NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[Wolfgang630]

Yeah it’s Jokic and Tatum as the clear top 2 then it falls off from there. Too much losing by Doncic now

[Exp0sed]

Embiid is a great scorer but he'd be nowhere near those numbers without being an all-time great foul baiter and pro flopper ...

Drawing fouls is a skill, it's part of the game.

drawing phantom fouls by hurling urself to the ground isn't much of a skill
guys that are in this list, even if don't account for era\spacing\rules\inflation - there's no way not to account for how these guys grinded

Embiid has played like 350 career games
not that hard to go hard when ur constantly resting

these guys manned up almost every night

[iggymcfrack]

i told you Jokic would win the next 5 MVPs because he benefits from the PER formula and he's got a good team. Once Denver becomes a top 2 team in the west you have no choice but give to him.

right, he's only getting votes because the PER formula "benefits him"

that's sig worthy tbh

he's doing nothing exceptional, nothing whatsoever. Why are we even talking about this fraud PER manufactured superstar?

dude's just padding his PER

i am not saying Jokic does not deserve MVP i am just speaking the fact that there is a lot of media player treat PER as the holy grail and Jokic benefits from fitting the PER formula.

Elite passing is the second most underrated skill by the PER formula. Jokic is arguably the second best passer in the history of basketball. His game is not maximized by the PER formula. Look at Nash. He won back-to-back MVPs way before the advanced stats renaissance with the lowest PER by anyone since at least the ‘70s due to his elite passing.

[iggymcfrack]

At this moment And as much as I hate to say this and as a Boston fan The Joker is a big step ahead of everyone..he is ridiculous..

As coach Greg Poppavich has stated, Jokic is the closest thing to Larry Bird.. He has all the same attributes of being able to dominate the Game without dominating the ball. just does it from the center position instead.

Still think Tatum deserves the 2nd spot because he is the best 2 way player and has the team in the best record category..

I honestly feel like it’s an insult to Jokic to compare him to Bird at this point. It’s like saying LeBron is the closest thing we’ve had to Dr. J in the late 2000s.

[iggymcfrack]

and then there were two. It's pretty much down to Tatum and Jokic at this point.

Giannis and Embiid have missed too many games and will likely miss more. The Mavs just aren't good enough to keep Luka in the race. I'm not even sure they'll win 43 games this year.

Luka has at least as good of a chance to win MVP as Tatum. There’s a lot of season left. If the Mavs make one move at the deadline Dallas could easily end up with a top 4 seed. Jokic wins unless he gets hurt though.

[eyeatoma]

Embiid is a great scorer but he'd be nowhere near those numbers without being an all-time great foul baiter and pro flopper ...

Drawing fouls is a skill, it's part of the game.

Correction, if Jokic does it it's a skill lol.

[Duke4life831]

and then there were two. It's pretty much down to Tatum and Jokic at this point.

Giannis and Embiid have missed too many games and will likely miss more. The Mavs just aren't good enough to keep Luka in the race. I'm not even sure they'll win 43 games this year.

Yup I have to agree with this. It wasnt too long ago the field was pretty stacked. But missed games pretty much has/will taken Giannis/Embiid/KD out of it. And Dallas going 4-6 in the last 10 isnt going to cut it either. So to me there are 3 guys remaining and each on their own tier.

Tier 1:
Jokic

Tier 2:
Tatum:

Tier 3:
Luka

For Luka to climb into that 2nd tier I think at minimum Dallas needs to be a top 3 seed. And I dont think either Tatum or Luka can catch Jokic. Only way I see it becoming even with Jokic and the other two is if Jokic slips. Denver begins to fall down the standings or Jokic's efficiency and overall play slips. But if everyone just keeps playing at their level, no one is catching Jokic.

[antonac]

and then there were two. It's pretty much down to Tatum and Jokic at this point.

Giannis and Embiid have missed too many games and will likely miss more. The Mavs just aren't good enough to keep Luka in the race. I'm not even sure they'll win 43 games this year.

Yup I have to agree with this. It wasnt too long ago the field was pretty stacked. But missed games pretty much has/will taken Giannis/Embiid/KD out of it. And Dallas going 4-6 in the last 10 isnt going to cut it either. So to me there are 3 guys remaining and each on their own tier.

Tier 1:
Jokic

Tier 2:
Tatum:

Tier 3:
Luka

For Luka to climb into that 2nd tier I think at minimum Dallas needs to be a top 3 seed. And I dont think either Tatum or Luka can catch Jokic. Only way I see it becoming even with Jokic and the other two is if Jokic slips. Denver begins to fall down the standings or Jokic's efficiency and overall play slips. But if everyone just keeps playing at their level, no one is catching Jokic.

Jokic will not slip, if there's anything you can take from the the last three seasons it's that he's frighteningly consistent.

It's very, very rare he has a bad game that costs the nuggets the W. A lot of his quiet games have been because he's let the game flow and been happy to facilitate, his worst game scores are often team wins. Usually if the team is losing it's quite evident he's put the team on his back and tried to bring them close

You take doncic on the other hand and if he plays badly the mavs just lose.

