2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III

[tiderulz]

Anyone open to #11 for Kuminga?

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Hmmmm..... Im cool. That means we use our #6 for shooting then. Kuminga still has upside and can immediately replace Chuma and Bol in the lineups and insurance for WCJ with his yearly medical vacation.

Kuminga not happy coming off the bench in GS. he really wouldnt be happy in Orlando

[axl_c_cool]

I’d gladly trade for Beal, he will be turning 30, but provides much needed veteran leadership and SHOOTING. I don’t think it would take much, something around Isaac, Harris, Cole and Denver pick

Draft Hendricks and Dick
Sign Naz Reid

Fultz/Suggs
Beal/Dick
Franz/Chuma
Paolo/Hendricks
WCJ/Naz/Wagner


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Not sure it would be this cheap I mean

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I think it’ll take two mid-late first plus cap relief, I think that’s Cole+Denver pick. I could be wrong though


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You could be right for age. I think I'd rather go a lottery protected pick rather than trade Cole, he's good value where he was drafted

2026: lottery protected
2027: lottery protected
2028; top 10 protected
2029: 2 x 2nd round picks

Add the cap space and players it might work

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[RookieStar]

Anyone open to #11 for Kuminga?

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Hmmmm..... Im cool. That means we use our #6 for shooting then. Kuminga still has upside and can immediately replace Chuma and Bol in the lineups and insurance for WCJ with his yearly medical vacation.

Kuminga not happy coming off the bench in GS. he really wouldnt be happy in Orlando

oh dang... forgot about that.

[Bensational]

Man, scrolling through previous drafts is the most sobering exercise, so many duds. Some huge, franchise changing hits too, but relatively low probability. This is why I think we go BPA and fit be damned.

I noticed this the other day when looking back on some historic drafts. Wanna join me on an exercise and go year for year for the last decade looking at lottery picks who didn't pan out?

I'll kick us off in 2013 at the start of our rebuild, in what is possibly the worst draft I've ever seen, 2nd to the Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer, Mike Miller, DeMarr Johnson, Chris Mihm draft.

I've colour coded them RED = out of league, ORANGE = in league, off bench, GREEN = in league, starter

1 - Anthony Bennett - I don't even remember why he went number 1. Was he like Larry Johnson reincarnate or something?
2 - Victor Oladipo - Was good, career derailed by injuries.
3 - Otto Porter Jr. - Slow starter, eventually became a good role player but career derailed by injuries.
4 - Cody Zeller - Just got off a run as the backup C on a finals team. Only thing of note he did was impress Steve Clifford enough to hold a starting job in Charlotte.
5 - Alex Len - Career bench big.
6 - Nerlens Noel - DPOTY potential C who had injury issues, otherwise would've gone top 3. He's 28 and only played 17 games this season off the deep bench for Detroit and Brooklyn. Not sure where he went wrong. Had a brief start under Thibs in NY, but it didn't lead to anything further.
7 - Ben McLemore - Out of league at 29. Supposed to be a shooter and athlete. Was mentioned in top 5 at points during the season. In the league he has done nothing and he didn't play in the 2022-23 season.
8 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - Has sneakily managed to become a 2 time champion and elite 3&D role player. Could Gradey be the KCP of this draft?
9 - Trey Burke - Out of league at 30. Sophomore PG who came with a lot of hype, but his game never translated to the pros. Supposed to be a shooter, only really had a few good shooting seasons. Last played off the bench for Dallas.
10 - CJ McCollum - Best player in the lottery, and to this date by a large margin.
11 - Michael Carter-Williams - ROTY never learned to shoot, helped lead our bench to the playoffs, not sure how much of a career he has left.
12 - Steven Adams - 2nd best player picked in the lottery by a wide margin. He has had a positive impact everywhere he has been. Solid, reliable C.
13 - Kelly Olynyk - Turning heads in Utah this season, he's managed to make a career out of being a 3pt shooting big man and had a trip to the finals out of it.
14 - Shabazz Muhammad - I forgot this guy ever existed.
BONUS - 15 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
BONUS - 27 - Rudy Gobert

[jonbob17]

Anyone open to #11 for Kuminga?

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Hmmmm..... Im cool. That means we use our #6 for shooting then. Kuminga still has upside and can immediately replace Chuma and Bol in the lineups and insurance for WCJ with his yearly medical vacation.

