Trade Discussion 22/23

[daoneandonly]

Anyway, hope everyone has been praying to the basketball gods to keep the 10th pick or move up. That's when the real offseason starts.

You can stop worrying for a second now. Just money penalty

Read on Twitter

20% chance of Knicks keeping the pick. 1/5 feels like a "high" chance of losing the pick.

Factoring in Mavs lottery woes, seems like 82% chance

Shaq draft, worst team, 4th pick
Webber/Penny draft, worst team, 4th pick
Luka draft, won a coin toss against Atl, they jumped us essentially costing us a pick
Zion/ja draft, tied with the 2 teams who "won" and got the 1st and 2nd picks

[BeiBeau]

Anyway, back to basketball.

Didn't Grant say a while back he wants a lot of money? But i'm not sure, i just thought i read it somewhere. Otherwise i think he would be great for MLE. And basically i like all your suggestions. It's just sometimes talent is there and this FO fails to see it.

I think this team is in such a desperation mode that basically anyone could start if he is at least able to play any lick of defense and grab rebounds But i would still target bigger athletic players that you can switch between center and PF.

Dallas can receive sign and trades this offseason correct? Maybe a Reggie Bullock expiring + Cash for Grant Williams sign and trade at 4/72M. Boston gets a backup 3 and D role player gets some return for Williams who is probably going to walk meanwhile Dallas gets a bigger bodied serious upgrade on the wing.

You're correct. Boston could even receive back trade exception if teams agree to that or whatever deal they make. If they re-sign Kyrie though, Mavs can only get back players with salary values up to 10M over their cap.

I hope you understand now why i tried to tell you yesterday about all those contracts of Bullock, Bertans and THJ which basically skyrocket Mavs cap to almost luxury treshold. In this case, Mavs can not do a sign and trade if they're above that. So yeah, Nico will have quite an interesting off season.

They just have to stay under the apron at 162M, they're on the books for 108.6 but they can renounce the QO for Wright and Lawson to get to 105.1. First Year on the Kyrie contract is 46.9 I believe putting them at 152. So as long as they're sending out Bullock's 10.5 they should be able to receive 20?

[Archx]

I hate Green because of the FO's decision to draft him over 2 guys who pretty much every mock draft and expert had ahead of him, and another guy who several others did who happened to play across the street at TCU, so the Mavs scouting team should have known better.

He had the most forgettable first 2 seasons, and this past season, where he improved, the team was garbage any way (for various reasons), so its not like we can say he's a difference maker.

Come on man, let it go I showed you in other thread that Mavs didn't even target players you wish they had drafted. I see no reason to hate Green for that. At least he is rapidly improving which is a great sign for this team moving forward. Would make much more sense if you wrote that you hate Cuban and Nico lol.

Oh I have a strong dislike for both, I stopped watching Shark Tank mostly because of Cuban . ANd the hohe guy has proven basketball is not in his wheelhouse

But Arch, its the snow ball effect. Think about all that has happened since 2020. If we drafted a maxey or Bane instead of Green, would losing Brunson even be an issue? We probably could have comfortably traded him tbh. WOuld we even have had to make that terrible trade with the Wizards? Stands to reason probably not because we wouldnt have needed a Dinwiddie.

Looking at the bigger picture, i don't disagree with you. But it's just it is what it is at this point. We can't change the past.

It basically already started with that embarrassing half time trade of Barnes. Then Curry for Jrich trade, which i'm still mad to this day. I remember writing on this forum like a day before, whatever you do, don't trade Curry... Bam, next day they trade him and later on it proved to be a huge blunder.

So yeah, KP trade was rushed but eventually lead to Kyrie. Is that a good or a bad thing? I guess we'll see soon enough.

20% chance of Knicks keeping the pick. 1/5 feels like a "high" chance of losing the pick.

That's why i said only "for a second"

[Archx]

Spoiler:

Dallas can receive sign and trades this offseason correct? Maybe a Reggie Bullock expiring + Cash for Grant Williams sign and trade at 4/72M. Boston gets a backup 3 and D role player gets some return for Williams who is probably going to walk meanwhile Dallas gets a bigger bodied serious upgrade on the wing.

You're correct. Boston could even receive back trade exception if teams agree to that or whatever deal they make. If they re-sign Kyrie though, Mavs can only get back players with salary values up to 10M over their cap.

I hope you understand now why i tried to tell you yesterday about all those contracts of Bullock, Bertans and THJ which basically skyrocket Mavs cap to almost luxury treshold. In this case, Mavs can not do a sign and trade if they're above that. So yeah, Nico will have quite an interesting off season.

