NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[eyeatoma]

So we will punish Jokic because some buffoons of the past decided to slight Lebron and Jordan?

I think it’s nonsense. Don’t let the mistakes that were made in the past change what’s happening in the present. I’m a Celtics homer so I love what Tatum is doing but Jokic is far more consistent and doing simply amazing things every single game. Voter fatigue might be the single most stupid thing surrounding sports these days.

How about ALl NBA? 1 center?

Not the best 5 players? The MVP runner up doesn't make the 1st team but we want to award a non NBA finalists a 3rd MVP. Yes they sounds completely logical.

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[JDR720]

The issue is the MVP award is about how a player did in a single season. Not a reflection of past or future seasons.

If Denver have the best record overall (plausible) and Jokic keeps putting up NBA2k stats (guaranteed) it'll be hard to not give him the MVP unless you base your criteria on things outside of this season.

[eyeatoma]

The issue is the MVP award is about how a player did in a single season. Not a reflection of past or future seasons.

If Denver have the best record overall (plausible) and Jokic keeps putting up NBA2k stats (guaranteed) it'll be hard to not give him the MVP unless you base your criteria on things outside of this season.

Giannis didn't win his 3rd because of this very reason.

[JDR720]

The issue is the MVP award is about how a player did in a single season. Not a reflection of past or future seasons.

If Denver have the best record overall (plausible) and Jokic keeps putting up NBA2k stats (guaranteed) it'll be hard to not give him the MVP unless you base your criteria on things outside of this season.

Giannis didn't win his 3rd because of this very reason.

Sure, but that doesn't make it right. Why punish players for the voters screwing up their previous ballots?

[eyeatoma]

The issue is the MVP award is about how a player did in a single season. Not a reflection of past or future seasons.

If Denver have the best record overall (plausible) and Jokic keeps putting up NBA2k stats (guaranteed) it'll be hard to not give him the MVP unless you base your criteria on things outside of this season.

Giannis didn't win his 3rd because of this very reason.

Sure, but that doesn't make it right. Why punish players for the voters screwing up their previous ballots?

Because this is the same board that says that ALL NBA should be position based, when it is not right to not have the top 5 players in all-nba. It's an antiquated system.

But apparently that needs to stay the same, but basically anything that benefits Jokic can easily change, because all times stats and carry job.

[Bob8]

The issue is the MVP award is about how a player did in a single season. Not a reflection of past or future seasons.

If Denver have the best record overall (plausible) and Jokic keeps putting up NBA2k stats (guaranteed) it'll be hard to not give him the MVP unless you base your criteria on things outside of this season.

Giannis didn't win his 3rd because of this very reason.

Giannis never dominated game like that. It's a big difference if you're averaging 10 assists or 6. Jokic is few levels better passer.

[eyeatoma]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

[Drakeem]

Lol at the top post making a call to advanced stats heads.

Way more objective and based in reality than anything you’d ever utter. Like i said in the previous thread: if Embiid tops Jokic on that list ill call him the MVP. Until then you can keep handicapping Jokic to appease your feelings.

Yeah has nothign to do with the fact that it props your boy up. What' sthe point of all these advanced stats, and being the stats king, when you can't get past the WCF?

Fair play. Tbh, we should rule out Embiid then bc not only has he not made it past the second round, he has had some putrid performances that led to these disappointments.

Tatum, by your logic, should be MVP. Luka > Embiid bc he made the conference finals with far less talent. Giannis won a ring so he has to be > Embiid.

[AussieCeltic]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

It’s both sides. It’s just that even with Jokic defensive liabilities, his offense is that good that he deserves the award.

You have Celtics fans, Bucks fans, Mavs fans - all who have an MVP candidate, saying that Jokic is probably leading right now. That’s not to say Embiid can’t win or won’t win, but right now, it probably has to be Jokic with Tatum, Giannis, Luka next in line.

Why can’t you just accept it? It’s just embarrassing for you. I would hate to see what you’re like in real life. I can imagine if something didn’t go right in your life you’d jump up and down like a kid who lost his toy.

[eyeatoma]

Way more objective and based in reality than anything you’d ever utter. Like i said in the previous thread: if Embiid tops Jokic on that list ill call him the MVP. Until then you can keep handicapping Jokic to appease your feelings.

Yeah has nothign to do with the fact that it props your boy up. What' sthe point of all these advanced stats, and being the stats king, when you can't get past the WCF?