Does he still have upside? How does a guy with his size and athleticism not earn playoff minutes. I have no doubt that he is available and the Warriors are done with him. Just don't know why he would be a target when we are trying to build a winner here.

[jonbob17]

Man, scrolling through previous drafts is the most sobering exercise, so many duds. Some huge, franchise changing hits too, but relatively low probability. This is why I think we go BPA and fit be damned.

I noticed this the other day when looking back on some historic drafts. Wanna join me on an exercise and go year for year for the last decade looking at lottery picks who didn't pan out?

I'll kick us off in 2013 at the start of our rebuild, in what is possibly the worst draft I've ever seen, 2nd to the Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer, Mike Miller, DeMarr Johnson, Chris Mihm draft.

I've colour coded them RED = out of league, ORANGE = in league, off bench, GREEN = in league, starter

1 - Anthony Bennett - I don't even remember why he went number 1. Was he like Larry Johnson reincarnate or something?
2 - Victor Oladipo - Was good, career derailed by injuries.
3 - Otto Porter Jr. - Slow starter, eventually became a good role player but career derailed by injuries.
4 - Cody Zeller - Just got off a run as the backup C on a finals team. Only thing of note he did was impress Steve Clifford enough to hold a starting job in Charlotte.
5 - Alex Len - Career bench big.
6 - Nerlens Noel - DPOTY potential C who had injury issues, otherwise would've gone top 3. He's 28 and only played 17 games this season off the deep bench for Detroit and Brooklyn. Not sure where he went wrong. Had a brief start under Thibs in NY, but it didn't lead to anything further.
7 - Ben McLemore - Out of league at 29. Supposed to be a shooter and athlete. Was mentioned in top 5 at points during the season. In the league he has done nothing and he didn't play in the 2022-23 season.
8 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - Has sneakily managed to become a 2 time champion and elite 3&D role player. Could Gradey be the KCP of this draft?
9 - Trey Burke - Out of league at 30. Sophomore PG who came with a lot of hype, but his game never translated to the pros. Supposed to be a shooter, only really had a few good shooting seasons. Last played off the bench for Dallas.
10 - CJ McCollum - Best player in the lottery, and to this date by a large margin.
11 - Michael Carter-Williams - ROTY never learned to shoot, helped lead our bench to the playoffs, not sure how much of a career he has left.
12 - Steven Adams - 2nd best player picked in the lottery by a wide margin. He has had a positive impact everywhere he has been. Solid, reliable C.
13 - Kelly Olynyk - Turning heads in Utah this season, he's managed to make a career out of being a 3pt shooting big man and had a trip to the finals out of it.
14 - Shabazz Muhammad - I forgot this guy ever existed.
BONUS - 15 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
BONUS - 27 - Rudy Gobert

Oladipo was the best player in the lottery, but his peak was stolen from him by injury. Otto Porter's peak was probably the 2nd best player in the lottery. McCollum and Adams may have had the most productive careers..
Well you started with the worst lottery since 2000, so it can only go up from here

[thelead]

Man, scrolling through previous drafts is the most sobering exercise, so many duds. Some huge, franchise changing hits too, but relatively low probability. This is why I think we go BPA and fit be damned.

I noticed this the other day when looking back on some historic drafts. Wanna join me on an exercise and go year for year for the last decade looking at lottery picks who didn't pan out?

I'll kick us off in 2013 at the start of our rebuild, in what is possibly the worst draft I've ever seen, 2nd to the Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer, Mike Miller, DeMarr Johnson, Chris Mihm draft.

I've colour coded them RED = out of league, ORANGE = in league, off bench, GREEN = in league, starter