They just have to stay under the apron at 162M, they're on the books for 108.6 but they can renounce the QO for Wright and Lawson to get to 105.1. First Year on the Kyrie contract is 46.9 I believe putting them at 152. So as long as they're sending out Bullock's 10.5 they should be able to receive 20?

Lawson is already a two way contract which is not included in salary cap. So it's fine.

Otherwise, yeah you're correct.

I don't know how they'll structure Kyries contract to make it work, his max is 274/5, so that puts him at 54.8M per year. While other teams can only offer him 201M. I hope Cuban is not dumb enough to offer that.

[BeiBeau]

Spoiler:

You're correct. Boston could even receive back trade exception if teams agree to that or whatever deal they make. If they re-sign Kyrie though, Mavs can only get back players with salary values up to 10M over their cap.

I hope you understand now why i tried to tell you yesterday about all those contracts of Bullock, Bertans and THJ which basically skyrocket Mavs cap to almost luxury treshold. In this case, Mavs can not do a sign and trade if they're above that. So yeah, Nico will have quite an interesting off season.

They just have to stay under the apron at 162M, they're on the books for 108.6 but they can renounce the QO for Wright and Lawson to get to 105.1. First Year on the Kyrie contract is 46.9 I believe putting them at 152. So as long as they're sending out Bullock's 10.5 they should be able to receive 20?

Lawson is already a two way contract which is not included in salary cap. So it's fine.

Otherwise, yeah you're correct.

I don't know how they'll structure Kyries contract to make it work, his max is 274/5, so that puts him at 54.8M per year. While other teams can only offer him 201M. I hope Cuban is not dumb enough to offer that.

I think it will end up a 4 year. Kyrie wanted 4/198.5 from the Nets and they said no. The max 4 year dallas could do is 210.

[daoneandonly]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but he's just too unreliable and tempermental to offer that kind of money to. He needs to go to a place where there will eb structure he may actually respect, like LAL with Lebron, or Mia with Riley. That key ingredient is missing here sadly.

[Captain_Obvious]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but he's just too unreliable and tempermental to offer that kind of money to. He needs to go to a place where there will eb structure he may actually respect, like LAL with Lebron, or Mia with Riley. That key ingredient is missing here sadly.

You are kicking a dead horse. It got repetitive 4 weeks ago

[BeiBeau]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but he's just too unreliable and tempermental to offer that kind of money to. He needs to go to a place where there will eb structure he may actually respect, like LAL with Lebron, or Mia with Riley. That key ingredient is missing here sadly.

I'm willing to eat crow on this in the future but Kyrie's reputation precedes him. The Cleveland stuff and Boston stuff is always over blown. He wanted to be the man when he was 24, who cares. Yeah I know he said he'd resign in Boston and then changed his mind, who cares, as a Patriots fans, I know first hand that Boston has one of the most vile and racist fanbases that ever lived. The only things I have a problem with is the vaccine status and the anti semitic tweet. Trust me I think it's dumb as hell, I literally won an award for my undergraduate thesis which had a conclusion all about how we should require everyone to get vaccinated except for medically necessary in cases. However, Kyrie is not the only unvaccinated player in the NBA but he is the only player who gets suspended or talked about in the media for his vaccine status, that's not a defense for his refusal, but for someone who already has mental health issues being targeted like that when we know and he knows other players are unvaccinated can't be good for him.

Dallas made an effort to keep the media in check when Kyrie came as to not agitate any problems, he is undeniably an insanely good player and was not the reason Dallas lost. If they can keep that up I am in favor of keeping him. It's a gamble, nobody said risk wouldn't be involve.

[daoneandonly]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but he's just too unreliable and tempermental to offer that kind of money to. He needs to go to a place where there will eb structure he may actually respect, like LAL with Lebron, or Mia with Riley. That key ingredient is missing here sadly.

I'm willing to eat crow on this in the future but Kyrie's reputation precedes him. The Cleveland stuff and Boston stuff is always over blown. He wanted to be the man when he was 24, who cares. Yeah I know he said he'd resign in Boston and then changed his mind, who cares, as a Patriots fans, I know first hand that Boston has one of the most vile and racist fanbases that ever lived. The only things I have a problem with is the vaccine status and the anti semitic tweet. Trust me I think it's dumb as hell, I literally won an award for my undergraduate thesis which had a conclusion all about how we should require everyone to get vaccinated except for medically necessary in cases. However, Kyrie is not the only unvaccinated player in the NBA but he is the only player who gets suspended or talked about in the media for his vaccine status, that's not a defense for his refusal, but for someone who already has mental health issues being targeted like that when we know and he knows other players are unvaccinated can't be good for him.

