Jaylen Brown Discussion Thread - New and Improved!

[JaMarco]

Brown's 3pt shot is officially broken. Feels like he bricks every single 3 now.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

[zoyathedestroya]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

He’s become a very dynamic scorer.

He’s also third in field goal attempts. That’s wild to me considering there are numerous capable scorers in the league and he’s already playing alongside someone with the 2nd most attempts in the league. Which just means their teammates are left to share the scraps in terms of shots (then fans unironically complain why our role players can’t be more consistent on offense including a 20-pt scorer in Brogdon).

Hard to complain when the result is the best record in the league but at some point in the playoffs, Cs will need the contributions of the “others”. Imo, it’s on the Jays (and Joe) to involve them more. Brogdon in particular needs a more defined role and steady diet of shots/touches even in the clutch.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

This is one area of improvement. If he is usually the end point of the team's ball movement, he's got to knock down more of these catch-and-shoot threes. Or better yet, make the extra pass some.

[BK_2020]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

He's 12th in points per game, 13th in points per 36, 13th in points per 75.

In the top 15 in points per game, there are only 2 players with worse scoring efficiency than Jaylen: Ja and Trae, who obviously have different responsibilities within their offenses.

[165bows]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

He’s become a very dynamic scorer.

He’s also third in field goal attempts. That’s wild to me considering there are numerous capable scorers in the league and he’s already playing alongside someone with the 2nd most attempts in the league. Which just means their teammates are left to share the scraps in terms of shots (then fans unironically complain why our role players can’t be more consistent on offense including a 20-pt scorer in Brogdon).

Hard to complain when the result is the best record in the league but at some point in the playoffs, Cs will need the contributions of the “others”. Imo, it’s on the Jays (and Joe) to involve them more. Brogdon in particular needs a more defined role and steady diet of shots/touches even in the clutch.

I agree they need better play-making from their top 2, esp. Jalen, but I think the order is also somewhat reversed here. The Js need to take so many shots because their role guys aren't dynamic scorers at all.

Very few of the rest of the team are good rim scorers, so the other team can protect the basket with one average guy. Most of the team has only 1-2 shot types that can be created for them, and one of those is the wide-open layup on a cut to the basket. The other being the open three.

My guess is a big part of what happened to the drive and kick three point machine is that teams realized the could stay home on shooters and just not collapse that much.

[zoyathedestroya]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

He’s become a very dynamic scorer.

He’s also third in field goal attempts. That’s wild to me considering there are numerous capable scorers in the league and he’s already playing alongside someone with the 2nd most attempts in the league. Which just means their teammates are left to share the scraps in terms of shots (then fans unironically complain why our role players can’t be more consistent on offense including a 20-pt scorer in Brogdon).

Hard to complain when the result is the best record in the league but at some point in the playoffs, Cs will need the contributions of the “others”. Imo, it’s on the Jays (and Joe) to involve them more. Brogdon in particular needs a more defined role and steady diet of shots/touches even in the clutch.

I agree they need better play-making from their top 2, esp. Jalen, but I think the order is also somewhat reversed here. The Js need to take so many shots because their role guys aren't dynamic scorers at all.

Very few of the rest of the team are good rim scorers, so the other team can protect the basket with one average guy. Most of the team has only 1-2 shot types that can be created for them, and one of those is the wide-open layup on a cut to the basket. The other being the open three.

My guess is a big part of what happened to the drive and kick three point machine is that teams realized the could stay home on shooters and just not collapse that much.

I can’t agree with this assessment.

Brogdon was among the top drivers in the league last season playing with lesser players. White was in the 75th percentile as a PnR ballhandler with heavier frequency before we traded for him. Grant and Smart are great postup options esp after creating mismatches. Rob will always be a threat at the dunker spot. Even Hauser can occasionally pump-and-drive or fake and pull up from midrange.

We just don’t get to see the rest of the skillset cos of our heavy reliance on our top two scorers.

[165bows]

He’s become a very dynamic scorer.

