ImageImageImageImageImage

Official Trade Thread Part XLV

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 16,337
And1: 7,439
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#101 » by FAH1223 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:57 pm

doclinkin wrote:
dlts20 wrote:I thought that some of you were insane with the kuzma trade. Not that you were wrong because you weren't but I know our franchise. We are going to pay him and treat him like he is a superstar. He also doesn't want to go anywhere else.


My feeling is if Brooklyn, Knicks, or the Lakers offered a deal that is anywhere close, Kuz would jump. Media attention, fashion, post NBA career -- these have more pull than being able to chuck up more shots for a losing team. The only difference is that the Wiz can pay more. But the Lakers only have LeBJ and Unibrow on their books for next season. Pretty much everyone else on their squad is an expiring contract. They can build whatever team they want. If LeBJ wants Kuz again, he's back in LA.


Those teams don’t have cap space. And Brooklyn has no reason to pursue him and neither does NYK.

Lakers would have to renounce guys they traded for. It ain’t happening.
Image
pcbothwel
Head Coach
Posts: 6,239
And1: 2,796
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#102 » by pcbothwel » Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:58 pm

So much depends on the contracts Kuz and KP get this summer. I dont really see a big market for Kuz now that the deadline has passed. Teams like LAL, NYK, and Dallas are now pot committed... and Utah (Lauri), Orlando (Wagner/Banchero), Houston (Jabari/Eason), and Sac (Murray/Barnes) all have young guys in Kuz's "role".
So it really leaves Indiana and Detroit as teams that have 20M+ in cap space and a need for a PF. Indiana is almost the perfect team for him, but I could see the market/city underwhelming him.
Detroit would be a great coming home story for him, but they appear to be 3 years away from a playoff game... Thats a hard sell.

Maybe Tommy is hearing that the John Collins contract is what Kuz is seeking (5/125M). Im not a Kuz fan, but that contract could work out.
Why? The first two years is essentially a 2/45M deal, which is VERY manageable. The back half (3/80M) is expensive, but it will be in cap environment that is ~20% higher than today.
As we all saw in 2016, there will be a ton of teams with newfound capspace and money burning a hole in their pocket.
- Curry, Lillard, and KD will be 36/37 and making 55-60M.
- Lebron (40), Kawhi (34), and PG13 (35) will all be FA and looking for 50M+.
- No D-shooter like Poole and Herro are making 31-33M
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,537
And1: 23,002
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#103 » by nate33 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:09 pm

doclinkin wrote:But the Lakers only have LeBJ and Unibrow on their books for next season. Pretty much everyone else on their squad is an expiring contract. They can build whatever team they want. If LeBJ wants Kuz again, he's back in LA.

Lebron, Davis, Vanderbilt, Christie and 7 minimum salary cap holds gives them a cap number of $100M and $32M in cap room. But to get that cap room, they need to renounce a lot of useful players include Rui, Russell, Beasley, Bamba, Walker, Reeves and the Mid-Level Exception. Basically, if they want Kuzma, they have to give up all of those guys in order to sign him.

They may value Kuzma, but I don't see them stripping away their entire rotation to get him. It would be better to resign most of those guys (or S&T them for other useful guys) and operate as an above-the-cap team.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 24,813
And1: 9,203
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#104 » by payitforward » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:27 pm

Seems doubtful that anyone will save us from ourselves.
When a bad team locks in one of the guys who's responsible for making them bad, the result is rarely an improvement.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 24,813
And1: 9,203
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#105 » by payitforward » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:38 pm

pcbothwel wrote:So much depends on the contracts Kuz and KP get this summer. I dont really see a big market for Kuz now that the deadline has passed. Teams like LAL, NYK, and Dallas are now pot committed... and Utah (Lauri), Orlando (Wagner/Banchero), Houston (Jabari/Eason), and Sac (Murray/Barnes) all have young guys in Kuz's "role".
So it really leaves Indiana and Detroit as teams that have 20M+ in cap space and a need for a PF. Indiana is almost the perfect team for him, but I could see the market/city underwhelming him.
Detroit would be a great coming home story for him, but they appear to be 3 years away from a playoff game... Thats a hard sell.