Even in Jokic's MVP season, where he struggled for help he went 5-5 in his quietest performances, Doncic this year is 1-9.

It's more likely he slips back just letting his teammates play if they got hot.

[Duke4life831]

and then there were two. It's pretty much down to Tatum and Jokic at this point.

Giannis and Embiid have missed too many games and will likely miss more. The Mavs just aren't good enough to keep Luka in the race. I'm not even sure they'll win 43 games this year.

Yup I have to agree with this. It wasnt too long ago the field was pretty stacked. But missed games pretty much has/will taken Giannis/Embiid/KD out of it. And Dallas going 4-6 in the last 10 isnt going to cut it either. So to me there are 3 guys remaining and each on their own tier.

Tier 1:
Jokic

Tier 2:
Tatum:

Tier 3:
Luka

For Luka to climb into that 2nd tier I think at minimum Dallas needs to be a top 3 seed. And I dont think either Tatum or Luka can catch Jokic. Only way I see it becoming even with Jokic and the other two is if Jokic slips. Denver begins to fall down the standings or Jokic's efficiency and overall play slips. But if everyone just keeps playing at their level, no one is catching Jokic.

Jokic will not slip, if there's anything you can take from the the last three seasons it's that he's frighteningly consistent.

It's very, very rare he has a bad game that costs the nuggets the W. A lot of his quiet games have been because he's let the game flow and been happy to facilitate, his worst game scores are often team wins. Usually if the team is losing it's quite evident he's put the team on his back and tried to bring them close

You take doncic on the other hand and if he plays badly the mavs just lose.

Even in Jokic's MVP season, where he struggled for help he went 5-5 in his quietest performances, Doncic this year is 1-9.

It's more likely he slips back just letting his teammates play if they got hot.

Oh I agree 100%. I mean the dude has only 1 game this season where he shot below 50% and only 1 game where he had below 6 assists. He is the definition of consistency. Which is why I think with each passing game the gap between him and everyone else grows. Just saying the only way I see him losing is if he slips or somehow Denver starts to fall down the standings. The MVP is 100% in his hands at the moment.

[AleksandarN]

At this moment And as much as I hate to say this and as a Boston fan The Joker is a big step ahead of everyone..he is ridiculous..

As coach Greg Poppavich has stated, Jokic is the closest thing to Larry Bird.. He has all the same attributes of being able to dominate the Game without dominating the ball. just does it from the center position instead.

Still think Tatum deserves the 2nd spot because he is the best 2 way player and has the team in the best record category..

I honestly feel like it’s an insult to Jokic to compare him to Bird at this point. It’s like saying LeBron is the closest thing we’ve had to Dr. J in the late 2000s.

Come on. I am a huge Jokic fan maybe the biggest one. But he is no where near Bird in just accomplishments alone. Bird was a better competitor than Jokic by a mile

[iggymcfrack]

At this moment And as much as I hate to say this and as a Boston fan The Joker is a big step ahead of everyone..he is ridiculous..

As coach Greg Poppavich has stated, Jokic is the closest thing to Larry Bird.. He has all the same attributes of being able to dominate the Game without dominating the ball. just does it from the center position instead.

Still think Tatum deserves the 2nd spot because he is the best 2 way player and has the team in the best record category..

I honestly feel like it’s an insult to Jokic to compare him to Bird at this point. It’s like saying LeBron is the closest thing we’ve had to Dr. J in the late 2000s.

Come on. I am a huge Jokic fan maybe the biggest one. But he is no where near Bird in just accomplishments alone. Bird was a better competitor than Jokic by a mile

Accomplishments maybe, but you’re really going to try to say he was a better competitor? GTFO. Bird consistently struggled to maintain his level in the postseason and in the rare occasions he didn’t choke in the playoffs, he was still well below the level Joker established the last 3 seasons.

[frica]

Betting odds are becoming one sided now.

Good to see, Jokic deserves his 3rd MVP.

[nomansland]

At this moment And as much as I hate to say this and as a Boston fan The Joker is a big step ahead of everyone..he is ridiculous..

As coach Greg Poppavich has stated, Jokic is the closest thing to Larry Bird.. He has all the same attributes of being able to dominate the Game without dominating the ball. just does it from the center position instead.

Still think Tatum deserves the 2nd spot because he is the best 2 way player and has the team in the best record category..

I honestly feel like it’s an insult to Jokic to compare him to Bird at this point. It’s like saying LeBron is the closest thing we’ve had to Dr. J in the late 2000s.

Come on. I am a huge Jokic fan maybe the biggest one. But he is no where near Bird in just accomplishments alone. Bird was a better competitor than Jokic by a mile

You could say Bird was a better competitor based on 2 rings and talking a bunch of smack. If Jokic gets a couple of rings I don't think you can call him a lesser competitor. Duncan rarely talked smack. Would you say he's a lesser competitor than Bird? Some people just compete quietly.

[kuclas]

Can Jokic team win 60 games? That’s the key question

He’s got 2 other max players with him (mpj and Murray) and Aaron Gordon ain’t exactly cheap at $20 plus million a year and he’s playing the best ball of his career. So no excuses not to get to 60 wins for Jokic to claim 3rd mvp in a row.

