Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[shrink]

Gobert trade value rising, at least on the Trade Board!

Or if Minnesota is having buyers remorse, I’d offer Poku+Kenrich+11th+1-2 future firsts from other teams for Rudy. No one out bidding that right? No bad salary back..It probably works best a three team deal with Minnesota landing Bridges or Pascal or someone. But that can be ran with else where. Rudy expires when Jalen and Chet get max contracts, so no tax issues really. And OKC dominates as the kids develop on their rookie contracts. Some really big line ups with Rudy/Chet. Some small with Chet/Giddey. Just a really strong team that still has 6-7 extra firsts coming in..

I‘m not in the “trade Rudy at all costs” camp, but it wouldn’t be the first time in NBA history where a player dominated a team in a critical game, and it caused that team to try to trade for him.

[TimberKat]

Gobert trade value rising, at least on the Trade Board!

Or if Minnesota is having buyers remorse, I’d offer Poku+Kenrich+11th+1-2 future firsts from other teams for Rudy. No one out bidding that right? No bad salary back..It probably works best a three team deal with Minnesota landing Bridges or Pascal or someone. But that can be ran with else where. Rudy expires when Jalen and Chet get max contracts, so no tax issues really. And OKC dominates as the kids develop on their rookie contracts. Some really big line ups with Rudy/Chet. Some small with Chet/Giddey. Just a really strong team that still has 6-7 extra firsts coming in..

I‘m not in the “trade Rudy at all costs” camp, but it wouldn’t be the first time in NBA history where a player dominated a team in a critical game, and it caused that team to try to trade for him.

Who is Poku and Kenrich? The guy that is a worse FT shooter than Gobert? I am assuming this is a joke but any trade conversation would start with Holmgren and I don't mean the Packers coach.

[shrink]

Gobert trade value rising, at least on the Trade Board!

Or if Minnesota is having buyers remorse, I’d offer Poku+Kenrich+11th+1-2 future firsts from other teams for Rudy. No one out bidding that right? No bad salary back..It probably works best a three team deal with Minnesota landing Bridges or Pascal or someone. But that can be ran with else where. Rudy expires when Jalen and Chet get max contracts, so no tax issues really. And OKC dominates as the kids develop on their rookie contracts. Some really big line ups with Rudy/Chet. Some small with Chet/Giddey. Just a really strong team that still has 6-7 extra firsts coming in..

I‘m not in the “trade Rudy at all costs” camp, but it wouldn’t be the first time in NBA history where a player dominated a team in a critical game, and it caused that team to try to trade for him.

Who is Poku and Kenrich? The guy that is a worse FT shooter than Gobert? I am assuming this is a joke but any trade conversation would start with Holmgren and I don't mean the Packers coach.

Those guys would be sent to TOR or BRK to improve a rebuild, and we’d try to win now with Siakim or Bridges.

[TimberKat]

Gobert trade value rising, at least on the Trade Board!


I‘m not in the “trade Rudy at all costs” camp, but it wouldn’t be the first time in NBA history where a player dominated a team in a critical game, and it caused that team to try to trade for him.

Who is Poku and Kenrich? The guy that is a worse FT shooter than Gobert? I am assuming this is a joke but any trade conversation would start with Holmgren and I don't mean the Packers coach.

Those guys would be sent to TOR or BRK to improve a rebuild, and we’d try to win now with Siakim or Bridges.

I don't think that is enough to get Siakim and Bridges. Let's assume it is Gobert for those two, I am intrigued. We would go back to the playing style like last year. Is that enough to get pass DEN, PHX, MIL, PHI, BOS? I really like how we played vs OKC. It's too bad that we don't have enough sample size this year due to injuries. Maybe a very good consideration if things don't work next season.

I would focus on packaging Naz, Prince, JMcl, Nowell, etc. for a reliable bench player and PG. I see Naz as sell high now and JMcD if we get an offer that we can't refuse (ex: Bridges or a horse). With the full deck, I think this Wolves team can play against any team. This is the only Wolves team I ever feel that. I didn't think the KG team was going to pass the Lakers. A working Towns/Gobert combo is the edge for that confidence. Similar to Cavs, Mitchell has been great this year but they loss some edge without Markie to create the 3 7-footer lineup.

[younggunsmn]

Gobert trade value rising, at least on the Trade Board!