He’s also third in field goal attempts. That’s wild to me considering there are numerous capable scorers in the league and he’s already playing alongside someone with the 2nd most attempts in the league. Which just means their teammates are left to share the scraps in terms of shots (then fans unironically complain why our role players can’t be more consistent on offense including a 20-pt scorer in Brogdon).

Hard to complain when the result is the best record in the league but at some point in the playoffs, Cs will need the contributions of the “others”. Imo, it’s on the Jays (and Joe) to involve them more. Brogdon in particular needs a more defined role and steady diet of shots/touches even in the clutch.

I agree they need better play-making from their top 2, esp. Jalen, but I think the order is also somewhat reversed here. The Js need to take so many shots because their role guys aren't dynamic scorers at all.

Very few of the rest of the team are good rim scorers, so the other team can protect the basket with one average guy. Most of the team has only 1-2 shot types that can be created for them, and one of those is the wide-open layup on a cut to the basket. The other being the open three.

My guess is a big part of what happened to the drive and kick three point machine is that teams realized the could stay home on shooters and just not collapse that much.

I can’t agree with this assessment.

Brogdon was among the top drivers in the league last season playing with lesser players. White was in the 75th percentile as a PnR ballhandler with heavier frequency before we traded for him. Grant and Smart are great postup options esp after creating mismatches. Rob will always be a threat at the dunker spot. Even Hauser can occasionally pump-and-drive or fake and pull up from midrange.

We just don’t get to see the rest of the skillset cos of our heavy reliance on our top two scorers.

You don't have to agree but the fact is that I am right. None of those guys (outside of Brogdon) scores even 15 ppg per 36 minutes, a basic mark for a guy that can score with volume. They work because they all have spots where they work well on offense, but my point is that those spots are very limited in scope. White's per minute scoring was higher in SA but he wasn't efficient playing that role, and those were bad teams with him having to do that much scoring because again his scoring skill set is limited.

They desperately needed any of those guys to step up and show some scoring in the finals, but against a (very) good D with the Js sputtering, they were absolutely nowhere to be found. They all work great in their niches but they work because they have volume scoring with solid efficiency with Jaylen and Tatum is elite. The front court can't create shots to save their life and the back court are mediocre at creating their own offense.

[BK_2020]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

He’s become a very dynamic scorer.

He’s also third in field goal attempts. That’s wild to me considering there are numerous capable scorers in the league and he’s already playing alongside someone with the 2nd most attempts in the league. Which just means their teammates are left to share the scraps in terms of shots (then fans unironically complain why our role players can’t be more consistent on offense including a 20-pt scorer in Brogdon).

Hard to complain when the result is the best record in the league but at some point in the playoffs, Cs will need the contributions of the “others”. Imo, it’s on the Jays (and Joe) to involve them more. Brogdon in particular needs a more defined role and steady diet of shots/touches even in the clutch.

I agree they need better play-making from their top 2, esp. Jalen, but I think the order is also somewhat reversed here. The Js need to take so many shots because their role guys aren't dynamic scorers at all.

Very few of the rest of the team are good rim scorers, so the other team can protect the basket with one average guy. Most of the team has only 1-2 shot types that can be created for them, and one of those is the wide-open layup on a cut to the basket. The other being the open three.

My guess is a big part of what happened to the drive and kick three point machine is that teams realized the could stay home on shooters and just not collapse that much.

In last night's game there were at least 50 possessions where Jaylen held the ball for a long time, looking menacing and glaring at the defender, dribbled a lot, then jacked up a jumper or lost the ball or passed to a safety valve with 1 second left on the clock. No matter how limited Jaylen's teammates are, it's not unreasonable to think that the team as a whole would have gotten a better shot out of those possessions. Maybe not all 50 times, but more often than not.

[165bows]

He’s become a very dynamic scorer.

He’s also third in field goal attempts. That’s wild to me considering there are numerous capable scorers in the league and he’s already playing alongside someone with the 2nd most attempts in the league. Which just means their teammates are left to share the scraps in terms of shots (then fans unironically complain why our role players can’t be more consistent on offense including a 20-pt scorer in Brogdon).

