is Klay done?

zhuangcorp · Post #141 » by **zhuangcorp** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:57 am

Klay playing much better when he is not trying to get 30 points a game. Just take the shots that are made available to you without forcing it.

Impuniti · Post #142 » by **Impuniti** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:40 am

zhuangcorp wrote:Klay playing much better when he is not trying to get 30 points a game. Just take the shots that are made available to you without forcing it.

This. Even when he shot like **** if he could sort out the shot selection, it would make a world of difference. As long as he doesn't put himself above the team with the shots, things should look good even if he doesn't shoot like prime Klay.

DonaldSanders · Post #143 » by **DonaldSanders** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:21 am

I recognize this Klay.

That other guy really confused me. I can handle some decline but selfish ball that isn't Warrior ball from Klay was bizarre. I'm glad that phase is over and Klay looks better now than last year, wonder if year 2 post injury is working in our favor now.

zhuangcorp · Post #144 » by **zhuangcorp** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:51 am

DonaldSanders wrote:I recognize this Klay.

That other guy really confused me. I can handle some decline but selfish ball that isn't Warrior ball from Klay was bizarre. I'm glad that phase is over and Klay looks better now than last year, wonder if year 2 post injury is working in our favor now.

I'm actually surprised how good the Warriors were last season with Klay playing rather poorly. The past few games of Klay are indeed better than last year Klay.

But apart from Klay, Warriors bench seems worse. JP is about 20% of last year. Kuminga and Moody haven't really filled the gap at backup SF. J. Green is shooting way worse than expected. and Wiseman is out of rotation.

wco81 · Post #145 » by **wco81** » Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:39 am

Klay is shooting well vs. the Celtics but he's still drifting when he jumps.

He had one wing jumper over a contest where he caught and shot and had nice vertical lift, no drift.

But then on a fast break situation, he dribbled across half court, pulled up uncontested and it was really off and he couldn't stop on a dime and jump straight up to prevent the momentum from affecting his shot.

It may be that he's got some discomfort if he plants hard to stop drifting forwards or sideways so he's got in the habit of not pulling up under control.

Or maybe there's something psychological to testing or really stressing whichever foot or knee has the Achilles tear or the ACL.

He can still make some shots occasionally when he's drifting but obviously not as often as jumping up straight more.

Obviously if we can see it on TV, the coaches and the players are aware of it. But they have to live with it, not playing won't help him recover.

wco81 · Post #146 » by **wco81** » Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:58 am

So he injured his right ACL and left Achilles.

If they were both on one side, he would be able to adjust more easily to any pain/discomfort.

Right handed players would normally plant the left foot and gather the right leg toward the left and then jump. But he jumps with his leg spread too, which I don't recall him doing pre-injury.

People have already noticed the flatter trajectory of the shot, often hitting the front rim.

This game he was 14-26 and 4-11. Several of the shots were pretty ugly and he forced some. But nobody else on the Warriors can hit 30 as frequently, other than Curry. Sure Wiggins is shooting really well and has had some big games shooting from 3. But Klay has a bigger track record, so when they need a big shot, after Curry, who do you want to shoot it?

GunnerWRX · Post #147 » by **GunnerWRX** » Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:49 pm

He’s much more focused tonight. No brain lapses. Took on Tatum as well. Best game of his season by far!

He needs to always play with Draymond and Steph, who know where to find him, and especially when *not* to pass to him.

Whenever Klay takes no dribble, or 1 dribble - open shot - he’s at his best. Whenever you see Klay takes 2 dribbles, and into a lane with defenders, I don’t have the stats but I’d bet the offensive rating of that possession suddenly drops to below 90 ortg.

Klay physically is back for sure. Need to get him to focus and play the right way offensively.

Big J · Post #148 » by **Big J** » Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:36 pm

Klay playing poorly early in the year was always about him not playing in the summer and getting into game shape. It takes months to get into the condition needed to play at a high level in the NBA.

superunknown · Post #149 » by **superunknown** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:51 am

he's not done, but he's playing the dumbest BBQ he's ever played and this, RIGHT NOW, makes his contract more disastrous than JP's.
he's a 4 times champion, a future first ballot HoF, he needs to get his **** together and play in a way that helps the team, not kills it.
he's not playing the right way, regardless of how many points he scores or the % from the field. he's also not playing like a veteran, rather like a rookie with no leadership and sense of accountability whatsoever.
we have a losing record, we're down the best player in the world for some time and another very serviceable starter, it's time to step up not to be dumb.

Impuniti · Post #150 » by **Impuniti** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:06 am

The idea that someone needs to talk to Klay about he plays at 32 is pretty telling about the way he's been playing. Klay has less game self awareness than guys in their early 20s about what needs to happen in the game right now.

zhuangcorp · Post #151 » by **zhuangcorp** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:37 am

I thought everybody was saying he would be back to form by January. Well January is pretty close, and I don't see how the holiday season is going to help his form.

