2022-23 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

OhayoKD · Post #441 » by **OhayoKD** » Wed May 17, 2023 11:17 pm

dontcalltimeout wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:RAPTOR's the one major advanced stat that's been updating throughout the playoffs and combining RS + PS. Thought the results were pretty interesting:

1. Jokic +13.5
2. Davis +7.8
2. Doncic +7.8
2. Embiid +7.8
2. Lillard +7.8
6. Kawhi +6.8
7. Butler +6.6

There's also the Thinking Basketball playoff-only BPM

1. Jokic +9.9
2. Booker +7.2
3. Butler +6.5
4. Tatum +5.9
5. Horford +5.5
6. Davis +5.5
7. Edwards +4.9
8. Murray +4.8
9. Harden +4.7
10. James +4.6

keep in mind that will be skewed towards offense and steal-accumulation(guards)

iggymcfrack · Post #442 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu May 18, 2023 9:28 am

I usually try not to overreact to small samples in the postseason, but I honestly feel like this is my top 5:

1. Joker
2. Jimmy
3. Jayson
4. AD
5. Joel

I would be way more likely to write Jimmy’s playoffs off as a fluke if it were the first time, but he’s literally done this 3 of the last 4 years. He’s a **** assassin in the playoffs.

eminence · Post #443 » by **eminence** » Sun May 21, 2023 3:22 am

ardee wrote:
eminence wrote:Current (semi realistic) ranges for guys on my potential ballot.

Jokic 1-3
Tatum 1-4
Butler 1-off
AD 1-off
LeBron 1-off
Embiid 3-off
Curry 4-off

Feels a bit odd to not be considering Giannis, but despite the #1 seed I wasn't particularly impressed by his RS (had him in the #5 range, and then obviously a big dud in the playoffs - injury influenced). Probably next in line for consideration. Shoutout to the RS guard trio of Luka/SGA/Dame.

What would it take for LeBron to finish one? 2016-esque CF and Finals performances?

Well, let's call that one unlikely at this point. Looking more like an off the ballot finish for LeBron here.

Lou Fan · Post #444 » by **Lou Fan** » Sun May 21, 2023 7:02 pm

Anyone else think Booker is deserving of serious consideration. If they had won that series and he played at the exact same level I think almost everyone would have him top 5 right now.

Post #445 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun May 21, 2023 7:47 pm

Lou Fan wrote:Anyone else think Booker is deserving of serious consideration. If they had won that series and he played at the exact same level I think almost everyone would have him top 5 right now.

I'll be considering him for both my POY & OPOY ballots. I feel like he's a stronger OPOY candidate than POY candidate, though his defense has certainly improved.

ardee · Post #446 » by **ardee** » Sun May 21, 2023 10:07 pm

eminence wrote:
ardee wrote:
eminence wrote:Current (semi realistic) ranges for guys on my potential ballot.

Jokic 1-3
Tatum 1-4
Butler 1-off
AD 1-off
LeBron 1-off
Embiid 3-off
Curry 4-off

Feels a bit odd to not be considering Giannis, but despite the #1 seed I wasn't particularly impressed by his RS (had him in the #5 range, and then obviously a big dud in the playoffs - injury influenced). Probably next in line for consideration. Shoutout to the RS guard trio of Luka/SGA/Dame.

What would it take for LeBron to finish one? 2016-esque CF and Finals performances?

Well, let's call that one unlikely at this point. Looking more like an off the ballot finish for LeBron here.

I think Davis should still make it though?

ardee · Post #447 » by **ardee** » Sun May 21, 2023 10:08 pm

Right now it's looking like:

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Davis
5. Embiid or Curry

OhayoKD · Post #448 » by **OhayoKD** » Sun May 21, 2023 10:48 pm

ardee wrote:Right now it's looking like:

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Davis
5. Embiid or Curry

Explain embid/curry over booker

eminence · Post #449 » by **eminence** » Sun May 21, 2023 11:06 pm

ardee wrote:
eminence wrote:
ardee wrote:
What would it take for LeBron to finish one? 2016-esque CF and Finals performances?

Well, let's call that one unlikely at this point. Looking more like an off the ballot finish for LeBron here.

I think Davis should still make it though?

More likely for sure, he's in a 4-6 debate with Embiid/Curry to me (assuming Denver closes out in 6 or fewer games). Theoretically with a Boston comeback Butler could drop into that debate as well, though I think Jimmy would win it. Jokic has locked top two, and Tatum virtually top 3.

HeartBreakKid · Post #450 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun May 21, 2023 11:45 pm

I'm not sure if James or Davis played enough games to make my ballot.

eminence · Post #451 » by **eminence** » Sun May 21, 2023 11:51 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I'm not sure if James or Davis played enough games to make my ballot.

