Trade Thread Tread pt.2 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[fallguy]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

I agree with Gasper here, I'd rather it be Smart rather than Brogdon, in terms of Tatum being forced to become the defacto
leader of the team, but one of them has to go...

7. Stevens irritated some with his tone in his end-of-season press conference. He is not pessimistic or reactive by nature. He is circumspect and calm. It's part of his Midwestern makeup. The only statement Stevens made that I take umbrage with was:

“We were 48 minutes away from doing our pregame shootaround press conference today, right, in the Finals. So there was a lot that went right, and we can't lose sight of that."

The Celtics were a lot closer to being eliminated in six games than they were to winning in seven. They were 0.1 away from being ousted in six. That reality should guide the offseason.

The “48 minutes away" remark sounds a bit like former Red Sox general manager Dan Duquette's infamous “more days in first place" line.

Stevens doesn't need to blow things up, but some substantive change is needed — one of Smart or Malcolm Brogdon has to go — for the Celtics to turn their championship potential into a championship parade.



Some leftover thoughts on the Celtics' playoff fizzle
Gasper, Christopher L.  Boston Globe; Boston, Mass. [Boston, Mass]. 07 June 2023: C.1.

[Andrew McCeltic]

These are just my arbitrary numbers, but the guys I think warrant a supermax are normally either top 10, or very likely to grow into top 10 players. For a regular 30 % max, that number is around top 30, or all star caliber player. JB falls in between by most accounts.

I think what likely happens is JB gets his supermax, but with 2-3% tied to unlikely incentives. Top 5 mvp, banner, all defensive 1st team, etc.

That will put him at 32-33% guaranteed which is fair value imo.

Even with Brown and Tatum on supermax deals, its roughly 18 mil combined above a 30% max. We will have to give up a luxury like Brogdon at 22 mil and replace him with a guy like Pritchard at 4 mil, but the math still works.

JB alone basically means giving up a guy like Gallo, Theis or TT.

Is the supermax a contract slot or is it a ceiling above the normal max? Can you just ink him to an in-between number?

[djFan71]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

His contract expires after 2 years - just when Tatum's extension kicks in. What you do then, I dunno, but he'd be 34 (35 in July) in 2025 and you would probably resign, but assumedly not at that level.

[Hal14]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

Agreed.

Currently, there's 9 players on a supermax, listed here..Lillard is 1 of them:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/listing-9-nba-players-currently-supermax-contracts

Ideally, if we trade JB, it'd be for a star that isn't on a supermax and won't be eligible for one. Someone like Siakam or Trae..

[Curmudgeon]

I agree with Gasper here, I'd rather it be Smart rather than Brogdon

Gasper is an idiot and certified Smart hater. He's been beating that drum for years.

In the playoffs, Smart shot 36% from beyond the arc, slightly above the league average. Brogdon shot 16% and can't defend a chair.
Brown, Tatum and Horford were also awful from beyond the arc. Aside from Smart, the only two guys who were respectable were White and GWill.

[Hal14]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

His contract expires after 2 years - just when Tatum's extension kicks in. What you do then, I dunno, but he'd be 34 (35 in July) in 2025 and you would probably resign, but assumedly not at that level.

Dame signed an extension - he's signed through the 2026-2027 season, with the last year on that deal being a player option - which he would obviously exercise since he'd make $63 million if he exercises it and there's no way in hell any team would pay him more than that at age 36 if he declines the option.

https://www.nba.com/news/damian-lillard-extension-trail-blazers

[rd26]

These are just my arbitrary numbers, but the guys I think warrant a supermax are normally either top 10, or very likely to grow into top 10 players. For a regular 30 % max, that number is around top 30, or all star caliber player. JB falls in between by most accounts.

I think what likely happens is JB gets his supermax, but with 2-3% tied to unlikely incentives. Top 5 mvp, banner, all defensive 1st team, etc.

That will put him at 32-33% guaranteed which is fair value imo.

Even with Brown and Tatum on supermax deals, its roughly 18 mil combined above a 30% max. We will have to give up a luxury like Brogdon at 22 mil and replace him with a guy like Pritchard at 4 mil, but the math still works.

JB alone basically means giving up a guy like Gallo, Theis or TT.

Is the supermax a contract slot or is it a ceiling above the normal max? Can you just ink him to an in-between number?

I'm assuming it is the max we could offer, and not required, bit I could certainly be wrong

[djFan71]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

His contract expires after 2 years - just when Tatum's extension kicks in. What you do then, I dunno, but he'd be 34 (35 in July) in 2025 and you would probably resign, but assumedly not at that level.

Dame signed an extension - he's signed through the 2026-2027 season, with the last year on that deal being a player option - which he would obviously exercise since he'd make $63 million if he exercises it and there's no way in hell any team would pay him more than that at age 36 if he declines the option.

https://www.nba.com/news/damian-lillard-extension-trail-blazers

Ah, thanks. Dang, didn't scroll far enough on Spotrac to see that part.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

I agree with Gasper here, I'd rather it be Smart rather than Brogdon

Gasper is an idiot and certified Smart hater. He's been beating that drum for years.

