If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#241 » by TheLand13 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 4:49 am

Scalabrine wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
Considering that he was the most impactful defender in the league for multiple years I think it still holds some weight. Do you not agree that it's a narrative driven award?


Joakim Noah won the damn thing.

So no.


I don't understand your point. Care to elaborate? Joakim Noah was an MVP candidate one or two years.


Eh, not really. He did get first team all NBA but in no way was he a serious candidate. But more importantly, he wasn’t really part of any big narrative that season, nor was he considered a well liked player by the general NBA public.

Tim Duncan retired with 0 DPOYs. I think we can safely say it’s not a narrative driven award.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#242 » by Scalabrine » Mon Dec 5, 2022 5:03 am

TheLand13 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
Joakim Noah won the damn thing.

So no.


I don't understand your point. Care to elaborate? Joakim Noah was an MVP candidate one or two years.


Eh, not really. He did get first team all NBA but in no way was he a serious candidate. But more importantly, he wasn’t really part of any big narrative that season, nor was he considered a well liked player by the general NBA public.

Tim Duncan retired with 0 DPOYs. I think we can safely say it’s not a narrative driven award.


I think we're just not on the same page here at all. Tim Duncan not having any DPOY's proves my point. He's on a small market team that didn't get a ton of coverage or have a ton of media members to ramp up a narrative.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2014.html
Jo Noah was 4th in voting in 2012-13. HE didn't have any 1st place votes but he had 322 total votes, next closest was James Harden with 85. He was definitely in the conversation. Which again, he played in a massive market with a ton of media attention. I know Jo hated Cleveland, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#243 » by TheLand13 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 5:08 am

Scalabrine wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
I don't understand your point. Care to elaborate? Joakim Noah was an MVP candidate one or two years.


Eh, not really. He did get first team all NBA but in no way was he a serious candidate. But more importantly, he wasn’t really part of any big narrative that season, nor was he considered a well liked player by the general NBA public.

Tim Duncan retired with 0 DPOYs. I think we can safely say it’s not a narrative driven award.


I think we're just not on the same page here at all. Tim Duncan not having any DPOY's proves my point. He's on a small market team that didn't get a ton of coverage or have a ton of media members to ramp up a narrative.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2014.html
Jo Noah was 4th in voting in 2012-13. HE didn't have any 1st place votes but he had 322 total votes, next closest was James Harden with 85. He was definitely in the conversation. Which again, he played in a massive market with a ton of media attention.


Yeah but everyone knew who Duncan was. It’s not like him being great was a secret.

I wasn’t aware that Noah had that many MVP votes. I definitely agree that MVPs can be narrative driven, but I don’t think it’s based necessarily on the market. Just look at some of the most recent MVP players we’ve had and factor in the market. Hell, LeBron won two of them while playing in Cleveland.

You and I are on the same page in regards to MVPs. But I just don’t see it for DPOY.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#244 » by OrlMagic05 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 2:28 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
I'm fine if you put Wagner 4, he's awesome.

He's not a better player or prospect than Mobley/Cade/Barnes, it's just that simple.

He's a really good player and that's not a slight but not a single GM in the league is taking Franz over any of those 3 guys
I couldn't imagine any GM taking Barnes over Franz. Last year we had posters claiming no GM would take Suggs and Wagner for Barnes.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app


I'll just leave this here...head to head...couldn't imagine huh?!

Scottie 17pts - 14rb - 4ast - 1bl

Franz 9pts - 1rb - 1ast - 0bl


I'll just leave this here... Season Averages..

Scottie- 14ppg 7rebs 5ast FG45% 3pt33%
Franz- 19ppg 4rebs 4 asts FG49% 3pt 33%
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#245 » by Roger Murdock » Mon Dec 5, 2022 4:43 pm

I think its difficult to rank the top 5 guys because there is so much uncertainty outside of Mobley and Franz.

Mobley to me has to be #1 just because the floor for him seems pretty well defined as an all-star caliber all defensive guy. Its a near lock he becomes a taller, better Bam Adebayo type in his prime with further upside as like a Boston KG or more. Not much of a stretch to get there. If he really fleshes out his shooting, or passing, he could be one of the three best players in the league, I doubt he gets there, but thats the stretch goal. He seems like a lock to be a top-30 guy who fits any team and offers a skillset that is extremely rare and hard to replace.

