Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[TimberKat]

When thinking about PGs...what do you think about taking a chance on Lonzo Ball? It's risky, but if it paid off I think it could work really well. Finch does have experience with Ball from 2019-20 in New Orleans.

Definitely not worth the risk without added incentive. The dude is trying to be the first player to come back from a cartilage transplant. Even if he does return at any level near his former self, next year is going to be a recovery year.

That is the same injury that cut short Brandon Roy's career? I would go for TJMcC or other reliable backup instead.

[younggunsmn]

When thinking about PGs...what do you think about taking a chance on Lonzo Ball? It's risky, but if it paid off I think it could work really well. Finch does have experience with Ball from 2019-20 in New Orleans.

Definitely not worth the risk without added incentive. The dude is trying to be the first player to come back from a cartilage transplant. Even if he does return at any level near his former self, next year is going to be a recovery year.

I agree. He has two guaranteed years left at 20+ million and I don't see any team taking a risk until either he gets bought out or that contract runs out.

He's likely done. Maybe in '25 when his contract runs out we take a vet min flyer.

He could also be salary filler in a big trade. Say Vuc leaves, we send them Gobert, and they send us a bunch of draft picks.
Taking that contract might be enough to get an extra 1st rounder or 2.

[minimus]

Wagner can't play the 4 well. Also that second trade is a massive overpay.

Unless you're planning to have Wagner off the bench or McD off the bench no.

IMO Wagner at PF will be better fit next to Gobert than Towns. The hope here is to develop and play Wagner in role similar to Ingles/Bogdanovic in UTA.

With regard to Vassell I think he is already one of the best mid range shooters in NBA, he has all tools to be next Mikal Bridges. I believe that we will be much better if we can find a shooter who can contribute in defense.

Just because he'll be a better fit doesn't mean we should trade for him. Who cares about his fit next to Rudy? Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

If you're trading KAT because of poor fit next to Ant then you should for sure be trading Gobert because he's a terrible fit next to Ant.

Two picks for Vessell... Are you trying to rebuild the Utah Jazz? They blew it up for a reason.

How many time you watched ORL and SAS games? Wagner and Vassell both have chances to be stars in NBA. Also both are highly versatile players because of their archetypes:

Wagner is a big point forward who can put the ball on the floor, can slash, shoot, pass and defend

Vassell is a big guard who can be more than 3&D role player because of his shooting

Suggs is struggling mightily in offense but he is already one of the best defenders at PG position. Imagine him and Conley working together

[Note30]

IMO Wagner at PF will be better fit next to Gobert than Towns. The hope here is to develop and play Wagner in role similar to Ingles/Bogdanovic in UTA.

With regard to Vassell I think he is already one of the best mid range shooters in NBA, he has all tools to be next Mikal Bridges. I believe that we will be much better if we can find a shooter who can contribute in defense.

Just because he'll be a better fit doesn't mean we should trade for him. Who cares about his fit next to Rudy? Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

If you're trading KAT because of poor fit next to Ant then you should for sure be trading Gobert because he's a terrible fit next to Ant.

Two picks for Vessell... Are you trying to rebuild the Utah Jazz? They blew it up for a reason.

How many time you watched ORL and SAS games? Wagner and Vassell both have chances to be stars in NBA. Also both are highly versatile players because of their archetypes:

Wagner is a big point forward who can put the ball on the floor, can slash, shoot, pass and defend

Vassell is a big guard who can be more than 3&D role player because of his shooting

Suggs is struggling mightily in offense but he is already one of the best defenders at PG position. Imagine him and Conley working together

That doesn't mean Wagner is a 4. I like him, but unless he's a backup or you're trading McDaniels what's your plan?

Unless you think Reid on a new contract is worth two picks then there's no way Vassell is. He wouldn't be more than a 6th man here.

Suggs can't even start on his own team, working with a vet won't change anything.

[shangrila]

When thinking about PGs...what do you think about taking a chance on Lonzo Ball? It's risky, but if it paid off I think it could work really well. Finch does have experience with Ball from 2019-20 in New Orleans.

