Marcus Smart's trade value

[Andrew McCeltic]

I want to send Brogdon to New Orleans for Dyson Daniels

[Larry_Russell]

#4 and Eason for Smart and a pick?

[hugepatsfan]

Y'all are so egregiously overrating Smart's trade value that it isn't even funny. Borderline delusional in here.

Heck, half of the reason most of you are open to discussing trading him is because you believe Derrick White replicates what he does. So probably a fair starting point would be what White was just traded for a year and a half ago. Nothing close to the offers listed in here.

[165bows]

Y'all are so egregiously overrating Smart's trade value that it isn't even funny. Borderline delusional in here.

Heck, half of the reason most of you are open to discussing trading him is because you believe Derrick White replicates what he does. So probably a fair starting point would be what White was just traded for a year and a half ago. Nothing close to the offers listed in here.

They are basically as bad in the other direction as your DFS trade so there's that.

[hugepatsfan]

Y'all are so egregiously overrating Smart's trade value that it isn't even funny. Borderline delusional in here.

Heck, half of the reason most of you are open to discussing trading him is because you believe Derrick White replicates what he does. So probably a fair starting point would be what White was just traded for a year and a half ago. Nothing close to the offers listed in here.

They are basically as bad in the other direction as your DFS trade so there's that.

Hopefully he's more valuable than that if we do trade him. But that seems to be fair value based on recent trades of similar players (i.e. White) and is considered fair on the main board.

[165bows]

Y'all are so egregiously overrating Smart's trade value that it isn't even funny. Borderline delusional in here.

Heck, half of the reason most of you are open to discussing trading him is because you believe Derrick White replicates what he does. So probably a fair starting point would be what White was just traded for a year and a half ago. Nothing close to the offers listed in here.

They are basically as bad in the other direction as your DFS trade so there's that.

Hopefully he's more valuable than that if we do trade him. But that seems to be fair value based on recent trades of similar players (i.e. White) and is considered fair on the main board.

Yeah you are being too influenced by a couple people there. DFS is a career 10.7/5.9/1.8 per 36 minutes guy with below average shooting efficiencies across the board. Smart's biggest drawback is his scoring limitations which are even worse with DFS while him being worse at every other facet of the game.

I'm not sure how he can be considered a different category of player than Grant Williams and that's a guy that lost his spot on this team.

IMO this team desperately need some creation and scoring in the front court and this guy is the opposite.

This part is speculation from me but I think both the White and Brogdon trades were a little light on value because they were rebuilding teams who chose to send their team-guy vets to places they wanted to play.

[Celts17Pride]

#4 and Eason for Smart and a pick?

Houston hangs up the phone quickly and spends the next 15 minutes rolling on the floor laughing uncontrollably.

[watsonthedragon]

#4 and Eason for Smart and a pick?

Sure, if we can get the #5 pick to include

[hugepatsfan]

They are basically as bad in the other direction as your DFS trade so there's that.

Hopefully he's more valuable than that if we do trade him. But that seems to be fair value based on recent trades of similar players (i.e. White) and is considered fair on the main board.

Yeah you are being too influenced by a couple people there. DFS is a career 10.7/5.9/1.8 per 36 minutes guy with below average shooting efficiencies across the board. Smart's biggest drawback is his scoring limitations which are even worse with DFS while him being worse at every other facet of the game.

I'm not sure how he can be considered a different category of player than Grant Williams and that's a guy that lost his spot on this team.

IMO this team desperately need some creation and scoring in the front court and this guy is the opposite.

This part is speculation from me but I think both the White and Brogdon trades were a little light on value because they were rebuilding teams who chose to send their team-guy vets to places they wanted to play.

Smart is a career 12.7/5.6/4.2 per 36 minute guy with below average shooting efficiencies.

But to be honest, not sure there's much value in career numbers for either guy. Both started out as worse shooters than they are. DFS over the last 4 years has a 45%/38% shooting splits. He's become a very effective 3&D player. He's absolutely a limited offensive player. You don't want him doing any shot creation. He's a defensive forward who can handle some variety of assignments and someone who stands at the 3 point line and hits them at a solid clip.