I‘m not in the “trade Rudy at all costs” camp, but it wouldn’t be the first time in NBA history where a player dominated a team in a critical game, and it caused that team to try to trade for him.

Who is Poku and Kenrich? The guy that is a worse FT shooter than Gobert? I am assuming this is a joke but any trade conversation would start with Holmgren and I don't mean the Packers coach.

Those guys would be sent to TOR or BRK to improve a rebuild, and we’d try to win now with Siakim or Bridges.

Are you talking about Miles Bridges? Because Mikal Bridges is way out of our Price Range.

But if we could get 3 first round picks including 12 this year for Gobert and basically not take any salary back?
That would be a great escape plan.
He's only going to get less and less tradeable moving forward.


It's going to be very, very hard to keep him and KAT both here beyond next year, extend Ant and Jaden, and field a competitive team around them with ~165 million or more committed to 4 players in '24-25 and '25-26, which is already right around the projected luxury tax level for those years.

[TimberKat]

Who is Poku and Kenrich? The guy that is a worse FT shooter than Gobert? I am assuming this is a joke but any trade conversation would start with Holmgren and I don't mean the Packers coach.

Those guys would be sent to TOR or BRK to improve a rebuild, and we’d try to win now with Siakim or Bridges.

Are you talking about Miles Bridges? Because Mikal Bridges is way out of our Price Range.

But if we could get 3 first round picks including 12 this year for Gobert and basically not take any salary back?
That would be a great escape plan.
He's only going to get less and less tradeable moving forward.


It's going to be very, very hard to keep him and KAT both here beyond next year, extend Ant and Jaden, and field a competitive team around them with ~165 million or more committed to 4 players in '24-25 and '25-26, which is already right around the projected luxury tax level for those years.

Isn't 25-26 the only year we have the salary issue? I am not sure how the 24-25 qualifying offer year works. We don't have a cheap owner anymore, so there is hope that we are OK with going over the cap. Ant's contract year is also why I am open to trade Jaden for upgrade. We shouldn't trade for picks, it's win now and rebuild in 2028.

If we paid Bulter the max, we would have been in the playoffs the last 4 years. Just upgrade Teague and we may had a couple good runs.

[Colbinii]

I gotta say--I am extremely impressed by KAT and what he has done recently. I am fine with writing off his 4th quarter against LAL to stamina [still not 100%] but his defense has been night and day.

[younggunsmn]

Those guys would be sent to TOR or BRK to improve a rebuild, and we’d try to win now with Siakim or Bridges.

Are you talking about Miles Bridges? Because Mikal Bridges is way out of our Price Range.

But if we could get 3 first round picks including 12 this year for Gobert and basically not take any salary back?
That would be a great escape plan.
He's only going to get less and less tradeable moving forward.


It's going to be very, very hard to keep him and KAT both here beyond next year, extend Ant and Jaden, and field a competitive team around them with ~165 million or more committed to 4 players in '24-25 and '25-26, which is already right around the projected luxury tax level for those years.

Isn't 25-26 the only year we have the salary issue? I am not sure how the 24-25 qualifying offer year works. We don't have a cheap owner anymore, so there is hope that we are OK with going over the cap. Ant's contract year is also why I am open to trade Jaden for upgrade. We shouldn't trade for picks, it's win now and rebuild in 2028.

If we paid Bulter the max, we would have been in the playoffs the last 4 years. Just upgrade Teague and we may had a couple good runs.

'24-25 will be the first year of Ant and Jaden's extensions (hopefully).
The qualifying offer is just a one year contract you are required to offer to obtain restricted free agent rights for a player at the end of their rookie contract (4 year rookie or 3 year or less undrafted or 2nd round draft pick.
If they sign that qualifying offer (rather than seeking a long term contract as a restricted free agent), they obtain unrestricted free agent rights at the end of that year.
Hence why most team look to extend their successful draft picks before their rookie contract is up.

So Ant will be making 30% of the cap (or 35% if he meets supermax qualifications, which is a real possibility) in '24-25.
Probably 40 million or more.
I expect Jaden to make at least 25 mil.

There is no way I would trade Jaden, 52/40 shooting, all-NBA defense, immense untapped offensive potential and only 22 years old.
Would be one of the dumbest things this franchise has ever done.