Definitely not worth the risk without added incentive. The dude is trying to be the first player to come back from a cartilage transplant. Even if he does return at any level near his former self, next year is going to be a recovery year.

I agree. He has two guaranteed years left at 20+ million and I don't see any team taking a risk until either he gets bought out or that contract runs out.

He's likely done. Maybe in '25 when his contract runs out we take a vet min flyer.

He could also be salary filler in a big trade. Say Vuc leaves, we send them Gobert, and they send us a bunch of draft picks.
Taking that contract might be enough to get an extra 1st rounder or 2.

Stylistically Ball is the kind of PG we could use but I agree there's no way anyone should take a chance on him now.

[minimus]

Just because he'll be a better fit doesn't mean we should trade for him. Who cares about his fit next to Rudy? Rudy isn't gonna work with Ant, they've had all season and they can't figure out more than one out of bounds play that works.

If you're trading KAT because of poor fit next to Ant then you should for sure be trading Gobert because he's a terrible fit next to Ant.

Two picks for Vessell... Are you trying to rebuild the Utah Jazz? They blew it up for a reason.

How many time you watched ORL and SAS games? Wagner and Vassell both have chances to be stars in NBA. Also both are highly versatile players because of their archetypes:

Wagner is a big point forward who can put the ball on the floor, can slash, shoot, pass and defend

Vassell is a big guard who can be more than 3&D role player because of his shooting

Suggs is struggling mightily in offense but he is already one of the best defenders at PG position. Imagine him and Conley working together

That doesn't mean Wagner is a 4. I like him, but unless he's a backup or you're trading McDaniels what's your plan?

Unless you think Reid on a new contract is worth two picks then there's no way Vassell is. He wouldn't be more than a 6th man here.

Suggs can't even start on his own team, working with a vet won't change anything.

All three Wagner, Vassell and Suggs are young and improving. Maybe Wagner is not a traditional PF, but neither was Bogdanovic nor Ingles. The plan is to have multiple versatile offensive players at wings. Wagner/MCD/Edwards/Anderson/TP/Vassell. Wagner is already a gifted finisher at rim

Read on Twitter

And he is versatile defender.

Read on Twitter

As I already said Vassell has star ceiling. Imagine him playing next to Edwards and Gobert, using their rim gravity. He is long, athletic, he defends.

Read on Twitter

Have you seen Suggs playing defense? Many thinks he is a PG, but reality is that he is more Caruso type of player. Do you want Caruso defense on rookie contract?

Watch on YouTube

[Klomp]

If Connelly were to blow up the experiment, I still wonder if Portland might be an interesting trade partner. They have an interesting mix of youngish players with upside along with decent contracts. I think while maybe not a natural PG, Simons is someone who I think could fit alongside Edwards. Can't say I'd be excited about helping a division rival though.

A team like Chicago could offer an attractive young wing in Williams to team up with McDaniels. Same story with Toronto.

[Note30]

How many time you watched ORL and SAS games? Wagner and Vassell both have chances to be stars in NBA. Also both are highly versatile players because of their archetypes:

Wagner is a big point forward who can put the ball on the floor, can slash, shoot, pass and defend

Vassell is a big guard who can be more than 3&D role player because of his shooting

Suggs is struggling mightily in offense but he is already one of the best defenders at PG position. Imagine him and Conley working together

That doesn't mean Wagner is a 4. I like him, but unless he's a backup or you're trading McDaniels what's your plan?

Unless you think Reid on a new contract is worth two picks then there's no way Vassell is. He wouldn't be more than a 6th man here.

Suggs can't even start on his own team, working with a vet won't change anything.

All three Wagner, Vassell and Suggs are young and improving. Maybe Wagner is not a traditional PF, but neither was Bogdanovic nor Ingles. The plan is to have multiple versatile offensive players at wings. Wagner/MCD/Edwards/Anderson/TP/Vassell. Wagner is already a gifted finisher at rim

Read on Twitter

And he is versatile defender.

Read on Twitter

As I already said Vassell has star ceiling. Imagine him playing next to Edwards and Gobert, using their rim gravity. He is long, athletic, he defends.