Franz looks like a great do it all player with size, flexibility, shooting, passing, etc. He seems pretty clearly destined to be a high end starter at the worst. I'm not sure I ever see star top 20 player potential in him but think hes a winning player on any team and seems likely to be a 3-5 time all star.

Cade has the player archtype but hes a worse athlete than any other one man army types in the NBA with worse handle and passing feel than the others. Everyone wants the Luka Doncic type player but whats his peak? Someone slightly better than a rookie Luka? That ain't winning you titles. If Cade ends up being a 28/7/7 type guy in his prime he's obviously the #1 guy but I think he needs to improve every facet of his game to get there and I'm not sure he can.

Jalen Green should end up being one of the best scorers in the NBA but needs to expand his game outside of that. Hes a little further behind than I expected him to be at this point.

Barnes is a ball of clay. He could end up being the best player and is in a great spot but his lack of development this season is concerning.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#246 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 5:28 pm

76ciology wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Also notice that post ups are declining?

F and Cs generate consistent hight TS% offense back then, but this gets less and less that if you watch todays bigs like Jokic, Embiid or even Wembayama they now all play like guards.

Nowadays guards can generate high volume of pts with high TS% consistently when the playoffs has become just a PnR and ISO contest, unlike the old days where you need to have Duncan and Shaq and was a post-up contest


You’re essentially saying “it’s different this time” and yet the best players on most of the best title contending teams are the same archetype of elite 2 way forward / big.

Trae is the best volume scoring guard in the leagu who plays no defense who also gives you elite playmaking, surrounded by great defensive players and the Hawks still aren’t very good.

The only team you could really argue is Booker w/ Phoenix.


A lot of defense depends on your team.

Look at Gobert is right now and how bad he is looking on defense. Early in the season Sixers was playing bad defense with Embiid, then suddenly Sixers was like the 2nd best defensive team once Harden and Maxey sat out because of injury.

Look at Iverson or Isaiah Thomas was when he’s averaging 30 in the playoffs, but Celts/Sixers find a way to play defense around him.

Defense is very important, but you have multiple ways to deal with it via schemes and structuring your roster.

But you can’t win with Jordan Clarkson battling Kevin Durant in a tit for tat show iso scoring contest in the playoffs.


First off, Gobert is still one of the best defensive players in the league. Not sure how you figure he's looking bad on defense, the Wolves defense is 6.5pts better with him on the floor, their problem is he's an offensive black hole. Sure, it's not as good as it was in Utah but the Wolves traded away all their decent defenders so yea it makes sense but he's not bad by any stretch.

You're just making my point for me.

IT for all his flash on offense was brutal defensively and the Celtics weren't real contenders for that exact reason. His best season they got wiped easily by the Cavs. So no they didn't make it work.

AI is the 100th percentile outcome of undersized, inefficient, no defense, guard. It is unlikely that we will ever see another player like AI, he's the exception to the rule. He had to average basically 35 points a game on near 40% usage to drag that team to the finals and let's be real, they had absolutely no chance to beat the Lakers. It's not even like they blew through the EC either, they had 2 drawn out 7 game series against teams that weren't all that good.

You can only scheme around a bad defender if they are a willing and able team defender. You cannot scheme around a guy who lacks the defensive awareness. People called Curry a bad defender for the longest time and while it's true he's not a lock down on-ball defensive player he's highly intelligent off ball and plays well within a scheme.

A guy like Jalen Green is just lost. Effort is something that can be improved over time and he obviously has the athleticism to be decent but he has no clue what he's doing on the court. Just watch him when the rockets play a high zone he gives up a wide open 3 pretty much every possession by ball watching and being out of position. You're either aware on the court or you're not, you don't learn that over time. So unless he has basically all time great offense (highly unlikely) he's never going to be THAT guy.

I've asked every single Jalen defender in this thread to pull the film that shows even an average level of defensive awareness and not a single person has pulled any clips.