Luka gets my vote if he can drag a mediocre Dallas team with a 6 seed or higher.

Curious why is 60 your arbitrary cutoff? 59 wins automatically disqualifies him?

Earlier in the season Jokic needed a "top 3 seed", then a "#1 seed", and now 60+ wins.

By the end of the year I expect the requirement list to be:
- Publicly donate 50% of salary to humanitarian causes
- Work part time at a soup kitchen helping the homeless
- Work part time in a lab trying for cure to cancer
- 65 wins (must include 20 win streak)
- All other possible candidates retire
- Donate one kidney

And he'll be MVP no doubt

It’s called the Derrick rose rule winning the mvp over lebron James. We all know rose didn’t deserve it. Voters will find any way lot to award 3 straight mvp to Jokic. As they did with James.

Similar happen to Giannis.

[baksuzz]

To me Jokic is a sure MVP winner at this point. Denver should definitely stay top2 in the west,
Kings and Pelicans are 5games behind, pelicans main players are missing a lot of games and i just dont see a way Nuggets can fall below the 2nd seed.

Doncic fg% in January is only 43% and they lost 4/7 games they played. They won vs Houston, Pelicans without their 3 best players and lakers in overtime without Lebron playing...
So i think Tatum is a 2. now. They will have the best record in the east but i dont think it will be enough when Nuggets will also be 1/2 in east since the gap between jokic and tatum stats and efficiency is big.

To me only some Jokic injury can prevent him from getting the 3rd MVP.

[playa-hater]

At this moment And as much as I hate to say this and as a Boston fan The Joker is a big step ahead of everyone..he is ridiculous..

As coach Greg Poppavich has stated, Jokic is the closest thing to Larry Bird.. He has all the same attributes of being able to dominate the Game without dominating the ball. just does it from the center position instead.

Still think Tatum deserves the 2nd spot because he is the best 2 way player and has the team in the best record category..

I honestly feel like it’s an insult to Jokic to compare him to Bird at this point. It’s like saying LeBron is the closest thing we’ve had to Dr. J in the late 2000s.

Wow. I am guessing you really do not know the things that Larry Birt accomplished.

I could probably write quite a few paragraphs on the things Larry Bird did both for his team and in the playoffs winning 3 straight MVPs ..3 championships not 2, Also lifted the entire NBA in the eighties. Totally changed the franchise from worst team to best team in one year.. I believe the biggest turn around ever.. Dominated his peers which includes going 13 and 1 against Michael Jordan in the playoffs.. The absolute only knock on Larry Bird as his last few years was filled with injuries..

I think it is an insult to say that comparing Joker to Larry Bird is an insult..

I guess this is what I get when I make a claim about one of the greatest coaches ever making a claim about Larry and Joker.

[antonac]

I have to be honest, as a huge Jokic fan, it's always going to be a massive compliment for him to be compared to Bird.

Guy is a top 10 all time, there's literally no one alive it's an insult to compare him to, you can have a straight faced Jordan vs Bird debate in some areas.

[scrabbarista]

I have to be honest, as a huge Jokic fan, it's always going to be a massive compliment for him to be compared to Bird.

Guy is a top 10 all time, there's literally no one alive it's an insult to compare him to, you can have a straight faced Jordan vs Bird debate in some areas.

Yeah, I think I have Bird eleventh, but that guy was tripping saying it's an insult to Jokic. Definitely a big compliment.

EDIT: Maybe he just meant Jokic is a better player than Bird, but he chose the wrong words to say it. Jokic being better than Bird is a very valid take. (Not higher on the all-time list yet, of course, but if you're just talking peaks. But I don't concern myself with peaks as much as careers, so I'm not taking a stand either way.)

[Mickey8]

Embiid is a great scorer but he'd be nowhere near those numbers without being an all-time great foul baiter and pro flopper ...

Drawing fouls is a skill, it's part of the game.

Correction, if Jokic does it it's a skill lol.

Watch on YouTube

This is how Jokic is treated by the refs on the nightly basis, so don't you even think to go there. Embiid is the most protected player in the league by far.

[scrabbarista]

BBref has Jokic at 70.2% and Doncic in second place at 7.5%. I agree that it's probably just Jokic and Tatum going forward. Basically, Tatum is Jokic's understudy. If Jokic gets hurt soon and the gap in games played is big enough, Tatum will win it. If he's healthy, Jokic gets the Award. That's pretty much the only two scenarios I can foresee.

That said, Jokic is top five all-time in the three "traditional advanced" stats: 3rd in BPM (last season he set the record), 4th in WS/48 (closest modern player is 2013 LBJ in sixth), and 2nd in PER (last season he set the record). That's top five all-time, not top five this season. And his team is in the first seed, one game out of best record in the league. If the vote were today, he should not only win, but win unanimously. Tatum should be second, then whoever: Doncic, Embiid, Durant, Morant, Antetokounmpo, Sabonis, in roughly that order...

Honestly, this thread should be dead for a while if the only thing to discuss here is "who deserves to win MVP this season."