Trade Discussion 22/23

41Dirk41 · Post #7741 » by **41Dirk41** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:27 pm

I like PG13 a lot but he is a 32yo always injuried... 48-54-31-56 games played in the last 4 years. Ouch.

Post #7742 » by **Mavrelous** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:28 pm

Spotrac is your most reluable source
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-clippers/cap/2023/
He's non guaranteed.
Apron is 6-7 mils over the LT line, which should be near 170.

Archx · Post #7743 » by **Archx** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 9:33 pm

I wanted Rui when he was up for grabs for cheap. He would have been a good talented wing for this team which is badly needed.

ozwizard8 · Post #7744 » by **ozwizard8** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:08 pm

arkuo wrote:Kyrie needs to be there because Luka defers to him. Or if you plan to move Kyrie, you need to get a vet back that can kick Luka's ass if needed. Because Luka will simply just go back to dribbling for 19 seconds and shoot a fadeaway stepback 35 footer while 4 other guys watch and wait for kick out passes. Mavs have done that for 4 years now. You guys want to go back to that again? And have the Luka fans complain why his usage rate is so high when he dribbles 19 seconds out of the 24 second shot clock.

How can you deny all the reality that is in front of your eyes?

1. Kyrie is not someone to 'kick Luka's ass'. There is no instance that Kyrie pushing Luka worked for Mavs or Luka. Since Kyrie arrived, Luka became visibly depressed. Kyrie never helped him to play better.

2. Luka was getting selected to All-NBA First team since his sophomore year which is a historic success. All this great success happened without Kyrie. All happened without a veteran 'kicking his ass'.

Luka is great at half-court offense. If you surround him with terrible players that cannot run the offensive rotations, then he will be forced to dribble for 19 seconds. F'in Wood not setting a proper screen is an issue.

Brunson was a great Robin to Luka. After losing him free similar to losing Nash, Mavs are done.

Maverick41 · Post #7745 » by **Maverick41** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:38 pm

Archx wrote:I wanted Rui when he was up for grabs for cheap. He would have been a good talented wing for this team which is badly needed.

Yup. I was also pushing for him quite a bit here. The fact that the guy was gifted to the Lakers for SRPs is frustrating.

ozwizard8 · Post #7746 » by **ozwizard8** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:42 pm

Luka said in his interview that he likes Kyrie there because it lessens his job. He can make plays from the post when Kyrie is there. Your star player likes it, and you guys say no? Cuban says he's willing to pay Kyrie. The owner who signs the check is okay with oaying $200M, and you say no as well? Well maybe put a bid and buy the team from Cuban then. You guys seem to know all the answers over the guy who's willing to put down half a billion dollars on Luka and Kyrie combined. LOL

Look guys, the grass always seems greener on the other side. We get that you want all the premium assets in the world and all. There are 30 teams and only 1 gets the number 1 pick. Doesnt mean 29 other teams failed. OKC has like 15 picks and no rings. But it looks nice from the outside.

This one is great to show how poor Kyrie-Cuban supporters' arguments are.

PR statements: Luka will never say anything bad about a teammate. If they ask him Frank, he will say he makes his job easy on defense. If they ask him Wood, he will say he stretches the offense, he is a good scorer etc. Same **** with Kyrie. Luka cannot **** on Kyrie while Kyrie is about to get $200m deal. Imagine Luka going all out and saying how Kyrie tanked the team from 6th seed to 11th. It'd be final nail on Kyrie's coffin. No team would give him $200m after that, considering Kyrie's track record. If an NBA player makes another player to lose $50-100 million then other players would hate him as well.

Players also may not know well about team building. Half of Luka's career was in Europe, Real Madrid. In Europe there is no salary cap so as long as the president is willing to pay, you're good. Luka is not the GM. If he was, he would request to be traded away.

Cuban wants to pay: This is really not an argument. Cuban did not want to pay for Nash and later he said it was his biggest mistake. Cuban not wanting to pay Brunson was catastrophic. We are not Dallas Cubans fans. We do not need to align our thinking with the owner's delusional wishes.

Grass is always greener on the other side: Mavs had a green grass. WCF appearance. Luka being happy with core teammates of Brunson-DFS-Dinwiddie. When Kyrie joined to Mavs, the playoff seeding become a tanking one. Grass becomes mud with Kyrie. You are trying to put your pink sunglasses on and force us to wear that as well.