Read on Twitter

Have you seen Suggs playing defense? Many thinks he is a PG, but reality is that he is more Caruso type of player. Do you want Caruso defense on rookie contract?

Watch on YouTube

Ingles was an is not a 4. Bogdanovic wasn't either he just had to play the 4. ONeale was a versatile defender that could cover either position. It was not a successful way to cover. I am not saying Wagner is not skilled!!!! I am not saying he's not a good player! I'm just saying he can't play the 4.

What is your plan for Vessell which position does he play, what's the lineup later?

Based on what you're saying it should be

Vessell Ant McD Wagner Gobert.

Who's the point guard? Ant?

Wagner is not a 4.

I'm not saying Vessell is not a good player nor am I saying Wagner isn't either. Where do they play tho? You picked the same positions as Ant and McD.

So what's the plan!!

[Neeva]

I’d stay far away from Simons. Portland fans all want him gone, he plays no defense , will be a lesser Dlo.

[minimus]

That doesn't mean Wagner is a 4. I like him, but unless he's a backup or you're trading McDaniels what's your plan?

Unless you think Reid on a new contract is worth two picks then there's no way Vassell is. He wouldn't be more than a 6th man here.

Suggs can't even start on his own team, working with a vet won't change anything.

All three Wagner, Vassell and Suggs are young and improving. Maybe Wagner is not a traditional PF, but neither was Bogdanovic nor Ingles. The plan is to have multiple versatile offensive players at wings. Wagner/MCD/Edwards/Anderson/TP/Vassell. Wagner is already a gifted finisher at rim

Read on Twitter

And he is versatile defender.

Read on Twitter

As I already said Vassell has star ceiling. Imagine him playing next to Edwards and Gobert, using their rim gravity. He is long, athletic, he defends.

Read on Twitter

Have you seen Suggs playing defense? Many thinks he is a PG, but reality is that he is more Caruso type of player. Do you want Caruso defense on rookie contract?

Watch on YouTube

Ingles was an is not a 4. Bogdanovic wasn't either he just had to play the 4. ONeale was a versatile defender that could cover either position. It was not a successful way to cover. I am not saying Wagner is not skilled!!!! I am not saying he's not a good player! I'm just saying he can't play the 4.

What is your plan for Vessell which position does he play, what's the lineup later?

Based on what you're saying it should be

Vessell Ant McD Wagner Gobert.

Who's the point guard? Ant?

Wagner is not a 4.

I'm not saying Vessell is not a good player nor am I saying Wagner isn't either. Where do they play tho? You picked the same positions as Ant and McD.

So what's the plan!!

Is Keegan Murray or Harrison Barnes a PF? Or maybe Tatum is a PF? Is Aaron Gordon a classic PF? Wagner is more than capable to play PF. In modern perimeter oriented basketball what skills you need next to Gobert? IMO Wagner has all tools to be such hybrid combo forward.

As for Vassell the plan is to play him as 6th man, basically replacing TP after next year. His role is to be a designated shooter/scorer. Right now we don't have any reliable shooter at wings. As you can see there is a lot of opportunities behind Edwards and MCD, otherwise Finch would not try to play awful defenders such as Nowell and Forbes, and mediocre at best Austin Rivers. Lack of shooters is one reason why pass first PGs such as Conley and McLaughlin underperform. Also if we getva knockdown shooter such as Vassell we can move NAW to PG position and lock perimeter.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

How much interest would you guys have if we were to say Klay and Poole are both available?

[Note30]

How much interest would you guys have if we were to say Klay and Poole are both available?

How much would it cost?

They are negative contracts. (Klay won't resign)

Poole is a def negative.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

How much interest would you guys have if we were to say Klay and Poole are both available?

How much would it cost?

They are negative contracts. (Klay won't resign)

Poole is a def negative.

Throwing our 2023 1st Round Pick (#19)

Klay + Poole + 2023 #19 for Gobert + Mike Conley?

[Note30]

How much interest would you guys have if we were to say Klay and Poole are both available?

How much would it cost?

They are negative contracts. (Klay won't resign)

Poole is a def negative.

