Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[BlacJacMac]

Rubio has failed miserably twice and would be terrible with Rudy. We cannot have multiple non shooters.

Gobert was Rubio's best 2-man pairing in 2017-18 and was very positive again in 2018-19

[winforlose]

Rubio has failed miserably twice and would be terrible with Rudy. We cannot have multiple non shooters.

Gobert was Rubio's best 2-man pairing in 2017-18 and was very positive again in 2018-19

Fill in the blanks. Who else was on that team?

[BlacJacMac]

Rubio has failed miserably twice and would be terrible with Rudy. We cannot have multiple non shooters.

Gobert was Rubio's best 2-man pairing in 2017-18 and was very positive again in 2018-19

Fill in the blanks. Who else was on that team?

Does it matter? The two of them were terrific together. Just like Rubio and Jarrett Allen last year.

Rubio is a "non-stretch" big's best friend. Even more-so for a guy like Gobert who has questionable hands and really needs precise placement of passes to thrive.

[Klomp]

The why is Dlo is expiring. For example Simmons bad contract is a problem for Brooklyn so they get the freedom to move on and sign a free agent. We get a project with better upside. Of course I hate this move. But it is an example.

Bingo.

Simmons is in the category of 1-for-1 possibilities, as hard as it might be to stomach for some. A few other possibilities....

Jamal Murray - Obviously a dream scenario and probably not realistic, but money conscious management may try to rid themselves of long-term money if not high in the standings.
Chris Paul - Probably not realistic because of his leadership, but the money would work.
Kyle Lowry - I know that second year looks ugly, but the start of this year has been ugly for Russell too and Lowry has a history with Finch.
Kevin Love - Doesn't address PG need here, but could help rebounding issue. Add in a swap of Rubio and maybe Wendell Moore after December to help at PG.

Simmons is a dead contract at this point. Lowry and Paul room our franchise (quite likely permanently as the team is far more likely to move than recover.) Rubio has failed miserably twice and would be terrible with Rudy. We cannot have multiple non shooters.

The key question is whether other teams value Dlo beyond an expiring. Can they salvage him? If yes then combined with KAT the Wolves could improve. If not, your breaking Dlo into smaller pieces and likely get worse. TC killed us when he signed Knight and Rivers to the open roster spots without thinking about the PG depth. Additionally we lack high energy on ball defense and rebounding. V8 for a salary exemption was bad. The overpay of an unprotected 27 instead of top 5 protected and the 29 in any capacity also bites us here. Rudy has a ton of value, but Utah couldn’t simply keep him and the competition likely wasn’t offering this level of value. A blatant overpay which limits us.

1. Rubio has never failed miserably and he and Gobert went 48-34 and 50-32 in their two seasons together in Utah.
2. Breaking someone into smaller pieces does not mean they would get worse. It's exactly what Dallas did last season and look how they responded after the trade.
3. Vanderbilt was not added for a trade exception. Utah needed him in order to accept the trade. Where the trade exception was created was by including Bolmaro to make the salary-matching legal, which allowed us to then create the trade exception.
4. It is far too early to make any grandiose statement about the 2027 or 2029 draft picks, or on whether or not the trade was an overpay or worthwhile.

[TimberKat]

Maybe it's time for a DLo for Westbrook trade to protect the salary slot. Conley sounds good but don't see how that could happen. Would want more than Hield. Should be a quality starter. I would keep Towns over Durant right now because of age. Will be another round of interesting conversation after 20 games in.

[theGreatRC]

I'd do DLO for Ben in a heartbeat, most are down on Ben, but I still believe he is an amazing player.

The spacing would be a nightmare, though.

[winforlose]

Maybe it's time for a DLo for Westbrook trade to protect the salary slot. Conley sounds good but don't see how that could happen. Would want more than Hield. Should be a quality starter. I would keep Towns over Durant right now because of age. Will be another round of interesting conversation after 20 games in.