Smart is a ball handling PG. He had a couple years at 36% and then 35% from 3, but the last 3 years it's been 33%. Career 32%. So that's realistically what you expect. He is not an effective off ball shooter. Not really a cutter either because he doesn't finish particularly well inside (though better in recent years). Decently effective post up player. He's made himself into a quality passer and good floor general, but lacks the scoring chops to really be a primary ball handler vs great defense. Still a great defender and exceptionally versatile for a guard.

Smart is absolutely capable of more than DFS, but there's a serious question as to whether you actually want him doing all that. He's a role player level player who is best utilized in an on ball role you typically prefer to have a star player play. DFS on the other hand is limited, but a tailor made fit for any roster really in a 30ish minute role.

Most contenders aren't going to look at Smart as having a game that they really want to add to their group. Most rebuilding teams aren't going to view him as a guy worth giving up any real piece of their asset hoards for. His only appeal on the trade market is going to be that middle ground of teams. Limited market = reduced return. That's how I see it.

[165bows]

Hopefully he's more valuable than that if we do trade him. But that seems to be fair value based on recent trades of similar players (i.e. White) and is considered fair on the main board.

Yeah you are being too influenced by a couple people there. DFS is a career 10.7/5.9/1.8 per 36 minutes guy with below average shooting efficiencies across the board. Smart's biggest drawback is his scoring limitations which are even worse with DFS while him being worse at every other facet of the game.

I'm not sure how he can be considered a different category of player than Grant Williams and that's a guy that lost his spot on this team.

IMO this team desperately need some creation and scoring in the front court and this guy is the opposite.

This part is speculation from me but I think both the White and Brogdon trades were a little light on value because they were rebuilding teams who chose to send their team-guy vets to places they wanted to play.

Smart is a career 12.7/5.6/4.2 per 36 minute guy with below average shooting efficiencies.

But to be honest, not sure there's much value in career numbers for either guy. Both started out as worse shooters than they are. DFS over the last 4 years has a 45%/38% shooting splits. He's become a very effective 3&D player. He's absolutely a limited offensive player. You don't want him doing any shot creation. He's a defensive forward who can handle some variety of assignments and someone who stands at the 3 point line and hits them at a solid clip.

Smart is a ball handling PG. He had a couple years at 36% and then 35% from 3, but the last 3 years it's been 33%. Career 32%. So that's realistically what you expect. He is not an effective off ball shooter. Not really a cutter either because he doesn't finish particularly well inside (though better in recent years). Decently effective post up player. He's made himself into a quality passer and good floor general, but lacks the scoring chops to really be a primary ball handler vs great defense. Still a great defender and exceptionally versatile for a guard.

Smart is absolutely capable of more than DFS, but there's a serious question as to whether you actually want him doing all that. He's a role player level player who is best utilized in an on ball role you typically prefer to have a star player play. DFS on the other hand is limited, but a tailor made fit for any roster really in a 30ish minute role.

Most contenders aren't going to look at Smart as having a game that they really want to add to their group. Most rebuilding teams aren't going to view him as a guy worth giving up any real piece of their asset hoards for. His only appeal on the trade market is going to be that middle ground of teams. Limited market = reduced return. That's how I see it.

This is a total fallacy that a 3/D 4 is a perfect fit for any team.

Boston has an absolute boatload of high efficiency low volume scoring defensive players, among whom DFS would be lucky to be among the top handful. He's also a primary 3 point shooting specialist who's career 3PT% barely eclipses Marcus Smart's.

The last thing Boston needs is more dudes that can't handle the ball or create a shot for themselves or others when their season has cratered in flames twice in a row due to their offense's inability to do just that.

I mean, a rationale of moving Smart being addition by subtraction would have more merit. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that but it's a more tenable argument.

[captain green]

I went with picks 11 through 20 and trending downward imo. Would smart, can't will, pp, and filler plus picks work for dame time?