Fair play. Tbh, we should rule out Embiid then bc not only has he not made it past the second round, he has had some putrid performances that led to these disappointments.

Tatum, by your logic, should be MVP. Luka > Embiid bc he made the conference finals with far less talent. Giannis won a ring so he has to be > Embiid.

Plenty of players have won the MVP without great playoff success. Embiid doesn't get disqualified because he's never won one lol. Tatum was not even close to Embiid in past years.

The point is Jokic. Already won 2, with no real playoff success except for when Murray carried him.

[eyeatoma]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

It’s both sides. It’s just that even with Jokic defensive liabilities, his offense is that good that he deserves the award.

You have Celtics fans, Bucks fans, Mavs fans - all who have an MVP candidate, saying that Jokic is probably leading right now. That’s not to say Embiid can’t win or won’t win, but right now, it has to be Jokic.

Why can’t you just accept it? It’s just embarrassing for you. I would hate to see what you’re like in real life. I can imagine if something didn’t go right in your life you’d jump up and down like a kid who lost his toy.

Thanks for that last piece. Really appreciated your insights on how I go about my life. Lol, This is like pot calling the kettle black.You bitch at me for being a homer, yet most on the GB are the biggest Jokic homers. You set all these rules for other players, but just because of Jokic's offensive brilliance nothing else counts. Should just call it the Jokic award at this point, as I don't see him losing the award till he retires, because the Nuggets are clueless and he'll continue to put up "numbers".

[Drakeem]

Yeah has nothign to do with the fact that it props your boy up. What' sthe point of all these advanced stats, and being the stats king, when you can't get past the WCF?

Fair play. Tbh, we should rule out Embiid then bc not only has he not made it past the second round, he has had some putrid performances that led to these disappointments.

Tatum, by your logic, should be MVP. Luka > Embiid bc he made the conference finals with far less talent. Giannis won a ring so he has to be > Embiid.

Plenty of players have won the MVP without great playoff success. Embiid doesn't get disqualified because he's never won one lol. Tatum was not even close to Embiid in past years.

The point is Jokic. Already won 2, with no real playoff success except for when Murray carried him.

Idc how many he won. He could have 10 of them, and I'm going to judge him based on his current year's performance vs his peers.

I still find it funny that you critique someone's "lack of playoff success" when the player you're arguing for has yet to make a conference finals, has been on the wrong side of the upset personally, and has been locked up by Lopez, Gasol, and Horford, to the point where Philly signed Horford as a way to get him away from opposing teams.

Imagine giving a guy an MVP where his own team had to buy out his defensive competition LOL.

[Bob8]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

Has anyone, who dominates only in D chances to be in top 10 in MVP? Of course not. MVP was always about the offensive side.

It really doesn't matter how good Jokic is in D, if he totally dominates and his team is first in standings. It looks to me that his D is good enough.

The only questionable part of current discussion is forgetting how close teams in reality are in the West.

[AussieCeltic]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

It’s both sides. It’s just that even with Jokic defensive liabilities, his offense is that good that he deserves the award.

You have Celtics fans, Bucks fans, Mavs fans - all who have an MVP candidate, saying that Jokic is probably leading right now. That’s not to say Embiid can’t win or won’t win, but right now, it has to be Jokic.

Why can’t you just accept it? It’s just embarrassing for you. I would hate to see what you’re like in real life. I can imagine if something didn’t go right in your life you’d jump up and down like a kid who lost his toy.

Thanks for that last piece. Really appreciated your insights on how I go about my life. Lol, This is like pot calling the kettle black.You bitch at me for being a homer, yet most on the GB are the biggest Jokic homers. You set all these rules for other players, but just because of Jokic's offensive brilliance nothing else counts. Should just call it the Jokic award at this point, as I don't see him losing the award till he retires, because the Nuggets are clueless and he'll continue to put up "numbers".

I’m a Jokic homer yet my fav player is Tatum on my fav team the Celtics and is fav with the bookies to be MVP? Makes a whole lot of sense.

I think you need to take a look in the mirror and maybe wonder why Jokic is a back to back MVP and why everyone likes him. Maybe you are the person who is wrong. I mean at some point, you have to realise this right?

[iggymcfrack]

Love to see Joker getting his just due with the new vote!!! Honestly I don’t see how you can have a ballot that doesn’t start with Jokic 1 and Tatum 2 at this point. They’ve both separated themselves from the rest of the league but Jokic is much further from Tatum than Tatum is from the rest of the pack.