And its not a matter of the owners spending money, It's a matter of staying under the extremely crippling 2nd luxury tax threshold which pretty much keeps you from doing anything other than making vet minimum signings.
You can't even use the buyout market or trade future picks and have to take back less salary in any trade.

[minimus]

1) trade Towns, Knight, McLaughlin for Franz Wagner, Suggs, Isaac and three top-10 protected picks.

2) re-route Isaac and two top-10 protected MIN picks for Devin Vassell and McDermott (waive)

3) resign Reid 60mil/4yrs, Garza 8mil/4yrs, NAW 18mil/3yrs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Wagner/Anderson/Minott
MCD/TP/NAW
Edwards/Vassell/Moore
Conley/Suggs/NAW

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero duo, on paper they look very good five-out fondatoin
Why for SAS: re-invest assets, maybe trade nonguaranteed Isaac contract later

Why for MIN: rebuild roster with wing depth. At first sight it is a bit too crowdy at wings: Wagner-Anderson-Minott-MCD-TP-Vassell-Moore-NAW. But Anderson and TP only have one full year left in contract. Let them help young players and after next year we will have Wagner-Minott-MCD-Vassell-Moore-NAW rotation, Same with Conley and Suggs/NAW.

[Note30]

1) trade Towns, Knight, McLaughlin for Franz Wagner, Suggs, Isaac and three top-10 protected picks.

2) re-route Isaac and two top-10 protected MIN picks for Devin Vassell and McDermott (waive)

3) resign Reid 60mil/4yrs, Garza 8mil/4yrs, NAW 18mil/3yrs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Wagner/Anderson/Minott
MCD/TP/NAW
Edwards/Vassell/Moore
Conley/Suggs/NAW

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero duo, on paper they look very good five-out fondatoin
Why for SAS: re-invest assets, maybe trade nonguaranteed Isaac contract later

Why for MIN: rebuild roster with wing depth. At first sight it is a bit too crowdy at wings: Wagner-Anderson-Minott-MCD-TP-Vassell-Moore-NAW. But Anderson and TP only have one full year left in contract. Let them help young players and after next year we will have Wagner-Minott-MCD-Vassell-Moore-NAW rotation, Same with Conley and Suggs/NAW.

Wagner can't play the 4 well. Also that second trade is a massive overpay.

Unless you're planning to have Wagner off the bench or McD off the bench no.

[Guest84]

Looking over the roster, I think Ant needs a running mate similar to D Fox. We need someone who plays fearless to pull that out of Ant more often. Fox and Monk are applying a lot of pressure on the warriors and we need that from Ant and another player. Who that is, idk.

Also, a coach like Mike Brown would've been great for the wolves. Defensive minded, works well with young guys and a lot of experience.

[minimus]

1) trade Towns, Knight, McLaughlin for Franz Wagner, Suggs, Isaac and three top-10 protected picks.

2) re-route Isaac and two top-10 protected MIN picks for Devin Vassell and McDermott (waive)

3) resign Reid 60mil/4yrs, Garza 8mil/4yrs, NAW 18mil/3yrs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Wagner/Anderson/Minott
MCD/TP/NAW
Edwards/Vassell/Moore
Conley/Suggs/NAW

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero duo, on paper they look very good five-out fondatoin
Why for SAS: re-invest assets, maybe trade nonguaranteed Isaac contract later

Why for MIN: rebuild roster with wing depth. At first sight it is a bit too crowdy at wings: Wagner-Anderson-Minott-MCD-TP-Vassell-Moore-NAW. But Anderson and TP only have one full year left in contract. Let them help young players and after next year we will have Wagner-Minott-MCD-Vassell-Moore-NAW rotation, Same with Conley and Suggs/NAW.

Wagner can't play the 4 well. Also that second trade is a massive overpay.

Unless you're planning to have Wagner off the bench or McD off the bench no.

IMO Wagner at PF will be better fit next to Gobert than Towns. The hope here is to develop and play Wagner in role similar to Ingles/Bogdanovic in UTA.

With regard to Vassell I think he is already one of the best mid range shooters in NBA, he has all tools to be next Mikal Bridges. I believe that we will be much better if we can find a shooter who can contribute in defense.

[Note30]

1) trade Towns, Knight, McLaughlin for Franz Wagner, Suggs, Isaac and three top-10 protected picks.

