Trade Ideas

[JujitsuFlip]

Isn't Denver a lesson in building a core and staying the course?

They stuck with their coach, they stuck with their core, they simply waited out their injuries while the team continued to improve and the opportunity to find the right complimentary pieces eventually came together.

They added KCP who is 29, Brown 26, and Gordon 27 around Jokic who is 27 and so far haven't over-payed for any of them, but we'll see what they do with Brown.

I'd rather see the Cavs target younger rotational players and try to avoid stop gaps and albatrosses that might derail what we're building. Alas, we have to manage the salary windows so players are contributing while we can still afford them.

Our coach is not their coach, not all coaches are created equal.

Cavs didn't stick with their core, they just traded an All-Star, Sexton, 3 unprotected future first, 2 unprotected swaps future firsts, and the rights to Agbaji drafted #14.

Who are you considering their core? Jokic, Murray, and MPJ? Cool, Garland and Mobley are our equivalent. Attached is a picture of the Nugs roster from when Malone took over in 2015.

I'm not sure the path forward is exactly clear for this Cavs squad.

I am hoping we are nearer the 2018-19 core of the Nuggets than we are 2015-16 Nuggets.

This is the 18-19 Nuggets plus MPJ and Vanderbilt, neither played a single game.

[JonFromVA]

It's all hypothetical, Koby already said no major shakeups will happen this summer.

But in the hypothetical, all it takes is 1 season, look at the Nuggets who finally got healthy and won a title.

Cavs already mortgaged the future, can't try to play it safe now, the future has already been mortgaged.

Same exact reason I'm fine if the starting SF is over 30, it's irrelevant to want to keep a 22 year old dude at SF, if he doesn't fit.

Isn't Denver a lesson in building a core and staying the course?

They stuck with their coach, they stuck with their core, they simply waited out their injuries while the team continued to improve and the opportunity to find the right complimentary pieces eventually came together.

They added KCP who is 29, Brown 26, and Gordon 27 around Jokic who is 27 and so far haven't over-payed for any of them, but we'll see what they do with Brown.

I'd rather see the Cavs target younger rotational players and try to avoid stop gaps and albatrosses that might derail what we're building. Alas, we have to manage the salary windows so players are contributing while we can still afford them.

Our coach is not their coach, not all coaches are created equal.

Cavs didn't stick with their core, they just traded an All-Star, Sexton, 3 unprotected future first, 2 unprotected swaps future firsts, and the rights to Agbaji drafted #14.

Who are you considering their core? Jokic, Murray, and MPJ? Cool, Garland and Mobley are our equivalent. Attached is a picture of the Nugs roster from when Malone took over in 2015.

I'm not sure the path forward is exactly clear for this Cavs squad.

Mike Malone could have been our coach, we had him here helping Mike Brown out back in the day. He ran our defense one season, then ran our offense another - did a nice job for us; but Malone is also the guy who got fired in Sacramento just part way through his 2nd season at right around the same age Bickerstaff is now.

Sure, all Denver had for a while was Jokic and Murray ... they lucked in to MPJ because of his injury problems causing him to fall in the draft, but they were already playing too well to get top picks. Their core was a work in progress until they added Aaron Gordon and they only really found a way to fill out their depth and avoid major injuries this season.

The Cavs core is meant to be Mitchell, Allen, Mobley, and Garland. Sexton never could establish a role on the team. That's a far more established core than Denver started with, but that doesn't mean they don't need time to learn how to play together, prove themselves, and of course show that they are all committed ...

... or prove Altman was wrong in the construction of that core.

[JujitsuFlip]

Isn't Denver a lesson in building a core and staying the course?

They stuck with their coach, they stuck with their core, they simply waited out their injuries while the team continued to improve and the opportunity to find the right complimentary pieces eventually came together.

They added KCP who is 29, Brown 26, and Gordon 27 around Jokic who is 27 and so far haven't over-payed for any of them, but we'll see what they do with Brown.

I'd rather see the Cavs target younger rotational players and try to avoid stop gaps and albatrosses that might derail what we're building. Alas, we have to manage the salary windows so players are contributing while we can still afford them.

Our coach is not their coach, not all coaches are created equal.

Cavs didn't stick with their core, they just traded an All-Star, Sexton, 3 unprotected future first, 2 unprotected swaps future firsts, and the rights to Agbaji drafted #14.

Who are you considering their core? Jokic, Murray, and MPJ? Cool, Garland and Mobley are our equivalent. Attached is a picture of the Nugs roster from when Malone took over in 2015.

I'm not sure the path forward is exactly clear for this Cavs squad.