What makes you think Kuz is chasing a ring?
Kuz is a businessman. He is in the entertainment business. Sports entertainment. He is interested in building his brand.

pcbothwel wrote:Maybe Tommy is hearing that the John Collins contract is what Kuz is seeking (5/125M). Im not a Kuz fan, but that contract could work out.

Thing is... Kuz doesn't make us better. Nor is he as good as Collins (whose contract is an overpay anyway).

This is not an arithmetic issue; this is a strategy issue.

Re-sign Kuz, & we will be 25-29 again at this point next season. Is that what you want?
User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 15,134
And1: 6,864
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#106 » by doclinkin » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:39 pm

I'm saying I will not be surprised if we see deals for Sign & Trade or offsetting S&T deals with Kuz' name involved. Collins for Kuz. Etc.
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,388
And1: 6,792
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#107 » by TGW » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:00 pm

I think Kuzma is a [highly paid] Wizard for the forseeable future. We might as well start thinking of trades to dump him in 2025.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
AFM
RealGM
Posts: 12,600
And1: 8,829
Joined: May 25, 2012
   

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#108 » by AFM » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:07 pm

Kuz is probably worth 20 a year max which means we will pay him 30/yr. We should be pretty much resigned to this fact, our only hope now is that we don’t give him a no trade clause.
The Consiglieri
Veteran
Posts: 2,877
And1: 1,053
Joined: May 09, 2007

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#109 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:15 pm

dlts20 wrote:I thought that some of you were insane with the kuzma trade. Not that you were wrong because you weren't but I know our franchise. We are going to pay him and treat him like he is a superstar. He also doesn't want to go anywhere else. He can literally chuck up more shots than the unicorn and Beal and no one will say anything. He's living in a great city and at times is the face of the franchise. Clown show team. Leonsis needs to go and stick to hockey, fr


Leonsis did the same thing to the Caps. I will say if they followed my plan, they would've blown it up the year they won the title lol, so not exactly a genius here but we are going on year 5 of a blatantly obvious downward trendline w/zero chance at a title due to aging out, but like with Beal, Leonsis doesn't want to cash in on the face of the franchise for a massive haul of prospects, not in '19, not in '20, not in '21, not in '22, not in '23, so he ages out and eventually will be traded for 1/5 what we could have gotten '19-'21 but only after he breaks the goal record whenever that is (and there is no lock they don't simply move the goal posts to "we want him to retire a cap".

I love me some Ovy but lets be straight, I have been a Caps fan for 40 years, I'm a caps fan first, and whatever serves those interests long term supercedes everything else.

Well, just like with Beal, the long term interests of the teams competitiveness don't even make the medal stand of the priorities Leonsis has instead, so like with Beal, the caps will continue to play basically .500 hockey, while they're farm system fell off to 20th-30th in the league and stayed there the past half decade, when the rebuild starts they will be building with pennies and nickels instead of the dollars and half dollars they could have been playing with and as a result the rebuild will take twice as long, and that's if it works (see Wizards failed rebuilds of the early nineties, late nineties, early aughts, and the two from this past decade for plenty of evidence on why rebuilds can short circuit).

It's a miserable situation. I mean it when I say that as wizards fans, if there's any way to mentally check out for several years other than important moments here and there (draft day, trade deadline), you should. We've watched this for forty years under Pollin and Leonsis, it aint changing anytime soon and this team is going nowhere. Maybe in '25 or '26 they'll get it, but we're screwed for the forseeable future, really, again, since Wall fell in the shower and they were too stupid to trade Beal for draft capital or prospects from any of the particularly loaded drafts in the following near half decade since.
The Consiglieri
Veteran
Posts: 2,877
And1: 1,053
Joined: May 09, 2007

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#110 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:18 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this if we had paid a bunch of seconds for a crowder or a Jackson or someone. Everyone would be screaming mad. If we had paid a second or two to dump some money everyone would be screaming mad. There were moves I wanted but I'm glad we didn't do anything stupid. Really there weren't a lot of stupid trades this year. Other than why everyone loves the Gary Payton thing.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app


I've posted similar thoughts elsewhere and needless to say, I don't disagree.