[Mick Dundee]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award?

It is not.

But Jokic appears to be the only true Basketball Genius we've ever seen.

That's the only way one can explain how a completely unathletic 7-Footer dominates the game as a perfect offensive Nucleus in a otherwise mediocre Team to the Point where Defense becomes almost obsolete.

How else can one explain to me how the Nuggets are leading the Western Conference despite having one of the worst Defensive Ratings in the League?

That being said, I am completely with you when it comes to All-Time Ratings and Sorts.

Those kinda talks are a waste of time right now.

Jokic won't even go down as the greatest Foreign Player ever, unless he manages to lead his Team to at least one Championship.

Dirk and Pau are still way ahead of both him and Joel in that regard.

Edit: Dirk, Pau and Giannis of course ...

[ITYSL]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

Defense should definitely be considered for sure. The thing is, Jokic's gap over any other MVP candidate on offense is wider than their gap over him on defense.

Also, considering your support for Embiid, you can't reasonably mention lack of playoff success as an argument against Jokic. Embiid has never made it out of the 2nd round.

Actually, given your supposed criteria in this thread that you're using to argue against Jokic (offense + defense + playoff success) you should be supporting Tatum or Giannis for MVP.

[eyeatoma]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award?

It is not.

But Jokic appears to be the only true Basketball Genius we've ever seen.

That's the only way one can explain how a completely unathletic 7-Footer dominates the game as a perfect offensive Nucleus in a otherwise mediocre Team to the Point where Defense becomes almost obsolete.

How else can one explain to me how the Nuggets are leading the Western Conference despite having one of the worst Defensive Ratings in the League?

That being said, I am completely with you when it comes to All-Time Ratings and Sorts.

Those kinda talks are a waste of time right now.

Jokic won't even go down as the greatest Foreign Player ever, unless he manages to lead his Team to at least one Championship.

Dirk and Pau are still way ahead of both him and Joel in that regard.

Edit: Dirk, Pau and Giannis of course ...

An offensive genius. He seems to do a great
job knowing when to take over. Would rather involve his teammates first and then if it's not working take over.

That being said it's not sustainable in the playoffs and limits for effective this team can be.

If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

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[eyeatoma]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award? Why are we not counting defense?

The game is played on both sides of the ball.

There should just be an offensive player of the year award, that way Jokic can win every year. At this point, that's what this is. Completely forgetting the defensive side of the ball.

Defense should definitely be considered for sure. The thing is, Jokic's gap over any other MVP candidate on offense is wider than their gap over him on defense.

Also, considering your support for Embiid, you can't reasonably mention lack of playoff success as an argument against Jokic. Embiid has never made it out of the 2nd round.

Actually, given your supposed criteria in this thread that you're using to argue against Jokic (offense + defense + playoff success) you should be supporting Tatum or Giannis for MVP.

You guys keep saying that about Embiid with playoff success. He's never won MVO, so doesn't require it like someone could win 3. Also he's consistently gotten to the 2nd round. That's fine for a first time MVP winner. Giannis is in contention but is having a down year. Tatum is too but isn't as good an offensive player or defender compared to Embiid this year.

That being said Tatum has team record going for him.

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[Exp0sed]

All I got to say, is why is the MVP an offensive player of the year award?

An offensive genius. He seems to do a great
job knowing when to take over. Would rather involve his teammates first and then if it's not working take over.

That being said it's not sustainable in the playoffs and limits for effective this team can be.

If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

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lol, Nash was one of the worst defenders in the league
by the eye test or whatever possible method you can dream of

Jokic certainly has specific defensive limitations by in other ways - elite defensive rebounding, incredible positioning, hand-eye coordination, great hands and general stellar basketball I.Q has been consistently very impactful as a defender

he leads the league (again) in steals from the Center position and leading the Nuggets to the best defense in the clutch (jk about that last part )

he is also better than Nash offensively both as a playmaker and as a scorer

how disingenius can u be to bring up Nash whose literally the worst defender to have ever won an MVP

edit: and those 2 MVP's are probably universally the among the most questionable MVP awards ever handed out

The Nuggets are considerably better with Jokic on the court defensively than they are without him
year after year after year

he won't win any Dpoy soon that's for sure but this Nash analogy is laughable