2022-23 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread (poll reset)

[CraftylikeaFox]

This rookie class looks stacked right now.

Banchero looks like a future superstar.

Mathurin and Ivey have flashed star potential.

Kessler, Jabari, and Jalen Williams look like they could be stars or at least high end starters.

Murray, AJ Griffin, and Nembhard look like future high end starters.

Guys like Sochan, Mark Williams, Eason, Duren, and Dyson Daniels have looked good too.

Just a lot of talent all around

[Mr Peanut]

Im a big fan of Kessler. I sound like a Jazz fan already in our message board.

Another guy who’s under the radar is Mark Williams. Elite length, very mobile and athletic, great in stocks, great roll man/finished and even shows great touch at perimeter.

Mark Williams is everything what Jalen Duren wants to be.

Maybe we can judge Mark Williams more fairly when is playing more than 13 MPG vs backups.

[Mavrelous]

AJ Griffin yesterday hit pro level shots, one time he ISO on the perimeter and pull up off the dribble and hit it, looks like a really good player.

[76ciology]

Im a big fan of Kessler. I sound like a Jazz fan already in our message board.

Another guy who’s under the radar is Mark Williams. Elite length, very mobile and athletic, great in stocks, great roll man/finished and even shows great touch at perimeter.

Mark Williams is everything what Jalen Duren wants to be.

Maybe we can judge Mark Williams more fairly when is playing more than 13 MPG vs backups.

Watch on YouTube

Sengun is a back-up?

[Mr Peanut]

Im a big fan of Kessler. I sound like a Jazz fan already in our message board.

Another guy who’s under the radar is Mark Williams. Elite length, very mobile and athletic, great in stocks, great roll man/finished and even shows great touch at perimeter.

Mark Williams is everything what Jalen Duren wants to be.

Maybe we can judge Mark Williams more fairly when is playing more than 13 MPG vs backups.

Watch on YouTube

Sengun is a back-up?

The majority of his minutes are against backups. I'm not saying he hasn't looked impressive, but there's such a small sample size of data so far.

Duren is averaging an efficient double-double as a starter and is already statistically one of the best rebounders in the league. He's also 2 years younger than Williams.

[mcmurphy]

in the rookie ladder on nba.com they begin to notice Kessler too

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-18-2023-edition

[Duke4life831]

in the rookie ladder on nba.com they begin to notice Kessler too

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-18-2023-edition

They have Mathurin as the 4th best defensive rookie so far? That screams to me that whoever did this defensive ranking hasn’t watched these guys too often and just went and looked at basic stats like Defensive Rating. Mathurin has been horrible on that end, even most Pacers fans will admit he’s horrible on that end.

[Colbinii]

Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.

[Bank Shot]

Mathurin's rep is really living off that hot start. I'm Canadian, so I'm cheering for him, but he's been pretty bad for a while now. Kessler is a much better player at the moment.

[slick_watts]

if jalen williams gets that shot together the sky is the limit. his length is insane.

[Duke4life831]

Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.

Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.

[Colbinii]

Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.

Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.

I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

[Mephariel]

What a game from Keegan Murray:

Watch on YouTube

[76ciology]

Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.

Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.

I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

How does Duren has a higher offense floor? Williams has better pts per 36 and shows more promise as a shooter.

And defensively, Williams projects to be an elite rim protector, elite in deflections and elite rebounder.

I know how impressive Duren’s physique and athleticism is. But Mark Williams’ got elite length (he’s got a longer standing reach than Bol bol) and has great mobility and athleticism for his size.

[RRR3]

Mark Williams is fine but Kessler is significantly further ahead on both ends of the court and Duren has so much more potential than Williams given the age difference.

The best thing for Williams is to get out of Charlotte--what a horrible franchise.

Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.

I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

Kessler is a top 20 center now, weird comment.

[Colbinii]

Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.

I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

Kessler is a top 20 center now, weird comment.

I don't have him better than the following players I consider best at Center:

Embiid
AD
Jokic
Towns
Gobert
Rob Williams
JJJ
CLaxton
Sabonis
J Allen
M Turner
Al Horford
Bam
Poeltl
Porzingis
Vuc

And then I see arguments for Capella (when healthy), Poeltl, Sengun, Nurcik, Robinson.

