basketballRob wrote:Franz up to 21 in War. All the players ahead of him are going to be all-stars. Can Franz make the all-star team this season ?
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lol no.
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basketballRob wrote:Franz up to 21 in War. All the players ahead of him are going to be all-stars. Can Franz make the all-star team this season ?
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Vampirate wrote:tooler wrote:basketballRob has been on a tear lately, there's no stopping him right now! And don't ask us to come get him, we're powerless.
Here's a good question
What's the one aspect of his game you want to see Franz work on the most in the off season?
For Raptor fans it's probably Barnes Ball Handling. Even more than shooting.
Barnes isn't a better defender.Vampirate wrote:basketballRob wrote:Barnes is a couple tiers lower than Franz.Vampirate wrote:
I'm not exactly sure of the possibility, but Franz has potential to become All NBA as well.
Do I think it's as likely as Mobley, Barnes, Cade or Green, no but....it's there.
Franz is 6"10 with offensive skill, there's a scenario where his skills match with his height to make him offensively great.
Potential is a tricky thing to measure.
Next year this whole conversation could look totally different, heck a no name no one's heard of could come and blow everyone away.
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Well since you again want to brag.
Franz is the better scorer.
Barnes is the better
-Defender
-Rebounder
-Playmaker
-Since January has gotten to the FT line at a much higher rate than Franz.
Franz atm has only 1 elite skill, scoring, he currently doesn't have anything else.
Straight up Mobley, Barnes and Cade provide more value if they are having an off shooting night than Franz does.
This is what you fail to recognize, and congrats you yourself are making other people dislike your player more and more just by running your mouth because you want to brag every chance you get.
Franz is so much better than Barnes. Is this a joke?Vampirate wrote:basketballRob wrote:Barnes is a couple tiers lower than Franz.Vampirate wrote:
I'm not exactly sure of the possibility, but Franz has potential to become All NBA as well.
Do I think it's as likely as Mobley, Barnes, Cade or Green, no but....it's there.
Franz is 6"10 with offensive skill, there's a scenario where his skills match with his height to make him offensively great.
Potential is a tricky thing to measure.
Next year this whole conversation could look totally different, heck a no name no one's heard of could come and blow everyone away.
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Well since you again want to brag.
Franz is the better scorer.
Barnes is the better
-Defender
-Rebounder
-Playmaker
-Since January has gotten to the FT line at a much higher rate than Franz.
Franz atm has only 1 elite skill, scoring, he currently doesn't have anything else.
Straight up Mobley, Barnes and Cade provide more value if they are having an off shooting night than Franz does.
This is what you fail to recognize, and congrats you yourself are making other people dislike your player more and more just by running your mouth because you want to brag every chance you get.
Vampirate wrote:Vox Populi wrote:Vampirate wrote:Franz is the better scorer.
Barnes is the better
-Defender
-Rebounder
-Playmaker
-Since January has gotten to the FT line at a much higher rate than Franz.
Franz atm has only 1 elite skill, scoring, he currently doesn't have anything else.
Straight up Mobley, Barnes and Cade provide more value if they are having an off shooting night than Franz does.
This is what you fail to recognize, and congrats you yourself are making other people dislike your player more and more just by running your mouth because you want to brag every chance you get.
These sound like Scottie Yarns!
Why are some so keen to put down Franz to build a case for Scottie?
Because when you're making a case that player is the best is entirely based on scoring mostly, you get that refute. Heck I didn't even say Barnes or Franz are better, i'm refuting the idiotic fact that Franz is tiers better just because he's the better scorer.
If you want to argue that Franz is having a better season than Barnes because of his scoring alone that's fine, it's a nitpicky argument but you didn't see me deny that Franz scoring is better.
It's the argument that Franz is tiers better than anyone else as a player is where I have to shoot down the idiotic argument.
As to which player in that draft is the best, it really comes down to which stats you want to support. There's no player that's having a Lebron type year where they are putting up 25pts/ 7 rebounds/7 assists.