1 - Anthony Bennett - I don't even remember why he went number 1. Was he like Larry Johnson reincarnate or something?
2 - Victor Oladipo - Was good, career derailed by injuries.
3 - Otto Porter Jr. - Slow starter, eventually became a good role player but career derailed by injuries.
4 - Cody Zeller - Just got off a run as the backup C on a finals team. Only thing of note he did was impress Steve Clifford enough to hold a starting job in Charlotte.
5 - Alex Len - Career bench big.
6 - Nerlens Noel - DPOTY potential C who had injury issues, otherwise would've gone top 3. He's 28 and only played 17 games this season off the deep bench for Detroit and Brooklyn. Not sure where he went wrong. Had a brief start under Thibs in NY, but it didn't lead to anything further.
7 - Ben McLemore - Out of league at 29. Supposed to be a shooter and athlete. Was mentioned in top 5 at points during the season. In the league he has done nothing and he didn't play in the 2022-23 season.
8 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - Has sneakily managed to become a 2 time champion and elite 3&D role player. Could Gradey be the KCP of this draft?
9 - Trey Burke - Out of league at 30. Sophomore PG who came with a lot of hype, but his game never translated to the pros. Supposed to be a shooter, only really had a few good shooting seasons. Last played off the bench for Dallas.
10 - CJ McCollum - Best player in the lottery, and to this date by a large margin.
11 - Michael Carter-Williams - ROTY never learned to shoot, helped lead our bench to the playoffs, not sure how much of a career he has left.
12 - Steven Adams - 2nd best player picked in the lottery by a wide margin. He has had a positive impact everywhere he has been. Solid, reliable C.
13 - Kelly Olynyk - Turning heads in Utah this season, he's managed to make a career out of being a 3pt shooting big man and had a trip to the finals out of it.
14 - Shabazz Muhammad - I forgot this guy ever existed.
BONUS - 15 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
BONUS - 27 - Rudy Gobert

One of the worst drafts ever…. No wonder why mock drafts were all over the place that year.

After the top 3 of this draft, this years draft will be just as unpredictable. Hopefully, it’s more talented. It should be but you never know.

[RookieStar]

Anyone open to #11 for Kuminga?

Sent from my SM-G996B using RealGM mobile app

Hmmmm..... Im cool. That means we use our #6 for shooting then. Kuminga still has upside and can immediately replace Chuma and Bol in the lineups and insurance for WCJ with his yearly medical vacation.

Does he still have upside? How does a guy with his size and athleticism not earn playoff minutes. I have no doubt that he is available and the Warriors are done with him. Just don't know why he would be a target when we are trying to build a winner here.

Because he is still a 2nd yr player.

He is playing in a championship minded team who doesnt care about developing rookies over getting rings.

He plays in a position behind Wiggins that blew up.

With Wiseman showing signs of life when he got out of GS makes you think if it wont be the same.

[jonbob17]

Hmmmm..... Im cool. That means we use our #6 for shooting then. Kuminga still has upside and can immediately replace Chuma and Bol in the lineups and insurance for WCJ with his yearly medical vacation.

Does he still have upside? How does a guy with his size and athleticism not earn playoff minutes. I have no doubt that he is available and the Warriors are done with him. Just don't know why he would be a target when we are trying to build a winner here.

Because he is still a 2nd yr player.

He is playing in a championship minded team who doesnt care about developing rookies over getting rings.

He plays in a position behind Wiggins that blew up.

With Wiseman showing signs of life when he got out of GS makes you think if it wont be the same.

I wouldn't say Wiseman got much of a bump. He was pretty awful in Detroit. He scored 12.7 ppg but on putrid 53% FG..not great for a rim running big.
Neither of those guys seem like they have any feel for the game, Kuminga has been a bad defender. II can't imagine Kuminga getting a lottery pick at this stage...that car has been driven off the lot, and the picks are still mystery boxes...plus he's got two year less of a a rookie deal.
Wiseman was a straight up salary dump. I wouldn't be surprised if Kuminga doesn't end up being the same, or they just get back a Caruso or maybe Dorian Finney Smith

[Hogified05]

I’d gladly trade for Beal, he will be turning 30, but provides much needed veteran leadership and SHOOTING. I don’t think it would take much, something around Isaac, Harris, Cole and Denver pick

Draft Hendricks and Dick
Sign Naz Reid

Fultz/Suggs
Beal/Dick
Franz/Chuma
Paolo/Hendricks
WCJ/Naz/Wagner


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Not sure it would be this cheap I mean

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I think it’ll take two mid-late first plus cap relief, I think that’s Cole+Denver pick. I could be wrong though


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I absolutely think we could cash in for Beal. He is the scoring/shooting we need from the off guard. Just turned 30 it's not like he is out of his prime. Veteran leadership we could use. We immediately I feel would be top 4 or 5 in the East. He doesn't need the ball to score. Plus Florida ties.