I can see him as being Top 20 currently but I don't ever except him to be a Top 5 Center [maybe he can have a season or two as a Top 10 center?] which means Top 20 is a safe estimate for him as a player and my 90% expectations [meaning he can exceed them].

[HotelVitale]

This rookie class looks stacked right now.

Banchero looks like a future superstar.

Mathurin and Ivey have flashed star potential.

Kessler, Jabari, and Jalen Williams look like they could be stars or at least high end starters.

Murray, AJ Griffin, and Nembhard look like future high end starters.

Guys like Sochan, Mark Williams, Eason, Duren, and Dyson Daniels have looked good too.

Just a lot of talent all around

Yeah lot of diverse talent this year. I also like some of the late round guy who’ve only had time to show flashes. This stuff also changes SO much over time, it’s very likely that about 1/3 of the guys you have listed as stars or high end starters end up barely clinging to rosters in like 4 years, while at least a few guys who look pretty disappointing now emerge as some of the best players in the class.

Translation—what skills and abilities that dude hung his hat on at lower levels work right away?—is always cool to watch and this year has been more interesting than usual. Lots of surprises and disappointments so far. The next step of full adjustment to nba pace and timing is usually even more important and unpredictable, all about what you can do consistently and repetitively against full on nba talents. That’s where the slow burning guys who master the little things make up ground every year.

[bstein14]

Jalen Duren tonight 9-13 and 5-5 from the line for 23 points, 15 rebounds, 2, blocks, and 2 steals in 31 minutes of action... Yes the Pistons got beat down by the Bucks but a nice stat line from the young fella. It will be interesting to see how his 2023 numbers end up. I wouldn't be surprised to see him average a double double the 2nd half of his rookie season... especially since he's getting more minutes with Bagley out.

[Mr Peanut]

Ill push back on this and this isnt me being bias because I feel the same way with Kessler (same reason I had both guys ahead of Duren before the draft).

I think the idea of Duren is better than what you can actually get from him. What I mean by that is, offensively we have gotten to the point with bigs where if they dont have point forward skills or they arent some freak offensive talent, teams drastically limit their offensive roles. And offensively Duren is just as raw as the other two. So I dont ever see Duren ever becoming super impactful on the offensive end.

So it really just comes to the defensive end. And I think many have this idea with Duren that he can be this super versatile shut down defender. But the thing is, ya even with the age difference between Duren and the other two. The other two are so much further ahead when it comes to defensive awareness and IQ. And the other two are so long (Mark is the longest guy in the NBA) and mobile enough where thats not an issue. Give me the guys that have elite length to go with elite timing and awareness, over the smaller more explosive guy that has a lot more area to grow when it comes to his defensive instincts.

I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

How does Duren has a higher offense floor? Williams has better pts per 36 and shows more promise as a shooter.

And defensively, Williams projects to be an elite rim protector, elite in deflections and elite rebounder.

I know how impressive Duren’s physique and athleticism is. But Mark Williams’ got elite length (he’s got a longer standing reach than Bol bol) and has great mobility and athleticism for his size.

You're actually quoting points per 36 for a guy playing 13 minutes per game against predominantly backups? That's bold.

[76ciology]

I see Duren as becoming a low end starter, Kessler a good starter [Top 20 Center] and Williams right now projecting as a low end starter/back center.

I didn't hype Duren like some did but he still has a higher offense floor than Williams.

How does Duren has a higher offense floor? Williams has better pts per 36 and shows more promise as a shooter.

And defensively, Williams projects to be an elite rim protector, elite in deflections and elite rebounder.

I know how impressive Duren’s physique and athleticism is. But Mark Williams’ got elite length (he’s got a longer standing reach than Bol bol) and has great mobility and athleticism for his size.

You're actually quoting points per 36 for a guy playing 13 minutes per game against predominantly backups? That's bold.

He’s not playing against back-ups recently. He played when Sengun, Okongwu/Capela (both started) and Kessler/Vando (both started) were on the floor in his last 3 games where he averaged 12ppg 4.7rpg 1.7spg and 2.7bpg

Both guys are averaging almost the same number of points despite Mark Williams playing almost half Duren’s minutes.

Duren’s only edge is his superb rebounding. Mark Williams has the edge on rim protection/blks, steals and pts.

Mark Williams has been better than Duren, until proven otherwise which is not impossible.

Im not a Hornets fan. So you can also count me out for being bias.