Here are just a few to highlight from a single game. It's not like there are some mental lapses sometimes, he's bad all the time

lazy defense right here leading to a poor contest and bucket
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/02/0022200334/17/75b3abc1-bf40-9adf-b0e4-f8ecbc9b5165_1280x720.mp4
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/02/0022200334/20/cb6ab1dc-51fb-0bfc-fc64-fd6689c24038_1280x720.mp4

Stuck in no mans land leading to a wide open corner 3
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/02/0022200334/52/8a7edbd1-7999-8b4f-6e41-ee0613d011d6_1280x720.mp4

flat footed and absolutely no effort to get around the screen
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/02/0022200334/336/4822ac2a-885f-6a81-f805-b504393da48f_1280x720.mp4

late / bad closeout leading to wide open 3
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/02/0022200334/349/26e5249d-2ca9-9304-b980-9303ec7bcae6_1280x720.mp4

What is he even doing here?
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2022/12/02/0022200334/474/349040d8-6b70-12e8-5970-07026ebd1fe9_1280x720.mp4

You get the point
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#247 » by toooskies » Mon Dec 5, 2022 5:53 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:I think its difficult to rank the top 5 guys because there is so much uncertainty outside of Mobley and Franz.

Mobley to me has to be #1 just because the floor for him seems pretty well defined as an all-star caliber all defensive guy. Its a near lock he becomes a taller, better Bam Adebayo type in his prime with further upside as like a Boston KG or more. Not much of a stretch to get there. If he really fleshes out his shooting, or passing, he could be one of the three best players in the league, I doubt he gets there, but thats the stretch goal. He seems like a lock to be a top-30 guy who fits any team and offers a skillset that is extremely rare and hard to replace.

Franz looks like a great do it all player with size, flexibility, shooting, passing, etc. He seems pretty clearly destined to be a high end starter at the worst. I'm not sure I ever see star top 20 player potential in him but think hes a winning player on any team and seems likely to be a 3-5 time all star.

Cade has the player archtype but hes a worse athlete than any other one man army types in the NBA with worse handle and passing feel than the others. Everyone wants the Luka Doncic type player but whats his peak? Someone slightly better than a rookie Luka? That ain't winning you titles. If Cade ends up being a 28/7/7 type guy in his prime he's obviously the #1 guy but I think he needs to improve every facet of his game to get there and I'm not sure he can.

Jalen Green should end up being one of the best scorers in the NBA but needs to expand his game outside of that. Hes a little further behind than I expected him to be at this point.

Barnes is a ball of clay. He could end up being the best player and is in a great spot but his lack of development this season is concerning.

Just want to say that early career performance isn't guaranteed to lead to progress. A frequently mention that Mobley might have a Marcus Camby career, where it looks like he's the evolutionary next big man until he goes a few years being very good without significant progress. I don't see that as likely for Mobley, but I also can't rule it out.

Another "bad" case is that he doesn't develop into an Anthony Davis type because the modern game has trouble accommodating two big men, and no one in Cleveland wants to move Jarrett Allen. So he never develops offensively since he can't effectively attack inside. Still might reach defensive MVP heights, but the offense only develops to where he's making fewer mistakes... Prime Al Horford level perhaps? (Which is still a multi-time all-star.)
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#248 » by QingJames » Mon Dec 5, 2022 6:28 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:...
You get the point


Great post, thought I'd echo it with some more evidence of Green's glaring lack of defensive awareness.

Ballwatching, so he loses Collins as he switches with Hunter, leading to a wide-open 3:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=234UDF&isw=t

Capela doesn't even really set a screen here, but Green is nevertheless unable to navigate it and gives Trae a good look while also fouling him (uncalled):
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23NvyD&isw=t

Trapped badly on a Collins screen:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23ui8z&isw=t

Bad, aggressive steal attempt leading to a foul:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=232uCg&isw=t

Trae takes off and Jalen takes a couple seconds too long to react because he's ballwatching:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23k2ZW&isw=t

What is he doing so far from his man??
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23sPWH&isw=t

Caught easily on a Capela screen:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23KvJj&isw=t

Green has no idea what he's supposed to be doing on this switch:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23YhNx&isw=t

Chases Clarke to the basket even though Sengun is down there and Mclemore has already come over to help. Green gives up a wide open 3 for Tyus Jones:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=234zK7&isw=t

This is really more of a bad look for the entire Rockets team, with 4 guys running directly under the basket for the defensive board and nobody boxing out. But what exactly is Green doing here running over when he was in position to chase a long rebound (which is what happened). At the end of the clip, you see Green give up another wide-open 3 for Tyus:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23rtMU&isw=t

