Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[machu46]

How highly do we rank Scoot?

Worth going all out for (whatever that means in practice)?

IMO, he’s a fine prospect but several tiers below Wemby. He doesn’t seem as good a prospect as the guys he’s often compared to (Rose and Ja mainly).


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[Licensed to Il]

If I was the next coach, Id insist on upgrading at PG (or lead guard, whatever you want to call it). Scoot would be intriguing. Then Id install actions where Giannis is of course the leading shooter, but 80+ % of his touches come on screen and rolls, weakside cuts, off ball screen that result in post ups, etc. The other 20% would be in transition, because duh. As I reflect on Budenholzer’s time here, I defended him relentlessly. But he started so much from the perimeter and and also side to side, that it didn’t really take a lot of defenders out the play. There are much better ways to get Giannis easier shots. He doesn’t need 22 seconds to probe and back down to the low block, and take a twisting one hander. You can get him that shot and positioning in 8 seconds. Im not saying there is another developmental level of Giannis, necessarily. But there is absolutely a higher efficiency and energy deployment level. I think that is a big reason (along with the playoff chokes) we are going in a new direction.

[Xanadu]

Guy on the trade board is driving me nuts with this DDR yrade for Middleton. We get P. Williams as well but i kept telling him its not a good trade for us. DDR is older and a worse fit but he keeps arguing. So I am asking here what does our board think of DDR and William for Middleton?

[Xanadu]

Also I think Middleton is far more likely to regain his old self than not. So truthfully I am ok keeping him around. I mean he was always one of those guys who seemed to play himself into shape and never really got a chance this year. But i would really like to get younger to better match Giannis timeline. I have always been a guy who advocates going after younger semi proven talent. Guy like Simons or IQ. Someone who has shown consistent flashes of good but is partially blocked due to other reasons. Try and find that guy right before he blows up to become a star. Brunson for example was great next to Luka gets to new team has more freedom. Then he becomes legit star.

[RiotPunch]

Guy on the trade board is driving me nuts with this DDR yrade for Middleton. We get P. Williams as well but i kept telling him its not a good trade for us. DDR is older and a worse fit but he keeps arguing. So I am asking here what does our board think of DDR and William for Middleton?

I had an idea on here that was mostly well-received, but we were also getting back Paul and Caruso, while sending out Portis.

DDR+Williams for Middleton straight up would be a money saving move only, it is bad basketball-wise. And no way Khris opts into his PO only to be traded to Chicago, IMO.

[RiotPunch]

If the Bucks make the commitment to get younger and athletic, what are the two best Khris and Jrue trades (or possibly just one big one) you can come up with? Go!

Riotpunch’s

Jrue and Bobby for maxey and Tobes

It would likely require harden staying in Philly, but the Philly board liked the proposal a few weeks ago. That would be the one at the top of my list.

Other lesser targets could be simons and Poole where we get more assets back, but I certainly don’t feel as good about those.

I guess KPJ or Jalen Green could be potential targets, too.

All of the deals above would likely be sending out one of the players, not both.

Tobias and Maxey are expiring deals though after next season. Yeah Bird rights for Tobias. Maxey will be RFA. Not sure I wanna even think about Tobias next contract. Bad enough were stuck in that boat now with Middleton opting in or a new max or walks. Also having Tobias. What we doing with Middleton? Giannis already plays PF. I don't want Middleton at SG.

Tobes would be a great deadline trade asset as a big juicy expiring.

[ReasonablySober]

Riotpunch’s

Jrue and Bobby for maxey and Tobes

It would likely require harden staying in Philly, but the Philly board liked the proposal a few weeks ago. That would be the one at the top of my list.

Other lesser targets could be simons and Poole where we get more assets back, but I certainly don’t feel as good about those.

I guess KPJ or Jalen Green could be potential targets, too.

All of the deals above would likely be sending out one of the players, not both.

Tobias and Maxey are expiring deals though after next season. Yeah Bird rights for Tobias. Maxey will be RFA. Not sure I wanna even think about Tobias next contract. Bad enough were stuck in that boat now with Middleton opting in or a new max or walks. Also having Tobias. What we doing with Middleton? Giannis already plays PF. I don't want Middleton at SG.

Tobes would be a great deadline trade asset as a big juicy expiring.

When's the last time an expiring has been an actual asset?

[RiotPunch]

Tobias and Maxey are expiring deals though after next season. Yeah Bird rights for Tobias. Maxey will be RFA. Not sure I wanna even think about Tobias next contract. Bad enough were stuck in that boat now with Middleton opting in or a new max or walks. Also having Tobias. What we doing with Middleton? Giannis already plays PF. I don't want Middleton at SG.

Tobes would be a great deadline trade asset as a big juicy expiring.

When's the last time an expiring has been an actual asset?

Not recently, but with 2nd apron looming I would think it comes back into style. If not, just having him come off the books after the year is just fine, too.

[JEIS]

Go get Kawhi. Hire Nurse or Pops and call it a day.

[RiotPunch]

If Harden walks, that obviously puts the kibosh on any move for Maxey but it might open up a play for getting value attached to Tucker (inspired by a different variation on the Philly board).