Only 1 team winning the title and lottery: Another BS argument. OKC Thunder did not win a title in the 2010s. This doesn't discount the fact that they had a better decade than Sacramento Kings. And Kings finally doing better with right moves they did. Looking at their roster, neither Sabonis nor Fox was #1 pick. None of Giannis-Embiid-Jokic was a #1 pick.
Top picks are giving better odds. More draft picks give you better odds to find next superstar and also key rotation players. OKC Thunder is already finishing season with better record than Mavs, indicating a much brighter feature for them. Unless they got bad injury luck or management suddenly gets cheap, they'll have 10 playoff seasons to come.

Mavs team has been run poorly. Cuban's decisions are questionable and should be questioned.

ozwizard8 · Post #7747 » by **ozwizard8** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:50 pm

Maverick41 wrote:
Archx wrote:I wanted Rui when he was up for grabs for cheap. He would have been a good talented wing for this team which is badly needed.

Yup. I was also pushing for him quite a bit here. The fact that the guy was gifted to the Lakers for SRPs is frustrating.

Imagine if LeGM was successful in bringing Kyrie instead of Vanderbilt, Rui, Beasley.

I bet Kyrie with Lakers would not make playoffs. Even if they did, he'd suck on defense, and having no wing players, PFs other than Lebron would diminish their defense.

With Kyrie, I cant envision Reaves finding the opportunity each night to grow.

BeiBeau · Post #7748 » by **BeiBeau** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:58 pm

This is kinda an amalgamation of some of the stuff I’ve been talking about in the T&T board.

If the Nets trade for Towns
1. Dallas sends Bullock/10/27 1st for Claxton/Royce O’Neal/Future 2nd
2. Sign Matisse Thybulle to the MLE
3. Sign Keita Bates Diop with the Bi-Annual Exception
4. Sign Powell, Holiday, Pat Bev to the vet min
5. Obviously Resign Kyrie(y’all arguing about it is kinda funny)

Luka/ Hardy/ Pat Bev
Kyrie/ THJ/ Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/ Holiday
O’Neal/ Kleber/ Keita Bates Diop
Claxton/ Powell

Then mid season see if anything materializes for THJ, as his contract gets shorter and cheaper he will continue to be easier to move.

Maverick41 · Post #7749 » by **Maverick41** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:07 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:Imagine if LeGM was successful in bringing Kyrie instead of Vanderbilt, Rui, Beasley.

I bet Kyrie with Lakers would not make playoffs. Even if they did, he'd suck on defense, and having no wing players, PFs other than Lebron would diminish their defense.

With Kyrie, I cant envision Reaves finding the opportunity each night to grow.

I don't think they would either. For me though, that's not an indictment on Kyrie but more-so a prop for how important team building, fit and defense is. The players Lakers got at the TDL are tremendous fits and a testament to how to fill in roster holes. Nico could stand to learn this since the guy tends to do trades to fill one hole, then open up one or 2 holes in the process. Nico could also learn how to find some guys for the vet min that are under the radar and that could be contributors. Both Schroeder (who many of us wanted here) and Troy Brown Jr. would play major minutes here and they were had for the minimum while we blew our entire load on McGee instead.

Maverick41 · Post #7750 » by **Maverick41** » Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:20 pm

BeiBeau wrote:3. Sign Keita Bates Diop with the Bi-Annual Exception

I like Keita Bates Diop a lot. If he can somehow be had for the BAE, that would be a great but I can see him making more than that after a pretty good year. Good shoutout to a lesser known name that is a very good fit here though.

Rand10 · Post #7751 » by **Rand10** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:32 am

BeiBeau wrote:This is kinda an amalgamation of some of the stuff I’ve been talking about in the T&T board.

If the Nets trade for Towns
1. Dallas sends Bullock/10/27 1st for Claxton/Royce O’Neal/Future 2nd
2. Sign Matisse Thybulle to the MLE
3. Sign Keita Bates Diop with the Bi-Annual Exception
4. Sign Powell, Holiday, Pat Bev to the vet min
5. Obviously Resign Kyrie(y’all arguing about it is kinda funny)

Luka/ Hardy/ Pat Bev
Kyrie/ THJ/ Holiday
Green/ Thybulle/ Holiday
O’Neal/ Kleber/ Keita Bates Diop
Claxton/ Powell

Then mid season see if anything materializes for THJ, as his contract gets shorter and cheaper he will continue to be easier to move.