DonaldSanders · Post #152 » by **DonaldSanders** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:38 am

Klay looks like a lot of mid/late 30s guys do when they are fading (though he's 32 with those injuries he sometimes looks older) -- some nights they can roll back the clock for a vintage performance, but many nights their legs look dead. It hurts seeing Klay play like this

His midrange game is awful, he takes the bait on those way too much.

And sometimes like tonight he just looks disinterested... I just don't get it.

Impuniti · Post #153 » by **Impuniti** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:29 am

zhuangcorp wrote:I thought everybody was saying he would be back to form by January. Well January is pretty close, and I don't see how the holiday season is going to help his form.

Because stans think with their heart rather than their head. Half of Klay's issues are not even the fact that he was out injured for 2 1/2 years and then magically came back in the starting lineup to coddle his ego, or that he can't play as well defensively as he used to.

He plays dumb, lazy basketball. I wonder if anyone can name 3 worse contracts in the entire league than his right now.

SpreeChokeJob · Post #154 » by **SpreeChokeJob** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:55 am

Klay’s a mimbo too, but at least he used to have skills Poole could only dream of. The current Klay is a bench spot up three point shooter. Kerr needs to pull him aside and give him the Open Court it’s time speech. He can still have a role as a spot up shooter, but the days of him doing what he used to doesn’t look like it’s coming back no matter how obstinate he is about it.

Watch on YouTube

watch1958 · Post #155 » by **watch1958** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:57 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:Klay’s a mimbo too, but at least he used to have skills Poole could only dream of. The current Klay is a bench spot up three point shooter. Kerr needs to pull him aside and give him the Open Court it’s time speech. He can still have a role as a spot up shooter, but the days of him doing what he used to doesn’t look like it’s coming back no matter how obstinate he is about it.

Watch on YouTube

Yep. He can be a valuable catch & shoot for a long time, but the overall style of the team needs to be different. I am unsure what that will be, but Poole playing the way he is makes it tougher.

ILOVEIT · Post #156 » by **ILOVEIT** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:27 pm

What I'm seeing with all the vets is no interest in hustling full 48 minutes in regular season games. Klay is often drifting on defense...leaving his assignments. Shakes his head and points to himself "my bad". But really it's "eh...not that dedicated to an entire game." Curry's the most motivated still because he is playing with house money after finals MVP. The rest just don't have that same energy.

ILOVEIT · Post #157 » by **ILOVEIT** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:28 pm

BTW....doesn't Klay look like the PERFECT sixth man?

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #158 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:51 am

ILOVEIT wrote:BTW....doesn't Klay look like the PERFECT sixth man?

Only when he plays with Draymond or Curry or maybe Iguodala and Looney. I don't feel like the young guys know what to do with Klay yet.

Don't pass the Ball to Klay when he is not open. Be wary of passing the ball to Klay inside against good interior defense.
You really want Draymond running the offense for Klay while Curry warps the defense.

Klay may have lost his 1 on 1 defensive athelicism but Klay still knows Warrior systems better than the young guys do so Klay tends to rotate correctly and clog the right holes.

Maybe 37 point quarrter Klay could be the bench gunner / 1st option on the bench unit but in general your Jamal Crawford type bench unit 1st option needs to be a guy that you can pass to when he is not open. Klay is a bad passer. Poole can be passed to when he is not open but Poole was not doing well at running the bench unit offense as the point guard. Draymond helps Poole. Maybe Divencenzo can run the bench unit offense once he is more experienced at playing with the Warriors players.

In general I think playing Draymond and Wiggins with Poole on the Bench unit is the right move but that makes Draymond and Wiggins play less minutes with the Curry, Klay, Looney starters group. Curry off the ball also needs Draymond.

Wiggins gives Poole another scoring threat. Warriors have not had the Big man short drives offense since David Lee so the Warriors might not be utilizing Kuminga and Wiseman well enough to make them bench unit scoring threats.

Klay's cuts to the basket and short drives need to be created by defensive breakdowns. Curry is the guy that creates defensive breakdows, and Draymond is the guy that reliably passes to the the man that Curry created chaos got open via defensive breakdowns. Klay spots defenfensive breakdowns quickly and does know where to run to to take advantage of a defensive breakdowwn.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #159 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:51 am

The klay of old is done, but he isnt done as a basketball player.

He needs to start playing like Reddick or even kerr. Embrace the new role. That still has value.

wco81 · Post #160 » by **wco81** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:08 am

Klay still has detractors -- haters? -- on the board, especially now that some role players have being playing well and shooting the 3 pretty well.

Currently DDV, Lamb and Jerome are all shooting 38% or above, well above their career averages, especially DDV.

Klay is taking more 3PAs per game than DDV, Lamb and Jerome combined and shooting 37.5%.

If those 3 are still shooting above 38% by April, by all means give them more 3PAs and minutes in the postseason.

But I'm guessing the team will rely on Klay to take the second highest volume of 3s on the team until it's proven that they can get better shooting elsewhere.