Hard to complain when the result is the best record in the league but at some point in the playoffs, Cs will need the contributions of the “others”. Imo, it’s on the Jays (and Joe) to involve them more. Brogdon in particular needs a more defined role and steady diet of shots/touches even in the clutch.

I agree they need better play-making from their top 2, esp. Jalen, but I think the order is also somewhat reversed here. The Js need to take so many shots because their role guys aren't dynamic scorers at all.

Very few of the rest of the team are good rim scorers, so the other team can protect the basket with one average guy. Most of the team has only 1-2 shot types that can be created for them, and one of those is the wide-open layup on a cut to the basket. The other being the open three.

My guess is a big part of what happened to the drive and kick three point machine is that teams realized the could stay home on shooters and just not collapse that much.

In last night's game there were at least 50 possessions where Jaylen held the ball for a long time, looking menacing and glaring at the defender, dribbled a lot, then jacked up a jumper or lost the ball or passed to a safety valve with 1 second left on the clock. No matter how limited Jaylen's teammates are, it's not unreasonable to think that the team as a whole would have gotten a better shot out of those possessions. Maybe not all 50 times, but more often than not.

Well hey have you considered that Jaylen's menacing glaring might be a bigger part of the team's success than you are considering? He's got to be one of the best glarers on the league, and there is some solid competition for that spot.

Edit: I mean, he's the best glarer on the team by far, it's not even close.

[Wes-J]

Brown is 4th in the entire legue in field goals made (behind Doncic, Durant and Tatum) despite being ice cold from three (32.5% on the year). For all his warts he is a special scorer.

He's 12th in points per game, 13th in points per 36, 13th in points per 75.

In the top 15 in points per game, there are only 2 players with worse scoring efficiency than Jaylen: Ja and Trae, who obviously have different responsibilities within their offenses.

Thank you. His job is to score. Period. He's doing that for a team that sits atop the NBA. If it weren't for Jaylen there would be a ton more pressure on Tatum. Let's not act like we need Jaylen to be great at everything else. After all, he's only like the 40th-50th best player in the league.

[zoyathedestroya]

I agree they need better play-making from their top 2, esp. Jalen, but I think the order is also somewhat reversed here. The Js need to take so many shots because their role guys aren't dynamic scorers at all.

Very few of the rest of the team are good rim scorers, so the other team can protect the basket with one average guy. Most of the team has only 1-2 shot types that can be created for them, and one of those is the wide-open layup on a cut to the basket. The other being the open three.

My guess is a big part of what happened to the drive and kick three point machine is that teams realized the could stay home on shooters and just not collapse that much.

I can’t agree with this assessment.

Brogdon was among the top drivers in the league last season playing with lesser players. White was in the 75th percentile as a PnR ballhandler with heavier frequency before we traded for him. Grant and Smart are great postup options esp after creating mismatches. Rob will always be a threat at the dunker spot. Even Hauser can occasionally pump-and-drive or fake and pull up from midrange.

We just don’t get to see the rest of the skillset cos of our heavy reliance on our top two scorers.

You don't have to agree but the fact is that I am right. None of those guys (outside of Brogdon) scores even 15 ppg per 36 minutes, a basic mark for a guy that can score with volume. They work because they all have spots where they work well on offense, but my point is that those spots are very limited in scope. White's per minute scoring was higher in SA but he wasn't efficient playing that role, and those were bad teams with him having to do that much scoring because again his scoring skill set is limited.

They desperately needed any of those guys to step up and show some scoring in the finals, but against a (very) good D with the Js sputtering, they were absolutely nowhere to be found. They all work great in their niches but they work because they have volume scoring with solid efficiency with Jaylen and Tatum is elite. The front court can't create shots to save their life and the back court are mediocre at creating their own offense.

It appears we’re talking about two different things. Depends on what you’re expecting out of our role players and how you wish our offense would run generally.

I’m not looking for more players that you’ll just give the ball to and say, “create something out of nothing”. Having another of those guys could easily lead to the my-turn-your-turn offense I wish we could avoid and not revert to. A few years ago, we had a few of those players that can “create their own offense” — Rozier, Mook, Hayward, Kyrie… and it didn’t take us far. On the contrary, we were able to do more with less (year Hayward and Kyrie were out) but I feel we had a better offensive flow then.

