PG: Julius "Steph Curry" Randle carries us once again

[thebuzzardman]

McBride did have 6 assists.

He can't get into the paint.

Watching the lineup of:

McBride
IQ
RJ
Obi
Shart

made me want to vomit.

Not one guy all that good at breaking down the defense, getting into the paint, no less making a contested layup.

He gets into his opponents space and
...disrupts. Love seeing him with Grimes on the floor....totally changes the defensive complexion of the team. So despite his current shortcomings (I think those will improve too)give me MORE of that please...

I don't mind McBride playing. I really don't like seeing him with IQ. Then RJ being out there makes me like it even less.

The criticism is the lineup Thibs put out there, not so much McBride or even the other players.

Of course, a lot of this blame is on the FO who managed to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to put together a squad where only 2 players can reliably create their own shot and one of them you don't really want dribbling TOO much (Randle)

McBride is fine at guard if he plays with Brunson or if the Knicks trade for a bench guard who can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket with success. Or a SF who does that.

[thebuzzardman]

I liked Ward but lets not pretend he wasn't one of the limiting factors (among several) that kept Ewing from a ring

John Starks going 2-18 in Game 7 was the limiting factor that kept Ewing from getting a ring, not to mention Scotty Sterling's idiot trades that sent the eventual rights to Scotty Pippin to Chicago (via Seattle) for Gerald Henderson and Juwann Oldham.

That's not fair. There wouldn't have been a Game 7 if it wasn't for Starks. And Ewing did not have a good series against Hakeem in that Finals. The biggest reason Ewing never got a ring imo was because of Jordan's greatness, Ernie Grunfeld's inability to get that second star and late career injuries.

I saw this got answered later. Agreed, Starks shot them into a game and then out of the other game and ultimately the ring.

I get that Duetta's point is that the Knicks didn't raise the quality of the team in general via bad handling of draft assets etc.

[thebuzzardman]

He can't get into the paint.

Watching the lineup of:

McBride
IQ
RJ
Obi
Shart

made me want to vomit.

Not one guy all that good at breaking down the defense, getting into the paint, no less making a contested layup.

Knicks were fortunate to playing Trae & Capella & The Atlanta G-League Affiliate Experience.

Otherwise, when moron Thibs went with that lineup for like 8 minutes end of 1st/into the 2nd quarter, Knicks would have been 15

That's true. And it's I trait I noticed he's had since he became a Knick. He does it when he plays for Westchester. Here's his PG interview. Tough questioning from Rebecca.

Read on Twitter

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Deuce moves the ball really well, which sounds simple but is important and not always easy to make the right pass at the right time.

Deuce stat of the day. He has a career assist to TO ratio of 6.9

Flurry of posts as I catch up again.

I think he's a solid player because of the defense if offers and his PG play is solid. The path to more minutes and maybe making IQ expendable begins with him hitting jumpers, but then he's still somewhat limited if he can't drive it, but that's ok for a backup PG.

Knicks have a lot of role players and they aren't as objectively awful as many on here go on about (me included). A lot of them would look a hell of a lot better with an offensive engine type at wing.

I guess if someone is an RJ fan, then it's Grimes that gets moved in the trade or he's moved to the bench
If someone thinks Grimes has the attributes that are better next to Brunson and he's just beginning his ascent, then moving RJ to another team or to the bench is the answer.

What will happen: FO will not accomplish getting such a player.

[thebuzzardman]

rj at the 4 is a terrible idea. he can't even guard 3s because hes too small. putting him at the 4 is putting him in a terrible position. just roll with cam at that point

Problem is that he’s not fast enough to guard 3s and definitely not 2s.

yea we're fked no matter what we do

Easier said than done, but:

Ditch Fournier, Cam, Rose, trade RJ and picks for a star wing. Problem solved.
Or RJ can backup 3/4 and play 28 mpg as a 6th/7th man.

[dakomish23]

Read on Twitter

I'm just so happy for this kid. Hopefully ppl realize this could be the norm and that's why you need to have patience.

[dakomish23]

McBride fan club the real winners.