Can't navigate a screen again:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23GD24&isw=t

Ballwatching, loses his man Konchar who is cutting behind, leading to an uncontested layup:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23Sc7L&isw=t

Ballwatching, leading to a lightly contested shot:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23AwjU&isw=t

Has no idea what he's doing here, giving up a wide-open shot to Carter who inexplicably waits an extra 2 seconds to brick it:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23oyz1&isw=t

Stupid, undisciplined off-ball foul here:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23wTvD&isw=t

Too slow to recover on this terrible screen navigation:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23Ygcb&isw=t

This isn't even a screen and he still seems to get stuck on it:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23Zhj5&isw=t

Ballwatching, leading to a wide-open 3 by a great 3 point shooter:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23xDnJ&isw=t

No idea here that he's supposed to switch:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23U1xF&isw=t

Leaves Markkanen open for... no reason?
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23fFUS&isw=t

Foiled by another screen:
https://the-high-low.com/video/ids?ids=23zLLu&isw=t

And I can go on and on and on. Now, I'll say that Green does his best defense 1-on-1 in space. He's passable using his length and speed in those situations. But he is an abjectly terrible defender on the whole because of his lack of defensive awareness and very poor off-ball play on that end of the court. I would not take Green in a re-draft over Franz or even Sengun, being honest. I would have to think long and hard about Trey Murphy and Herb Jones over Green as well. Green is one of those player archetypes that gets you right into fringe playoff treadmill team territory in his prime.
eyeatoma wrote:You guys still dont' get it. Playoff accomplishment don't matter when you're up for your 1st MVP. When you're up for your 3rd in a row, damn straight it matters, as the only ones who done it are top 15 players of all time who have won rings.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#249 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 5, 2022 6:36 pm

The focus on expecting young players to lead a team to a title is pretty goofy. The expectations were even out of whack for a player capable of it like LeBron. Most of these guys still have to prove they can help a team win.

The player/players in the draft who actually hit their ceiling may be completely off our radar right now.

Some improvement is reasonably predictable and some things a player is struggling with are relatively minor. We'd do better to focus on those things; rather than who looks most like a theoretical future FMVP.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#250 » by QingJames » Mon Dec 5, 2022 7:25 pm

JonFromVA wrote:The focus on expecting young players to lead a team to a title is pretty goofy. The expectations were even out of whack for a player capable of it like LeBron. Most of these guys still have to prove they can help a team win.

The player/players in the draft who actually hit their ceiling may be completely off our radar right now.

Some improvement is reasonably predictable and some things a player is struggling with are relatively minor. We'd do better to focus on those things; rather than who looks most like a theoretical future FMVP.


If you have a top 3 pick, you aren't drafting a guy to be a good roleplayer. You are obviously looking to draft a guy who you think has the best shot of developing into the best, most impactful player out of all the possible selections. It's not a question of expecting Mobley, Barnes, Franz, etc. to become the bonafide best player on a championship team.

The issue is looking at prospects before a draft and choosing the one who - even if he hits his 99th-percentile potential development - is exceedingly unlikely to be the best player on a championship team based on the last 25 years of NBA history, over a prospect who, if he hits his 99th-percentile potential development, is much more likely to be the best player on a championship team.

i.e. you don't draft a nodefense volume chucker over a uniquely mobile and skilled big man because the latter is going to be way more impactful if he develops well, while the former has a hard ceiling on how impactful he can be even if he has an extraordinarily great development outcome.
eyeatoma wrote:You guys still dont' get it. Playoff accomplishment don't matter when you're up for your 1st MVP. When you're up for your 3rd in a row, damn straight it matters, as the only ones who done it are top 15 players of all time who have won rings.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#251 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 8:14 pm

QingJames wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:The focus on expecting young players to lead a team to a title is pretty goofy. The expectations were even out of whack for a player capable of it like LeBron. Most of these guys still have to prove they can help a team win.

The player/players in the draft who actually hit their ceiling may be completely off our radar right now.

Some improvement is reasonably predictable and some things a player is struggling with are relatively minor. We'd do better to focus on those things; rather than who looks most like a theoretical future FMVP.


If you have a top 3 pick, you aren't drafting a guy to be a good roleplayer. You are obviously looking to draft a guy who you think has the best shot of developing into the best, most impactful player out of all the possible selections. It's not a question of expecting Mobley, Barnes, Franz, etc. to become the bonafide best player on a championship team.