What I’m asking (and it’s not even a drastic change) is for JB specifically to trade out some of his onball/scoring possessions (esp early clock situations) for ball movement to create better offensive rhythm not just for himself but for the team. All our rotation players at the very least can shoot, pass, and put the ball on the floor at an average level.

He’s already doing it a bit. Drive, touch paint, pass it out or hand it off, relocate/cut. Instead of his usual drive into traffic and force a difficult midranger or the ATB iso threes after dribble dancing. The other players don’t even need to score per se (not looking for more 15 ppg guys except for maybe Brogdon; impossible with limited shot attempts per team) but at least they need to be more involved in the offense. Smart postups don’t need to end in him scoring but those can open up passing opportunities (even with JB or JT cutting). White/Brogdon drives can end up in dumpoffs to Rob or kickout to open shooters. And so on.

Low clock situations, go crazy with the isos, but not before exploring other options.

[165bows]

I can’t agree with this assessment.

Brogdon was among the top drivers in the league last season playing with lesser players. White was in the 75th percentile as a PnR ballhandler with heavier frequency before we traded for him. Grant and Smart are great postup options esp after creating mismatches. Rob will always be a threat at the dunker spot. Even Hauser can occasionally pump-and-drive or fake and pull up from midrange.

We just don’t get to see the rest of the skillset cos of our heavy reliance on our top two scorers.

You don't have to agree but the fact is that I am right. None of those guys (outside of Brogdon) scores even 15 ppg per 36 minutes, a basic mark for a guy that can score with volume. They work because they all have spots where they work well on offense, but my point is that those spots are very limited in scope. White's per minute scoring was higher in SA but he wasn't efficient playing that role, and those were bad teams with him having to do that much scoring because again his scoring skill set is limited.

They desperately needed any of those guys to step up and show some scoring in the finals, but against a (very) good D with the Js sputtering, they were absolutely nowhere to be found. They all work great in their niches but they work because they have volume scoring with solid efficiency with Jaylen and Tatum is elite. The front court can't create shots to save their life and the back court are mediocre at creating their own offense.

It appears we’re talking about two different things. Depends on what you’re expecting out of our role players and how you wish our offense would run generally.

I’m not looking for more players that you’ll just give the ball to and say, “create something out of nothing”. Having another of those guys could easily lead to the my-turn-your-turn offense I wish we could avoid and not revert to. A few years ago, we had a few of those players that can “create their own offense” — Rozier, Mook, Hayward, Kyrie… and it didn’t take us far. On the contrary, we were able to do more with less (year Hayward and Kyrie were out) but I feel we had a better offensive flow then.

What I’m asking (and it’s not even a drastic change) is for JB specifically to trade out some of his onball/scoring possessions (esp early clock situations) for ball movement to create better offensive rhythm not just for himself but for the team. All our rotation players at the very least can shoot, pass, and put the ball on the floor at an average level.

He’s already doing it a bit. Drive, touch paint, pass it out or hand it off, relocate/cut. Instead of his usual drive into traffic and force a difficult midranger or the ATB iso threes after dribble dancing. The other players don’t even need to score per se (not looking for more 15 ppg guys except for maybe Brogdon; impossible with limited shot attempts per team) but at least they need to be more involved in the offense. Smart postups don’t need to end in him scoring but those can open up passing opportunities (even with JB or JT cutting). White/Brogdon drives can end up in dumpoffs to Rob or kickout to open shooters. And so on.

Low clock situations, go crazy with the isos, but not before exploring other options.

Well I think we are talking about similar things. My point on it is, 1. I agree, I think we'd all prefer Jaylen had his playmaking come up to his level of iso shot making. And 2., the team could def make it easier for he and Tatum. I mean, they are a very good team so this is rich man's problems, but they need a ton of space on the pass to score. Like I am saying above, Brown can pass better on the move, but that doesn't mean most of his teammates don't still need a mile of space to score at the hoop, or be immediately at the hoop, or both.