Throwing our 2023 1st Round Pick (#19)

Klay + Poole + 2023 #19 for Gobert + Mike Conley?

Add in Kuminga, DiVicenzo and take Prince and you got a deal.

Ant DiVicenzo
Klay Poole
McD #19
Anderson Kuminga
Towns Reid

I could get behind. Just got to trade Towns and #19 for Capela and Murray and we're set.

Murray DiVicenzo
Ant Poole
Klay Kuming
McD Anderson
Capela Reid

[Battletrigger]

If Connelly were to blow up the experiment, I still wonder if Portland might be an interesting trade partner. They have an interesting mix of youngish players with upside along with decent contracts. I think while maybe not a natural PG, Simons is someone who I think could fit alongside Edwards. Can't say I'd be excited about helping a division rival though.

A team like Chicago could offer an attractive young wing in Williams to team up with McDaniels. Same story with Toronto.

I was very high on Williams before the draft but this last two years I haven't watch Bulls. Is he some kind of bust?

[Battletrigger]

1) trade Towns, Knight, McLaughlin for Franz Wagner, Suggs, Isaac and three top-10 protected picks.

2) re-route Isaac and two top-10 protected MIN picks for Devin Vassell and McDermott (waive)

3) resign Reid 60mil/4yrs, Garza 8mil/4yrs, NAW 18mil/3yrs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Wagner/Anderson/Minott
MCD/TP/NAW
Edwards/Vassell/Moore
Conley/Suggs/NAW

Why for ORL: build around Towns-Banchero duo, on paper they look very good five-out fondatoin
Why for SAS: re-invest assets, maybe trade nonguaranteed Isaac contract later

Why for MIN: rebuild roster with wing depth. At first sight it is a bit too crowdy at wings: Wagner-Anderson-Minott-MCD-TP-Vassell-Moore-NAW. But Anderson and TP only have one full year left in contract. Let them help young players and after next year we will have Wagner-Minott-MCD-Vassell-Moore-NAW rotation, Same with Conley and Suggs/NAW.

Two days ago, I'd say he'll no, But today I will do it, but I will make another trade, I cannot see more of Gobert, I really dislike that man.

What about Brown or Smart? Smart was almost done last year and Brown have been a trade rumor for some time.

[minimus]

Towns for Giddey, Isaiah Joe, 2024 HOU, 2024 UTA, 2026 HOU FRP picks

Why for OKC: re-invest picks (it is difficult to develop so many young players at the same time), make next step
Why for MIN: get hybrid point forward to play next to Gobert, get an elite sharpshooter and picks. Trade Towns before his extension kicks, save some salary cap for Reid/MCD/Edwards extensions

Resign Reid 60mil/4yrs, Garza 8mil/4yrs, NAW 18mil/3yrs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Giddey/Anderson/Minott
MCD/TP/Moore
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Joe/NAW

My idea is to invest in hybrid point forward, because I dont see any easy long-term solution for PG position. Thats why we should keep Conley next year. Giddey/Anderson combo shares with PG workload. Meanwhile at SG we ask a bit more ballhandling from Edwards/Moore/NAW, and at backup PG we will have catch-and-shoot guys such as Joe/NAW which might make easier for slashers to kick-out on perimeter.

I wonder whether for big wings such as Giddey, MCD passing to Gobert is "easier" because they see over smaller players and can "simply" pass over/around defense.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[moss_is_1]

Sick of watching Towns man. He's been pretty awful. Maybe it's still coming back from injury, but frustrating to watch him get punked by smaller guys. He needs to watch more Dirk, develop go to moves and counters.

[Note30]

Sick of watching Towns man. He's been pretty awful. Maybe it's still coming back from injury, but frustrating to watch him get punked by smaller guys. He needs to watch more Dirk, develop go to moves and counters.

He needs to bulk up and play less minutes.

[YaleS]

In an attempt to fix the (Please Use More Appropriate Word) Gobert deal we will end up destroying the team. We cant move Gobert because it will be instant admission of failure and the return will be laughable. So we will move KAT at his lowest price ever, who fits way better with Ant and is overall better player. After missing a ton of games and sucking in the playoffs again, KATs value cant be worse