vs them 3 pts on 1 of 8 shooting.

Still dying on that 10 game sample size hill huh. I'll admit this is kinda frustrating but I'll try again, if not to convince you of anything but to give some contextual information to anyone reading this

But of course, it's the times I know Herro is playing against higher level talent most of the game... well, when playing as a starter and playing against playoff teams where he's not been so great either, it's just odd that both of those situations usually mean Herro's playing against the better players more often but just completely ignore that as usual.

I don't think anyone is claiming that 22yo Herro was ready to effectively anchor a severely depleted offense last season, yet that's precisely the scenario he most often found himself in as a starter:

6/10 games without Butler
8/10 games without Bam
4/10 games without Butler and Bam

To make matters worse:

6/10 games on extended WC road trips
2/10 games on a b2b EC road trip
8/10 games overall on the road
5/10 games (4 on the road) vs teams with an avg rDRTG of -2.2 (would rank 8th best in the league)

Without Butler for 60% of these games, Herro was the only Heat player who could consistently create his own shot. Without Bam for 80% of these games, there's zero interior scoring threat to keep defenses honest. Without both Butler and Bam for 40% of these games, you're just throwing the entire kitchen plus the sink at Herro and simply putting any 3rd year onball scoring SG in an almost impossible position to succeed

He was just taking a lot of shots. I remember a Miami team without Herro, Butler or Bam going into Philly winning, the next game, still missing those 3 against Orlando Vincent put up 27, Strus 32 off the bench and Lowry 15 assists. Now the 3rd game they flopped without those 3 in Detroit losing by 10 with everyone but Strus shooting bad.

Now there were times when the team wasn't doing well offensively in the 1st quarter and Herro came out firing and hitting, but backups were already coming in the game at that time too and Herro is skilled enough to tear up bad defenders, it's why I'm kinda fine with his as a scoring 6th man which normally go to offensive only players.

Add in 80% of these games coming on road trips -- where even veteran players are often subject to substandard performances -- and now you're eliminating practice and rest from the equation of shuffling lineups and roles on the fly

So, I'll ask, did you seriously expect Herro's efficiency over these 10 games to be anything remotely near his overall season average? Hell, peak LeBron James lost his two best offensive teammates in the 2015 Finals and saw his efficiency absolutely plummet to 47.7% TS

His TS% dropped by .108, his FG% went from 46% as a reserve to 38% as a starter, the 3pt% went from 42% down to 30% and his ORTG went from 109 as a reserve to 95 as a starter. He's a talented guy but to throw that much money at him is a HUGE risk when he's not exactly shown the scoring ability against quality opponents when Miami needed it, it's not just a big risk for the amount of money he's getting but what Miami will have to do with players next season to say under the tax or at least not go over it much.

I had hoped to see Herro do well in the playoffs this year, to show he could do now that there's more tape on him, better scouting reports and we know for sure teams are gameplanning for him, but we didn't get to see that.

As of now he reminds me of players like Jamal Crawford or Ben Gordon, both really nice scorers but they're not really going to be players you want as your top paid guys on your roster if you have Championship aspirations.

A small market or just bad franchise would LOVE to have a guy like Herro, it gives them hope but if you're chasing a championship, you want a more proof or more good history before making such a drastic move with your franchise, this signing will change this team greatly by the start of next season, I don't see letting Butler get another year older and thinking next summer you'll move Herro + x to get a star.

[Hallstar]

Their numbers after year 3 tell a different story

Well, if you ignore they were starters vs Herro being a 6th man. They played against starters more then Herro did to achieve their numbers. Herro did start 10 games last year, they weren't good numbers, TS% of 472 is horrible. Also his last 2 playoffs have been pretty bad. He scored 24 vs Atlanta and then the next game vs them 3 pts on 1 of 8 shooting.

