2022-2023 Regular Season Game 58: Orlando Magic (23-34) at Chicago Bulls (26-30) - 8pm

[thelead]

I'll give Bulls fans props because at least they know they're in no man's land and they had a better big 3 than we had and we still had a decent amount of vocal fans not wanting to tank because they couldn't handle winning 20 games instead of 30.

True but they're in a tough spot considering their pick is up in the air right now.

[J the Drafter]

Fultz’s ability to dribble into a post-up is such an asset for the team. I don’t think there’s a point guard in the NBA who can defend him down there (Caruso maybe, and perhaps Lonzo—both of them have Fultz’s size), and the Magic are able to score out of the double-teams.

[cedric76]

Chicago are gonna be seller on draft night and Lavine will be available

I d rather go after Lavine than FVV

Draft day trade

Cole, Harris, Best of orl /chi pick, Denver FRP, and many 2nds



Fultz,suggs
Lavine, Houstan
Franz,bol,chuma
PB, JI,chuma
WCJ, Moe,goga

+2023 FRP +vet PG in FA

[pepe1991]

Jesus i had no clue game is tonight
thought there is no games at all

[pepe1991]

I'll give Bulls fans props because at least they know they're in no man's land and they had a better big 3 than we had and we still had a decent amount of vocal fans not wanting to tank because they couldn't handle winning 20 games instead of 30.

True but they're in a tough spot considering their pick is up in the air right now.

They could simply embrace tanking for rest of a year.
They can' be competitive with this level of 3 point shooting.

I think they didn't crack 25% for 3 in 4 last games , while making sub 5 threes a game. It's unwatchable.

If , in standings Magic and Pacers surpass them, they move to over 40% chance at keeping pick.

On flip side, they are back to back- most watched team in nba ( attendence in arena) so it's good business


And... to me, it feels like, they are one of those many nba teams who are more interested into making money than winning championships. Can't blame them, to me, it feels like 25 other teams are in same business ( that's why Lakers always win...because they actually prioritize winning ...)

[pepe1991]

I thought the Bulls were standing pat because the east is wide open with BKN dissolved.... they shouldve made deals

The East even without Brooklyn is decidedly not wide open.

Boston and Milwaukee are both legitimately great basketball teams. Philly is having a great season. Cleveland has 3 all-stars and is playing great.

The decision by Chicago (and Toronto) to not blow it up at the deadline was a pathetic one. Neither team has even a possibility of getting to the conference finals. Probably not even the 2nd round.

By wide open he probably ment making playoffs.

But let's not fool ourselfs, no matter who comes from 6,7 & 8th seed, especially ones who go on Celtics and Bucks, are going to get wracked in 4 games. Probably same faith vs Cavs.

To me, Celtics are massive favorites to win East.

Teams like Magic, Bulls, Raptors, Pacers, Hawks, Wizards will "fight it out" for playin spot, while having 42% win rate.

i find whole concept of playin laughable. Like...you are 5th worst team among 15 and you are awarded some bulls*** tournament that you can get in playoffs, while having 6,7,8 or even 10 wins less than 7th seed ? Why ? Because greedy nba needs more games?

[jezzerinho]

I thought the Bulls were standing pat because the east is wide open with BKN dissolved.... they shouldve made deals

The East even without Brooklyn is decidedly not wide open.

Boston and Milwaukee are both legitimately great basketball teams. Philly is having a great season. Cleveland has 3 all-stars and is playing great.

The decision by Chicago (and Toronto) to not blow it up at the deadline was a pathetic one. Neither team has even a possibility of getting to the conference finals. Probably not even the 2nd round.

By wide open he probably ment making playoffs.

But let's not fool ourselfs, no matter who comes from 6,7 & 8th seed, especially ones who go on Celtics and Bucks, are going to get wracked in 4 games. Probably same faith vs Cavs.

To me, Celtics are massive favorites to win East.

