Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[Dick Tate]

Hard to believe Giannis was a 75+% FT shooter for a couple of seasons in his early 20s.

After watching Giannis try to put the team on his back in the 4th and failing to hit anything outside of 6 feet, I came away with the impression that the only way for Giannis to win another title is to pair him with a ball-dominant SG (Shaq/Kobe, Shaq/DWade). Unfortunately, I don't see a path to that happening in Milwaukee.

I wonder what Horst would do if he got an outrageous offer from Portland this summer?

[Serge28]

Keep Horst. It's not his fault that all the tools he assembled for Bud for this playoff run weren't properly utilized, cause Bud is not in Spo's league as a coach and doesn't know how to adjust to adjustments.

It's his fault that Bud is the coach, that we don't have a PG, and that he took the easy way out trading every draft asset we have for Disaster Artist Jrue Holiday (and to a lesser degree, Jae)

Jrue Holiday trade won us a championship. Do you really think Bud's job is entirely in Horst's hands?

[Antinomy]

Pretty good chance we wasted Brook's last elite season. Could see him falling off a cliff fast. Who's the last 7 footer to play at a high level at 36 years old?

Brook was phenomenal this year but I’ve always thought his defensive role was too big.

Far too often, he gets left on an island defending a guard or wing with 15 feet of space between them coming downhill.

Him contesting the most shots in the league by a wide margin was a major indicator.

Imagine you’re an opposing team practicing to play the Bucks & you know you’re gonna get 15-20 feet of space EVERY TIME once you come around a screen behind the arc.

The pull-up is there. The floater is there. The banker. The 3. The mid-range. Etc.

There’s a reason why even their “bums” were walking into shots with confidence. Because they knew they’d be mostly open.

His role & duties defensively need to reduced — he was so good at what he did that he sorta limited how we could defend.

Bud not shifting from his gameplan allowed us to often be exploited for atleast 1-2 games every series.

[Dick Tate]

If talking tweaks, i'd prefer to keep Brook. The 6th man of the year candidate was afraid to shoot when the going got tough.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, lost in all this will inevitably be that Giannis clearly wasn't himself after the back injury. This is why I'm just gonna entirely avoid any podcasts, General Board garbage, or national media takes. Nothing but simpleton casuals looking at the box score and doing the usual "hurr durr he played and put up good numbers so he looked healthy to me".

He clearly was trying to gut it out despite his explosiveness being almost completely absent. Take it from someone whose back injuries in high school basically prevented me from playing basketball at a competitive level ever since, it ruins your body more than any knee injury will.

[RiotPunch]

Keep Horst. It's not his fault that all the tools he assembled for Bud for this playoff run weren't properly utilized, cause Bud is not in Spo's league as a coach and doesn't know how to adjust to adjustments.

It's his fault that Bud is the coach, that we don't have a PG, and that he took the easy way out trading every draft asset we have for Disaster Artist Jrue Holiday (and to a lesser degree, Jae)

Jrue Holiday trade won us a championship. Do you really think Bud's job is entirely in Horst's hands?

The championship earns him a pass for Jrue, I guess. We did not win because of the Jrue trade, though. He had his moments (some huge ones), but was largely bad on that run, too. Giannis and Khris were not being denied that year.

I do not, but Horst is very clearly Bud's #1 fan from all of the interviews available to us.

[Serge28]

Read on Twitter

[theFireBlanket]

Yeah, lost in all this will inevitably be that Giannis clearly wasn't himself after the back injury. This is why I'm just gonna entirely avoid any podcasts, General Board garbage, or national media takes. Nothing but simpleton casuals looking at the box score and doing the usual "hurr durr he played and put up good numbers so he looked healthy to me".

He clearly was trying to gut it out despite his explosiveness being almost completely absent. Take it from someone whose back injuries in high school basically prevented me from playing basketball at a competitive level ever since, it ruins your body more than any knee injury will.

oh well, sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles

[humanrefutation]

Giannis's answer to Nehm was incredibly poignant and professional for a guy coming off of a brutal and humiliating series loss. I'm proud to root for that dude.

I'm not even ragging on Nehm, either. Dude asked a question that elicited a really great response, which is what you want from a journalist.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If Phoenix flames out I could see something like Ayton for Holliday being available. Ayton would absolutely drive the fan base insane but he'd also be an interesting young building block with Giannis.

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[tydett]

Giannis's answer to Nehm was incredibly poignant and professional for a guy coming off of a brutal and humiliating series loss. I'm proud to root for that dude.

I'm not even ragging on Nehm, either. Dude asked a question that elicited a really great response, which is what you want from a journalist.