Now bring Cam back in the mix and stop the nonsense Thibs

[3toheadmelo]

Problem is that he’s not fast enough to guard 3s and definitely not 2s.

yea we're fked no matter what we do

Easier said than done, but:

Ditch Fournier, Cam, Rose, trade RJ and picks for a star wing. Problem solved.
Or RJ can backup 3/4 and play 28 mpg as a 6th/7th man.

to be honest do we even have assets for a star? all of our youth has regressed and I can’t imagine RJ has any value with the way he’s been and he’s supposed to be our best young asset. seems to me we’re locked in for a era of mid. striking out on Mitchell will haunt us for a long time

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson
Grimes
Cam
Randle
Mitch

Should be the starting 5

[Ghetto Gospel]

yea we're fked no matter what we do

Easier said than done, but:

Ditch Fournier, Cam, Rose, trade RJ and picks for a star wing. Problem solved.
Or RJ can backup 3/4 and play 28 mpg as a 6th/7th man.

to be honest do we even have assets for a star? all of our youth has regressed and I can’t imagine RJ has any value with the way he’s been and he’s supposed to be our best young asset. seems to me we’re locked in for a era of mid. striking out on Mitchell will haunt us for a long time

would you take a chance on kawhi? one more knee injury and he might be available for our package

[3toheadmelo]

Easier said than done, but:

Ditch Fournier, Cam, Rose, trade RJ and picks for a star wing. Problem solved.
Or RJ can backup 3/4 and play 28 mpg as a 6th/7th man.

to be honest do we even have assets for a star? all of our youth has regressed and I can’t imagine RJ has any value with the way he’s been and he’s supposed to be our best young asset. seems to me we’re locked in for a era of mid. striking out on Mitchell will haunt us for a long time

would you take a chance on kawhi? one more knee injury and he might be available for our package

that’s a tough one because he’s been terrible this year. id probably pass. he looks cooked. one more injury and he’s gonna be the pistons t-mac

[hundreth]

The whole RJ thing is pretty perplexing. He's had stretches of great play, especially his sophomore season. He's regressed. Clearly most of his issues are mental and confidence related.

RJ has had and still does have potential to be a great player, it's just unclear if he'll ever conquer his mind. It isn't looking great. He should work with a sports psychologist and simplify what he's working on. He spent all this time over the summer working on shooting off the dribble when he should be working on just spot up shooting. He needs to be in the gym shooting 3s over and over until its muscle memory, and stop over thinking every movement.

[thebuzzardman]

yea we're fked no matter what we do

Easier said than done, but:

Ditch Fournier, Cam, Rose, trade RJ and picks for a star wing. Problem solved.
Or RJ can backup 3/4 and play 28 mpg as a 6th/7th man.

to be honest do we even have assets for a star? all of our youth has regressed and I can’t imagine RJ has any value with the way he’s been and he’s supposed to be our best young asset. seems to me we’re locked in for a era of mid. striking out on Mitchell will haunt us for a long time

Not sure, I doubt it'll be easy, and of course this FO lacks skill. So, probably not.

I'm not sure on the whole regression thing, just like I'm positive players values drop when they are benched. Teams employ like a half dozen full time guys just to assess players so I doubt some new book opens. Of course players can play and show they are BETTER, but I doubt they lost value when benched. Maybe a tiny bit of negotiating leverage in trade talks.

The above is more about Cam or IQ or McBride or Grimes and even Obi. I'd say Grimes MIGHT be raising his value, but he'll need to prove over a longer stretch. Sims probably increased his value a little but he's not fetching much, but maybe increased thrown in value some.

RJ has confirmed to scouts who weren't sold. I'd say he's losing value fast to teams that had scouts on the fence.
I doubt many teams were ever all that high on his upside, maybe seeing him as "solid", but even that is downgraded with the payday.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Deuce moves the ball really well, which sounds simple but is important and not always easy to make the right pass at the right time.

Deuce stat of the day. He has a career assist to TO ratio of 6.9

Flurry of posts as I catch up again.

I think he's a solid player because of the defense if offers and his PG play is solid. The path to more minutes and maybe making IQ expendable begins with him hitting jumpers, but then he's still somewhat limited if he can't drive it, but that's ok for a backup PG.

Knicks have a lot of role players and they aren't as objectively awful as many on here go on about (me included). A lot of them would look a hell of a lot better with an offensive engine type at wing.

I guess if someone is an RJ fan, then it's Grimes that gets moved in the trade or he's moved to the bench
If someone thinks Grimes has the attributes that are better next to Brunson and he's just beginning his ascent, then moving RJ to another team or to the bench is the answer.

What will happen: FO will not accomplish getting such a player.

Yea, Grimes and Deuce look like they can be good/decent role/complimentary players and they are on cheap contracts. Deuce isn't an engine and has his strengths and weakness. I would like to see him shoot 3s better, but otherwise hard to see him doing a lot more. He has been a positive in his role. Grimes has looked really good with his defense, and his shooting may come around too. They both pass pretty well, but not superstars that can carry the franchise. Grimes pairs pretty well with the starters and Deuce has provided a defensive spark off the bench. Its something positive, albeit small.

RJ is a different case imo. We just paid him and he has a poison pill until Jul 1. He has obviously played awful. Whether we want to keep or trade him, at this point we have to hope he plays better and gets out of his funk.

But in the right deal anyone on the team should be tradeable and if I could I would blow it all up.