The options at the deadline were:
Insanely stupid win now trade.
Anonymous trade at the edges.
Nothing.
Blow up the roster.

We all knew the last option wasn't happening, so while it's unacceptable, I'm still relieved they didn't indulge option 1. That was far worse than any other option.
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 16,337
And1: 7,439
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#111 » by FAH1223 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:29 pm

TGW wrote:I think Kuzma is a [highly paid] Wizard for the forseeable future. We might as well start thinking of trades to dump him in 2025.


AFM wrote:Kuz is probably worth 20 a year max which means we will pay him 30/yr. We should be pretty much resigned to this fact, our only hope now is that we don’t give him a no trade clause.


The John Collins contract is what they're giving him, IMO. Maybe push it to $135M-$140M over 5 years.
Image
dlts20
RealGM
Posts: 12,454
And1: 6,195
Joined: Dec 14, 2006

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#112 » by dlts20 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:30 pm

Y'all are crazy if you think that kuz would jump to go play with lebron. He would see lebron as a guy who overshadows him and holds him back. He feels like he can spread his wings here. He's not going to jump at taking a lesser role again
pcbothwel
Head Coach
Posts: 6,239
And1: 2,796
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#113 » by pcbothwel » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:13 pm

payitforward wrote:What makes you think Kuz is chasing a ring?
Kuz is a businessman. He is in the entertainment business. Sports entertainment. He is interested in building his brand.

Thing is... Kuz doesn't make us better. Nor is he as good as Collins (whose contract is an overpay anyway).

This is not an arithmetic issue; this is a strategy issue.

Re-sign Kuz, & we will be 25-29 again at this point next season. Is that what you want?


1) Who said anything about a ring? Look, we can rag on the Wiz and plenty of other mediocre teams all day. But there is a huge difference between playing for a .500 team and getting your money...vs playing for a team of pure dreck that might win 15-20 games in a crime ridden ghost city like Detroit.

2) Who Cares what I want? Most of my post are about putting myself in Tommy's/Teds shoes and see what the plan is.
I would of traded Kuz and Morris at the deadline... possibly Kispert and KP too.
But we didnt. My point is Kuz at ~22M/year for 2 years is not a bad contract... and the back half of that could be moved when the cap jumps.
popper
Veteran
Posts: 2,867
And1: 405
Joined: Jun 19, 2010

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#114 » by popper » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:26 pm

I don't understand the talk of a five year 125 million contract for Kuz. Can't we just wait to see what other offers he receives and then just match it? I can't even fathom another team offering him a four year 100 million contract.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,183
And1: 7,972
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#115 » by Dat2U » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:37 pm

Kyle Kuzma (S&T) to Atlanta for John Collins coming in July.
GoneShammGone
Junior
Posts: 344
And1: 232
Joined: Nov 12, 2009

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#116 » by GoneShammGone » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:37 pm

popper wrote:I don't understand the talk of a five year 125 million contract for Kuz. Can't we just wait to see what other offers he receives and then just match it? I can't even fathom another team offering him a four year 100 million contract.


Seems so simple doesn't it? And yet, based on their past behavior, it seems likely that this is completely beyond the Wizards's/Tommy Shepperd's capabilities. I think we all know that they are going to bid against themselves, and trip over their own feet to offer Kuz 30 million a year.