[Curmudgeon]

It's just too bad that Brown negates so many of the great things he does with dumb turnovers and defensive lapses. His plus-minus is 4th behind Tatum, White and Smart, and it isn't that far ahead of Horford and G. Williams.

Smart and White don't make nearly as many highlight reel plays as Brown, but they take care of the ball.

[zoyathedestroya]

This Mazzulla telling Grant to take over…

Read on Twitter

[Stan34]

We are the better offense in the league and people complaining about it.
Jaylen has weaknesses but even with those, as a second best player on the team, he reached ECF twice and an NBA final. In 2020/21 he was injured.

He has to be better with the ball, too many times people gets mad (rightfully) for his stupid TO. In SA game he had 6 TO and 4 of them were absolutely avoidable.

He is a divisive player because he is unique. He is a strange player and I think people dont accept his body language.
Talking about def lapses, people put focus only on his lapses but not when others make the same mistakes.

Yesterday he played a great first half and posters were complaining only on JB.

I get mad too a lot when he makes stupid decisions but I always think about a great gol and JB has always been great when he needs to be.

Considering his bad shooting from 3 he is having a hell of a season cause 27 pts on 50% from the floor are elite numbers.

Yesterday The Ringer put him 21th in the league and Jason Timps, to me one of the best NBA analysts put him in the third all NBA team.

Inviato dal mio moto g(7) plus utilizzando Tapatalk

[Feed Your Head]

We are the better offense in the league and people complaining about it.
Jaylen has weaknesses but even with those, as a second best player on the team, he reached ECF twice and an NBA final. In 2020/21 he was injured.

He has to be better with the ball, too many times people gets mad (rightfully) for his stupid TO. In SA game he had 6 TO and 4 of them were absolutely avoidable.

He is a divisive player because he is unique. He is a strange player and I think people dont accept his body language.
Talking about def lapses, people put focus only on his lapses but not when others make the same mistakes.

Yesterday he played a great first half and posters were complaining only on JB.

I get mad too a lot when he makes stupid decisions but I always think about a great gol and JB has always been great when he needs to be.

Considering his bad shooting from 3 he is having a hell of a season cause 27 pts on 50% from the floor are elite numbers.

Yesterday The Ringer put him 21th in the league and Jason Timps, to me one of the best NBA analysts put him in the third all NBA team.

Inviato dal mio moto g(7) plus utilizzando Tapatalk

Jaylen is clearly one of the handful of best second guys in the league. My biggest thing with him is I think less is more.

When he overthinks the game, he runs into trouble, he’s said as much himself. That’s why I like him making moves off the catch, with an A and B option. Finish the layup, or kick it to the corners, or back on kick and pops, which is something he’s gotten better with this season.

[Fencer reregistered]

It's just too bad that Brown negates so many of the great things he does with dumb turnovers and defensive lapses. His plus-minus is 4th behind Tatum, White and Smart, and it isn't that far ahead of Horford and G. Williams.

Smart and White don't make nearly as many highlight reel plays as Brown, but they take care of the ball.

What kinds of minutes do those guys each play with Tatum on or off the floor?

[StojkoVrankovic]

It's just too bad that Brown negates so many of the great things he does with dumb turnovers and defensive lapses. His plus-minus is 4th behind Tatum, White and Smart, and it isn't that far ahead of Horford and G. Williams.

Smart and White don't make nearly as many highlight reel plays as Brown, but they take care of the ball.

forever a simpleton, great job!

[BK_2020]

It's just too bad that Brown negates so many of the great things he does with dumb turnovers and defensive lapses. His plus-minus is 4th behind Tatum, White and Smart, and it isn't that far ahead of Horford and G. Williams.

Smart and White don't make nearly as many highlight reel plays as Brown, but they take care of the ball.

What kinds of minutes do those guys each play with Tatum on or off the floor?

Derrick White has always had good on/off numbers, and that includes 5 seasons with the Spurs, during which he played 100% of his minutes with Tatum off the floor.