If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[Farhan0311]

Looking at it objectively it's hard to argue with Mobley, but I'm taking cade first anyway. The feel for the game to be a superstar is there. But he straight up has to become a better 3pt shooter and get to the line more.

Shooting? How about finishing. Dude is taller and longer than Green yet shoots 54% within 0-3 ft while Green a smaller.guard shoots 69% within 0-3 ft.

[Farhan0311]

I can't speak for everyone, but I could care less about Green's efficiency. It's obvious he's a good scorer.

I'm singling him out for being Trae Young level bad on defense. And even then, nobody is ranking him any lower than 5. Mostly higher.

How is he Trae Young level bad at defense?

His opponent fg% is 2% less than league average.

Off-ball, bruv. He looks lost. Your statistic also says absolutely nothing about who he's guarding. Most NBA player's are capable of playing man defense. An athlete like Green, even now, I'm sure has a possession or 2 every game where it looks like he's locking someone down. This isn't the 90's where you're only responsible for one man on defense tho.

Trae Young was an exaggeration, but isn't that far off.

sincerely how many games of Green have you watched. I can exactly tell you his actual weakness which is switch defense and guarding forwards and centers.

[jasonxxx102]

1. Mobley


2. Cade
3. Franz
4. Barnes



5. Green


Mobley stands way above the rest in my eyes. I think 2-4 are interchangeable right now. I don’t believe Green will ever be a winning player in this league. Scores points, but his efficiency isn’t great and he gets lit up by opposing guards on a nightly basis.

He gets lit up by opposing guards?

This is what I hate about judging defense. Casual fans who don't follow a team just go on past reputation. You do know Green averages 2% points below league average for fg% of opposing player being guarded right?

Also inefficient? Compared to who exactly at his age who is tasked to take majority of their attempts unassisted? Cade? Barnes? You know his scoring efficiency actually is considerably higher than those guys right? So what are you exactly referring to as "low efficiency" for a 20 year old sophomore guard?

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

[Farhan0311]

1. Mobley


2. Cade
3. Franz
4. Barnes



5. Green


Mobley stands way above the rest in my eyes. I think 2-4 are interchangeable right now. I don’t believe Green will ever be a winning player in this league. Scores points, but his efficiency isn’t great and he gets lit up by opposing guards on a nightly basis.

He gets lit up by opposing guards?

This is what I hate about judging defense. Casual fans who don't follow a team just go on past reputation. You do know Green averages 2% points below league average for fg% of opposing player being guarded right?

Also inefficient? Compared to who exactly at his age who is tasked to take majority of their attempts unassisted? Cade? Barnes? You know his scoring efficiency actually is considerably higher than those guys right? So what are you exactly referring to as "low efficiency" for a 20 year old sophomore guard?

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

And what are you using? Defensive efficiency or +/- that has immense noise and confounding factors from level of team play?

Green is a good defender for a 20 year old guard which is a good on ball defender on a team full of 20 year olds who don't know how to communicate and work in unison yet leading to being out of position occasionally when guarding off ball. I don't know a 20 year old guard who doesn't have that issue especially on a bad team full of other young players.

[Farhan0311]

1. Mobley


2. Cade
3. Franz
4. Barnes



5. Green


Mobley stands way above the rest in my eyes. I think 2-4 are interchangeable right now. I don’t believe Green will ever be a winning player in this league. Scores points, but his efficiency isn’t great and he gets lit up by opposing guards on a nightly basis.

He gets lit up by opposing guards?

This is what I hate about judging defense. Casual fans who don't follow a team just go on past reputation. You do know Green averages 2% points below league average for fg% of opposing player being guarded right?

Also inefficient? Compared to who exactly at his age who is tasked to take majority of their attempts unassisted? Cade? Barnes? You know his scoring efficiency actually is considerably higher than those guys right? So what are you exactly referring to as "low efficiency" for a 20 year old sophomore guard?

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

Anyways why aren't you laughing at the actual absurd talking point from the guy I replied to that ranked Green low for being inefficient when he has a 5 percentage pt lead in ts% over Cade and Barnes both and a similar ts% to Franz?


