The case for Jordan Hawkins

[DiplomaticMagic]

I would be happy drafting Hawkins. The op makes it seem like its either Ausar or Hawkins. Why not Ausar at #6 and Hawkins at #11??


And like I'ma big fan of what Hawkins can bringto our offense but this worries me

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

Because of this is why Id rather look elsewhere because hes only good at shooting and we wont maximize him on offense.

But like I said I'd still be happy drafting him, and I'll be optimistic if we did.

[Skin]

I would be happy drafting Hawkins. The op makes it seem like its either Ausar or Hawkins. Why not Ausar at #6 and Hawkins at #11??


And like I'ma big fan of what Hawkins can bringto our offense but this worries me

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

Because of this is why Id rather look elsewhere because hes only good at shooting and we wont maximize him on offense.

But like I said I'd still be happy drafting him, and I'll be optimistic if we did.

At the NBA level you can expect the coach to be able to coach to his players' strengths and not fit players to their "systems". We don't have anyone with the capability of Hawkins. So why would Mosely even try it? I don't share the fear here.

[Skin]

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

maybe because we dont have shooters and the ones we do have cant do more than that

Haha, I just replied to my last post without seeing yours here, but yes I agree with you here.

[zaymon]

Good to have another case for this year.
I agree we need shooters, but we need good type of shooters. I am usually against shooting specialists, with wanky defense and no offesne besides 3 pointers.
Hawkins is somewhere in the middle. He is good defender, but not with good frame and not particularly long. His offense outside shooting is very limited. He struggles mightly even when players close out hard. Compare his close 2 at 54% to someone like Bufkin with 68% who is also younger, longer and can operate p&r. Podziemski is very comparable shooter, bigger, much better playmaker, younger.
I have nothing against Hawkins like i had nothing against Nesmith in 2020. I would take him at 36, but not at 11 and god forbid 6.

[RookieStar]

Are we just playing him as a catch and shoot guy?

The reason I have cooled of on Grady is because, we already have a catch and shoot guy in Caleb ( who was a top recruit in college ) yet we don't really utilize him to his full potential. So how will having a shorter catch-and-shoot guy be any different?

[Skybox]

I would be happy drafting Hawkins. The op makes it seem like its either Ausar or Hawkins. Why not Ausar at #6 and Hawkins at #11??


And like I'ma big fan of what Hawkins can bringto our offense but this worries me

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

Because of this is why Id rather look elsewhere because hes only good at shooting and we wont maximize him on offense.

But like I said I'd still be happy drafting him, and I'll be optimistic if we did.

I think better offensive players will lead to better offensive play calling (or a new Coach)...Our offensive ball movement sucks because of personnel, lack of shooters and lack of passing vision in our backcourt. Frontcourt ball movement is pretty rudimentary but all three starters show signs of exceptional passing potential. When they have more experience and more worthwhile targets (like Hawkins), the ball should move to the right guys (I hope).

[Skybox]

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

maybe because we dont have shooters and the ones we do have cant do more than that

Haha, I just replied to my last post without seeing yours here, but yes I agree with you here.

Me too! sorry for the dupes...should have been an "and-1"

[fendilim]

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

Lol really? Mose just needs to recycle the plays for tross

[Petre1978]

Imo catch and shoot guys like Dick, Wallace, Hawkins, Sensebaugh will do wonders to the Magic offense.

Even Lively showed it at the combine.

[KillMonger]

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

Lol really? Mose just needs to recycle the plays for tross

no he won't....doesn't for harris or houstan....wish that wasn't the case but until he shows me different this is what i'll believe

[fendilim]

Like Hawkins but man I would feel like we would be wasting him.... Mose probably won't use him the way he should... I can see him just standing in a corner because that's what we make all our shooters do in our offense......no flares..... No pindowns..... No floppys..... Just stand in a corner

Sent from the phone in my hands

Lol really? Mose just needs to recycle the plays for tross

no he won't....doesn't for harris or houstan....wish that wasn't the case but until he shows me different this is what i'll believe

Those arent their strength though as a shooter.

Caleb is not a movement shooter. Gary post-injury isn’t a movement shooter anymore. Both players are good as stand still shooters.

