The Official 2023 Draft Thread

[Dat2U]

Is there any reason why Bates is still mocked to go in the 2nd round? He wasn't terribly efficient this year, but 6'10 with handle and shot creation ability and still only 19 is something that would be hard to pass up outside of the lottery.

lol sounds like you are talking about Isiah Todd

Plus Bates is a knucklehead. I think he's a broke man's Adam Morrison. Weak 1st step and lack of core strength & explosion turn him into a tough shot maker 20 ft from basket consistently & he can't defend anyone, no matter the competition. I don't view him as really draftable.

[AFM]

Do you think Scoot is as good a prospect as John was?

[Dat2U]

Do you think Scoot is as good a prospect as John was?

Yes. Wall had better straight line speed but Scoot has more wiggle to his game. John of course has an inch or two and a 6-9 reach but Scoot will have a more diverse layup package with his contortionist abilities and he gets off the ground with a little more pop. Skill wise though I think they are at very similar stages of their development coming in. Both have scoring instinct but can make high level reads and decisions with bouts of out of control play.

This is not Ja Morant though. Ja is different level of athlete and more polished skill wise than both. But I could certainly see a scenario where Scoot has a nice stretch where he's making multiple all-star games in a row and in conversation as a top 5-10 PG.

[NatP4]

Desmond Bane taking over a pivotal playoff game on the road. 30th overall pick. Selected after Kira Lewis, Peyton Prichard, Tyrese Maxey, Cole Anthony.

[gambitx777]

Do you think Scoot is as good a prospect as John was?

Yes. Wall had better straight line speed but Scoot has more wiggle to his game. John of course has an inch or two and a 6-9 reach but Scoot will have a more diverse layup package with his contortionist abilities and he gets off the ground with a little more pop. Skill wise though I think they are at very similar stages of their development coming in. Both have scoring instinct but can make high level reads and decisions with bouts of out of control play.

This is not Ja Morant though. Ja is different level of athlete and more polished skill wise than both. But I could certainly see a scenario where Scoot has a nice stretch where he's making multiple all-star games in a row and in conversation as a top 5-10 PG.

I think Carson Wallace is gonna be a better player than scoot. That's just my opinion.

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[NatP4]

I think Podziemski will be better than Scoot. Mostly relates to his horrendous defense. He’ll be a really good passer, but when teams just go under screens, or switch pick and rolls on him, he’s going to have trouble breaking down defenses. His shot is just not going to be a factor.

Don’t think he’s a bust, but not the superstar everyone is making him out to be.

[payitforward]

Desmond Bane taking over a pivotal playoff game on the road. 30th overall pick. Selected after Kira Lewis, Peyton Prichard, Tyrese Maxey, Cole Anthony.

Here, with their pick positions, are the 16 players out of the 2020 draft who have put up good numbers. The order is of pick position, obviously, not of how good they've been:

Lamelo - 3
Isaac Okoru - 5
Onyeka Okongwu - 6
Tyrese Haliburton - 12
Josh Green - 18
Saddiq Bey - 19 ('22-23 was his first good year)
Tyrese Maxey - 21
Immanuel Quickley - 25
Payton Pritchard - 26 (but had a down year this year)
Desmond Bane - 30
Xavier Tillman - 35
Tre Jones - 41
Nick Richards - 42
Isaiah Joe - 49 ('22-23 was his first good year -- but it was *quite* good!)
KMart Jr. - 52
Paul Reed - 58 (in limited minutes)

Twenty of the thirty R1 picks from that year have ranged from bad to frustrating to nothing special: 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29.

Note how evenly that bad/meh list is distributed across R1:
3 of the top 5
4 of the next 5
4 of the third 5
3 of the fourth 5
3 of the fifth 5
3 of the last 5

[Dat2U]

I think Podziemski will be better than Scoot. Mostly relates to his horrendous defense. He’ll be a really good passer, but when teams just go under screens, or switch pick and rolls on him, he’s going to have trouble breaking down defenses. His shot is just not going to be a factor.

Don’t think he’s a bust, but not the superstar everyone is making him out to be.

Podz doesn't look like he can defend many guys on the NBA level going off the eye test. You cannot tell me teams aren't going to attack him relentlessly whenever he's on the floor.

[NatP4]

I think Podziemski will be better than Scoot. Mostly relates to his horrendous defense. He’ll be a really good passer, but when teams just go under screens, or switch pick and rolls on him, he’s going to have trouble breaking down defenses. His shot is just not going to be a factor.

Don’t think he’s a bust, but not the superstar everyone is making him out to be.

Podz doesn't look like he can defend many guys on the NBA level going off the eye test. You cannot tell me teams aren't going to attack him relentlessly whenever he's on the floor.

I see Steph Curry on defense. Not a stopper, not the most physically gifted player, but extremely smart and understands that he has to compensate on that end. Gets steals and blocks.

It was an intentional thing at Santa Clara, Podziemski would let his man go into the help defense, and go for the rebound instead of trying to recover. That’s why he averaged 9 something rebounds per36. Just a really smart and self aware defender. I expect him to be a massive plus on offense and average to slightly below average on defense.