MKE gets: Melton, Tucker
PHI gets: Beasley
LAL gets: Allen, Connaughton

Bucks add another two-way guard with capable ballhandling and enough length to start while bringing back 38 year old Tucker for another run.
Sixers get off of Tucker's contract and receive an expiring Beasley that can play next to Maxey. Melton cost of doing business.
Ham adds two familiar faces to freshen up his wing rotation a bit.

Holiday / Carter
Melton / Beauchamp
Middleton / Crowder
Giannis / Tucker
Lopez / Portis

Don't love it, just spitballing.

[pifhluk23]

Does everyone remember that Middleton shot well below league average efg% in the 2021 run? .438 fg% .343 3p% .504efg% (league average that year was 52.6 and 53.9 sg/sf)

This idea that we can't replace him is crazy, we could have swapped in a league average sg/sf and won that year.

[Xanadu]

Does everyone remember that Middleton shot well below league average efg% in the 2021 run? .438 fg% .343 3p% .504efg% (league average that year was 52.6 and 53.9 sg/sf)

This idea that we can't replace him is crazy, we could have swapped in a league average sg/sf and won that year.

I am sorry but that just isn't true. Also are those percentages playoffs or regular season? Either way it doesn't matter Khris absolutely was huge part of that ring. A league average guy isn't taking game tying or winning shots.

[pifhluk23]

Does everyone remember that Middleton shot well below league average efg% in the 2021 run? .438 fg% .343 3p% .504efg% (league average that year was 52.6 and 53.9 sg/sf)

This idea that we can't replace him is crazy, we could have swapped in a league average sg/sf and won that year.

I am sorry but that just isn't true. Also are those percentages playoffs or regular season? Either way it doesn't matter Khris absolutely was huge part of that ring. A league average guy isn't taking game tying or winning shots.

Those are his 2021 title run playoff stats, numbers don't lie. His best comparisons are Danny Granger or Tobes, excellent 3rd option but not even close to a #2.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/middlkh01.html

[WRau1]

Does everyone remember that Middleton shot well below league average efg% in the 2021 run? .438 fg% .343 3p% .504efg% (league average that year was 52.6 and 53.9 sg/sf)

This idea that we can't replace him is crazy, we could have swapped in a league average sg/sf and won that year.

I am sorry but that just isn't true. Also are those percentages playoffs or regular season? Either way it doesn't matter Khris absolutely was huge part of that ring. A league average guy isn't taking game tying or winning shots.

Those are his 2021 title run playoff stats, numbers don't lie. His best comparisons are Danny Granger or Tobes, excellent 3rd option but not even close to a #2.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/middlkh01.html

Bucks don't get a ring with a "league average sg/sf" in place of Midds, that's a ridiculous statement.

[Prez]

The idea that we “could’ve replaced Mids with a league average SF” and still won the title in 2021 is some of the most laughable revisionist history I’ve seen on this board, just utter nonsense.

[BucksStatsGuy]

Does everyone remember that Middleton shot well below league average efg% in the 2021 run? .438 fg% .343 3p% .504efg% (league average that year was 52.6 and 53.9 sg/sf)

This idea that we can't replace him is crazy, we could have swapped in a league average sg/sf and won that year.

I am sorry but that just isn't true. Also are those percentages playoffs or regular season? Either way it doesn't matter Khris absolutely was huge part of that ring. A league average guy isn't taking game tying or winning shots.

Those are his 2021 title run playoff stats, numbers don't lie. His best comparisons are Danny Granger or Tobes, excellent 3rd option but not even close to a #2.

Especially when it comes to the playoffs, I don't think you can look just completely at the averages. Dude has had 11 30+ point games in the playoffs, with 5 alone during the championship run, including two pretty monster games against BRK, and a huge game where he kept us alive against PHX. Tobias Harris has had one 30 point performance in 55 career playoff games, and Granger has had zero. There aren't many dudes who have a ceiling like Middleton does where he goes supernova. Whether he can continue doing that in the future is another question, but I think it's pretty damn obvious he's not Tobias Harris or Danny Granger.

It's not surprising when Middleton's averages go down in that run when he pretty much had to carry the entire offense for massive stretches at a time due to our horrendous decision making (which we still have).

[buckboy]

The idea that we “could’ve replaced Mids with a league average SF” and still won the title in 2021 is some of the most laughable revisionist history I’ve seen on this board, just utter nonsense.

DavidDunnesque.

[Milbucks96]

Khris Middleton is the only player on the team that can hit a shot that isn’t a layup or spot up three come playoff time. We see shot making become so important every postseason but beg to get rid of our only shot maker. You can’t drive and kick to a championship any more. If one of your main guys can’t hit a pull up three or middy, you’re not going anywhere.

[Fotis St]

We should have used our 14th roster spot testing eu players like Sloukas/Vezenkov/Dorsey who are now qualified at EU Finals. So sad that Bucks team probably has a worse backcourt than modern Greek NT in terms of fit with Giannis who demands shooters.... And this probably is Greek's worst shooting generation.

Jrue/Allen/Carter
Sloukas/Dorsey/Larentzakis

#replace_fire_Horst

[Couch Potato]

Khris Middleton is the only player on the team that can hit a shot that isn’t a layup or spot up three come playoff time. We see shot making become so important every postseason but beg to get rid of our only shot maker. You can’t drive and kick to a championship any more. If one of your main guys can’t hit a pull up three or middy, you’re not going anywhere.

Good play making go for easy shots.