Teams like Magic, Bulls, Raptors, Pacers, Hawks, Wizards will "fight it out" for playin spot, while having 42% win rate.

i find whole concept of playin laughable. Like...you are 5th worst team among 15 and you are awarded some bulls*** tournament that you can get in playoffs, while having 6,7,8 or even 10 wins less than 7th seed ? Why ? Because greedy nba needs more games?

The playin is there to disincentivise tanking among middling teams who give up chasing the playoffs after the ASB. And it seems to be working pretty well in keeping 3 or 4 teams every year from stopping competing.

There are too many games in the NBA? Errrr, yeah.

Rewarding poor teams with a shot at the playoffs is awful? On the face of it yes but it's helping in other ways.

[pepe1991]

The East even without Brooklyn is decidedly not wide open.

Boston and Milwaukee are both legitimately great basketball teams. Philly is having a great season. Cleveland has 3 all-stars and is playing great.

The decision by Chicago (and Toronto) to not blow it up at the deadline was a pathetic one. Neither team has even a possibility of getting to the conference finals. Probably not even the 2nd round.

By wide open he probably ment making playoffs.

But let's not fool ourselfs, no matter who comes from 6,7 & 8th seed, especially ones who go on Celtics and Bucks, are going to get wracked in 4 games. Probably same faith vs Cavs.

To me, Celtics are massive favorites to win East.

Teams like Magic, Bulls, Raptors, Pacers, Hawks, Wizards will "fight it out" for playin spot, while having 42% win rate.

i find whole concept of playin laughable. Like...you are 5th worst team among 15 and you are awarded some bulls*** tournament that you can get in playoffs, while having 6,7,8 or even 10 wins less than 7th seed ? Why ? Because greedy nba needs more games?

The playin is there to disincentivise tanking among middling teams who give up chasing the playoffs after the ASB. And it seems to be working pretty well in keeping 3 or 4 teams every year from stopping competing.

There are too many games in the NBA? Errrr, yeah.

Rewarding poor teams with a shot at the playoffs is awful? On the face of it yes but it's helping in other ways.

It degenerates regular season even further, as it already is nothing but sleepwalking and half a***ing of 82 games where most teams don't play hard at all.
I've seen Bojan Bogdanovic interview with German media few days ago and he literally said that nobody plays hard in regular season ( he said in contrast of Euroleague where due less games & tournament that requires seeding teams actually go hard whenever they meet ).


There is apsolute zero reasons why should 46-36 team ( last year Wovles) and 34-48 team ( last year Spurs) still be in same position to make a playoffs, with exception that 12 wins less team, just needs to win 2 more games in mini tournament.
Fact that you are "in playoff hunt" with 40% win rate is ridicilous.

I still expect whole lot of awful games after allstar game when middeling teams gear up for tanks ( Pacers already started it ).

[Ralof]

Defense is really on another level,right now we are a top 10 defense,no question:last season was the same,with new year we turned the corner and start to defend like crazy,ended up 18th place if i remember correctly.
As last year,kudos to Mosley for that,the way we are defending the pick and roll is very good,with a bit of showing off until the outside defender did not recover,really is working.

Bulls started to play with a sense of urgency at half of 4th quarter,not the first time i saw them like that,seemed a bit of arrogant group to be honest,like contenders who think they can make it work without too effort,but clearly they are far from that level.

Basically anyone for us played a good game,especially Wagner...and Fultz

Tbh can not find the sense of keeping bol bol in prospective,99% of chances we will keep this core intact,why not taking at least a swing for a small forward who can give something"traditional"from the bench?
idk about the draft,but that would be the type of player i would look for and sell bol for whatever asset i can get in summer.

We missed Anthony from the bench,Suggs can not play as point guard and it is not even a matter of shooting,his handles are too limited.

[jezzerinho]

By wide open he probably ment making playoffs.

But let's not fool ourselfs, no matter who comes from 6,7 & 8th seed, especially ones who go on Celtics and Bucks, are going to get wracked in 4 games. Probably same faith vs Cavs.

To me, Celtics are massive favorites to win East.