If you think Franz doesn't have wholes in his entire game than you're being a homer. As much as Raptor fans bring up Barnes, Cavs fans bring up Mobley etc, we won't deny the holes in the players games that need to be worked on.
But here's a short list.
Cade - Needs to develop a reliable efficient shot, either scoring at the rim or the 3 point line
Mobley - Needs to work on the aspects of his game that can allow him to create his own shot
Barnes - Same as Mobley pretty much, just not as much
Franz - Needs to work on his rebounding and defense
Green - Defense
Giddey - Needs to work on ways to get to the FT Line more
thelead wrote:Vampirate wrote:tooler wrote:basketballRob has been on a tear lately, there's no stopping him right now! And don't ask us to come get him, we're powerless.
Here's a good question
What's the one aspect of his game you want to see Franz work on the most in the off season?
For Raptor fans it's probably Barnes Ball Handling. Even more than shooting.
For me, rebounding
jasonxxx102 wrote:Man they must have some real hard stuff in the water up in Toronto
Everything they say about raptors fans is true. Being a super fan is one thing but this is… something
JonFromVA wrote:Vampirate wrote:Vox Populi wrote:These sound like Scottie Yarns!
Why are some so keen to put down Franz to build a case for Scottie?
Because when you're making a case that player is the best is entirely based on scoring mostly, you get that refute. Heck I didn't even say Barnes or Franz are better, i'm refuting the idiotic fact that Franz is tiers better just because he's the better scorer.
If you want to argue that Franz is having a better season than Barnes because of his scoring alone that's fine, it's a nitpicky argument but you didn't see me deny that Franz scoring is better.
It's the argument that Franz is tiers better than anyone else as a player is where I have to shoot down the idiotic argument.
As to which player in that draft is the best, it really comes down to which stats you want to support. There's no player that's having a Lebron type year where they are putting up 25pts/ 7 rebounds/7 assists.
If you think Franz doesn't have wholes in his entire game than you're being a homer. As much as Raptor fans bring up Barnes, Cavs fans bring up Mobley etc, we won't deny the holes in the players games that need to be worked on.
But here's a short list.
Cade - Needs to develop a reliable efficient shot, either scoring at the rim or the 3 point line
Mobley - Needs to work on the aspects of his game that can allow him to create his own shot
Barnes - Same as Mobley pretty much, just not as much
Franz - Needs to work on his rebounding and defense
Green - Defense
Giddey - Needs to work on ways to get to the FT Line more
Every player in the league has holes in their game they can be working on to improve and become better, but the first step for any young player is to address the ones that are keeping them from helping their team win games - and Evan Mobley, Barnes, Franz, Sengun, Giddey don't had those kind of holes in their game.
So, what's next?
Get to an All-Star / All-NBA / All Defensive team level?
Well, Evan is pretty close to the last one, but I think you'd need to expand your list quite a bit to cover everything these guys need to improve on to become one of the top players in the league.
Code: Select all
pts: 15.5 / 13 / 15.3 / 18.7
fga: 11.5 / 14.1 / 13.2 / 13.3
fg%: 52.0 / 39.1 / 46.5 / 50.6
3fg%: 52.4 / 26.0 / 21.6 / 30.4
fta: 2.2 / 1.3 / 3.2 / 6.1
ft%: 76.9 / 68.8 / 79.2 / 75.3
ts%: 62.2 / 42.9 / 48.5 / 52.8
rebs: 5.8 / 6.5 / 7.7 / 7.4
asts: 4.3 / 5.6 / 3.9 / 5.3
tov: 1.8 / 2.5 / 2.2 / 1.6
stls: 1.2 / 0.8 / 1 / 1.3
blks: 0.5 / 1.2 / 0.4 / 1.4
ortg: 119.4 / 111.1 / 113.8 / 116.8
drtg: 112.3 / 108.2 / 118.4 / 112.2
net: +7.2 / +2.9 / -4.6 / +4.6
usg: 20.6 / 20.5 / 20 / 20.2
Vampirate wrote:JonFromVA wrote:Vampirate wrote:
Because when you're making a case that player is the best is entirely based on scoring mostly, you get that refute. Heck I didn't even say Barnes or Franz are better, i'm refuting the idiotic fact that Franz is tiers better just because he's the better scorer.
