Woj: Isaac Out for the Year After Surgery on Torn Adductor

[fendilim]

ehh, i would majorly debate that. he couldnt stay healthy from day 1. only played 27 games his rookie year. played 75 his 2nd, then 34 games his 3rd year. he was not "one of the healthiest players" at all.

he did prove he can.

And we all know the third year, management got blamed for bringing him back early in the bubble.

Its not like management did act irresponsibly that time

bring him back early from what? an injury? he started the season playing 32 of 34 games, then got injured again. sorry, but dude is made of glass. he just cant stay healthy

Lol did you forget that when he suffered the mcl, the team opted to just therapy him instead of going under the knife. So when he got injured again during the bubble, the team got some heat because JI’s injury is on the same knee that the team chose to therapy instead of surgically repair.

That’s why woj reported his rehab for the bubble injury will be significantly longer.

[The Effect]

What are we going to do with his 17 mil cap space next season? Literally nothing. In fact if we waived his full cap amount and used it, we probably made a mistake and did a move way too early in the rebuild process.

The injury is unrelated to his history which is a good sign. And now we are looking at what is he worth on the cap sheet the next time a deal is discussed. Because maybe you waive him this summer and use ORL's cap space to resign him for under 10 mil a year, which is way too good of a health project to pass up. The Magic already did it with Fultz and Okeke.

No, its not

It shows just how injury prone he is. Its not a reoccuring injury or relapse, its more proof that his body as a whole is not built for the NBA


This is irrelevant to below.

You all can overreact with emotion, but all of that is just the facts to me. If no team out there goes full stupid and offers him 14+ mil a year, we are in the driver's seat to get an insane piece cheap. Banchero is literally a rookie and you don't want to find out Isaac became 70-100% healthy in 3 seasons when Banchero is literally still on a rookie contract. All because you were feeling "frustrated" and "done".

Theres literally no point trying to argue with this level of dilusion. Dude has been injured for 6 years straight, with numorous different injuries, missed 70% of his games, ended every single season on IR and theres still people who think "one day he will be 100% healthy"........just......wow

I don't know how to explain this another way.. umm.. think of it like this: if you pay a player 7 mil a year and then he is 80% healthy for half of his seasons and their playoff runs, but then he plays like a DPOY and his length gives him easy offense from 3's to put-backs, you take it and run like you stole a bank. Again, you have to use pure cold reasoning and not drop him forever because you were feeling "frustrated" and "done".

If or when JI is renegotiated, think of 7-10 mil on something like a cap level of 134 mil before luxury tax. Would you be okay if 5% of your cap space is used on a player who would basically impact the game on the same level of other teams' players who are 20% of the their cap space? Or would you rather spend 7 mil a year on Dewayne Dedmon's last year in the league type of players that we would normally get?

This has nothing to do with emotion
THis is about using common sense to see hes a lost cause

Hes literally missed 70% of games the past 6 years, ended ever year on IR only ever played more than 25 games once. You dont risk any amount of capspace or roster spot on someone like that. Also, youre basing all of this on the assumption that if he ever does play 80% of games, that hes some all world nba defensive player, that seems like alot of risk for a such a tiny % chance of something happening.
But by your reasoning, why did we trade away mo bamba? I know hes done pretty muching for 5 years, but if he he ever became kobe-level motivated to be great, he could be one of the best players in the nba. I mean you saw what he did that one game where Embiid challenged him and they went toe-to-toe all game. If he played like that for 80% of games for a season, he would be the MVP of the league, seems like a legit risk for only 10m a season

Im sorry but of the 2 of us, youre the one that seems to have some emotional attachment to JI and refuse to accept that hes a broken player who doesnt have the body that can hold up against an NBA season but because he did one thing well 4 years ago cant let him go

[eyriq]

He's a significant but inconsequential asset for this rebuild. Like, whatever he contributes going forward is found money. We've blown it up while he's been injured and he doesn't factor into this team's rebuild roadmap IMO. I'll also not miss his arrogant name dropping every chance he gets, nor how our talking heads refer to him as having faith and being good. Just GTFO with that nonsense and definitely don't hype up his next return should it ever happen.