Some interesting ideas. You'd have to add McGee to the first trade to match salaries. Or just sub Bertans for Bullock. O'Neale isn't the ideal PF, but he's not a bad fallback option if a higher level starter isn't available. Love the idea of Claxton (outside of his free throw shooting).

I'd expect Portland to match any reasonable offer on Thybulle. KBD is a decent target if Bullock is moved. I think he gets more than the BAE though. Using the BAE or anything over the taxpayer midlevel would hard cap the Mavs, and that might be hard to manage in your exact scenario.

Maverick41 · Post #7752 » by **Maverick41** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:17 am

BeiBeau wrote:If the Nets trade for Towns
1. Dallas sends Bullock/10/27 1st for Claxton/Royce O’Neal/Future 2nd

Imo this is a lot for Claxton, particularly since the guy is gonna demand an extension shortly after and possibly might not be in our closing lineups due to some of his offensive limitations. Maybe it can be considered if its Bertans instead of Bullock. I would also prefer DFS to Royce. Similar players but I'd rather go for the guy that has proven chemistry here and locked in longer. With the new CBA, we're gonna need some solid role players that are locked into longer contracts.

BeiBeau · Post #7753 » by **BeiBeau** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:24 am

Maverick41 wrote:
BeiBeau wrote:If the Nets trade for Towns
1. Dallas sends Bullock/10/27 1st for Claxton/Royce O’Neal/Future 2nd

Imo this is a lot for Claxton, particularly since the guy is gonna demand an extension shortly after and possibly might not be in our closing lineups due to some of his offensive limitations. Maybe it can be considered if its Bertans instead of Bullock. I would also prefer DFS to Royce. Similar players but I'd rather go for the guy that has proven chemistry here and locked in longer. With the new CBA, we're gonna need some solid role players that are locked into longer contracts.

This would probably be agreed to before and then executed on draft night so can’t trade for DFS until until July 1st which is after. Claxton is a risk but I think a relatively small one for an extremely high reward. If he really is a DPOY candidate that is the dream we won’t find that else where. I agree about him closing, it’s imperative we keep Maxi for that.

Maverick41 · Post #7754 » by **Maverick41** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:28 am

BeiBeau wrote:This would probably be agreed to before and then executed on draft night so can’t trade for DFS until until July 1st which is after

I believe DAL and BRK can agree on the trade and just not complete the paperwork until July 1st.

Maverick41 · Post #7755 » by **Maverick41** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:46 am

One guy I would pay attention to is Jarrett Allen. If Cleveland flames out to NY, do they consider moving Mobley to C and getting a stretch 4 to allow for more driving lanes for their guards? Someone like........potential #10 pick Taylor Hendricks? Garland's extension is kicking, Mitchell's supermax in a few years and eventually Mobley as well. Doubtful CLE is going to be able to afford all 4 of these guys on such large contracts. Something like the following:

DAL Receives: J. Allen
CLE Receives: Maxi + Bullock + #10 pick

DAL gets their starting C for years to come. Low usage guy that can finish and defend at a very high level. Lineup as follows:

Luka/Hardy
Kyrie/THJ
Green/BAE
MLE/Vet Min
J. Allen/Powell/McGee

CLE gets 2 solid rotation players that fit really well with their core. They then draft someone like Hendricks with the 10th pick. Their lineup then becomes far more balanced:

Garland/Rubio
Mitchell/Okoro/Levert?
Bullock/Osman
Hendricks/Wade
Mobley/Kleber/R. Lopez

That kind of lineup looks far more fitting for the modern NBA then their current lineup.

Just an idea outside of the normal names that are tossed around here. I can see Allen netting potentially more from elsewhere TBH.

41Dirk41 · Post #7756 » by **41Dirk41** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:46 am

Maverick41 wrote:
Archx wrote:I wanted Rui when he was up for grabs for cheap. He would have been a good talented wing for this team which is badly needed.

Yup. I was also pushing for him quite a bit here. The fact that the guy was gifted to the Lakers for SRPs is frustrating.

Yes but if Cuban always trades 2RPs for youtuber like jjredick or for dump players we will never have some of those picks for bargains like Vanderbilt or Rui.

