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2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1001 » by Dalek » Tue May 9, 2023 11:32 pm

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:
Dalek wrote:I can't really see what is missing from Colby Jones, especially in this draft class his age could be forgiven. He fits what most teams want on the floor in close games and/or playoff games.

-Can play either guard spot and is a good enough playmaker to at least be a secondary
-Can guard 1-4 positions
-Shoots threes at 38%
-6'6 height and good wingspan
-Average to good NBA athlete (maybe a bit Brogdon like)

To me there is no question this guy will get on a NBA floor tomorrow.


A concern about him and his ceiling is his shooting ability. There is uncertainty how well or consistently well he will shoot 3's and free throws in the NBA.

Personally I have seen him go through some stretches where he is turnover prone but nothing too alarming. He also is going to only just be solid as a defender, not the kind of player opposing players will worry about going up against on that end but he does show effort on that side of the ball. He's well-rounded and mature but doesn't have the upside to warrant an end of lottery selection.


Basically a good role player who has good size as a guard. Age wise he is turning 21 at the end of the month.

I would like to draft a huge upside prospect, but the more I watch these players the less exciting the guys like Cidy, Bilal, and Miller look to me. They all look like good role players in two years - I am not just seeing the next Jimmy Butler or Mikal Bridges. Maybe Miller has a shot to be interesting because of his size, but he really just did great role player things in the G-League (cut, rebound, score at the rim).

I kind of like Jones because you get a sense he understands the game at a higher level which Toronto kind of needs with all the weaker IQ guys they tend to have.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1002 » by Yallbecrazy » Tue May 9, 2023 11:36 pm

HumbleRen wrote:Brandin Podziemski, Santa Clara
vs. all competition: 10.0 BPM
vs. top 100 teams: 6.5 BPM
vs. top 50 teams: 3.9 BPM


Brandon Miller, Alabama
vs. all competition: 11.0 BPM
vs. top 100 teams: 9.9 BPM
vs. top 50 teams: 6.5 BPM


Taylor Hendricks, UCF
vs. all competition: 7.1 BPM
vs. top 100 teams: 6.4 BPM
vs. top 50 teams: 5.1 BPM


Keyonte George, Baylor
vs. all competition: 4.7
vs. top 100 competition: 3.9
vs. top 50 competition: 2.9


GG Jackson, South Carolina
vs. all competition: -0.5 BPM
vs. top 100 teams: -1.6 BPM
vs. top 50 teams: -1.9 BPM


https://theswishtheory.com/nba-draft/2023/05/the-2023-nba-drafts-whiteboard-prospects/


I think Podz had 2 games vs top 50 competition, both Gonzaga and he was good in one and struggled in the other.

I'm not sure if he had 2-3 additional games against top 100 competition with St Mary's and whomever he played in the NIT. There may have been another couple out of conference games early in the season. The WCC is the best mid major conference, but the teams outside the top 2 are probably in the 100-200 range in D1.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1003 » by billy_hoyle » Wed May 10, 2023 1:28 am

NotMyKawhi wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
SA tanked for Tim Duncan without Tim Duncan they do not win as many titles...Hes one of the greatest Big men to ever play....

Phx got CP3 who is a star who wanted to be there ,KD also demanded a trade there (Not gonna happen for us)

GSW the year they got Curry they been bad for years and basically have been tanking by putting together bad teams and got lucky at 7...(7TH is a good draft pick)

Denver and Mil out of the teams you listed are the 2 that i can see your point but Murray was also a high draft pick....Joker and Giannis are legit franchise players found outside of the lottery....But like i said thats alot rare to find than finding in the top 1-7 Picks....But yes Trades could be good for the Raptors but we are not getting a superstar/franchise player like Kawhi again in a trade....Maybe a DeJounte Murray type....But not a legit top 5 player in a trade ....Won't happen for the Raptors ever again


Jokic at #41
Draymond at #35
Butler at #30
Giannis at #15
Kawhi at #15
Booker at #13
Mitchell at #13
Haliburton #12
Klay at #11
George at #10
Curry at #7
etc

It's very possible to add elite talent later in the draft. Very rarely is all the top talent concentrated at the very top. The smart organizations can find it.



Possible, but less likely. You had a list of 11 and included guys like Hali, Draymond and Klay..... I could give you a list of 50 or more guys on that same level picked in the top 5


Every Player listed is at least an all star. All drafted in since 2009.