2) re-route Isaac and two top-10 protected MIN picks for Devin Vassell and McDermott (waive)

3) resign Reid 60mil/4yrs, Garza 8mil/4yrs, NAW 18mil/3yrs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Wagner/Anderson/Minott
MCD/TP/NAW
Edwards/Vassell/Moore
Conley/Suggs/NAW

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero duo, on paper they look very good five-out fondatoin
Why for SAS: re-invest assets, maybe trade nonguaranteed Isaac contract later

Why for MIN: rebuild roster with wing depth. At first sight it is a bit too crowdy at wings: Wagner-Anderson-Minott-MCD-TP-Vassell-Moore-NAW. But Anderson and TP only have one full year left in contract. Let them help young players and after next year we will have Wagner-Minott-MCD-Vassell-Moore-NAW rotation, Same with Conley and Suggs/NAW.

Wagner can't play the 4 well. Also that second trade is a massive overpay.

Unless you're planning to have Wagner off the bench or McD off the bench no.

IMO Wagner at PF will be better fit next to Gobert than Towns. The hope here is to develop and play Wagner in role similar to Ingles/Bogdanovic in UTA.

With regard to Vassell I think he is already one of the best mid range shooters in NBA, he has all tools to be next Mikal Bridges. I believe that we will be much better if we can find a shooter who can contribute in defense.

Just because he'll be a better fit doesn't mean we should trade for him. Who cares about his fit next to Rudy? Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

If you're trading KAT because of poor fit next to Ant then you should for sure be trading Gobert because he's a terrible fit next to Ant.

Two picks for Vessell... Are you trying to rebuild the Utah Jazz? They blew it up for a reason.

[shrink]

Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

I’m not sure Ant won’t work with Rudy.

I don’t blame Ant for taking a long time to figure out how to play with Gobert. Edwards entered the NBA far behind in his BB education, as a late-comer to the game, and one year in a pretty bad college team. It’s a credit to Ant that he overcame this, let alone was the first pick in the draft. He started really learning NBA basketball here next to Towns, a center who alters defenses more than virtually any other (maybe Jokic?). Then MIN brings in KAT’s polar opposite, a big that stays in the lane (like most centers do), and needs a high pass underneath, rather than a pop out to Towns on the three point line. D’Angelo Russell was no help - he either didn’t want to, or couldn’t figure out how to play with Gobert himself.

But I have optimism after seeing Mike Conley, who uses Gobert to his advantage. I watch Mike get a defender on his hip and drive inside, making Rudy’s defender either stop the ball or stop the lob. I see him lately take advantage of Gobert’s massive picks too, and score close to the basket. And if I see it, I am sure Ant sees it too. And with Ant’s speed and strength, once he learns it, he should be able to do everything Mike can do, and do it all better.

Give Ant some time. A ton was put on this young man’s plate this year, with extra responsibilities in almost all aspects of the game. Let’s see what happens when the team gets an off-season together.

[Note30]

Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

I’m not sure Ant won’t work with Rudy.

I don’t blame Ant for taking a long time to figure out how to play with Gobert. Edwards entered the NBA far behind in his BB education, as a late-comer to the game, and one year in a pretty bad college team. It’s a credit to Ant that he overcame this, let alone was the first pick in the draft. He started really learning NBA basketball here next to Towns, a center who alters defenses more than virtually any other (maybe Jokic?). Then MIN brings in KAT’s polar opposite, a big that stays in the lane (like most centers do), and needs a high pass underneath, rather than a pop out to Towns on the three point line. D’Angelo Russell was no help - he either didn’t want to, or couldn’t figure out how to play with Gobert himself.

But I have optimism after seeing Mike Conley, who uses Gobert to his advantage. I watch Mike get a defender on his hip and drive inside, making Rudy’s defender either stop the ball or stop the lob. I see him lately take advantage of Gobert’s massive picks too, and score close to the basket. And if I see it, I am sure Ant sees it too. And with Ant’s speed and strength, once he learns it, he should be able to do everything Mike can do, and do it all better.

Give Ant some time. A ton was put on this young man’s plate this year, with extra responsibilities in almost all aspects of the game. Let’s see what happens when the team gets an off-season together.