In Ted/Tommy's mind, if you pay somebody X million per year, then they must be *worth* X million per year.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,183
And1: 7,972
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#117 » by Dat2U » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:52 pm

AFM wrote:Kuz is probably worth 20 a year max which means we will pay him 30/yr. We should be pretty much resigned to this fact, our only hope now is that we don’t give him a no trade clause.


Its new standard Ted is setting for the league to follow. No trade clauses for everyone. Showing confidence, trust and empowering your players. Owners around the league tell him he's pioneer and are envious of the relationships he's built with his best players.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 24,813
And1: 9,203
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#118 » by payitforward » Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:17 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:What makes you think Kuz is chasing a ring?
Kuz is a businessman. He is in the entertainment business. Sports entertainment. He is interested in building his brand.

Thing is... Kuz doesn't make us better. Nor is he as good as Collins (whose contract is an overpay anyway).

This is not an arithmetic issue; this is a strategy issue.

Re-sign Kuz, & we will be 25-29 again at this point next season. Is that what you want?

1) Who said anything about a ring? Look, we can rag on the Wiz and plenty of other mediocre teams all day. But there is a huge difference between playing for a .500 team and getting your money...vs playing for a team of pure dreck that might win 15-20 games in a crime ridden ghost city like Detroit.

2) Who Cares what I want? Most of my post are about putting myself in Tommy's/Teds shoes and see what the plan is.
I would of traded Kuz and Morris at the deadline... possibly Kispert and KP too.
But we didnt. My point is Kuz at ~22M/year for 2 years is not a bad contract... and the back half of that could be moved when the cap jumps.

Fair enough -- I misunderstood you.
That said, I don't agree about a contract for Kuz. I would take anything I could get for him rather than sign him here long-term. & I certainly don't think he's worth $22m /year.

When he's re-signed, & we're 25-29 again this time next year, it'll be clearer. Maybe.
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 16,337
And1: 7,439
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#119 » by FAH1223 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:13 pm

popper wrote:I don't understand the talk of a five year 125 million contract for Kuz. Can't we just wait to see what other offers he receives and then just match it? I can't even fathom another team offering him a four year 100 million contract.

This was the opening salvo. Shams is cool with Kuz and his agent.

Read on Twitter


Dat2U wrote:
AFM wrote:Kuz is probably worth 20 a year max which means we will pay him 30/yr. We should be pretty much resigned to this fact, our only hope now is that we don’t give him a no trade clause.


Its new standard Ted is setting for the league to follow. No trade clauses for everyone. Showing confidence, trust and empowering your players. Owners around the league tell him he's pioneer and are envious of the relationships he's built with his best players.


Partnership is the buzz word! :lol:

Look at what Tommy says here:

Read on Twitter


"We try to be very informed before we do any decision … we’ve had similar circumstances with Bradley, except that was for three years that I heard how he was leaving,” Sheppard said. “I believe heavily in relationships in this business, and having constant dialogue and feedback and involving Bradley, [Porzingis], Kyle. … Nothing’s ever 100 percent, [but] there’s not one single time that I said, hey, shoot, we better get rid of Kyle because he doesn’t want to be here or there’s no way we can keep him.”

Washington now holds Kuzma’s Bird Rights heading into the summer, meaning it can exceed the salary cap to retain him. That’s critical for a team that owes Beal $46.7 million next season while Porzingis is considering whether to exercise his $36 million player option.

The big man said in a recent interview he has not yet decided, but Washington would like to keep the trio intact. Porzingis is averaging a team-high 22.7 points on 48 percent shooting and a team-high 8.6 rebounds.

“We did all of this with that in mind, to see that core, and I think for them it’s a partnership,” Sheppard said. “We have to show them this is the right place for them, and by what they do, show us that they’re the right guys for us. And we feel they are. I think they feel the same.”
Image
pcbothwel
Head Coach
Posts: 6,239
And1: 2,796
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#120 » by pcbothwel » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:15 pm

I DO NOT think Kuz is worth $20M+. I said I think his contract would be very movable after year 2.

Return to Washington Wizards