The issue is looking at prospects before a draft and choosing the one who - even if he hits his 99th-percentile potential development - is exceedingly unlikely to be the best player on a championship team based on the last 25 years of NBA history, over a prospect who, if he hits his 99th-percentile potential development, is much more likely to be the best player on a championship team.

i.e. you don't draft a nodefense volume chucker over a uniquely mobile and skilled big man because the latter is going to be way more impactful if he develops well, while the former has a hard ceiling on how impactful he can be even if he has an extraordinarily great development outcome.


I think the problem with fans and even GMs is they significantly overrate "athletes". You see it multiple times in every draft players get over drafted because they're amazing athletes with +physical attributes. People convince themselves that player can develop all these crazy skills magically despite showing absolutely none of them.

People on here aren't nearly as bad as reddit so that's good but people project insane skill leaps from their favorite players just because. It's as if every lottery pick drafted by their favorite team is a Giannis or Kawhi in the rough

It's like "we have this guy who can't shoot and has poor awareness but he measured the best out of everyone at the combine" so take him over a more established, proven prospect who you don't think has the upside because "you can't teach measurables"

Bagley, Kuminga, Josh Jackson, Sekou Doumbouya of all players was drafted 15th. It was so obvious that guy was not a high level nba player and that's not even hindsight.

I could name countless others.... FOs and GMs get caught up in the hype as much as any fans do.
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#252 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 5, 2022 8:24 pm

QingJames wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:The focus on expecting young players to lead a team to a title is pretty goofy. The expectations were even out of whack for a player capable of it like LeBron. Most of these guys still have to prove they can help a team win.

The player/players in the draft who actually hit their ceiling may be completely off our radar right now.

Some improvement is reasonably predictable and some things a player is struggling with are relatively minor. We'd do better to focus on those things; rather than who looks most like a theoretical future FMVP.


If you have a top 3 pick, you aren't drafting a guy to be a good roleplayer. You are obviously looking to draft a guy who you think has the best shot of developing into the best, most impactful player out of all the possible selections. It's not a question of expecting Mobley, Barnes, Franz, etc. to become the bonafide best player on a championship team.

The issue is looking at prospects before a draft and choosing the one who - even if he hits his 99th-percentile potential development - is exceedingly unlikely to be the best player on a championship team based on the last 25 years of NBA history, over a prospect who, if he hits his 99th-percentile potential development, is much more likely to be the best player on a championship team.

i.e. you don't draft a nodefense volume chucker over a uniquely mobile and skilled big man because the latter is going to be way more impactful if he develops well, while the former has a hard ceiling on how impactful he can be even if he has an extraordinarily great development outcome.


We're a long ways from before the draft, we have actual video and performance data for these players against NBA players. We don't need to compare hypothetical outcomes.

There are skills that make a real difference on the floor, there are weaknesses that can be filled by teammates. If we see a path for a player to become a real difference maker, then that's who you should want for your team; and if you don't - just be happy with the player with the highest floor.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#253 » by Yuri Vaultin » Mon Dec 5, 2022 8:33 pm

I happen to think it is beyond moronic ("unfathomably stupid" seems apt) for any poster to talk definitively about any of these players, especially Jalen Green. The kid is only 20 and has yet to play with a point guard. He is still learning the game. Hell, one poster compared him to Clarkson. WTF? Comparing him to a guy 10 years older?

Some posters talk as if these young men are final products. Let's circle back 6 years from now. Sheesh.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#254 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 9:05 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:I happen to think it is beyond moronic ("unfathomably stupid" seems apt) for any poster to talk definitively about any of these players, especially Jalen Green. The kid is only 20 and has yet to play with a point guard. He is still learning the game. Hell, one poster compared him to Clarkson. WTF? Comparing him to a guy 10 years older?

Some posters talk as if these young men are final products. Let's circle back 6 years from now. Sheesh.


You’re right, so stupid to evaluate film and extrapolate that yo future skill development. I mean, what’s the point of watching games when life is just a 2K sim anyways. Just spend all your player points on skill development and in 5 years everyone is a 99

Hey Kevin Knox is 22. Someone told me he was KD-lite I mean he is young and it’s so stupid to say he’s a bad NBA player.