Dlo for Westbrook means that we lose the salary slot and then some. First, Dlo is making 31 and Westbrook 47. Even if the league let us take the extra 16 (it doesn’t,) we would then be over the hardcap. Essentially we would need to trade Prince or Anderson and someone else, and I still doubt the money works. It might need to be both. All of that for a player who the Lakers just benched. Oh, and the real kicker, he is an expiring. The salary slot is lost when Westbrook expires. Unless of course your using the savings of losing Anderson combined with the limited cap space from Dlo to try and create free agent room, which still wouldn’t be enough to compete for a starting PG, especially in a bad free agent year.

To protect the salary slot means to pay one or more players the same money Dlo would be making next year. This is how we can operate above the cap but under the hard cap (unless we bypass the hard cap next year,) next year. If you still have questions I can try and explain it better. Though I did lay it out pretty well in one of the threads.

[minimus]

Is Jalen Suggs really a bad player?

Very much.

He's shockingly unskilled for a smallish guard.

He's a single-speed, straight line player that looks awful driving to the basket. Not a good shooter and he turns it over more than he assists.

The defense seems for real though.

I think very best case is he ends up a poor man's Marcus Smart.

ORL have not been good at the beginning of season. I know they have no reason to trade Suggs, but I'd ask whether he is available.

[BlacJacMac]

Is Jalen Suggs really a bad player?

Very much.

He's shockingly unskilled for a smallish guard.

He's a single-speed, straight line player that looks awful driving to the basket. Not a good shooter and he turns it over more than he assists.

The defense seems for real though.

I think very best case is he ends up a poor man's Marcus Smart.

ORL have not been good at the beginning of season. I know they have no reason to trade Suggs, but I'd ask whether he is available.

I'd probably send him to the GLeague for the year. He needs to completely overhaul his game if he doesn't want to be a bust. And I don't think he can do that on a Playoff contender.

[IceManBK1]

https://nbaanalysis.net/2022/11/03/nba-trade-rumors-los-angeles-lakers-minnesota-timberwolves-dangelo-russell-russell-westbrook-karl-anthony-towns-anthony-edwards/2/

Interesting trade idea. It'd be nice if this trade could happen. Westbrook+2 firsts for dlo, Anderson and Prince.

[Domejandro]

https://nbaanalysis.net/2022/11/03/nba-trade-rumors-los-angeles-lakers-minnesota-timberwolves-dangelo-russell-russell-westbrook-karl-anthony-towns-anthony-edwards/2/

Interesting trade idea. It'd be nice if this trade could happen. Westbrook+2 firsts for dlo, Anderson and Prince.

I would absolutely do it, but Los Angeles could probably get more value with those two firsts (I think, at least).

[Neeva]

Yep no brainer to do that trade. I’ll pack DLO’s bags.

[younggunsmn]

I think that Russell is so bad that he should be waived or asked to sit out, so I'd do that in a heartbeat.
Rather keep Prince though. Anderson can go give his minutes to Naz.
It's no secret to the Lakers that D-Lo sucks though.

Russ may suck now but at least he can give more resistance on defense than a lamppost.

[winforlose]

Again, you guys do realize we don’t own our pick this year. Who are you gonna replace Prince with, or Anderson. This move doesn’t leave a lot of money to play with. That problem will also exist next year. You lose the salary slot for nothing, you lose 3 rotation players for an inferior player with a toxic attitude who will likely rub off on Ant (Ant already has a ball hog and ignore the coach mentality.) All so we can ditch Dlo. Dlo in a good night was a life saver last year. Hell he pretty much bailed out KAT in the play in game. You really want to sabotage the team 8 games into the season with 3 unprotected picks, a unprotected swap, and a top 5 protected pick hanging over our heads in 5 of the next seven years? My God you must hate Dlo if your willing to gut our bench for the Lakers 27 and 29 picks.

[Klomp]

Again, you guys do realize we don’t own our pick this year. Who are you gonna replace Prince with, or Anderson. This move doesn’t leave a lot of money to play with. That problem will also exist next year. You lose the salary slot for nothing, you lose 3 rotation players for an inferior player with a toxic attitude who will likely rub off on Ant (Ant already has a ball hog and ignore the coach mentality.) All so we can ditch Dlo. Dlo in a good night was a life saver last year. Hell he pretty much bailed out KAT in the play in game. You really want to sabotage the team 8 games into the season with 3 unprotected picks, a unprotected swap, and a top 5 protected pick hanging over our heads in 5 of the next seven years? My God you must hate Dlo if your willing to gut our bench for the Lakers 27 and 29 picks.