Give me a list of 50 players better picked in the top 5 of those drafts
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1004 » by Yallbecrazy » Wed May 10, 2023 1:42 am

I think I'm putting Cason ahead of B. Miller in my #2 spot. He's got a good bbiq, seems to be at least a decent shooter. Apparently he had a shoulder injury, so his shooting percentages could have been hampered by that. Also, Kentucky guards constantly outperforming their college production is a thing because Calipari is actually a really terrible in game coach.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1005 » by OakleyDokely » Wed May 10, 2023 1:43 am

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1006 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Wed May 10, 2023 2:05 am

Yallbecrazy wrote:I think I'm putting Cason ahead of B. Miller in my #2 spot. He's got a good bbiq, seems to be at least a decent shooter. Apparently he had a shoulder injury, so his shooting percentages could have been hampered by that. Also, Kentucky guards constantly outperforming their college production is a thing because Calipari is actually a really terrible in game coach.


Wallace is very underrated as a shooter, he's a lot better than his percentages indicate. As I wrote before I saw someone post about how he shot 48% from corner 3's and over 40% from NBA range 3's. I'm not worried about his ability to hit open shots or shots that come within the rhythm of an offense. He should be really good at it in the NBA. Self-creation is a different story though but I think he can work to unlock some things.

“Cason is the type of player you dream about coaching. He is the best rebounder, scorer, defender and leader on the floor in every game he plays. He makes his teammates better and he’s just a winner.” - Cason's HS coach
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1007 » by HumbleRen » Wed May 10, 2023 3:28 am

Yallbecrazy wrote:I think I'm putting Cason ahead of B. Miller in my #2 spot. He's got a good bbiq, seems to be at least a decent shooter. Apparently he had a shoulder injury, so his shooting percentages could have been hampered by that. Also, Kentucky guards constantly outperforming their college production is a thing because Calipari is actually a really terrible in game coach.


What the hell lmao
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1008 » by Rapsfan07 » Wed May 10, 2023 3:31 am

Dalek wrote:I can't really see what is missing from Colby Jones, especially in this draft class his age could be forgiven. He fits what most teams want on the floor in close games and/or playoff games.

-Can play either guard spot and is a good enough playmaker to at least be a secondary
-Can guard 1-4 positions
-Shoots threes at 38%
-6'6 height and good wingspan
-Average to good NBA athlete (maybe a bit Brogdon like)

To me there is no question this guy will get on a NBA floor tomorrow.


I've been saying this from the start. He should get NBA minutes from the start and will likely be a valuable contributor for years to come.

The only reason I can see for him constantly being mocked so low is because he doesn't have a very high ceiling. Teams want that hidden gem superstar and rationalize swinging for that over taking what is a pretty sure thing but is unlikely to be a star. For me, if you're picking that late and there's a guy who is guaranteed to be a high level, two way rotation guy, I take that and run.

Really, really hope we find a way to acquire a late first and grab him. He's been my guy from the start and this team desperately needs a do-it-all guard with size. Even if all he becomes is a back up, that's the most depth we've had at that position in 4 years and still has room to improve. I see a Josh Hart floor, Malcolm Brogdon ceiling.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1009 » by Yallbecrazy » Wed May 10, 2023 3:59 am

HumbleRen wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:I think I'm putting Cason ahead of B. Miller in my #2 spot. He's got a good bbiq, seems to be at least a decent shooter. Apparently he had a shoulder injury, so his shooting percentages could have been hampered by that. Also, Kentucky guards constantly outperforming their college production is a thing because Calipari is actually a really terrible in game coach.


What the hell lmao


Cason is top 5 by many people, I fail to see what is so outlandish about having him #2.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1010 » by Kevin Willis » Wed May 10, 2023 4:25 am

After reviewing the two, Cissoko and A. Black are similar types of players. You can probably put out a lineup with Cissoko as a facilataor and he's a solid rebounder. His shot is better too.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1011 » by grant101 » Wed May 10, 2023 4:44 am

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Dalek wrote:I can't really see what is missing from Colby Jones, especially in this draft class his age could be forgiven. He fits what most teams want on the floor in close games and/or playoff games.

-Can play either guard spot and is a good enough playmaker to at least be a secondary
-Can guard 1-4 positions
-Shoots threes at 38%
-6'6 height and good wingspan
-Average to good NBA athlete (maybe a bit Brogdon like)

To me there is no question this guy will get on a NBA floor tomorrow.


I've been saying this from the start. He should get NBA minutes from the start and will likely be a valuable contributor for years to come.