[big-shot-ROB]

The average return of any pick 10+ is probably worse than Smart so I'm pretty comfortable saying his value is 8th-10th. People love to overrate draft picks

[RodyTur10]

The average return of any pick 10+ is probably worse than Smart so I'm pretty comfortable saying his value is 8th-10th. People love to overrate draft picks

It really depends of the state a team is in. A team that's in full rebuild will value draft picks a lot more.
A team that's in the second phase may find it attractive to get an establised player who can set a culture.
And a team that's contending will definitely value a proven veteran a lot more.

The teams that are in the lottery I can see the following teams being interested:

Orlando #6 and #11. I expect they'd negotiate to give up #11 depending on the player that goes out.

Indiana #7, unsure if they'd be interested, that team has Haliburton + Hield + Turner and a lot of young guys.
A defensive anchor on a longterm contract could be appetizing for them.

Washington #8, Beal and Porzingis are their stars without much success, but no high potential young talent, so I'd definitely prefer Smart if I were them.

Dallas #10, boy can they use some defense on that team, this is a deal to be made if Boston wanted to.

OKC #12, Smart always turns his game up in OKC, would be natural for him to go there. Seems like OKC is not actively looking to add veterans to its roster yet, which is a bit of a shame for SGA's career at this point.

Toronto #13, this is a team that's really at a crossroads, but I think they'd do this. I don't think Boston will trade Smart to a rival.

New Orleans #14, they're really urging for success. They would definitely make this pick available for Smart, but poor value for Boston depending on the incoming salary.

[BostonCouchGM]

This is a pretty weak draft class with several teams having multiple picks. I'm sure plenty of them would happily send us a mid-late 1st, conditional future first and either a role player or young guy that hasn't developed yet. Jazz, Pacers, Nets, Blazers, Rockets and Hornets would likely be willing. It makes too much sense not to happen but sadly I don't think it will. Zero chance he'd fetch a lottery pick

[Triple7]

Smart is valuable for this team. I love his heart and dedicatation. I wanted him in the draft as well like Ainge did. He has always been one of my favourite players on the Celtics roster.

But right now Smart is being misunderstood and misused just because our GM keeps failing. We are desperately in need of a pure ballhandler, a real PG, someone who can takeover the game and distribute. A type of player who can break the zone. Which we still can't since Kyrie left.

Smart is non of the above. He is more a defensive minded guard, who can knock down the spot up 3. He is also very effective when he posts up in the paint, but it looks like we don't have this play as one of our main ones in our playbook. It's Smart doing smart things when needed.

I'm all in for moving parts but we have to give Smart a chance next to a real PG. Moving him makes no difference. I'll only move him when we get offered a huge bag or else let him stay. He is one of the few player who can light up a fire under his teammates when it's needed. Dude has also never been a salary problem during contract negotiations. He has a clever agent who understands his position and market situation.

The knock on him that he sometimes plays hero ball is misunderstood as well. I get angry at him as well when he does make boneheaded plays. But most of the time it is more because his teammates, the so called starplayers, never show up when it's needed. It's these kind of moments when he takes matters into his own hands and sometimes it looks very ugly.

If you put smart next to a real pg, then we are likely have the smallest back court in the league. Plus smart will be playing the role of a “shooting” guard, which he is really awful at. Don’t care about the stats. He just can’t shoot when it counts. Teams also doesn’t care if he shoots and makes them. They would rather clog up JT and dare smart to shoot. Trade his ass while he still have value. Next season, his play will continue to go downhill, same as his defense.

[shackles10]

Smart is fine as our pg. The pg's in the Finals are Jamal Murray who is a great player/scorer, but not a great playmaker/traditional pg and Gabe Vincent who I can't say anything nice about but he just torched us so I'll leave him alone. The difference is Jokic for Denver and how the Heat play as a team with movement compared to us. Smart is a good playmaker, albeit not great, and is still one of the best backcourt defenders in the league with his versatility. We couldn't switch like we do, Rob becomes less effective as a result, or we live with our new pg getting switched into the post and eaten alive. A new ball dominant pg would just make JT and JB stand around more if nothing else in the offensive philosophy changes.