Ironically, no one will point out anything regarding defense with a more physically gifted player like Scoot. His on/off defensive rating differential was dead last on the Ignite, but you don’t even need those numbers, the eye test is brutal with him. His defense is like Colin Sexton/Jaden Ivey level bad. Lost and disinterested. Not big enough to be a help defender or switchable.

[DCZards]

Desmond Bane taking over a pivotal playoff game on the road. 30th overall pick. Selected after Kira Lewis, Peyton Prichard, Tyrese Maxey, Cole Anthony.

Here, with their pick positions, are the 16 players out of the 2020 draft who have put up good numbers. The order is of pick position, obviously, not of how good they've been:

Lamelo - 3
Isaac Okoru - 5
Onyeka Okongwu - 6
Tyrese Haliburton - 12
Josh Green - 18
Saddiq Bey - 19 ('22-23 was his first good year)
Tyrese Maxey - 21
Immanuel Quickley - 25
Payton Pritchard - 26 (but had a down year this year)
Desmond Bane - 30
Xavier Tillman - 35
Tre Jones - 41
Nick Richards - 42
Isaiah Joe - 49 ('22-23 was his first good year -- but it was *quite* good!)
KMart Jr. - 52
Paul Reed - 58 (in limited minutes)

Though they might have better #s, I see at most one or two players on this list that I’d take over the #1 pick in 2020--Anthony Edwards.

His numbers have improved year each year. This year they were solid, despite being the focal point of his team’s offense and the other team’s defense. And he’s still just 21.

Edwards has really stepped it up during the playoffs…making big shot after big shot to keep the T’Wolves competitive. On top of that, he’s a natural leader.

[payitforward]

Though they might have better #s, I see at most one or two players on this list that I’d take over the #1 pick in 2020--Anthony Edwards.

His numbers have improved year each year. This year they were solid, despite being the focal point of his team’s offense and the other team’s defense. And he’s still just 21.

Edwards has really stepped it up during the playoffs…making big shot after big shot to keep the T’Wolves competitive. On top of that, he’s a natural leader.

Well, you do expect at least 1, usually 2, of the top 3 picks to wind up among the best players out of a draft.

In any case, my post simply describes how things look right now. So far. I'm not about to carve rankings on a wall in stone!

Edwards had a pretty awful rookie year. He's been better the last 2 years, but I wouldn't say his numbers, overall, have been good yet on a whole season. OTOH, as you say, he's still only 21 years old!

As to keeping his team competitive in Round 1 of the playoffs, well... they really aren't competitive to tell the truth. But, that's not on him, & he's helped them avoid the embarrassment of an 0-4 sweep.

Overall, Edwards has shot 36-87 in the 4 games (including 15-37 on 3s) & 30-35 on FTs for a terrific .630 TS%. Not to mention that he has more steals than turnovers.

I don't have it in for Anthony Edwards.
OTOH, 9 of the next 13 picks, down through the end of the lottery, have basically done nothing.

[9 and 20]

Do you think Scoot is as good a prospect as John was?

Yes. Wall had better straight line speed but Scoot has more wiggle to his game. John of course has an inch or two and a 6-9 reach but Scoot will have a more diverse layup package with his contortionist abilities and he gets off the ground with a little more pop. Skill wise though I think they are at very similar stages of their development coming in. Both have scoring instinct but can make high level reads and decisions with bouts of out of control play.

This is not Ja Morant though. Ja is different level of athlete and more polished skill wise than both. But I could certainly see a scenario where Scoot has a nice stretch where he's making multiple all-star games in a row and in conversation as a top 5-10 PG.

It's been a minute, but wasn't John Wall considered like an all-time great prospect? Kentucky Wall was supposed to immediately come in and transform a team, from what I remember.

[ozthegap]

Do you think Scoot is as good a prospect as John was?

Yes. Wall had better straight line speed but Scoot has more wiggle to his game. John of course has an inch or two and a 6-9 reach but Scoot will have a more diverse layup package with his contortionist abilities and he gets off the ground with a little more pop. Skill wise though I think they are at very similar stages of their development coming in. Both have scoring instinct but can make high level reads and decisions with bouts of out of control play.

This is not Ja Morant though. Ja is different level of athlete and more polished skill wise than both. But I could certainly see a scenario where Scoot has a nice stretch where he's making multiple all-star games in a row and in conversation as a top 5-10 PG.

It's been a minute, but wasn't John Wall considered like an all-time great prospect? Kentucky Wall was supposed to immediately come in and transform a team, from what I remember.

Didn't he? We went from a bunch of clowns to a semi decent team during his tenure. We weren't as fun to watch as the Agent 0 years but we definitely achieved more playoff success.

[nate33]

Yes. Wall had better straight line speed but Scoot has more wiggle to his game. John of course has an inch or two and a 6-9 reach but Scoot will have a more diverse layup package with his contortionist abilities and he gets off the ground with a little more pop. Skill wise though I think they are at very similar stages of their development coming in. Both have scoring instinct but can make high level reads and decisions with bouts of out of control play.