Problem is:
A.) That contract is petrifyingly massive.
B.) He would have to want to come here. No trade clause. Plus we can't trade him if it doesn't work.

His contract, under the new CBA, basically makes him one of our 2 max guys. You know when Paolo is due for contract extension he will probably be the other. Franz isn't but we probably won't be able to afford him. I dunno. I think if you do it this is the all in moment and if you are it's best to do it while we have Paolo under his rookie deal. I have no doubt it makes us contenders in the East quickly but that contract is frightening for flexibility. If we can some how keep some combo of Fultz/Suggs/Cole and then Isaac/Carter/Franz around Paolo and Beal I'm for it. I just don't know if we will be able to.

[RookieStar]

Does he still have upside? How does a guy with his size and athleticism not earn playoff minutes. I have no doubt that he is available and the Warriors are done with him. Just don't know why he would be a target when we are trying to build a winner here.

Because he is still a 2nd yr player.

He is playing in a championship minded team who doesnt care about developing rookies over getting rings.

He plays in a position behind Wiggins that blew up.

With Wiseman showing signs of life when he got out of GS makes you think if it wont be the same.

I wouldn't say Wiseman got much of a bump. He was pretty awful in Detroit. He scored 12.7 ppg but on putrid 53% FG..not great for a rim running big.
Neither of those guys seem like they have any feel for the game, Kuminga has been a bad defender. II can't imagine Kuminga getting a lottery pick at this stage...that car has been driven off the lot, and the picks are still mystery boxes...plus he's got two year less of a a rookie deal.
Wiseman was a straight up salary dump. I wouldn't be surprised if Kuminga doesn't end up being the same, or they just get back a Caruso or maybe Dorian Finney Smith

2nd yr 6'8/6'9 wing player that can attack the rim? Showed a lot of promise in GL before being drafted? Hasnt really been given the chance to show what he can do? Some team will take the chance for a low lotto pick. Probably thinking they are the team that can unleash his potential

[pepe1991]

Zion is apsolute monster. Whenever he chooses to get himself into basketball shape.

I was like broken record during that draft crying how it's simply not possible to sustain that body and not break legs. Ofc, most people ignored biggest elephant in a draft room's history and were harping he is new face of NBA.

Being 6'6 you shouldn't weight over 250 pounds, let alone 280. ESPECIALLY if you are 19.

He even got hurt during college season. Than his shoe blew up under pressure of his body. How many red flags were there and Pelicans front office went like " nah, looks good to me, let's rewatch his highschool dunk tape" ?

Blake Griffin is living example of person who runned himself to a ground with his playstyle.

280? i thought i read his limit in his contract is 295

I refered to his college weight, he was 280 there reported.

[drsd]

Anyone open to #11 for Kuminga?

That is a value upgrade as it solidified the Magic bench and immediately leads to a Okeke upgrade. But that's not the kind of trade teams make.

[eyriq]

Man, scrolling through previous drafts is the most sobering exercise, so many duds. Some huge, franchise changing hits too, but relatively low probability. This is why I think we go BPA and fit be damned.

I noticed this the other day when looking back on some historic drafts. Wanna join me on an exercise and go year for year for the last decade looking at lottery picks who didn't pan out?

Spoiler:

I'll kick us off in 2013 at the start of our rebuild, in what is possibly the worst draft I've ever seen, 2nd to the Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer, Mike Miller, DeMarr Johnson, Chris Mihm draft.

I've colour coded them RED = out of league, ORANGE = in league, off bench, GREEN = in league, starter