In the playoffs, Smart shot 36% from beyond the arc, slightly above the league average. Brogdon shot 16% and can't defend a chair.
Brown, Tatum and Horford were also awful from beyond the arc. Aside from Smart, the only two guys who were respectable were White and GWill.

Brogdon's stats are a bit skewed from the injury. He was good against Atlanta and Philly. I guess Smart shot well
except for missing those game winning shots and the turnovers in clutch time.

But, the main thing about dealing Smart is to change the culture, acknowledge you can't win with Marcus as your
3rd Star, elevate White to starting PG and acquire some type of quality Big.

[Celts17Pride]

Lillard picked two teams on that list ahead of Boston.

“Miami, obviously,” Lillard replied with a laugh. “Bam is my dog for real but Miami is an obvious one. Brooklyn is another obvious one because Mikal Bridges is my dog too.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/06/damian-lillard-picks-heat-nets-over-celtics-in-hypothetical-trade-scenario.html

I think chances are pretty good that Lillard gets moved this off-season.

[fallguy]

Lillard picked two teams on that list ahead of Boston.

“Miami, obviously,” Lillard replied with a laugh. “Bam is my dog for real but Miami is an obvious one. Brooklyn is another obvious one because Mikal Bridges is my dog too.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/06/damian-lillard-picks-heat-nets-over-celtics-in-hypothetical-trade-scenario.html

I think chances are pretty good that Lillard gets moved this off-season.

The new CBA probably puts a chill on Dame's market so I wouldn't be shocked to see him in Miami. He makes sense for fewer teams than he did before the new CBA.

[ddb]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

Yeah but at least you have an actual max worthy player in Dame. Jaylen IS NOT a max worthy player

[EWINGtheory]

Let the fun begin:

Read on Twitter

Damian Lillard says Miami is ‘obviously’ his first choice over Boston, New York, and Brooklyn in a hypothetical trade: “Bam is my dawg”

I think it's extremely likely that Dame Lillard will be wearing a Miami Heat uniform next year. One is because it's were he wants to go and secondly because I don't think Portland is going to get what it wants from #3, Simons, Sharpe etc.

People need to stop with the Jaylen Brown for Lillard talk. Jaylen Brown won't resign in Portland especially if Lillard is gone. The potential trade is DOA.

While I agree that dame will not be a Celtic that trade is not doa. It’s very simple you route jaylen to a third team who sends the rebuilding assets to Portland. Hell houston would likely give Boston #4 plus that could be sent directly to Portland.

It’s very simple in that hypothetical

[EWINGtheory]

One problem with Dame is, like Jaylen, he eviscerates our cap once Tatum signs his supermax.

Really with this new CBA you can have one guy on a normal max and one guy on a supermax. But you can't sustain two guys on a supermax.

Yeah but at least you have an actual max worthy player in Dame. Jaylen IS NOT a max worthy player

And it increases your odds at a ring in the immediate. If you are gonna pay that $ you want to maximize your shot at a banner

[EWINGtheory]

Jaylen has done nothing but support ime publicly. He also wanted him hired. Ime obviously spoke highly of Durant as any coach would but there’s more smoke from media people that wyc was behind the KD pursuit than ime. Wyc was pissed off he lost to Lacob and the warriors. Lacob who he has a personal relationship with was rubbing it in wycs face. Was very personal for wyc.

“So, whether you stood on this side or this side, they was going to find wrong from a coach that I advocated to bring here to Boston. I wanted to see him back on his feet here, no matter what it was. I don’t think that’s the wrong thing to feel.”

- direct quotes from brown about ime from March of this year. In another article linking brown to the rockets they describe brown as one of ime’s biggest supporters. Management make and push for decisions like that not the coach. Of course the coach is going to offer his input or insight and say it’s not a good fit etc but he wasn’t running to the front office and negotiating trades.

[reload141]

Wonder if we can work a trade with Brown + Brogdon + for Dame and a S&T’d Jerami Grant with Houston/Portland involved

[Andrew McCeltic]

Looks like Washington is ready to tear down.. Beal to Minnesota, Towns to POR, Simons/Nurkic/3 to Washington checks boxes for every team..

Watch what happens with Porzingis, too. Coming off a healthy year, still high risk but going to get paid - headed to a cap space team, or a sign and trade discount for someone?

[chrisab123]

Dame wants to go to Miami or Brooklyn. Shocking that a star player wants to go to 2 of the 3 biggest markets in the NBA. Next thing he'll say is Warriors or Lakers. If you aren't in CA NY or Miami you're at a constant risk of losing your franchise players.

[chrisab123]

I'd love to see Brad go bonkers and bring in Porzingas or Beal but I can't see it.