This is not Ja Morant though. Ja is different level of athlete and more polished skill wise than both. But I could certainly see a scenario where Scoot has a nice stretch where he's making multiple all-star games in a row and in conversation as a top 5-10 PG.

It's been a minute, but wasn't John Wall considered like an all-time great prospect? Kentucky Wall was supposed to immediately come in and transform a team, from what I remember.

Didn't he? We went from a bunch of clowns to a semi decent team during his tenure. We weren't as fun to watch as the Agent 0 years but we definitely achieved more playoff success.

I wouldn't really credit Wall for transforming the team. The team was terrible in Wall's first 3 seasons until all the "clowns" (McGee, Blatche, Young) were removed by Grunfeld and replaced with veterans (Nene, Gortat, Ariza, Gooden; and later Morris and Pierce). Wall also had a lot more help than Arenas with two top 3 picks (Beal and Porter) alongside him.

[gambitx777]

It's been a minute, but wasn't John Wall considered like an all-time great prospect? Kentucky Wall was supposed to immediately come in and transform a team, from what I remember.

Didn't he? We went from a bunch of clowns to a semi decent team during his tenure. We weren't as fun to watch as the Agent 0 years but we definitely achieved more playoff success.

I wouldn't really credit Wall for transforming the team. The team was terrible in Wall's first 3 seasons until all the "clowns" (McGee, Blatche, Young) were removed by Grunfeld and replaced with veterans (Nene, Gortat, Ariza, Gooden; and later Morris and Pierce). Wall also had a lot more help than Arenas with two top 3 picks (Beal and Porter) alongside him.

Don't forget NeNe was a top ten pick back in the day!

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[payitforward]

Didn't he? We went from a bunch of clowns to a semi decent team during his tenure. We weren't as fun to watch as the Agent 0 years but we definitely achieved more playoff success.

I wouldn't really credit Wall for transforming the team. The team was terrible in Wall's first 3 seasons until all the "clowns" (McGee, Blatche, Young) were removed by Grunfeld and replaced with veterans (Nene, Gortat, Ariza, Gooden; and later Morris and Pierce). Wall also had a lot more help than Arenas with two top 3 picks (Beal and Porter) alongside him.

Don't forget NeNe was a top ten pick back in the day!

That's so long ago they were still counting in Roman numerals!

Nene went # VII in MMIII.

[NatP4]

Box and One has Cissoko all the way up to 15 in his latest mock draft video.

Also has Ausar going 9th! Whitmore, Wallace, Hendricks, And Walker all going above him. Total nonsense

[Dark Faze]

Nat have you dropped your top 5 preferred picks for the Wiz yet?

[badinage]

Desmond Bane taking over a pivotal playoff game on the road. 30th overall pick. Selected after Kira Lewis, Peyton Prichard, Tyrese Maxey, Cole Anthony.

Here, with their pick positions, are the 16 players out of the 2020 draft who have put up good numbers. The order is of pick position, obviously, not of how good they've been:

Lamelo - 3
Isaac Okoru - 5
Onyeka Okongwu - 6
Tyrese Haliburton - 12
Josh Green - 18
Saddiq Bey - 19 ('22-23 was his first good year)
Tyrese Maxey - 21
Immanuel Quickley - 25
Payton Pritchard - 26 (but had a down year this year)
Desmond Bane - 30
Xavier Tillman - 35
Tre Jones - 41
Nick Richards - 42
Isaiah Joe - 49 ('22-23 was his first good year -- but it was *quite* good!)
KMart Jr. - 52
Paul Reed - 58 (in limited minutes)

Twenty of the thirty R1 picks from that year have ranged from bad to frustrating to nothing special: 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29.

Note how evenly that bad/meh list is distributed across R1:
3 of the top 5
4 of the next 5
4 of the third 5
3 of the fourth 5
3 of the fifth 5
3 of the last 5

Put up good OFFENSIVE numbers.

From the metrics I’ve seen, Deni appears to be a far, far better defensive player — half the game — than all of these guys.

[NatP4]

Nat have you dropped your top 5 preferred picks for the Wiz yet?

If we stay put up 8/9 and don’t trade up or down, I would pick:

1. Bilal Coulibaly (mocked 25-35ish)
2. Ausar Thompson (if he miraculously drops)
3. Sidy Cissoko (mocked 15-28ish)
4. Brandon Podziemski (mocked 30-40ish)
5. Derrick Lively

Pretty clear to me that we should trade down, as I’m stating that I would take Coulibaly, Cissoko, Podziemski all the way up in the top 10, yet they are mocked mid to late 1st at best. Cissoko is rising rapidly, Coulibaly will do the same after recently declaring. We shall see

It’s possible that Coulibaly ends up being projected in the top 10. I would go into draft night looking to take Ausar/Coulibaly at 8/9. If both are gone, trade down with Utah for 16&28 and take Cissoko/Podziemski.

If you win any of the top 4 picks, I’m ranking the top 4 like this personally:

1. Wemby
2. Coulibaly
3. Ausar
4. Miller

Scoot and Amen do absolutely have upside, but I have some real concerns.