[thebuzzardman]

The whole RJ thing is pretty perplexing. He's had stretches of great play, especially his sophomore season. He's regressed. Clearly most of his issues are mental and confidence related.

RJ has had and still does have potential to be a great player, it's just unclear if he'll ever conquer his mind. It isn't looking great. He should work with a sports psychologist and simplify what he's working on. He spent all this time over the summer working on shooting off the dribble when he should be working on just spot up shooting. He needs to be in the gym shooting 3s over and over until its muscle memory, and stop over thinking every movement.

He's playing below his ability but I don't see anything that speaks to potential to be a great player.

He's not a plus ball handler.
He's not agile driving the ball.
He's not extra creative, which is a problem because he's somewhat slow and lacks explosive leaping ability.
He's not shifty or possessing stop and start moves that might benefit a slower player.
He's strong, but because he lacks lift the ball gets blocked into his face somewhat often, though to be fair, at times he can muscle players on drives.
He drives into traffic in the worst Randlian fashion, which is showing either selfishness or lack of self awareness. So his Bball IQ isn't the greatest, at least in this regard, but otherwise is ok.
And he's not a knockdown 3 point shooter or even a good one - he's ok
And he really doesn't possess a mid range game.
Oh, he's an average at best defender.

This doesn't sound like a collection of future star attributes.

[Clyde_Style]

The whole RJ thing is pretty perplexing. He's had stretches of great play, especially his sophomore season. He's regressed. Clearly most of his issues are mental and confidence related.

RJ has had and still does have potential to be a great player, it's just unclear if he'll ever conquer his mind. It isn't looking great. He should work with a sports psychologist and simplify what he's working on. He spent all this time over the summer working on shooting off the dribble when he should be working on just spot up shooting. He needs to be in the gym shooting 3s over and over until its muscle memory, and stop over thinking every movement.

He's playing below his ability but I don't see anything that speaks to potential to be a great player.

He's not a plus ball handler.
He's not agile driving the ball.
He's not extra creative, which is a problem because he's somewhat slow and lacks explosive leaping ability.
He's not shifty or possessing stop and start moves that might benefit a slower player.
He's strong, but because he lacks lift the ball gets blocked into his face somewhat often, though to be fair, at times he can muscle players on drives.
He drives into traffic in the worst Randlian fashion, which is showing either selfishness or lack of self awareness. So his Bball IQ isn't the greatest, at least in this regard, but otherwise is ok.
And he's not a knockdown 3 point shooter or even a good one - he's ok
And he really doesn't possess a mid range game.
Oh, he's an average at best defender.

This doesn't sound like a collection of future star attributes.

As I've called RJ in the past a modular skills player he's a guy whose outcome is largely predicated on having an elite mindset in order to stay on track. Since he's not a natural at anything he does if he loses focus he goes off the rails pretty quickly. He's only as good as his concentration goes. Without it, all of those little building blocks he's worked on start to crumble and you're left with a pretty messy player. His head is not in the game this season and he has regressed. He does not exhibit muscle memory from repetition. He literally looks like he forgot how to play basketball. If he can't get his head on straight he's going to be a bench player by next season.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Meat]

I liked Ward but lets not pretend he wasn't one of the limiting factors (among several) that kept Ewing from a ring

John Starks going 2-18 in Game 7 was the limiting factor that kept Ewing from getting a ring, not to mention Scotty Sterling's idiot trades that sent the eventual rights to Scotty Pippin to Chicago (via Seattle) for Gerald Henderson and Juwann Oldham.

That's not fair. There wouldn't have been a Game 7 if it wasn't for Starks. And Ewing did not have a good series against Hakeem in that Finals. The biggest reason Ewing never got a ring imo was because of Jordan's greatness, Ernie Grunfeld's inability to get that second star and late career injuries.

stop bringing up our shared trauma yo

[Knicksfan1992]

McBride fan club the real winners.



Now bring Cam back in the mix and stop the nonsense Thibs

My completely uneducated guess is that they have a trade lined up for Cam already that they can't complete until December 15th and therefore are keeping him in bubble wrap until then. Doesn't make sense to not give him Obi's minutes otherwise.

We'll see on Friday if they stick to an 8 man rotation like it seems like they will if Obi is out.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Knicks are just a much more fun team to watch without RJ and Obi

Obi, RJ, Reddish and three picks for Shai

Fournier, Rose, Hart and a pick for Hield and Turner

Turner / Mitch
Randle / Melo
Grimes / Hield
Shai / Quickley
Brunson / Deuce

The fullest

[sol537]

1) Rose to CHI
2) Fournier to LAL or MIL
3) Cam for a late 1st (or two 2nds) and an expiring

Clean it up...