It's not Ants fault Gobert is limited. If you're taking the logic that KAT is limited, atleast he fits better with Ant than Gobert. Not being able to work with a really limited player is the fault of the limited player not the one who has to work with them.

If you need a really specific player to complement the other, he better be the one you're building around.

I don't see it working out with Ant and Gobert. Get him a center that can catch the damn ball.

[shrink]

I don't see it working out with Ant and Gobert. Get him a center that can catch the damn ball.

We’ll see. But I was listening to an old interview from Conley yesterday, and he said something that you might find as funny as me. We know he said it took him a year to get used to setting up Gobert, and now they work well together offensively. However, he went into a little more detail. It said something like, “You know, I’d played a lot of PG and I played a lot of pick-and-roll with centers (Gasol, etc). So I didn’t think it would be a big transition to switch to Gobert, just because he’s bigger. But I’d always passed that bounce pass, and when I’d do it with Gobert, the angle would come right at his knee. It took a while to stop doing that, and get the timing right on the roll. Then he said something about Rudy setting better picks, and he had to learn to adjust his speed when he’d roll down hill, and also learn to pass high.”

I thought it was pretty funny, but when I think about it - he’s right, that’s what I see. Mike has it down to an art form, DLo refused to change from a bounce pass, even though Rudy’s height and clumsy hands would bobble those. Hopefully Ant can learn to be like Mike.

[younggunsmn]

Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

I’m not sure Ant won’t work with Rudy.

I don’t blame Ant for taking a long time to figure out how to play with Gobert. Edwards entered the NBA far behind in his BB education, as a late-comer to the game, and one year in a pretty bad college team. It’s a credit to Ant that he overcame this, let alone was the first pick in the draft. He started really learning NBA basketball here next to Towns, a center who alters defenses more than virtually any other (maybe Jokic?). Then MIN brings in KAT’s polar opposite, a big that stays in the lane (like most centers do), and needs a high pass underneath, rather than a pop out to Towns on the three point line. D’Angelo Russell was no help - he either didn’t want to, or couldn’t figure out how to play with Gobert himself.

But I have optimism after seeing Mike Conley, who uses Gobert to his advantage. I watch Mike get a defender on his hip and drive inside, making Rudy’s defender either stop the ball or stop the lob. I see him lately take advantage of Gobert’s massive picks too, and score close to the basket. And if I see it, I am sure Ant sees it too. And with Ant’s speed and strength, once he learns it, he should be able to do everything Mike can do, and do it all better.

Give Ant some time. A ton was put on this young man’s plate this year, with extra responsibilities in almost all aspects of the game. Let’s see what happens when the team gets an off-season together.

Ant has really gelled with Naz. Rudy is just very very limited and we need to accept that.
Conley is able to utilize Rudy because he specializes in that 8 foot floater, which is what's going to be available a lot of the time unless the D messes up. That's just not Ant's game. His game is getting to the rim and Rudy makes that harder and not easier.

I would like to see Ant run that open corner set that Conley and Rudy run because it gets Ant going left to right at the rim.
He should be able to draw a lot of fouls attacking the weak side defender with his strength and athleticism.
Having Ant and KAT run that set could make for interesting wrinkles if KAT pops to the corner, but there is nothing for Rudy to do if those 2 are running it.

[Klomp]

When thinking about PGs...what do you think about taking a chance on Lonzo Ball? It's risky, but if it paid off I think it could work really well. Finch does have experience with Ball from 2019-20 in New Orleans.

[BlacJacMac]

When thinking about PGs...what do you think about taking a chance on Lonzo Ball? It's risky, but if it paid off I think it could work really well. Finch does have experience with Ball from 2019-20 in New Orleans.

He's about as perfect of a fit as you could find for this team. Great size, tough defender and rebounder, excellent passer (especially in transition) and a knockdown 3pt shooter. About the only thing he doesn't do is attack the rim or draw fouls.

But who knows if he'll ever play again? Reports are not at all encouraging.

[Domejandro]

When thinking about PGs...what do you think about taking a chance on Lonzo Ball? It's risky, but if it paid off I think it could work really well. Finch does have experience with Ball from 2019-20 in New Orleans.

Definitely not worth the risk without added incentive. The dude is trying to be the first player to come back from a cartilage transplant. Even if he does return at any level near his former self, next year is going to be a recovery year.