I agree with the general sentiment here.

However, you are overreacting because no trade is going to happen in real life just because some fan boys floated an idea on a hack "analysis" site so you don't have to worry about it. Nothing is sabotaging the team 8 games into the season.

I don't think a Westbrook trade is the correct option, but I also think it's naive to talk about Russell as if he has no issues with his performane.

[Domejandro]

Kyrie has nuked himself for orbit. I stand corrected, I actually thought he wouldn't blow a press conference where he announces giving $500,000 to charity.

As a note, I'm making a public plea to you guys. The General Board is on fire and I also took on the responsibility of moderating the unhinged Wiretap comment section. Please don't post anti-Semitic stuff defending Kyrie, I can't handle any more.

[BlacJacMac]

No worries. I could never defend Kyrie.

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

No worries. I could never defend Kyrie.

Read on Twitter

No one should ever defend Kyrie. Put aside the recent nonsense and the antivax stuff, he is just plain mental. Didn’t he once argue the earth was flat?

[winforlose]

Again, you guys do realize we don’t own our pick this year. Who are you gonna replace Prince with, or Anderson. This move doesn’t leave a lot of money to play with. That problem will also exist next year. You lose the salary slot for nothing, you lose 3 rotation players for an inferior player with a toxic attitude who will likely rub off on Ant (Ant already has a ball hog and ignore the coach mentality.) All so we can ditch Dlo. Dlo in a good night was a life saver last year. Hell he pretty much bailed out KAT in the play in game. You really want to sabotage the team 8 games into the season with 3 unprotected picks, a unprotected swap, and a top 5 protected pick hanging over our heads in 5 of the next seven years? My God you must hate Dlo if your willing to gut our bench for the Lakers 27 and 29 picks.

I agree with the general sentiment here.

However, you are overreacting because no trade is going to happen in real life just because some fan boys floated an idea on a hack "analysis" site so you don't have to worry about it. Nothing is sabotaging the team 8 games into the season.

I don't think a Westbrook trade is the correct option, but I also think it's naive to talk about Russell as if he has no issues with his performane.

I am just trying to dramatize the point to make them understand. Dlo isn’t good, but for an expiring he isn’t that bad. Giving up Prince (who is under contract next year unguaranteed,) and Anderson (who is on a reasonable deal next year,) while hard capped and trying to avoid the luxury tax is just plain silly. We would have 13 players and any vet minimum likely puts us in the tax. Our rotation would be Nowell, Ant, MCD, KAT, and Rudy. Our second line would be JMAC, Westbrook, Rivers, Knight and Naz. Even staggered this would be a train wreck.

[twolves31]

Again, you guys do realize we don’t own our pick this year. Who are you gonna replace Prince with, or Anderson. This move doesn’t leave a lot of money to play with. That problem will also exist next year. You lose the salary slot for nothing, you lose 3 rotation players for an inferior player with a toxic attitude who will likely rub off on Ant (Ant already has a ball hog and ignore the coach mentality.) All so we can ditch Dlo. Dlo in a good night was a life saver last year. Hell he pretty much bailed out KAT in the play in game. You really want to sabotage the team 8 games into the season with 3 unprotected picks, a unprotected swap, and a top 5 protected pick hanging over our heads in 5 of the next seven years? My God you must hate Dlo if your willing to gut our bench for the Lakers 27 and 29 picks.

Not that the trade would happen but Gobert, Towns, Ant, Jaden, Mclaughlin, Minott, and Moore are signed for about 100 million next season if the salary cap is 134 million next year you would have about 34 million if you renounced Westbrook, Nowell, and Prince. If you dumped Minott and Moore off on teams for nothing you could have about 37 million in cap space next summer. I believe after using up that 37 million you can also use the mle after that. Of course signing another huge contract this Summer would make the luxury tax bills in a few years very high.