[swarlesbarkley]

he did prove he can.

And we all know the third year, management got blamed for bringing him back early in the bubble.

Its not like management did act irresponsibly that time

bring him back early from what? an injury? he started the season playing 32 of 34 games, then got injured again. sorry, but dude is made of glass. he just cant stay healthy

Lol did you forget that when he suffered the mcl, the team opted to just therapy him instead of going under the knife. So when he got injured again during the bubble, the team got some heat because JI’s injury is on the same knee that the team chose to therapy instead of surgically repair.

That’s why woj reported his rehab for the bubble injury will be significantly longer.

You sure it was the team's decision? I remember it being JI's decision and that it was the first hint that maybe JI didn't care to get back on the court quickly since he opted for a 2-3x longer rehab process...

[swarlesbarkley]

Delusional is the people who say just cut him. We have to pay him $8.4M regardless, and we have until January 10, 2024, to make a decision.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

I think it's mostly a sad victory lap for the "JI haters". As someone who has been called a JI hater - it does feel a little vindicating knowing I've been saying at best he'll be a questionable 20 minutes a night guy for the rest of his career while JI homers were saying the FO was holding him back and there was no set back in his rehab and he could still be an all-defensive player.

But it's sad because it's terribly unfortunate for JI and the Orlando Magic.

[Knightro]

There's no reason to cut him... yet.

They should try and stick him in every possible trade this offseason as a salary filler and see if someone bites.

If no one bites, then you can pull the plug.

[dsg2021]

No, its not

It shows just how injury prone he is. Its not a reoccuring injury or relapse, its more proof that his body as a whole is not built for the NBA


This is irrelevant to below.

Theres literally no point trying to argue with this level of dilusion. Dude has been injured for 6 years straight, with numorous different injuries, missed 70% of his games, ended every single season on IR and theres still people who think "one day he will be 100% healthy"........just......wow

I don't know how to explain this another way.. umm.. think of it like this: if you pay a player 7 mil a year and then he is 80% healthy for half of his seasons and their playoff runs, but then he plays like a DPOY and his length gives him easy offense from 3's to put-backs, you take it and run like you stole a bank. Again, you have to use pure cold reasoning and not drop him forever because you were feeling "frustrated" and "done".

If or when JI is renegotiated, think of 7-10 mil on something like a cap level of 134 mil before luxury tax. Would you be okay if 5% of your cap space is used on a player who would basically impact the game on the same level of other teams' players who are 20% of the their cap space? Or would you rather spend 7 mil a year on Dewayne Dedmon's last year in the league type of players that we would normally get?

This has nothing to do with emotion
THis is about using common sense to see hes a lost cause

Hes literally missed 70% of games the past 6 years, ended ever year on IR only ever played more than 25 games once. You dont risk any amount of capspace or roster spot on someone like that.

Yes, you do use about 5% of the cap space on that. There's no player who could give a bigger impact for that % of the year's cap space.


Also, youre basing all of this on the assumption that if he ever does play 80% of games, that hes some all world nba defensive player, that seems like alot of risk for a such a tiny % chance of something happening.

Wth? lol. Have you not seen him play this year? Like I don't care if he even improves or plays better moving forward, he is already a tremendous defensive presence. "Seems like a lot of risk?" This part really blows my mind because how is using up 5% of your season's cap space on a health project a lot of risk?

But by your reasoning, why did we trade away mo bamba? I know hes done pretty muching for 5 years, but if he he ever became kobe-level motivated to be great, he could be one of the best players in the nba. I mean you saw what he did that one game where Embiid challenged him and they went toe-to-toe all game. If he played like that for 80% of games for a season, he would be the MVP of the league, seems like a legit risk for only 10m a season

This is the same thing as above. Did you not see JI play versus Bamba play this year? It was pretty obvious who had the bigger impact.