1 - Anthony Bennett - I don't even remember why he went number 1. Was he like Larry Johnson reincarnate or something?
2 - Victor Oladipo - Was good, career derailed by injuries.
3 - Otto Porter Jr. - Slow starter, eventually became a good role player but career derailed by injuries.
4 - Cody Zeller - Just got off a run as the backup C on a finals team. Only thing of note he did was impress Steve Clifford enough to hold a starting job in Charlotte.
5 - Alex Len - Career bench big.
6 - Nerlens Noel - DPOTY potential C who had injury issues, otherwise would've gone top 3. He's 28 and only played 17 games this season off the deep bench for Detroit and Brooklyn. Not sure where he went wrong. Had a brief start under Thibs in NY, but it didn't lead to anything further.
7 - Ben McLemore - Out of league at 29. Supposed to be a shooter and athlete. Was mentioned in top 5 at points during the season. In the league he has done nothing and he didn't play in the 2022-23 season.
8 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - Has sneakily managed to become a 2 time champion and elite 3&D role player. Could Gradey be the KCP of this draft?
9 - Trey Burke - Out of league at 30. Sophomore PG who came with a lot of hype, but his game never translated to the pros. Supposed to be a shooter, only really had a few good shooting seasons. Last played off the bench for Dallas.
10 - CJ McCollum - Best player in the lottery, and to this date by a large margin.
11 - Michael Carter-Williams - ROTY never learned to shoot, helped lead our bench to the playoffs, not sure how much of a career he has left.
12 - Steven Adams - 2nd best player picked in the lottery by a wide margin. He has had a positive impact everywhere he has been. Solid, reliable C.
13 - Kelly Olynyk - Turning heads in Utah this season, he's managed to make a career out of being a 3pt shooting big man and had a trip to the finals out of it.
14 - Shabazz Muhammad - I forgot this guy ever existed.
BONUS - 15 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
BONUS - 27 - Rudy Gobert

I'll use the Ringer's Top 125, Basketball Reference, and 538 for some context as well.
2014

1 - Andrew Wiggins : #41 overall | 23.3 WS
2 - Jabari Parker : 310 G | 14.1 PTS | 5.5 TRB | 2.2 AST | 49.4 FG% | 32.6 FG3% | 74.3 FT% | 52.3 eFG% | 16.4 PER | 13.8 WS
3 - Joel Embiid : #5 overall | 56.0 WS
4 - Aaron Gordon : #45 overall | 35.6 WS
5 - Dante Exum : 245 G | 5.7 PTS | 1.8 TRB | 2.1 AST | 40.7 FG% | 30.5 FG3% | 76.4 FT% | 47.3 eFG% | 8.3 PER | 3.1 WS
6 - Marcus Smart : #71 | 33.3 WS
7 - Julius Randle : #43 | 39.5 WS
8 - Nik Stauskas : 343 G | 6.7 PTS | 2.0 TRB | 1.5 AST | 38.9 FG% | 35.4 FG3% | 81.2 FT% | 49.0 eFG% | 9.1 PER | 3.9 WS
9 - Noah Vonleh : RAPTOR Category = SCRUB | 9.4 WS
10 - Elfrid Payton : 500 G | 10.1 PTS | 4.0 TRB | 5.7 AST | 44.7 FG% | 28.7 FG3% | 62.3 FT% | 46.7 eFG% | 14.6 PER | 15.8 WS
11 - Doug McDermott : RAPTOR Category = SCRUB | 20.2 WS
12 - Dario Saric : RAPTOR Category = SCRUB | 18.1 WS
13 - Zach Lavine : #66 | 30.8 WS
14 - T.J.Warren : RAPTOR Category = SCRUB | 20.8 WS

Honorable Mention
41 - Nikola Jokić : #1 | 94.5 WS

[Skin]

I want Beal. Make it happen, WeHam.

[eyriq]

I want Beal. Make it happen, WeHam.

Gross

edit: 6th Man Show covered this perfectly today. Gist of it is that Beal doesn't fit the timeline. They make a compelling case.

[MasterGMer]

I wouldn't want Beal. Will Beal make us better? Yes. But he is not going to be the Donovan Mitchell for us. Plus even with Donovan Mitchell, CLE won't contend for a Championship. This trade will only make us mediocre. And even we depend on the organic growth of Franz and Paolo. Beal's time line plus ours are just different. Bad trade target. Just be patient

[basketballRob]

Beal is still trying to make more. He can pick his new team, and Washington has to pay him a 15% bonus to trade him.

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[bigdogdylan5]

I want Beal. Make it happen, WeHam.

I don’t think the Beal stuff is even possible. Put aside that insane contract for a second but he has a full no trade clause. I highly doubt he waives it for Orlando he is going to want the instant title contender.

[GatorbaitDD]

Beal the player 100% makes us better. Beal's contract however is a non starter for me. I'm fine with his age, I think "timeline" of all 5 starters is fantasy and 2k logic. In the real NBA, you need vets to win games. That said, if we are building around Franz and Paolo (which we are) we do have to consider max slots at 50m+ a year and how hard it will be to keep our young core.