I am 100% confident you have no understanding of the bell curve of NBA player development. Not everyone can be a 99th percentile outcome.

It’s also pretty funny that the users who resort to name calling when you don’t think their favorite player is a future all time great are the ones who engage in the least amount of basketball discussion.
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#255 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Dec 5, 2022 9:10 pm

When you can’t dispute the hard evidence just call everyone stupid! 100% bulletproof strategy
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#256 » by K_chile22 » Tue Dec 6, 2022 1:39 am

Not trying to hate, he's going to be great in this league because his offense is better than advertised coming in, but I suggest people watch Scottie's defense a bit more critically. He's a smart team defender and tries but he's got some stuff hips and his on ball defense has not been good at all in the NBA
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#257 » by QingJames » Tue Dec 6, 2022 1:44 am

K_chile22 wrote:Not trying to hate, he's going to be great in this league because his offense is better than advertised coming in, but I suggest people watch Scottie's defense a bit more critically. He's a smart team defender and tries but he's got some stuff hips and his on ball defense has not been good at all in the NBA

Yeah I agree, he does have stiff hips. Definitely prevents him from being an effective on ball defender against guards. He’s better against bigger guys, but it is a big weakness for sure and I don’t think there’s really a fix for it.
eyeatoma wrote:You guys still dont' get it. Playoff accomplishment don't matter when you're up for your 1st MVP. When you're up for your 3rd in a row, damn straight it matters, as the only ones who done it are top 15 players of all time who have won rings.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#258 » by basketballRob » Tue Dec 6, 2022 4:42 am

PhilBlackson wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
I'm fine if you put Wagner 4, he's awesome.

He's not a better player or prospect than Mobley/Cade/Barnes, it's just that simple.

He's a really good player and that's not a slight but not a single GM in the league is taking Franz over any of those 3 guys
I couldn't imagine any GM taking Barnes over Franz. Last year we had posters claiming no GM would take Suggs and Wagner for Barnes.

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I'll just leave this here...head to head...couldn't imagine huh?!

Scottie 17pts - 14rb - 4ast - 1bl

Franz 9pts - 1rb - 1ast - 0bl
It was his 5th game in 7 nights and they rested him some.

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#259 » by Scalabrine » Tue Dec 6, 2022 6:02 am

TheLand13 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
Eh, not really. He did get first team all NBA but in no way was he a serious candidate. But more importantly, he wasn’t really part of any big narrative that season, nor was he considered a well liked player by the general NBA public.

Tim Duncan retired with 0 DPOYs. I think we can safely say it’s not a narrative driven award.


I think we're just not on the same page here at all. Tim Duncan not having any DPOY's proves my point. He's on a small market team that didn't get a ton of coverage or have a ton of media members to ramp up a narrative.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2014.html
Jo Noah was 4th in voting in 2012-13. HE didn't have any 1st place votes but he had 322 total votes, next closest was James Harden with 85. He was definitely in the conversation. Which again, he played in a massive market with a ton of media attention.


Yeah but everyone knew who Duncan was. It’s not like him being great was a secret.

I wasn’t aware that Noah had that many MVP votes. I definitely agree that MVPs can be narrative driven, but I don’t think it’s based necessarily on the market. Just look at some of the most recent MVP players we’ve had and factor in the market. Hell, LeBron won two of them while playing in Cleveland.

You and I are on the same page in regards to MVPs. But I just don’t see it for DPOY.


Then we're not on the same page. :lol:

You've been all over the place here. If you think LeBron, quite possibly the most popular player in NBA history, belongs in the discussion that we're having...then yeah... we're definitely not on the same page.

Can you explain why you think MVP is narrative driven and DPOY is NOT??? Because I for the life of me don't understand your reasoning at all...
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#260 » by Ralof » Tue Dec 6, 2022 10:47 am

#1:Mobley,not even a debate.

defensive generational talent,with upside to be good on offense

#2 :Cunningham

still believe can improve that 3 points shot,once he does that he's gonna be an amazing player

#3 : Barnes

he's uber solid,plays winning basketball,in the right situation could be an iguodala/green difference maker

#4 :Green

mhmhmm,the flashes all always there and are incredible,but about his biq...still a potential stud with unlimited scoring ability but...would like to see him in another situation,that for sure

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