Im sorry but of the 2 of us, youre the one that seems to have some emotional attachment to JI and refuse to accept that hes a broken player who doesnt have the body that can hold up against an NBA season but because he did one thing well 4 years ago cant let him go

Any emotion I have is in the semi-shock of the responses from everyone. I would say that I have less emotional attachment than everyone here. He is paid until January. He is unguaranteed money which is a big trade chip without even looking at the player yet. And then I see a future 7 million player who can often have a 15-20 million impact on the floor. If/As he is Mr. Brittle, I'd look at playing him 10-20 reg season games so that he is healthy for 60-100% of the playoffs games as well. And I wouldn't pay him more than about 5% of the cap or so. I have made very clear, logical lines here in the sand.
There are big reasons for keeping a highly defensive, lengthy player like JI, who literally has a touch of offense as well (within, again, the lines of the sand like 1) "Do we need his cap space to waive him for an impact FA that fits the timeline now? Do it." and 2) "When it happens, does he resign with us for 5% of the cap space? Do it." I don't even see JI as a Magic player anymore, I see it as "Our best players are a first year rookie and a second year sophomore. So what other time than now is more perfect for a health project player that whenever available is the team's best defensive player and has a high floor for plug-and-play?"

[dsg2021]

There's no reason to cut him... yet.

They should try and stick him in every possible trade this offseason as a salary filler and see if someone bites.

If no one bites, then you can pull the plug.

I'm interested to see your response here.

Imagine that JI and the Magic are close to a new deal that pays JI about 4% of the team's cap space amount. This is about a 6 million per year contract with partial or full unguaranteeds.

Do you want to pull the plug before and avoid those discussions and new deal?
If you didn't pull the plug and at least had the discussions, reached the 6 mil per year amount, what would you do next?
If you didn't take JI for 6 mil a year, who did you spend it on instead?

[JF5]

There's no reason to cut him... yet.

They should try and stick him in every possible trade this offseason as a salary filler and see if someone bites.

If no one bites, then you can pull the plug.

I'm interested to see your response here.

Imagine that JI and the Magic are close to a new deal that pays JI about 4% of the team's cap space amount. This is about a 6 million per year contract with partial or full unguaranteeds.

Do you want to pull the plug before and avoid those discussions and new deal?
If you didn't pull the plug and at least had the discussions, reached the 6 mil per year amount, what would you do next?
If you didn't take JI for 6 mil a year, who did you spend it on instead?

I was thinking about this... the injury isn't a serious enough one like an ACL. Plus, having him at 7-8 per year given what he can do is a major plus.

It's just the availability factor...

[RichCollab]

Magic’s biggest issue is health. Moving on from JI is a great first step to addressing that. We aren’t going to get value back for JI so I’m not in a hurry to cut JI. Can we get him on a contract under 10 million a year with no guarantee money it’s easier to hold him.

[JoshuaPotter]

He's a significant but inconsequential asset for this rebuild. Like, whatever he contributes going forward is found money. We've blown it up while he's been injured and he doesn't factor into this team's rebuild roadmap IMO. I'll also not miss his arrogant name dropping every chance he gets, nor how our talking heads refer to him as having faith and being good. Just GTFO with that nonsense and definitely don't hype up his next return should it ever happen.

I will give you the and 1 for the unusually assertive hot take.

[eyriq]

He's a significant but inconsequential asset for this rebuild. Like, whatever he contributes going forward is found money. We've blown it up while he's been injured and he doesn't factor into this team's rebuild roadmap IMO. I'll also not miss his arrogant name dropping every chance he gets, nor how our talking heads refer to him as having faith and being good. Just GTFO with that nonsense and definitely don't hype up his next return should it ever happen.

I will give you the and 1 for the unusually assertive hot take.

Haha, I was feeling spicy

[JoshuaPotter]

He's a significant but inconsequential asset for this rebuild. Like, whatever he contributes going forward is found money. We've blown it up while he's been injured and he doesn't factor into this team's rebuild roadmap IMO. I'll also not miss his arrogant name dropping every chance he gets, nor how our talking heads refer to him as having faith and being good. Just GTFO with that nonsense and definitely don't hype up his next return should it ever happen.

I will give you the and 1 for the unusually assertive hot take.

Haha, I was feeling spicy

I get you. As far spicy as I am willing to go here is to just wish him good luck and consider turning him loose while he can still be healthy enough to chase down an JI Jr should he have kids. (If his faith even allows that?)

Edit : I can't see an issue with holding him to the end of his contract, and just not offering a new one. Or using it as filler.