If you want to argue that Franz is having a better season than Barnes because of his scoring alone that's fine, it's a nitpicky argument but you didn't see me deny that Franz scoring is better.
It's the argument that Franz is tiers better than anyone else as a player is where I have to shoot down the idiotic argument.
As to which player in that draft is the best, it really comes down to which stats you want to support. There's no player that's having a Lebron type year where they are putting up 25pts/ 7 rebounds/7 assists.
If you think Franz doesn't have wholes in his entire game than you're being a homer. As much as Raptor fans bring up Barnes, Cavs fans bring up Mobley etc, we won't deny the holes in the players games that need to be worked on.
But here's a short list.
Cade - Needs to develop a reliable efficient shot, either scoring at the rim or the 3 point line
Mobley - Needs to work on the aspects of his game that can allow him to create his own shot
Barnes - Same as Mobley pretty much, just not as much
Franz - Needs to work on his rebounding and defense
Green - Defense
Giddey - Needs to work on ways to get to the FT Line more
Every player in the league has holes in their game they can be working on to improve and become better, but the first step for any young player is to address the ones that are keeping them from helping their team win games - and Evan Mobley, Barnes, Franz, Sengun, Giddey don't had those kind of holes in their game.
So, what's next?
Get to an All-Star / All-NBA / All Defensive team level?
Well, Evan is pretty close to the last one, but I think you'd need to expand your list quite a bit to cover everything these guys need to improve on to become one of the top players in the league.
I guess the question is what's the biggest hole in the player's game that stops them from reaching the next level?
As for the bolded, I decided to add to it. Mobley wasn't the only player you could say that about imo. Each one of those players do provide value to a team overall in areas the others lack.
If you disagree, than we'll need to deep dive into each player individually and into each players circumstance (ie quality of teammates). Then the next exercise would be to plug that player into another player's circumstance and see how well they do.
Franz needs to work on his defense isn't even factual. You can make an argument that Mobley is a better defender, but he looks ahead of everyone else on the list. His rebounding has been fine for a SG but not a SF. Both Mobley and Barnes are more of PFs, so of course they can rebound better. Franz can defend guards on the perimeter better than Barnes or Mobley.JonFromVA wrote:Vampirate wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
Every player in the league has holes in their game they can be working on to improve and become better, but the first step for any young player is to address the ones that are keeping them from helping their team win games - and Evan Mobley, Barnes, Franz, Sengun, Giddey don't had those kind of holes in their game.
So, what's next?
Get to an All-Star / All-NBA / All Defensive team level?
Well, Evan is pretty close to the last one, but I think you'd need to expand your list quite a bit to cover everything these guys need to improve on to become one of the top players in the league.
I guess the question is what's the biggest hole in the player's game that stops them from reaching the next level?
As for the bolded, I decided to add to it. Mobley wasn't the only player you could say that about imo. Each one of those players do provide value to a team overall in areas the others lack.
If you disagree, than we'll need to deep dive into each player individually and into each players circumstance (ie quality of teammates). Then the next exercise would be to plug that player into another player's circumstance and see how well they do.
I won't disagree, I don't watch those other guys enough to see how their flaws affect their team. Given the Cavs are the only winning team of the bunch, the correlation is a lot clearer and the biggest hurdle to helping a team win for a young player is defense. Evan is so far ahead of the curve on that end - he doesn't have to provide much on the other end.
basketballRob wrote:Franz needs to work on his defense isn't even factual. You can make an argument that Mobley is a better defender, but he looks ahead of everyone else on the list. His rebounding has been fine for a SG but not a SF. Both Mobley and Barnes are more of PFs, so of course they can rebound better. Franz can defend guards on the perimeter better than Barnes or Mobley.JonFromVA wrote:Vampirate wrote:
I guess the question is what's the biggest hole in the player's game that stops them from reaching the next level?