No need to include Mobley's ts%. He's a Rudy Golbert type scorer as of now as can be seen by his unassisted fgm % which is around 25%. Hardly any self creation ability there.

[jasonxxx102]

He gets lit up by opposing guards?

This is what I hate about judging defense. Casual fans who don't follow a team just go on past reputation. You do know Green averages 2% points below league average for fg% of opposing player being guarded right?

Also inefficient? Compared to who exactly at his age who is tasked to take majority of their attempts unassisted? Cade? Barnes? You know his scoring efficiency actually is considerably higher than those guys right? So what are you exactly referring to as "low efficiency" for a 20 year old sophomore guard?

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

And what are you using? Defensive efficiency or +/- that has immense noise and confounding factors from level of team play?

Green is a good defenders for a 20 year old guard which is a good on ball defender on a team full of 20 year olds who don't know how to communicate and work in unison yet.

He’s not good “for a 20 year old”. I know you had to qualify that as an excuse.

He’s straight up lost half the time. No idea where he is on the court, has no idea how to play a proper zone, ball watches half the time, gets blown by too often because he’s either not watching his assignment or flat footed…

I don’t need a metric to tell me how bad he is when I can just watch a see.

But if you like the all in one metrics darko has him ranked as the single worst defensive player in the NBA, EPM has him 22nd percentile, CTG has him 4th percentile in defensive on/off, RAPTOR has him as the 8th worst defensive player.

He’s a terrible defensive player. That’s the simple reality

[Farhan0311]

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

And what are you using? Defensive efficiency or +/- that has immense noise and confounding factors from level of team play?

Green is a good defenders for a 20 year old guard which is a good on ball defender on a team full of 20 year olds who don't know how to communicate and work in unison yet.

He’s not good “for a 20 year old”. I know you had to qualify that as an excuse.

He’s straight up lost half the time. No idea where he is on the court, has no idea how to play a proper zone, ball watches half the time, gets blown by too often because he’s either not watching his assignment or flat footed…

I don’t need a metric to tell me how bad he is when I can just watch a see.

But if you like the all in one metrics darko has him ranked as the single worst defensive player in the NBA, EPM has him 22nd percentile, CTG has him 4th percentile in defensive on/off, RAPTOR has him as the 8th worst defensive player.

He’s a terrible defensive player. That’s the simple reality

You are either a Rocket fan who really was pushing for Evan or you barely watch Rocket games and are speaking out of your ass in terms of your observations.

I refuse to believe a non Rocket fan actually watches a 20-30 win pace team consistently enough to make observations about level of defensive play. Young players also show inconsistency in level of defense game in and game out. So if you are just sporadically watching Rocket games probably only when your favorite team plays them, I doubt you have the observational sample size.

And again any advanced defensive stats will have immense amount of confounding factors based on the team around him. Hence the isolation towards a stat that measures individual defense on ball which removes more confounding factors.

[TheHartBreakKid]

Mobley, Cade, Barnes, Green, in that order. As a far early redrafts go, I'm very comfortable with that top 4. And as far as draft classes go, it's rare that the top 4 picks are actually the top 4 prospects a year and a half later.

It gets interesting after that though.

[jasonxxx102]

And what are you using? Defensive efficiency or +/- that has immense noise and confounding factors from level of team play?

Green is a good defenders for a 20 year old guard which is a good on ball defender on a team full of 20 year olds who don't know how to communicate and work in unison yet.

He’s not good “for a 20 year old”. I know you had to qualify that as an excuse.

He’s straight up lost half the time. No idea where he is on the court, has no idea how to play a proper zone, ball watches half the time, gets blown by too often because he’s either not watching his assignment or flat footed…

I don’t need a metric to tell me how bad he is when I can just watch a see.

But if you like the all in one metrics darko has him ranked as the single worst defensive player in the NBA, EPM has him 22nd percentile, CTG has him 4th percentile in defensive on/off, RAPTOR has him as the 8th worst defensive player.

He’s a terrible defensive player. That’s the simple reality

You are either a Rocket fan who really was pushing for Evan or you barely watch Rocket games and are speaking out of your ass in terms of your observations.