[yoyojw17]

I don't know how to explain this another way.. umm.. think of it like this: if you pay a player 7 mil a year and then he is 80% healthy for half of his seasons and their playoff runs, but then he plays like a DPOY and his length gives him easy offense from 3's to put-backs, you take it and run like you stole a bank. Again, you have to use pure cold reasoning and not drop him forever because you were feeling "frustrated" and "done".

If or when JI is renegotiated, think of 7-10 mil on something like a cap level of 134 mil before luxury tax. Would you be okay if 5% of your cap space is used on a player who would basically impact the game on the same level of other teams' players who are 20% of the their cap space? Or would you rather spend 7 mil a year on Dewayne Dedmon's last year in the league type of players that we would normally get?

This has nothing to do with emotion
THis is about using common sense to see hes a lost cause

Hes literally missed 70% of games the past 6 years, ended ever year on IR only ever played more than 25 games once. You dont risk any amount of capspace or roster spot on someone like that.

Yes, you do use about 5% of the cap space on that. There's no player who could give a bigger impact for that % of the year's cap space.


Also, youre basing all of this on the assumption that if he ever does play 80% of games, that hes some all world nba defensive player, that seems like alot of risk for a such a tiny % chance of something happening.

Wth? lol. Have you not seen him play this year? Like I don't care if he even improves or plays better moving forward, he is already a tremendous defensive presence. "Seems like a lot of risk?" This part really blows my mind because how is using up 5% of your season's cap space on a health project a lot of risk?

But by your reasoning, why did we trade away mo bamba? I know hes done pretty muching for 5 years, but if he he ever became kobe-level motivated to be great, he could be one of the best players in the nba. I mean you saw what he did that one game where Embiid challenged him and they went toe-to-toe all game. If he played like that for 80% of games for a season, he would be the MVP of the league, seems like a legit risk for only 10m a season

This is the same thing as above. Did you not see JI play versus Bamba play this year? It was pretty obvious who had the bigger impact.

Im sorry but of the 2 of us, youre the one that seems to have some emotional attachment to JI and refuse to accept that hes a broken player who doesnt have the body that can hold up against an NBA season but because he did one thing well 4 years ago cant let him go

Any emotion I have is in the semi-shock of the responses from everyone. I would say that I have less emotional attachment than everyone here. He is paid until January. He is unguaranteed money which is a big trade chip without even looking at the player yet. And then I see a future 7 million player who can often have a 15-20 million impact on the floor. If/As he is Mr. Brittle, I'd look at playing him 10-20 reg season games so that he is healthy for 60-100% of the playoffs games as well. And I wouldn't pay him more than about 5% of the cap or so. I have made very clear, logical lines here in the sand.
There are big reasons for keeping a highly defensive, lengthy player like JI, who literally has a touch of offense as well (within, again, the lines of the sand like 1) "Do we need his cap space to waive him for an impact FA that fits the timeline now? Do it." and 2) "When it happens, does he resign with us for 5% of the cap space? Do it." I don't even see JI as a Magic player anymore, I see it as "Our best players are a first year rookie and a second year sophomore. So what other time than now is more perfect for a health project player that whenever available is the team's best defensive player and has a high floor for plug-and-play?"

I'm in this camp... and I think MCW is a precursor to the possibility! If he needs time to get right ... and we need the money.... waive him.... he still get paid in a sense ... and do so with open communication to possibly welcome him back with open arms... and hopes that he is healthy. Definitely one of my favorite players on the team and i wish him a long career with us.

[swarlesbarkley]

he did prove he can.

And we all know the third year, management got blamed for bringing him back early in the bubble.

Its not like management did act irresponsibly that time

bring him back early from what? an injury? he started the season playing 32 of 34 games, then got injured again. sorry, but dude is made of glass. he just cant stay healthy

Lol did you forget that when he suffered the mcl, the team opted to just therapy him instead of going under the knife. So when he got injured again during the bubble, the team got some heat because JI’s injury is on the same knee that the team chose to therapy instead of surgically repair.

That’s why woj reported his rehab for the bubble injury will be significantly longer.