Is there anyone other than Jokic/Butler/Tatum/Embiid/Curry you'll be considering?

HeartBreakKid · Post #452 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun May 21, 2023 11:53 pm

eminence wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I'm not sure if James or Davis played enough games to make my ballot.

Is there anyone other than Jokic/Butler/Tatum/Embiid/Curry you'll be considering?

Giannis and Luka.

I meant regular season games.

eminence · Post #453 » by **eminence** » Sun May 21, 2023 11:56 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
eminence wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I'm not sure if James or Davis played enough games to make my ballot.

Is there anyone other than Jokic/Butler/Tatum/Embiid/Curry you'll be considering?

Giannis and Luka.

I meant regular season games.

Makes sense, any strong thoughts on Luka vs SGA (or maybe Dame, but I see how you could rule him out with games).

I kind of grouped those 3 guards together mentally as my 'RS' HMs, that I'd only seriously consider if the playoff field collapsed, which I don't feel it has, so I haven't seriously thought about one vs the other for the season.

HeartBreakKid · Post #454 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:00 am

eminence wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
eminence wrote:
Is there anyone other than Jokic/Butler/Tatum/Embiid/Curry you'll be considering?

Giannis and Luka.

I meant regular season games.

Makes sense, any strong thoughts on Luka vs SGA (or maybe Dame, but I see how you could rule him out with games).

I kind of grouped those 3 guards together mentally as my 'RS' HMs, that I'd only seriously consider if the playoff field collapsed, which I don't feel it has, so I haven't seriously thought about one vs the other for the season.

SGA is great. He's worth a consideration also, though I suppose he loses out due to seniority. Subconsciously,I know how Giannis and Luka's styles roughly games stack up in the playoffs where SGA doesn't get that benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, without looking at any advance stats his argument is similar to Luka's.

Giannis is a comfortable 4th for me.

Post #455 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:36 am

OhayoKD wrote:
ardee wrote:Right now it's looking like:

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Davis
5. Embiid or Curry

Explain embid/curry over booker

Not my post but:

I think Embiid clearly had the advantage over Booker in the regular season. I doubt I'll find Booker's playoff performance to be enough to overcome that.

I'll continue to think about Booker vs Curry, but as things stand I'd lean Booker.

jalengreen · Post #456 » by **jalengreen** » Mon May 22, 2023 2:28 am

Not seeing Booker, his regular season wasn't on the same level as these other guys to me. Right now I'm thinking Jokic/Butler/Tatum/Embiid/Davis (not in order) on my ballot. Among "honorable mentions" probably LeBron > Curry > Giannis > Booker.

ardee · Post #457 » by **ardee** » Mon May 22, 2023 4:56 am

This is turning out to be a very weak RPOY season outside of Jokic, which is bizarre because the league seemed unbelievably loaded early in the season.

Tatum at 3rd is just sooo underwhelming especially after what just happened.

Post #458 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon May 22, 2023 2:04 pm

ardee wrote:This is turning out to be a very weak RPOY season outside of Jokic, which is bizarre because the league seemed unbelievably loaded early in the season.

Tatum at 3rd is just sooo underwhelming especially after what just happened.

I have a similar feeling.

I do think the talent in the league is amazing.
I also think the upsets are messing with the narratives we had in place.

Even worse than that is the way some of the favorites are going out. All 3 of the top seeds in the East (who all would have had HCA against anyone in the West) have gone out ugly and feel like they have to make changes before next year.

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Post #459 » by **Texas Chuck** » Mon May 22, 2023 4:02 pm

so 10 days ago Tatum has a game 7 for the ages. This board loses their mind. Now they lose to a team with the best culture, the best coach, a known killer in Butler with a terrific sidekick in Bam and suddenly he's mid. Just like 10 days ago we had AD teh best player in the world and a guy the lakers wouldn't swap for Giannis because of a handful of good games. But the Lakers are about to get swept so now he sucks....

I get the huge importance of conference final games, but man are we way too reactionary to small sample size theater. Especially when clearly the better teams are winning these series.

Maybe we need to focus a lot less on narrative....

Post #460 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon May 22, 2023 4:55 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:so 10 days ago Tatum has a game 7 for the ages. This board loses their mind. Now they lose to a team with the best culture, the best coach, a known killer in Butler with a terrific sidekick in Bam and suddenly he's mid. Just like 10 days ago we had AD teh best player in the world and a guy the lakers wouldn't swap for Giannis because of a handful of good games. But the Lakers are about to get swept so now he sucks....

I get the huge importance of conference final games, but man are we way too reactionary to small sample size theater. Especially when clearly the better teams are winning these series.

Maybe we need to focus a lot less on narrative....

Important points. I think before we do actual votes it will be important to take a step back to try to escape being prisoners of the moment.