Dallas made an effort to keep the media in check when Kyrie came as to not agitate any problems, he is undeniably an insanely good player and was not the reason Dallas lost. If they can keep that up I am in favor of keeping him. It's a gamble, nobody said risk wouldn't be involve.

But its more than that IMO. He randomly disappears during the season for personal activities. We all have stuff we'd rather do than work, but still do the job when its time to. He also used the Jan 6th events as an excuse to take off as well, saying it traumatized him. I mean the only folks that really have the right to claim that are those that worked there and their loved ones.

[daoneandonly]

I won't mention his antics with Nash cause I can't fault anyone for feeling the need to undermine an incompetent, under qualified boss

[daoneandonly]

What do you guys think of Anfernee simons? If hypothetically we could do a 3 team where Miami gets Kyrie, Portland gets Herro, and we get Simons and C. Martin, would you?

[BeiBeau]

Thybulle for the MLE? He shot 38.8% from 3 for Portland and is still an elite perimeter defender.

[Teffer10]

Would Atlanta bite on our #10 if we offered it with THJ/Bullock/Maxi/Future Pick for Collins and Capela?

Luka/Wright/Vet
Kyrie/Hardy/Frank
Green/Holiday/Lawson
Collins/Bertans/Vet
Capela/McGee/Powell

[Teffer10]

Thybulle for the MLE? He shot 38.8% from 3 for Portland and is still an elite perimeter defender.

Substitute Thybulle for Holiday in my trade scenario and I think he'd be a great guy to sign for MLE.

Luka/Wright/Frank
Kyrie/Hardy/
Green/Thybulle/Lawson
Collins/Bertans/Morris?
Capela/McGee/Powell

Pretty good blend of offense and defense.

[BeiBeau]

Would Atlanta bite on our #10 if we offered it with THJ/Bullock/Maxi/Future Pick for Collins and Capela?

Luka/Wright/Vet
Kyrie/Hardy/Frank
Green/Holiday/Lawson
Collins/Bertans/Vet
Capela/McGee/Powell

That’s a major over play. #10 is about Capella’s value. Maxi and Bullock are an overpay, Collins is a near negative asset right now after the weak season he had.

A more balanced trade would be Bertans/THJ/10 for Collins/Capella and it’s kinda growing on me. Atlanta saves a **** ton of money long term and once they stretch wave Bertans they also save it short term. If you’re going to tell me Collins is going to come in and out of 16/8 on 36% from 3 then I’m all for it but if last season is his new normal then 13/6 with middling defense and 30% from 3 for 100 million over 4 years sounds like Bertans 2.0.

I could buy into,

Luka/Hardy
Irving/Hardy/Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/ Bullock
Collins/Kleber
Capella/Powell

Especially if Dallas could move Bullock for an upgraded backup 5.

[BeiBeau]

All of that preservers Hardy who I think is a future 22-24/5/3 once he gets stronger and tightens his handle. Plus the big thing here would be Collins is effectively replace bullock. Collins and Bullock are probably close to even at this point in perimeter defense but Collins is bigger, and better at the rim and on the boards. Plus Bullock is best against smaller guards but that is also who Josh Green guards the best.

[SOUNDCHASER]

We need a SF a PF and a C.

Naz at PF looks like a pick up we need to get going on.

If somehow we can do a deal to add another pick to #10 like a late first or early 2nd we need to use that to draft Zach Edey then he could be our center and with #10 maybe we draft GG Jackson there or we do some homework and calculate how far down we can drop and still get him to snag another pick possibly and use it to draft Zach or maybe get 2 and add to it all.

I think we need to be smart and add at least 2 guys that can play PF and C with size that is adequate for those positions Naz and Zach plus maybe a third veteran at center.

At SF GG could grow and would be nice if he did because he looks athletic enough to play SF and if he pulls a Giannis and continues to grow from 6'9 to 7' so that you end up with a lot more valuable PF then that is fine by me.

I think I have seen it elsewhere that he was now listed at 6'10 so he is still growing and at 18 more growth is possible.

Those three added with very little impact on the salary cap give us a 3, 4 & 5 with as potential future starters at all 3 positions.

BONUS MOVE: Juan Nunez is a 6'4 European PG that may go undrafted if so he looks to be a fit to cover that positions needs as a third stringer worth developing on a 2 way.


Would love to see the moves work out so we could add the guys to create a team like this.
?= should trade if and as possible

Luka Hardy Juan Nunez
Irving Lawson Hardaway?
Green GG JacksonBullock? Holiday
NAZ Kleber Bertans?
Zach Edey McGee Another Vet Center NO MORE POWELL!!!
One spot left open to use for players that other teams cut.