You remember it being the team's decision to not do surgery, I remember it being JI's decision. I can't find any articles on this now... do you have anything to correct my memory?

[Skybox]

This has nothing to do with emotion
THis is about using common sense to see hes a lost cause

Hes literally missed 70% of games the past 6 years, ended ever year on IR only ever played more than 25 games once. You dont risk any amount of capspace or roster spot on someone like that.

Yes, you do use about 5% of the cap space on that. There's no player who could give a bigger impact for that % of the year's cap space.


Also, youre basing all of this on the assumption that if he ever does play 80% of games, that hes some all world nba defensive player, that seems like alot of risk for a such a tiny % chance of something happening.

Wth? lol. Have you not seen him play this year? Like I don't care if he even improves or plays better moving forward, he is already a tremendous defensive presence. "Seems like a lot of risk?" This part really blows my mind because how is using up 5% of your season's cap space on a health project a lot of risk?

But by your reasoning, why did we trade away mo bamba? I know hes done pretty muching for 5 years, but if he he ever became kobe-level motivated to be great, he could be one of the best players in the nba. I mean you saw what he did that one game where Embiid challenged him and they went toe-to-toe all game. If he played like that for 80% of games for a season, he would be the MVP of the league, seems like a legit risk for only 10m a season

This is the same thing as above. Did you not see JI play versus Bamba play this year? It was pretty obvious who had the bigger impact.

Im sorry but of the 2 of us, youre the one that seems to have some emotional attachment to JI and refuse to accept that hes a broken player who doesnt have the body that can hold up against an NBA season but because he did one thing well 4 years ago cant let him go

Any emotion I have is in the semi-shock of the responses from everyone. I would say that I have less emotional attachment than everyone here. He is paid until January. He is unguaranteed money which is a big trade chip without even looking at the player yet. And then I see a future 7 million player who can often have a 15-20 million impact on the floor. If/As he is Mr. Brittle, I'd look at playing him 10-20 reg season games so that he is healthy for 60-100% of the playoffs games as well. And I wouldn't pay him more than about 5% of the cap or so. I have made very clear, logical lines here in the sand.
There are big reasons for keeping a highly defensive, lengthy player like JI, who literally has a touch of offense as well (within, again, the lines of the sand like 1) "Do we need his cap space to waive him for an impact FA that fits the timeline now? Do it." and 2) "When it happens, does he resign with us for 5% of the cap space? Do it." I don't even see JI as a Magic player anymore, I see it as "Our best players are a first year rookie and a second year sophomore. So what other time than now is more perfect for a health project player that whenever available is the team's best defensive player and has a high floor for plug-and-play?"

I'm in this camp... and I think MCW is a precursor to the possibility! If he needs time to get right ... and we need the money.... waive him.... he still get paid in a sense ... and do so with open communication to possibly welcome him back with open arms... and hopes that he is healthy. Definitely one of my favorite players on the team and i wish him a long career with us.

Agree. I'm a huge fan of what he brings but it's over...and the idea that he comes back on a $5m deal because we were "loyal and patient" is not reality. We bet and we lost. No regrets - move forward. Spend that money elsewhere.

[fendilim]

bring him back early from what? an injury? he started the season playing 32 of 34 games, then got injured again. sorry, but dude is made of glass. he just cant stay healthy

Lol did you forget that when he suffered the mcl, the team opted to just therapy him instead of going under the knife. So when he got injured again during the bubble, the team got some heat because JI’s injury is on the same knee that the team chose to therapy instead of surgically repair.

That’s why woj reported his rehab for the bubble injury will be significantly longer.

You remember it being the team's decision to not do surgery, I remember it being JI's decision. I can't find any articles on this now... do you have anything to correct my memory?

didnt find any report about that. But i do recall the initial assessment of his injury after the mri being positive, but the team later said there was no structural damage and downgraded it to a severe sprain instead.

[SHAQ32]

Vaginal tear

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Y’all are crazy if you think Isaac would pass a physical to allow a trade. That would also mean a GM has been under a rock the last 4 years and doesn’t know he’s broken.

[OrlandoSaban]

Read on Twitter

Time to cut ties.. I’m over trying to support this dude