Above all basketball, I will always respect that we have had Giannis as our cornerstone. In the same year where Kyrie is **** crazy and blows up a title contender, Ja tries to cosplay as a thug, Rudy punches a teammate during a game, Jaylen negotiates maybe the worst CBA possible to get rid of weed tests while also starting his Kyrie arc, Draymond stomps and Trae kills another coach (among other stories from this soap opera we call the Association) - we have a solid, humble human being who is considerate and thoughtful who keeps the right perspective almost all the time.

EXCEPT FOR THE **** LADDER WHAT A PRETENDER

[humanrefutation]

On the list of things I want to have happen this offseason, canning Bud and replacing him with a head coach who knows how to make adjustments is priority #1.

Bud isn't a terrible coach. He creates a really good culture and he has a system that can win a lot of games. He was probably the perfect coach to rinse out the stink of the Kidd era. But he just doesn't adjust when his system is gameplanned for and executed against.

I know people are bashing Jrue, but I still like that dude. I just think he's miscast as a point and it's unreasonable to expect him to run the offense and guard the opponent's best player. Even when we won the title, Jrue was often helping on defense against Booker, rather than guarding him 1v1. I put blame on Bud for not putting Wes or Jae or Giannis on Jimmy. Switching them. Showing him different looks. I don't put that all on Jrue.

That being said, wouldn't be opposed to moving him to upgrade (DAME), but I'm not buying some of these "three quarters for a dollar" trades being proposed here. I'm not dumping him, especially when our cap situation would really inhibit our opportunity to improve otherwise.

Bring in Nurse. Retool around Giannis and Jrue (and Khris if he opts in). I'd be fine with bringing Brook back on a short term deal, but I think someone is going to pay him big this offseason.

And go from there.

[JayMKE]

tbf the GB actually hasn't been that bad, seems like the consensus is that Budenholzer blew it more than anything with lot of people taking notice of Jrue's performance.

IDK how anybody could watch the games and think Giannis was 100%, he appeared to be in visible pain more than a few times.

[BucksRule18]

At the end of the day someone has to take the fall for this debacle to at least give the impression that we're changing course for the better. Getting rid of Bud is the easiest solution. Whether people like Bud or not, at some point most coaches lose the locker room. If we don't do that, then the pressure from outside forces (the media) will grow even more to get Giannis out of Milwaukee.

[JayMKE]

It would be the definition of insanity to run this team back with Budenholzer, he is that guy and he isn't going to change now. It's the only real play we have this offseason mostly so its just time to move on. Bud will be fine and get another job as soon as he wants it.

[midranger]

I’m not even sure what a full retool could look like:

Jrue for Dort and a bunch of OKC picks
Khris for Rose, Fornier and a bunch of Knicks picks
Those picks and salaries/Allen expiring for Dame

Bobby for Tari Eason

Resign Brook

Dame
Dort
Eason
Giannis
Brook

Pat

[WeekapaugGroove]

I’m not even sure what a full retool could look like:

Jrue for Dort and a bunch of OKC picks
Khris for Rose, Fornier and a bunch of Knicks picks
Those picks and salaries/Allen expiring for Dame

Bobby for Tari Eason

Resign Brook

Dame
Dort
Eason
Giannis
Brook

Pat

Hmm I hadn't thought about OKC but yeah if the Bucks shopped Holiday that's a destination that could make sense for both sides. They need to consolidate and are probably good enough to be in the market for a win now vet this summer. Good call.

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[bucksfansince88]

Keeping Horst and Bud should signal complacency to the league and fan base. I was considering Season Tickets again but its no way I make that buy unless they make big changes to this team

[MissKhriddleton]

I think you have to roll with MB as your starting 2 next year to inject some youth into the rotation. Our future championship aspirations might hinge on him turning into an above average starter, sadly.

[Chessboxer]

Kawhi carried Nurse for a year and he got canned for a reason. Pass. Raptor fans feel the same we feel about Bud. Thanks for the championship but time to go.

I live in Toronto, but I'm also a Giannis stan so I watch both teams up close. Nurse is leagues better than Bud. All the things Bucks fans complain about Bud, Nurse is the opposite. He's constantly making in game adjustments and is not afraid to think outside the box. Teams didn't even really use Box-and 1 in the NBA until Nurse did in the 2019 Finals to throw off Curry. Now quite a few teams do it.. Also he has a stronger personality than Bud, and doesn't panic in tight situations.

When the Raptors were looking for a new coach at the time Nurse and Bud were both in the running the the Raptors chose Nurse. The funny thing, it be poetic for Giannis to play under the coach that has stymied him the past. What better way for Giannis to improve and thrive under defensive schemes to stop him, than to play under the coach that invented the "Giannis Wall". Over the years its been the Raptors that have arguably consistently given Giannis the hardest time.

I mean, even Lebron publicly stated he wanted Nurse as his coach at one point.

I wouldn't even mind see Ty Lue as well.