I refuse to believe a non Rocket fan actually watches a 20-30 win pace team consistently enough to make observations about level of defensive play. Young players also show inconsistency in level of defense game in and game out. So if you are just sporadically watching Rocket games probably only when your favorite team plays them, I doubt you have the observational sample size.

And again any advanced defensive stats will have immense amount of confounding factors based on the team around him. Hence the isolation towards a stat that measures individual defense on ball which removes more confounding factors.

So then prove me wrong with film.

And YouTube highlights of steals and blocks doesn’t count.

I can pull 100 different clips of him ball watching and giving up wide open 3s or getting blown by

[KazuoOda]

Read on Twitter

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Give Mobley a couple years to bulk up. Don't think any center will be able to match him.

[yoyoboy]

Mobley in his 2nd year is leading the #1 defense in the league, surrounded by a lot of guys people peg as terrible defenders logging significant minutes, like Mitchell, Garland, LeVert, and Love. And yet people are totally ignoring that harping on his lack of bucketz.

[Farhan0311]

Mobley in his 2nd year is leading the #1 defense in the league, surrounded by a lot of guys people peg as terrible defenders logging significant minutes, like Mitchell, Garland, LeVert, and Love. And yet people are totally ignoring that harping on his lack of bucketz.

Are you completely ignoring the other defensive anchor on the team?

The Rockets when they selected Green started a rebuild from scratch. Imagine Mobley on the Rockets. Those sexy defensive stats wouldn't be there. The Rockets with that many young dudes isn't going to rank high in defensive efficiency even with Mobley right. That's a given. So that means the Rockets would draft a guy who you can't brag about how much impact he's having on an elite defense while being on a team with no first option and having 75% of his fgm assisted on a team with no competent playmaker.

Mobley and the Rockets org would have been eaten alive by the media then because the Rockets then would have drafted a player who won't be a number one option on a team that desperately needed one while not being able to show the defensive ability like he now where his defenders can say he's leading a number one defensive team. That simply just wouldn't happen on the Rockets, a team full of 19 and 20 year olds.

I think we can at least say the Rockets for why they needed and the Cavs got who they needed.

Jabari Smith is a good example of a defensive type anchor being drafted in a bad team. His defensive skills aren't going to show up yet on a crap team full of other young dudes so he kinda goes under the radar.

[QingJames]

1 - Evan Mobley
2 - Scottie Barnes
3 - Franz Wagner
4 - Cade Cunningham
5 - Jalen Green
6 - Alperen Sengun
7 - Josh Giddey
8 - Herb Jones

Before anyone says anything about having Franz so high, know that I was closer to putting him ahead of Barnes than behind Cade. I kind of want to put Green over Cade too, but I'm not quite there. Sengun/Giddey/Jones are hard to rank against each other because they are so different.

The first two I just don't see as players you can build an offense around unlike Green. He is collapsing defenses consistently and is starting to find the open man he consistently generates. Barnes has strength but dude hardly ever collapses defenses as he doesn't create much seperation and defenses don't care to close him out as he isn't a shooter. And I don't need an explanation why Mobley can't be a number one option. Look at his unassisted scoring rate. It's like 25% which is Rudy Golbert level of self creation.

The defensively-deficient probing perimeter scoring chucker combo guard archetype does not garner postseason success in the modern NBA.

Green will likely never be as good as Ja, Booker, Mitchell, etc. And you are going nowhere with that type of player as your best player, as we have repeatedly seen over the past decade.

Green may win a scoring title. He might average 32ppg and 5apg in his prime, wouldn’t doubt it. But he’s more likely to have the impact of a Bradley Beal on the Rockets’ win rate. Mobley likely already has a greater impact on winning that Green ever will. Won’t make that case for Barnes yet because he’s been terrible this year.

[Farhan0311]

1 - Evan Mobley
2 - Scottie Barnes
3 - Franz Wagner
4 - Cade Cunningham
5 - Jalen Green
6 - Alperen Sengun
7 - Josh Giddey
8 - Herb Jones

Before anyone says anything about having Franz so high, know that I was closer to putting him ahead of Barnes than behind Cade. I kind of want to put Green over Cade too, but I'm not quite there. Sengun/Giddey/Jones are hard to rank against each other because they are so different.