Teams like Magic, Bulls, Raptors, Pacers, Hawks, Wizards will "fight it out" for playin spot, while having 42% win rate.

i find whole concept of playin laughable. Like...you are 5th worst team among 15 and you are awarded some bulls*** tournament that you can get in playoffs, while having 6,7,8 or even 10 wins less than 7th seed ? Why ? Because greedy nba needs more games?

The playin is there to disincentivise tanking among middling teams who give up chasing the playoffs after the ASB. And it seems to be working pretty well in keeping 3 or 4 teams every year from stopping competing.

There are too many games in the NBA? Errrr, yeah.

Rewarding poor teams with a shot at the playoffs is awful? On the face of it yes but it's helping in other ways.

It degenerates regular season even further, as it already is nothing but sleepwalking and half a***ing of 82 games where most teams don't play hard at all.
I've seen Bojan Bogdanovic interview with German media few days ago and he literally said that nobody plays hard in regular season ( he said in contrast of Euroleague where due less games & tournament that requires seeding teams actually go hard whenever they meet ).


There is apsolute zero reasons why should 46-36 team ( last year Wovles) and 34-48 team ( last year Spurs) still be in same position to make a playoffs, with exception that 12 wins less team, just needs to win 2 more games in mini tournament.
Fact that you are "in playoff hunt" with 40% win rate is ridicilous.

I still expect whole lot of awful games after allstar game when middeling teams gear up for tanks ( Pacers already started it ).

You're absolutely right, but I think that's happening independently of the playin discussion. Too many games, too attritional for players, so it's natural good teams take the foot off when they can.

[basketballRob]

Chicago are gonna be seller on draft night and Lavine will be available

I d rather go after Lavine than FVV

Draft day trade

Cole, Harris, Best of orl /chi pick, Denver FRP, and many 2nds



Fultz,suggs
Lavine, Houstan
Franz,bol,chuma
PB, JI,chuma
WCJ, Moe,goga

+2023 FRP +vet PG in FA

He has 4 yrs. $178M left on his contract and averages 60 games a year because of his chronic knee problems. Plus, you would have to trade for him.

If you want to take a chance on a player, offer Middleton 4 yrs. $120M and don't give up any assets.



Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[cedric76]

Chicago are gonna be seller on draft night and Lavine will be available

I d rather go after Lavine than FVV

Draft day trade

Cole, Harris, Best of orl /chi pick, Denver FRP, and many 2nds



Fultz,suggs
Lavine, Houstan
Franz,bol,chuma
PB, JI,chuma
WCJ, Moe,goga

+2023 FRP +vet PG in FA

He has 4 yrs. $178M left on his contract and averages 60 games a year because of his chronic knee problems. Plus, you would have to trade for him.

If you want to take a chance on a player, offer Middleton 4 yrs. $120M and don't give up any assets.



Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

I m not a fan of Lavine but he is only 27 and could be a really good 3rd option

Almost perfect SG for this team and he is locked for yrs

[pepe1991]

The playin is there to disincentivise tanking among middling teams who give up chasing the playoffs after the ASB. And it seems to be working pretty well in keeping 3 or 4 teams every year from stopping competing.

There are too many games in the NBA? Errrr, yeah.

Rewarding poor teams with a shot at the playoffs is awful? On the face of it yes but it's helping in other ways.

It degenerates regular season even further, as it already is nothing but sleepwalking and half a***ing of 82 games where most teams don't play hard at all.
I've seen Bojan Bogdanovic interview with German media few days ago and he literally said that nobody plays hard in regular season ( he said in contrast of Euroleague where due less games & tournament that requires seeding teams actually go hard whenever they meet ).


There is apsolute zero reasons why should 46-36 team ( last year Wovles) and 34-48 team ( last year Spurs) still be in same position to make a playoffs, with exception that 12 wins less team, just needs to win 2 more games in mini tournament.
Fact that you are "in playoff hunt" with 40% win rate is ridicilous.

I still expect whole lot of awful games after allstar game when middeling teams gear up for tanks ( Pacers already started it ).

You're absolutely right, but I think that's happening independently of the playin discussion. Too many games, too attritional for players, so it's natural good teams take the foot off when they can.