As for the bolded, I decided to add to it. Mobley wasn't the only player you could say that about imo. Each one of those players do provide value to a team overall in areas the others lack.
If you disagree, than we'll need to deep dive into each player individually and into each players circumstance (ie quality of teammates). Then the next exercise would be to plug that player into another player's circumstance and see how well they do.
I won't disagree, I don't watch those other guys enough to see how their flaws affect their team. Given the Cavs are the only winning team of the bunch, the correlation is a lot clearer and the biggest hurdle to helping a team win for a young player is defense. Evan is so far ahead of the curve on that end - he doesn't have to provide much on the other end.
Sure, Barnes and Mobley have moments. Franz is guarding guards nearly the whole game. He's one of the better defenders on the team. Not sure where the, "he needs to work on his defense " came from.JonFromVA wrote:basketballRob wrote:Franz needs to work on his defense isn't even factual. You can make an argument that Mobley is a better defender, but he looks ahead of everyone else on the list. His rebounding has been fine for a SG but not a SF. Both Mobley and Barnes are more of PFs, so of course they can rebound better. Franz can defend guards on the perimeter better than Barnes or Mobley.JonFromVA wrote:
I won't disagree, I don't watch those other guys enough to see how their flaws affect their team. Given the Cavs are the only winning team of the bunch, the correlation is a lot clearer and the biggest hurdle to helping a team win for a young player is defense. Evan is so far ahead of the curve on that end - he doesn't have to provide much on the other end.
Oh? A lot of guards are just moving the ball when they find Evan on them because of stuff like this:
basketballRob wrote:Sure, Barnes and Mobley have moments. Franz is guarding guards nearly the whole game. He's one of the better defenders on the team. Not sure where the, "he needs to work on his defense " came from.JonFromVA wrote:basketballRob wrote:Franz needs to work on his defense isn't even factual. You can make an argument that Mobley is a better defender, but he looks ahead of everyone else on the list. His rebounding has been fine for a SG but not a SF. Both Mobley and Barnes are more of PFs, so of course they can rebound better. Franz can defend guards on the perimeter better than Barnes or Mobley.
Oh? A lot of guards are just moving the ball when they find Evan on them because of stuff like this:
JonFromVA wrote:Vampirate wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
Every player in the league has holes in their game they can be working on to improve and become better, but the first step for any young player is to address the ones that are keeping them from helping their team win games - and Evan Mobley, Barnes, Franz, Sengun, Giddey don't had those kind of holes in their game.
So, what's next?
Get to an All-Star / All-NBA / All Defensive team level?
Well, Evan is pretty close to the last one, but I think you'd need to expand your list quite a bit to cover everything these guys need to improve on to become one of the top players in the league.
I guess the question is what's the biggest hole in the player's game that stops them from reaching the next level?
As for the bolded, I decided to add to it. Mobley wasn't the only player you could say that about imo. Each one of those players do provide value to a team overall in areas the others lack.
If you disagree, than we'll need to deep dive into each player individually and into each players circumstance (ie quality of teammates). Then the next exercise would be to plug that player into another player's circumstance and see how well they do.
I won't disagree, I don't watch those other guys enough to see how their flaws affect their team. Given the Cavs are the only winning team of the bunch, the correlation is a lot clearer and the biggest hurdle to helping a team win for a young player is defense. Evan is so far ahead of the curve on that end - he doesn't have to provide much on the other end.
basketballRob wrote:Franz Wagner is the second best ball handler on the Magic behind Fultz.
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Vampirate wrote:basketballRob wrote:Franz Wagner is the second best ball handler on the Magic behind Fultz.
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So what's the point you're trying to make? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.