I'm not saying he's the best pg in the league and there's no upgrade to be made, but it's too far down the list of concerns for me to pursue it realistically.

[Celts17Pride]

Smart is fine as our pg. The pg's in the Finals are Jamal Murray who is a great player/scorer, but not a great playmaker/traditional pg and Gabe Vincent who I can't say anything nice about but he just torched us so I'll leave him alone. The difference is Jokic for Denver and how the Heat play as a team with movement compared to us. Smart is a good playmaker, albeit not great, and is still one of the best backcourt defenders in the league with his versatility. We couldn't switch like we do, Rob becomes less effective as a result, or we live with our new pg getting switched into the post and eaten alive. A new ball dominant pg would just make JT and JB stand around more if nothing else in the offensive philosophy changes.

I'm not saying he's the best pg in the league and there's no upgrade to be made, but it's too far down the list of concerns for me to pursue it realistically.

Respectfully disagree. Smart has and will always be the "prove it to me" player. Teams pay attention to Tatum/Brown and then tell Smart and Horford to "prove it to me". Marcus Smart is a career 39% shooter and 32% three point shooter. Smart is better suited coming off the bench as a 6th man type of player.

If the Celtics had a point guard with some playmaking ability but was a knock down shooter it would open everything up on offense in my opinion. I will say I agree with you that I don't know who that player is right now.

Big reason why many posters in this forum wanted Brogdon to close games. (Personally I'm not a Brogdon fan)

[shackles10]

Smart is fine as our pg. The pg's in the Finals are Jamal Murray who is a great player/scorer, but not a great playmaker/traditional pg and Gabe Vincent who I can't say anything nice about but he just torched us so I'll leave him alone. The difference is Jokic for Denver and how the Heat play as a team with movement compared to us. Smart is a good playmaker, albeit not great, and is still one of the best backcourt defenders in the league with his versatility. We couldn't switch like we do, Rob becomes less effective as a result, or we live with our new pg getting switched into the post and eaten alive. A new ball dominant pg would just make JT and JB stand around more if nothing else in the offensive philosophy changes.

I'm not saying he's the best pg in the league and there's no upgrade to be made, but it's too far down the list of concerns for me to pursue it realistically.

Respectfully disagree. Smart has and will always be the "prove it to me" player. Teams pay attention to Tatum/Brown and then tell Smart and Horford to "prove it to me". Marcus Smart is a career 39% shooter and 32% three point shooter. Smart is better suited coming off the bench as a 6th man type of player.

If the Celtics had a point guard with some playmaking ability but was a knock down shooter it would open everything up on offense in my opinion. I will say I agree with you that I don't know who that player is right now.

Big reason why many posters in this forum wanted Brogdon to close games. (Personally I'm not a Brogdon fan)

I get what you're saying, and depending on team fit I could see the argument for Brogdon as a better player and for some teams a much better player than Smart. For this team though, Brogdon's defense was so bad and he stopped the ball as much as JB. A much better shooter than Smart, but he's not going to play the same role as Smart with just better finishing so doesn't impact things as much as if Smart just improved his shooting to Brogdon levels. In fairness to Smart too I felt like our offense was at its best in the last two seasons when he called out the team and especially the Jays for stopping the ball and not letting him be the point guard (excluding the hot start to this season as it had nothing to do with anyone's play making and prime John Stockton even wouldn't have made our ridiculously hot shooting any hotter or sustainable).

For me it's still a question of priority on the upgrades for next season whether they're internal or with new players. A change from Smart would still leave us with the same coaching philosophy, JT/JB fit, and player movement issues that plagued us this post-season and I feel like those are more impactful.

[FlyBono]

Call Phoenix

Smart RWilliams for Ayton

Get a big who can score and shoot unlike the one dimensional Williams

Smart or Brown one has to go!

[Captain_Caveman]

Call Phoenix

Smart RWilliams for Ayton

Get a big who can score and shoot unlike the one dimensional Williams

Smart or Brown one has to go!

Trade two All-Defensive gamers on good contracts for an overpaid lumbering slouch that hardly even tries in big games. I'm good on that.