Lakers FO was smart, Cuban not.Again.

arkuo · Post #7757 » by **arkuo** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:48 am

Maverick41 wrote:One guy I would pay attention to is Jarrett Allen. If Cleveland flames out to NY, do they consider moving Mobley to C and getting a stretch 4 to allow for more driving lanes for their guards? Someone like........potential #10 pick Taylor Hendricks? Garland's extension is kicking, Mitchell's supermax in a few years and eventually Mobley as well. Doubtful CLE is going to be able to afford all 4 of these guys on such large contracts. Something like the following:

DAL Receives: J. Allen
CLE Receives: Maxi + Bullock + #10 pick

DAL gets their starting C for years to come. Low usage guy that can finish and defend at a very high level. Lineup as follows:

Luka/Hardy
Kyrie/THJ
Green/BAE
MLE/Vet Min
J. Allen/Powell/McGee

CLE gets 2 solid rotation players that fit really well with their core. They then draft someone like Hendricks with the 10th pick. Their lineup then becomes far more balanced:

Garland/Rubio
Mitchell/Okoro/Levert?
Bullock/Osman
Hendricks/Wade
Mobley/Kleber/R. Lopez

That kind of lineup looks far more fitting for the modern NBA then their current lineup.

Just an idea outside of the normal names that are tossed around here. I can see Allen netting potentially more from elsewhere TBH.

Man, Jarret Allen would be a perfect fit. Defensive center.

dirkules_41 · Post #7758 » by **dirkules_41** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:41 pm

41Dirk41 wrote:
Maverick41 wrote:
Archx wrote:I wanted Rui when he was up for grabs for cheap. He would have been a good talented wing for this team which is badly needed.

Yup. I was also pushing for him quite a bit here. The fact that the guy was gifted to the Lakers for SRPs is frustrating.

Yes but if Cuban always trades 2RPs for youtuber like jjredick or for dump players we will never have some of those picks for bargains like Vanderbilt or Rui.

Lakers FO was smart, Cuban not.Again.

Lakers went and tried to cover as many holes on their roster as possible. Meanwhile the Mavs, whilst I still love the Kyrie trade, went and just completely ignored the 2 biggest issues we've had all season... it's really quite puzzling.

BeiBeau · Post #7759 » by **BeiBeau** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:09 pm

dirkules_41 wrote:
41Dirk41 wrote:
Maverick41 wrote:Yup. I was also pushing for him quite a bit here. The fact that the guy was gifted to the Lakers for SRPs is frustrating.

Yes but if Cuban always trades 2RPs for youtuber like jjredick or for dump players we will never have some of those picks for bargains like Vanderbilt or Rui.

Lakers FO was smart, Cuban not.Again.

Lakers went and tried to cover as many holes on their roster as possible. Meanwhile the Mavs, whilst I still love the Kyrie trade, went and just completely ignored the 2 biggest issues we've had all season... it's really quite puzzling.

I think Dallas did fill a hole with Kyrie. Given the limited assets they had they needed to find a 2nd All Star for Luka and someone to run the show when he rests and getting Kyrie was way better then we ever thought they were going to do in that department. I think the mistake was to not make a 2nd trade at the deadline for fill the holes of defender and rim protector/rebounder.

daoneandonly · Post #7760 » by **daoneandonly** » Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:19 pm

Maverick41 wrote:One guy I would pay attention to is Jarrett Allen. If Cleveland flames out to NY, do they consider moving Mobley to C and getting a stretch 4 to allow for more driving lanes for their guards? Someone like........potential #10 pick Taylor Hendricks? Garland's extension is kicking, Mitchell's supermax in a few years and eventually Mobley as well. Doubtful CLE is going to be able to afford all 4 of these guys on such large contracts. Something like the following:

DAL Receives: J. Allen
CLE Receives: Maxi + Bullock + #10 pick

DAL gets their starting C for years to come. Low usage guy that can finish and defend at a very high level. Lineup as follows:

Luka/Hardy
Kyrie/THJ
Green/BAE
MLE/Vet Min
J. Allen/Powell/McGee

CLE gets 2 solid rotation players that fit really well with their core. They then draft someone like Hendricks with the 10th pick. Their lineup then becomes far more balanced:

Garland/Rubio
Mitchell/Okoro/Levert?
Bullock/Osman
Hendricks/Wade
Mobley/Kleber/R. Lopez

That kind of lineup looks far more fitting for the modern NBA then their current lineup.

Just an idea outside of the normal names that are tossed around here. I can see Allen netting potentially more from elsewhere TBH.

Would be perfect target, though I don't see Cle doing it. I dont think they'll lose to NYK and Jafro is a stud. Though at some point, they do have to factor in contracts and if Mobley is a PF or C. And Mobley is the future and one to keep if it comes to one having to go.