If Mose did give Caleb plays for Tross, he deserves to be fired. Its like giving Trevor Ariza plays ran for Redick. Lol



This holds true even until today

Early on his college career, Houstan appears to be a "stand in the corner" type rather than a guy you can design half-court sets around. To put this in better context among "just shooter" types at the highest level, he's much more Danny Green (stationary shooter) than JJ Reddick/Patty Mills (run around 10 screens then hit a catch + shoot jumper).

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-friday-screener-caleb-houstans

You can date back to all his 3 point attempts this year, as a movement shooter he missed quite a lot compared as a standstill shooter.

[Skybox]

Lol really? Mose just needs to recycle the plays for tross

no he won't....doesn't for harris or houstan....wish that wasn't the case but until he shows me different this is what i'll believe

Those arent their strength though as a shooter.

Caleb is not a movement shooter. Gary post-injury isn’t a movement shooter anymore. Both players are good as stand still shooters.

If Mose did give Caleb plays for Tross, he deserves to be fired. Its like giving Trevor Ariza plays ran for Redick. Lol



This holds true even until today

Early on his college career, Houstan appears to be a "stand in the corner" type rather than a guy you can design half-court sets around. To put this in better context among "just shooter" types at the highest level, he's much more Danny Green (stationary shooter) than JJ Reddick/Patty Mills (run around 10 screens then hit a catch + shoot jumper).

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-friday-screener-caleb-houstans

You can date back to all his 3 point attempts this year, as a movement shooter he missed quite a lot compared as a standstill shooter.

Oh good post…at first, I thought your reference to TRoss “plays” was a joke. My recollection was that TRoss never took an unguarded shot, like a fighter who needs to get hit to be effective

[jezzerinho]

Houstan was a waste of a pick.

[Skybox]

Houstan was a waste of a pick.

He’s the best 2rp we’ve made (sadly)…I think when we add a legit floor spreader or two to our backcourt and our young star forwards really refine their inside/out ball movement, having an end of bench guy that can walk in and, occasionally, drop 4 open threes in a quarter because others are demanding doubles could be playoff priceless…I could see him routinely going DNP and, on occasion, scoring 15 big points in meaningful moments…like MIA bench vets used to when the Big 3 ran things. Mike Miller, James Jones, etc…whoever had the hot hand that night got to play.

I don’t see him cracking the regular rotation, but good size, good shooting, single-purpose guys are nice to have sitting next to superstar brothers on the end of the bench.

[tiderulz]

Houstan was a waste of a pick.

he is 20 years old. can just run out his 1st contract to see if he can develop more. thats what you do with 2nd picks. take a shot, if they dont work, its not a big loss

[drsd]

Houstan was a waste of a pick.

In the second round, draft a player that projects to have an NBA skill. And then see what comes.

Out of college, Houstan was viewed as having potential to make an NBA three. Maybe he doesn't;t, but the pick wasn't wasted.

Look at the next three players drafted: Christian Koloko, Jaylin Williams, and Max Christie. They are also all scrubs.

I guess Orlando could have drafted Jaden Hardy over Houstan. Or Bryce McGowens.

Heck: undrafted A.J. Green might be better than all of them. And by definition Orlando could have gotten him for literally no asset. Undrafted Julian Champagnie also looks like he will be an NBA-baller.

[jezzerinho]

Houstan was a waste of a pick.

In the second round, draft a player that projects to have an NBA skill. And then see what comes.

Out of college, Houstan was viewed as having potential to make an NBA three. Maybe he doesn't;t, but the pick wasn't wasted.

Look at the next three players drafted: Christian Koloko, Jaylin Williams, and Max Christie. They are also all scrubs.

I guess Orlando could have drafted Jaden Hardy over Houstan. Or Bryce McGowens.

Heck: undrafted A.J. Green might be better than all of them. And by definition Orlando could have gotten him for literally no asset. Undrafted Julian Champagnie also looks like he will be an NBA-baller.

If u asked OKC or Toronto if they'd rather have their player or Houstan, I think we can guess their answer. Not to mention Dallas with Hardy.

Houstan in college looked like a heavy-footed, unathletic wing with a very streaky shooting record and that's what he's proven to be.

[drsd]

If u asked OKC or Toronto if they'd rather have their player or Houstan, I think we can guess their answer. Not to mention Dallas with Hardy.

Houstan in college looked like a heavy-footed, unathletic wing with a very streaky shooting record and that's what he's proven to be.