Getting more if we can trade off Hardaway Bullock and Bertans would be great. Hopefully we let Powell get gone.

[Dmavs12]

Would Atlanta bite on our #10 if we offered it with THJ/Bullock/Maxi/Future Pick for Collins and Capela?

Luka/Wright/Vet
Kyrie/Hardy/Frank
Green/Holiday/Lawson
Collins/Bertans/Vet
Capela/McGee/Powell

That’s a major over play. #10 is about Capella’s value. Maxi and Bullock are an overpay, Collins is a near negative asset right now after the weak season he had.

A more balanced trade would be Bertans/THJ/10 for Collins/Capella and it’s kinda growing on me. Atlanta saves a **** ton of money long term and once they stretch wave Bertans they also save it short term. If you’re going to tell me Collins is going to come in and out of 16/8 on 36% from 3 then I’m all for it but if last season is his new normal then 13/6 with middling defense and 30% from 3 for 100 million over 4 years sounds like Bertans 2.0.

I could buy into,

Luka/Hardy
Irving/Hardy/Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/ Bullock
Collins/Kleber
Capella/Powell

Especially if Dallas could move Bullock for an upgraded backup 5.

I like the 1, 2 and 3 of that line up. Any way to not take on Collin’s and maybe use that cap space to get DFS and Poeltl? Maybe get a second round pick and take a project like Zach Edey.

I’m not sure if the money works out, and I’m not sure if it could be done, but i lean more on the side of adding defensive depth to the PF and center spot rather than paying Collin’s.

Guessing you’d have to get rid of bullock to even try to make this line up possible.

Luka/Hardy/Frank
Irving/Hardy/Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/vet min
DFS/Kleber/Vet min
Capella/Poeltl/Edey

[BeiBeau]

Would Atlanta bite on our #10 if we offered it with THJ/Bullock/Maxi/Future Pick for Collins and Capela?

Luka/Wright/Vet
Kyrie/Hardy/Frank
Green/Holiday/Lawson
Collins/Bertans/Vet
Capela/McGee/Powell

That’s a major over play. #10 is about Capella’s value. Maxi and Bullock are an overpay, Collins is a near negative asset right now after the weak season he had.

A more balanced trade would be Bertans/THJ/10 for Collins/Capella and it’s kinda growing on me. Atlanta saves a **** ton of money long term and once they stretch wave Bertans they also save it short term. If you’re going to tell me Collins is going to come in and out of 16/8 on 36% from 3 then I’m all for it but if last season is his new normal then 13/6 with middling defense and 30% from 3 for 100 million over 4 years sounds like Bertans 2.0.

I could buy into,

Luka/Hardy
Irving/Hardy/Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/ Bullock
Collins/Kleber
Capella/Powell

Especially if Dallas could move Bullock for an upgraded backup 5.

I like the 1, 2 and 3 of that line up. Any way to not take on Collin’s and maybe use that cap space to get DFS and Poeltl? Maybe get a second round pick and take a project like Zach Edey.

I’m not sure if the money works out, and I’m not sure if it could be done, but i lean more on the side of adding defensive depth to the PF and center spot rather than paying Collin’s.

Guessing you’d have to get rid of bullock to even try to make this line up possible.

Luka/Hardy/Frank
Irving/Hardy/Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/vet min
DFS/Kleber/Vet min
Capella/Poeltl/Edey

I’m interest in Zach Edey as a UDFA. But please for the love of god don’t mention his name or we will be bombarded with 15 10000 word essays about edey and GG Jackson from soundchaser.

Answer to your question about DFS and Poeltl probably not. Poeltl is going to get 18 million from some team this offseason and Poeltl is for sure not willing to come here and be a backup.

As for DFS he is a player the every team trying to be competitive would pay a premium for and Brooklynn knows that. They’re not letting him go for cheap and Dallas just doesn’t have the assets.

Collins is over payed to be sure but in a new situation with coaching and a the best shot creator in the league on his team he might be the 18-9 guy he’s always been capable of. This trade only works with Dallas taking on Collins because they get to dump Bertans and THJ.

[arkuo]

Nico said in his exit interview that as much as he loves DFS the human being, they (the team) were not as good defensively when he was on the floor with them.

He would raise our defense a bit (because Dallas is at rock bottom right now and any slight upgrade is an upgrade) but not raise it enough to a point where you want it to move the needle. So that being said and coming from management itself, I dont think they'd make a move for DFS at all. Time to try other 3&D players.