I've tried to play basketball 5 times a week ( 2-2 and half hours) and attend gym 3 times a week last year for about 5 months.
Amount of tress, pain and soarness was epic. I don't blame players for not playing hard, i balme greedy executives that voted for play in to add more games. Fact that Silver wanted to implement mid season tournament says a lot about their desire to just expend games to as many as it's possible.

It would make more sense to streach season longer. For example from mid August to May than keep adding more games into already troublesome schedule.

[Bergmaniac]

The Bulls are a textbook example of a team that badly need a PG. Just dreadful offensive performance and on so many possessions they looked completely clueless. Sure, we played very good D, but they helped us a lot with their pointless side to side passing and incredibly bad shooting from 3. Lavine is really talented and athletic, but just not a smart player, he keeps jumping into the air without having an idea what to do and committing turnovers and he forces tough shots.

The bench looked very rough offensively without Cole. Especially in the minutes they played without Franz we looked completely awful on offense. Playing some weird lineups didin't help, at some point in the first quarter we played Bol Bol, Fultz, Suggs and Isaac together and the spacing was a complete mess and predictably they did nothing on offense. The starters pulled this one off for a change, they played excellent D and did enough on offense, though it wasn't pretty most of the night. Fultz was very good, scored pretty well and had 9 assists without a turnover. Franz was very efficient and got some big threes in key moments, he also played very well defensively. Harris had 3 steals and overall very nice defensive performance too.

Banchero's 3s lately seems to be almost always short. He is probably quite tired, the All-Star break should help with this. He still found ways to contribute, but I don't like the way we use him on offense, there is too many possessions when the goal is to get him a 3 even though he is not a good shooter or we just give him the ball at the top of the key and hope he creates something out of nothing. I want to see more plays where he rolls to the basket or other ways to get him the ball closer to the basket where he is stronger.

[eyriq]

I read that the mid-season tournament will only add an extra game to the regular season for the finalists, otherwise it's the same 82 games.

As for the play-in, it makes the regular season much more competitive. It's gives more teams a chance to make the playoffs. It gives a new level of urgency to teams already in the playoff picture to get into the top 6. It removes the incentive for teams in the playoff picture to rest their players. Win, win, win.

[pepe1991]

The Bulls are a textbook example of a team that badly need a PG. Just dreadful offensive performance and on so many possessions they looked completely clueless. Sure, we played very good D, but they helped us a lot with their pointless side to side passing and incredibly bad shooting from 3. Lavine is really talented and athletic, but just not a smart player, he keeps jumping into the air without having an idea what to do and committing turnovers and he forces tough shots.

The bench looked very rough offensively without Cole. Especially in the minutes they played without Franz we looked completely awful on offense. Playing some weird lineups didin't help, at some point in the first quarter we played Bol Bol, Fultz, Suggs and Isaac together and the spacing was a complete mess and predictably they did nothing on offense. The starters pulled this one off for a change, they played excellent D and did enough on offense, though it wasn't pretty most of the night. Fultz was very good, scored pretty well and had 9 assists without a turnover. Franz was very efficient and got some big threes in key moments, he also played very well defensively. Harris had 3 steals and overall very nice defensive performance too.

Banchero's 3s lately seems to be almost always short. He is probably quite tired, the All-Star break should help with this. He still found ways to contribute, but I don't like the way we use him on offense, there is too many possessions when the goal is to get him a 3 even though he is not a good shooter or we just give him the ball at the top of the key and hope he creates something out of nothing. I want to see more plays where he rolls to the basket or other ways to get him the ball closer to the basket where he is stronger.

To play it simple: Bulls are 2021-22 version of Knicks.

They struggle to initiate offense and distribute balls, in vast majority of games Vuc is their best playmaker and complete lack of reliable playmaking is dragging everybody down the drain.

Copy past same scenario was with Knicks without Brunson. Now out of nowhere, with fairly identical roster to last year+ Brunson, Knicks are in play to win 48-50 games. + Addition of Josh Hart will be massive for them. One of most underrated nba players in general.