The first two I just don't see as players you can build an offense around unlike Green. He is collapsing defenses consistently and is starting to find the open man he consistently generates. Barnes has strength but dude hardly ever collapses defenses as he doesn't create much seperation and defenses don't care to close him out as he isn't a shooter. And I don't need an explanation why Mobley can't be a number one option. Look at his unassisted scoring rate. It's like 25% which is Rudy Golbert level of self creation.

The defensively-deficient probing perimeter scoring chucker combo guard archetype does not garner postseason success in the modern NBA.

Green will likely never be as good as Ja, Booker, Mitchell, etc. And you are going nowhere with that type of player as your best player, as we have repeatedly seen over the past decade.

Green may win a scoring title. He might average 32ppg and 5apg in his prime, wouldn’t doubt it. But he’s more likely to have the impact of a Bradley Beal on the Rockets’ win rate. Mobley likely already has a greater impact on winning that Green ever will. Won’t make that case for Barnes yet because he’s been terrible this year.

Ja definitely is a player Green would have to show even more accelerated improvement in playmaking especially if he ever wants to get near the potential of Ja.

But Booker and Mitchell?!? You gotta explain that one bro. How were Mitchell and Booker better than Green at 20? To be fair to Mitchell, you can't really compare him to 20 year old Green as he isn't even in the league at that age.

[Farhan0311]

. Mobley likely already has a greater impact on winning that Green ever will. Won’t make that case for Barnes yet because he’s been terrible this year.

Sincere question. How much impact on winning would Mobley have on this Rockets squad?

[reanimator]

When Cade went out with the shin injury, Green had a lower TS%. Pretty dishonest to compare a 12 game sample vs someone still active.

[hippesthippo]

He gets lit up by opposing guards?

This is what I hate about judging defense. Casual fans who don't follow a team just go on past reputation. You do know Green averages 2% points below league average for fg% of opposing player being guarded right?

Also inefficient? Compared to who exactly at his age who is tasked to take majority of their attempts unassisted? Cade? Barnes? You know his scoring efficiency actually is considerably higher than those guys right? So what are you exactly referring to as "low efficiency" for a 20 year old sophomore guard?

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

And what are you using? Defensive efficiency or +/- that has immense noise and confounding factors from level of team play?

Green is a good defender for a 20 year old guard which is a good on ball defender on a team full of 20 year olds who don't know how to communicate and work in unison yet leading to being out of position occasionally when guarding off ball. I don't know a 20 year old guard who doesn't have that issue especially on a bad team full of other young players.

Hoollld up.

You just quoted me and told me that I was wrong and that off ball defense isn't his weakness, it's switching onto bigger players. So now you admit he's also terrible off ball.

To answer your question from earlier: I've watched 2 Rockets games this year. Nobody can watch everything and the Rockets are pretty far down my watch list, but that was enough to see that Green has a ton of upside, is an obviously good scorer, and is terrible on defense; which is all I've said about Green. No more, no less.

[KenoP13]

Taking into account Jalen Greens "defense" He might become the next Jabari Parker.

[Farhan0311]

When Cade went out with the shin injury, Green had a lower TS%. Pretty dishonest to compare a 12 game sample vs someone still active.

What about their rookie season of 60+ games. There is a 5% difference in ts%

[Farhan0311]

Calls people casuals who don’t watch games

Uses dfg% against as a measure of good or bad defense

The jokes write themselves

And what are you using? Defensive efficiency or +/- that has immense noise and confounding factors from level of team play?

Green is a good defender for a 20 year old guard which is a good on ball defender on a team full of 20 year olds who don't know how to communicate and work in unison yet leading to being out of position occasionally when guarding off ball. I don't know a 20 year old guard who doesn't have that issue especially on a bad team full of other young players.

Hoollld up.

You just quoted me and told me that I was wrong and that off ball defense isn't his weakness, it's switching onto bigger players. So now you admit he's also terrible off ball.

To answer your question from earlier: I've watched 2 Rockets games this year. Nobody can watch everything and the Rockets are pretty far down my watch list, but that was enough to see that Green has a ton of upside, is an obviously good scorer, and is terrible on defense; which is all I've said about Green. No more, no less.

Thanks for acknowledging you have 2 games of watching Green.