Still dying on that 10 game sample size hill huh. I'll admit this is kinda frustrating but I'll try again, if not to convince you of anything but to give some contextual information to anyone reading this

I don't think anyone is claiming that 22yo Herro was ready to effectively anchor a severely depleted offense last season, yet that's precisely the scenario he most often found himself in as a starter:

6/10 games without Butler
8/10 games without Bam
4/10 games without Butler and Bam

To make matters worse:

6/10 games on extended WC road trips
2/10 games on a b2b EC road trip
8/10 games overall on the road
5/10 games (4 on the road) vs teams with an avg rDRTG of -2.2 (would rank 8th best in the league)

Without Butler for 60% of these games, Herro was the only Heat player who could consistently create his own shot. Without Bam for 80% of these games, there's zero interior scoring threat to keep defenses honest. Without both Butler and Bam for 40% of these games, you're just throwing the entire kitchen plus the sink at Herro and simply putting any 3rd year onball scoring SG in an almost impossible position to succeed

Add in 80% of these games coming on road trips -- where even veteran players are often subject to substandard performances -- and now you're eliminating practice and rest from the equation of shuffling lineups and roles on the fly

So I'll ask, did you seriously expect Herro's efficiency over these 10 games to be anything remotely near his overall season average? Hell, peak LeBron James lost his two best offensive teammates in the 2015 Finals and saw his efficiency absolutely plummet to 47.7% TS

Tired of wasting time on that talking point

[AirP.]

Well, if you ignore they were starters vs Herro being a 6th man. They played against starters more then Herro did to achieve their numbers. Herro did start 10 games last year, they weren't good numbers, TS% of 472 is horrible. Also his last 2 playoffs have been pretty bad. He scored 24 vs Atlanta and then the next game vs them 3 pts on 1 of 8 shooting.

Spoiler:

Still dying on that 10 game sample size hill huh. I'll admit this is kinda frustrating but I'll try again, if not to convince you of anything but to give some contextual information to anyone reading this

I don't think anyone is claiming that 22yo Herro was ready to effectively anchor a severely depleted offense last season, yet that's precisely the scenario he most often found himself in as a starter:

6/10 games without Butler
8/10 games without Bam
4/10 games without Butler and Bam

To make matters worse:

6/10 games on extended WC road trips
2/10 games on a b2b EC road trip
8/10 games overall on the road
5/10 games (4 on the road) vs teams with an avg rDRTG of -2.2 (would rank 8th best in the league)

Without Butler for 60% of these games, Herro was the only Heat player who could consistently create his own shot. Without Bam for 80% of these games, there's zero interior scoring threat to keep defenses honest. Without both Butler and Bam for 40% of these games, you're just throwing the entire kitchen plus the sink at Herro and simply putting any 3rd year onball scoring SG in an almost impossible position to succeed

Add in 80% of these games coming on road trips -- where even veteran players are often subject to substandard performances -- and now you're eliminating practice and rest from the equation of shuffling lineups and roles on the fly

So I'll ask, did you seriously expect Herro's efficiency over these 10 games to be anything remotely near his overall season average? Hell, peak LeBron James lost his two best offensive teammates in the 2015 Finals and saw his efficiency absolutely plummet to 47.7% TS

Tired of wasting time on that talking point

Right, I have my opinions, others have theirs, I'm good with that and like hearing other sides of the argument. I had these same arguments with Minnesota fans about Wiggins for a year and a half. Although he's a different issue with Wiggins I told them either a big life event or being traded was what it would take to get Wiggins motivated during the games, I had hoped the birth of his child would do it, it didn't, it took being traded and taken out of his comfort zone to get him to play with more effort during games vs spacing out like he did so much in Minnesota.

[Bishop45]

All sports fans are pretty bad, sports is kinda stupid in general, but for the sake of art... I digress

[al bondiga]

Why so little covers on National sport Networks? Not many things are newsworthy as this for example ...they tell me Steven Adams is getting extended for 2 years

heat doesnt get much respect after cabron's left . aside from that am happy that hero got his cash but he needs to improve his ball handling skills as defense as well


and should be only used as a spot up shooter only, the PG experiment is a failure in my opinion

Hero has some great skills, I think the problem with him is that he still has a strong and misguided ego... I guess he needs a woman not many baby mamas... he is still young and this contact could either set him of chasing the wrong tails or there's a chance he gets level-headed... the first option is the one that happens often less hope is not his case

I don't think he is a bad dribbler he just needs to keep on developing... my concern is that he is far from level headed... which is good sometimes, but bad as often as he is... take more care of the ball dammit