[jonbob17]

I thought the Bulls were standing pat because the east is wide open with BKN dissolved.... they shouldve made deals

The East even without Brooklyn is decidedly not wide open.

Boston and Milwaukee are both legitimately great basketball teams. Philly is having a great season. Cleveland has 3 all-stars and is playing great.

The decision by Chicago (and Toronto) to not blow it up at the deadline was a pathetic one. Neither team has even a possibility of getting to the conference finals. Probably not even the 2nd round.

By wide open he probably ment making playoffs.

But let's not fool ourselfs, no matter who comes from 6,7 & 8th seed, especially ones who go on Celtics and Bucks, are going to get wracked in 4 games. Probably same faith vs Cavs.

To me, Celtics are massive favorites to win East.

Teams like Magic, Bulls, Raptors, Pacers, Hawks, Wizards will "fight it out" for playin spot, while having 42% win rate.

i find whole concept of playin laughable. Like...you are 5th worst team among 15 and you are awarded some bulls*** tournament that you can get in playoffs, while having 6,7,8 or even 10 wins less than 7th seed ? Why ? Because greedy nba needs more games?

Yah, i agree it's ridiculous. The season is 82 games long, frankly it would probably be more fair to the better teams to have 4 teams from each conference. Trying to keep guys healthy after 82 games and then potentially 4 more 7 game series. Plus it's kind of tough as fans to stay interested in the playoffs that last 2 months

Less is more. Frankly if only 4 teams made the playoffs the 82 game regular season would have a lot more value, and guys wouldn't sit out as much...OF course if only 4 teams are making the playoffs...I guess tanking becomes a bigger issue. I guess its a catch 22.... but still we are screwing over the 7th and 8th seeds. They could potentially beat the 10th seed by 10 games during the regular season, and then reward that 10th seed on single/couple games.

[Bergmaniac]

Yeah, I watched a lot of Knicks games this season, it was always obvious they will improve massively with a good PG. Their PG play last season was hilariously bad. They played Alec Burks at PG a lot who has no vision whatsover and is a chucker at heart.

[eyriq]

The East even without Brooklyn is decidedly not wide open.

Boston and Milwaukee are both legitimately great basketball teams. Philly is having a great season. Cleveland has 3 all-stars and is playing great.

The decision by Chicago (and Toronto) to not blow it up at the deadline was a pathetic one. Neither team has even a possibility of getting to the conference finals. Probably not even the 2nd round.

By wide open he probably ment making playoffs.

But let's not fool ourselfs, no matter who comes from 6,7 & 8th seed, especially ones who go on Celtics and Bucks, are going to get wracked in 4 games. Probably same faith vs Cavs.

To me, Celtics are massive favorites to win East.

Teams like Magic, Bulls, Raptors, Pacers, Hawks, Wizards will "fight it out" for playin spot, while having 42% win rate.

i find whole concept of playin laughable. Like...you are 5th worst team among 15 and you are awarded some bulls*** tournament that you can get in playoffs, while having 6,7,8 or even 10 wins less than 7th seed ? Why ? Because greedy nba needs more games?

Yah, i agree it's ridiculous. The season is 82 games long, frankly it would probably be more fair to the better teams to have 4 teams from each conference. Trying to keep guys healthy after 82 games and then potentially 4 more 7 game series. Plus it's kind of tough as fans to stay interested in the playoffs that last 2 months.... but still we are screwing over the 7th and 8th seeds. They could potentially beat the 10th seed by 10 games during the regular season, and then reward that 10th seed on single/couple games.

Less is more. Frankly if only 4 teams made the playoffs the 82 game regular season would have a lot more value, and guys wouldn't sit out as much...OF course if only 4 teams are making the playoffs...I guess tanking becomes a bigger issue. I guess its a catch 22

I have no idea what problem a 4 team playoff is the answer to.

[JoshuaPotter]

A nice win that helps us in way more ways then 1. We also got to see life without Cole Anthony and our team didn't implode. Fultz even took 2 3pta which I don't care if he missed both he gets credit just for shooting em.