SRP Players drafted in a slot once owned by Orlando.

2021:
Jason Preston = scrub

2020:
Vernon Carey Jr. = scrub
Jordan Nwora = good rotation player
Yam Madar = missing
Paul Reed = scrub

2019:
Carsen Edwards = scrub
Cody Martin = deep bench guy
Ignas Brazdeikis = out of league
Jaylen Hands = missing

The second-round is full of players that won't make the NBA for a reason. There are only ~450 jobs to be had.


As to your point about Christian Koloko and Jaylin Williams, will either be in the league in 3 years? I cannot see a difference between Houstan and them for career progression.


As to Jaden Hardy, he does look to be NBA competent.


But what one is left with in this discussion is that there is not a single player drafted after Houstan that are "Wow, this guy should have been a lock for Orlando".

My central point: I am happy the Magic took a chance on Houstan over the predictable "Cash Considerations" draft we have all come to expect.

[KillMonger]

Lol really? Mose just needs to recycle the plays for tross

no he won't....doesn't for harris or houstan....wish that wasn't the case but until he shows me different this is what i'll believe

Those arent their strength though as a shooter.

Caleb is not a movement shooter. Gary post-injury isn’t a movement shooter anymore. Both players are good as stand still shooters.

If Mose did give Caleb plays for Tross, he deserves to be fired. Its like giving Trevor Ariza plays ran for Redick. Lol



This holds true even until today

Early on his college career, Houstan appears to be a "stand in the corner" type rather than a guy you can design half-court sets around. To put this in better context among "just shooter" types at the highest level, he's much more Danny Green (stationary shooter) than JJ Reddick/Patty Mills (run around 10 screens then hit a catch + shoot jumper).

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-friday-screener-caleb-houstans

You can date back to all his 3 point attempts this year, as a movement shooter he missed quite a lot compared as a standstill shooter.

maybe not to the degree of a hawkins but from the film i watched from montverde and michigan caleb was used in some basic movement sets....however the crux of my argument isn't really whether they can or not, it's the way mose offense is run....too basic at times and shooters are primarily used as just a floor spacer rather than an actual threat.....flares, floppys and pindowns are sets that are used at the high school level, it's basic man.....really think about how many of those kind of plays have we run for our shooters? i would say no where near enough, it's just not part of our offense....i wish i could give coach the benefit of the doubt but he's kind of stubborn to changes unless forced to change....we'll see how it goes

[fendilim]

no he won't....doesn't for harris or houstan....wish that wasn't the case but until he shows me different this is what i'll believe

Those arent their strength though as a shooter.

Caleb is not a movement shooter. Gary post-injury isn’t a movement shooter anymore. Both players are good as stand still shooters.

If Mose did give Caleb plays for Tross, he deserves to be fired. Its like giving Trevor Ariza plays ran for Redick. Lol



This holds true even until today

Early on his college career, Houstan appears to be a "stand in the corner" type rather than a guy you can design half-court sets around. To put this in better context among "just shooter" types at the highest level, he's much more Danny Green (stationary shooter) than JJ Reddick/Patty Mills (run around 10 screens then hit a catch + shoot jumper).

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/the-friday-screener-caleb-houstans

You can date back to all his 3 point attempts this year, as a movement shooter he missed quite a lot compared as a standstill shooter.

maybe not to the degree of a hawkins but from the film i watched from montverde and michigan caleb was used in some basic movement sets....however the crux of my argument isn't really whether they can or not, it's the way mose offense is run....too basic at times and shooters are primarily used as just a floor spacer rather than an actual threat.....flares, floppys and pindowns are sets that are used at the high school level, it's basic man.....really think about how many of those kind of plays have we run for our shooters? i would say no where near enough, it's just not part of our offense....i wish i could give coach the benefit of the doubt but he's kind of stubborn to changes unless forced to change....we'll see how it goes

True. But how many of those kind of shooters have we had since mose came? Only tross is the decent movement shooter we’ve had since maybe Redick.



A pre-draft scouting report on Houstan

Houstan made 40% of his catch-and-shoot 3-pointers from a spot-up situation.

Our scouting report features some movement shooting upside, but he made less than 25% of his shots off screens.
https://theboxandone.substack.com/p/caleb-houstan-2022-nba-draft-scouting