The only reason I can see for him constantly being mocked so low is because he doesn't have a very high ceiling. Teams want that hidden gem superstar and rationalize swinging for that over taking what is a pretty sure thing but is unlikely to be a star. For me, if you're picking that late and there's a guy who is guaranteed to be a high level, two way rotation guy, I take that and run.

Really, really hope we find a way to acquire a late first and grab him. He's been my guy from the start and this team desperately needs a do-it-all guard with size. Even if all he becomes is a back up, that's the most depth we've had at that position in 4 years and still has room to improve. I see a Josh Hart floor, Malcolm Brogdon ceiling.


Jones could very well turn out to be a player, but there is absolutely risk there. He's a jack of all trades, master of none type. Below the rim athlete, average defender, with a one year sample of decent shooting. He'll play a supporting role in the league, so is also unlikely to get the opportunity to showcase the one skill that sets him apart - passing. For every Malcolm Brogdon, there are many more Justin Andersons, Robert Woodards and David Johnsons. Jones reminds me more of Wendell Moore than any of the other names mentioned
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1012 » by NotMyKawhi » Wed May 10, 2023 5:44 am

Come on guys, every mock has the same top 13 guys. You gotta be real disappointed if we don't get one...

Wemb
scoot
miller
twin
twin
whitmore
black
Cason
George
dick
Hendricks
walker
nick smith Jr
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1013 » by Psubs » Wed May 10, 2023 5:45 am

Yallbecrazy wrote:I think I'm putting Cason ahead of B. Miller in my #2 spot. He's got a good bbiq, seems to be at least a decent shooter. Apparently he had a shoulder injury, so his shooting percentages could have been hampered by that. Also, Kentucky guards constantly outperforming their college production is a thing because Calipari is actually a really terrible in game coach.


I love Cason but that's a no. If you want to draft Cason ahead of Scoot at #3 that's cool if you see a taller Jrue.

Miller just looks like minimum he could be Trey Murphy with some more swingman skills. Maybe Paul George?
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1014 » by OakleyDokely » Wed May 10, 2023 12:00 pm

NotMyKawhi wrote:Come on guys, every mock has the same top 13 guys. You gotta be real disappointed if we don't get one...

Wemb
scoot
miller
twin
twin
whitmore
black
Cason
George
dick
Hendricks
walker
nick smith Jr


I can almost guarantee that won't be the top 13. Every draft has risers and fallers after the combine.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1015 » by Psubs » Wed May 10, 2023 1:16 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:After reviewing the two, Cissoko and A. Black are similar types of players. You can probably put out a lineup with Cissoko as a facilataor and he's a solid rebounder. His shot is better too.


I think Black is a little more quick twitch bouncy but Cissoko is stronger.

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1016 » by WuTang_CMB » Wed May 10, 2023 1:25 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Yallbecrazy wrote:I think I'm putting Cason ahead of B. Miller in my #2 spot. He's got a good bbiq, seems to be at least a decent shooter. Apparently he had a shoulder injury, so his shooting percentages could have been hampered by that. Also, Kentucky guards constantly outperforming their college production is a thing because Calipari is actually a really terrible in game coach.


What the hell lmao


ya, not happening.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1017 » by PoundTown » Wed May 10, 2023 1:46 pm

Cissoko, Coulibaly, and Bufkin are three I'd be happy with. Podz and Cason intrigue me. Coulibaly is possibly the swing for the fences pick that Masai wished he had the chance of swinging for with Giannis.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1018 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed May 10, 2023 2:10 pm

Psubs wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:After reviewing the two, Cissoko and A. Black are similar types of players. You can probably put out a lineup with Cissoko as a facilataor and he's a solid rebounder. His shot is better too.


I think Black is a little more quick twitch bouncy but Cissoko is stronger.



Black has defense in his DNA, better handle. Cissoko plays more in control, looks like he has more scoring potential.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1019 » by Jadoogar » Wed May 10, 2023 2:12 pm

Lol John Wall was incredible in his prime, that's not a negative outcome for any draft pick.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 4 

Post#1020 » by Rapsfan07 » Wed May 10, 2023 3:13 pm

Jadoogar wrote:Lol John Wall was incredible in his prime, that's not a negative outcome for any draft pick.

I see a lot of John Wall in Henderson. If someone believe he can actually be that, you still take him at #2 unless you believe Miller is Paul George.

Wall was a sensation before coming into the league and still extremely good when played earlier on in his career.
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