Mike Malone could have been our coach, we had him here helping Mike Brown out back in the day. He ran our defense one season, then ran our offense another - did a nice job for us; but Malone is also the guy who got fired in Sacramento just part way through his 2nd season at right around the same age Bickerstaff is now.

Sure, all Denver had for a while was Jokic and Murray ... they lucked in to MPJ because of his injury problems causing him to fall in the draft, but they were already playing too well to get top picks. Their core was a work in progress until they added Aaron Gordon and they only really found a way to fill out their depth and avoid major injuries this season.

The Cavs core is meant to be Mitchell, Allen, Mobley, and Garland. Sexton never could establish a role on the team. That's a far more established core than Denver started with, but that doesn't mean they don't need time to learn how to play together, prove themselves, and of course show that they are all committed ...

... or prove Altman was wrong in the construction of that core.

Not sure that Cavs core's ceiling is any higher than the Mitchell/Gobert Jazz.

[JonFromVA]

Our coach is not their coach, not all coaches are created equal.

Cavs didn't stick with their core, they just traded an All-Star, Sexton, 3 unprotected future first, 2 unprotected swaps future firsts, and the rights to Agbaji drafted #14.

Who are you considering their core? Jokic, Murray, and MPJ? Cool, Garland and Mobley are our equivalent. Attached is a picture of the Nugs roster from when Malone took over in 2015.

I'm not sure the path forward is exactly clear for this Cavs squad.

Mike Malone could have been our coach, we had him here helping Mike Brown out back in the day. He ran our defense one season, then ran our offense another - did a nice job for us; but Malone is also the guy who got fired in Sacramento just part way through his 2nd season at right around the same age Bickerstaff is now.

Sure, all Denver had for a while was Jokic and Murray ... they lucked in to MPJ because of his injury problems causing him to fall in the draft, but they were already playing too well to get top picks. Their core was a work in progress until they added Aaron Gordon and they only really found a way to fill out their depth and avoid major injuries this season.

The Cavs core is meant to be Mitchell, Allen, Mobley, and Garland. Sexton never could establish a role on the team. That's a far more established core than Denver started with, but that doesn't mean they don't need time to learn how to play together, prove themselves, and of course show that they are all committed ...

... or prove Altman was wrong in the construction of that core.

Not sure that Cavs core's ceiling is any higher than the Mitchell/Gobert Jazz.

I'm also not sure that Mitchell's Jazz wouldn't have finally broken through and made the finals *if* they could have made it to the WCF healthy and a few years younger.

They had a very tight window due to the age/health of Conley and Ingles. They mismanaged Gordon Hayward's RFA and eventually lost him to the Celtics, which amazingly wasn't a complete disaster because Hayward got hurt in his first game as a Celtic (.vs. our Cavs) and hasn't been able to stay healthy/effective since.

It sure would have helped if they'd gotten something for him?

But then they lucked in to Mitchell and he thrust them back in to contention, so they hoped to capitalize by trading for Conley, but there's a reason he was available. The Grizz were breaking up their aging core.

So, they found a way to reset their core, but they also put that new core on the clock.

One of the major differences between our core and Utah's though, is the mobility and defense of our bigs. Utah had the shooters and facilitators, but they didn't have Mobley and Allen. Of course if we trade Allen, we won't either.

[JujitsuFlip]

Mike Malone could have been our coach, we had him here helping Mike Brown out back in the day. He ran our defense one season, then ran our offense another - did a nice job for us; but Malone is also the guy who got fired in Sacramento just part way through his 2nd season at right around the same age Bickerstaff is now.

Sure, all Denver had for a while was Jokic and Murray ... they lucked in to MPJ because of his injury problems causing him to fall in the draft, but they were already playing too well to get top picks. Their core was a work in progress until they added Aaron Gordon and they only really found a way to fill out their depth and avoid major injuries this season.

The Cavs core is meant to be Mitchell, Allen, Mobley, and Garland. Sexton never could establish a role on the team. That's a far more established core than Denver started with, but that doesn't mean they don't need time to learn how to play together, prove themselves, and of course show that they are all committed ...

... or prove Altman was wrong in the construction of that core.

Not sure that Cavs core's ceiling is any higher than the Mitchell/Gobert Jazz.

I'm also not sure that Mitchell's Jazz wouldn't have finally broken through and made the finals *if* they could have made it to the WCF healthy and a few years younger.

They had a very tight window due to the age/health of Conley and Ingles. They mismanaged Gordon Hayward's RFA and eventually lost him to the Celtics, which amazingly wasn't a complete disaster because Hayward got hurt in his first game as a Celtic (.vs. our Cavs) and hasn't been able to stay healthy/effective since.

It sure would have helped if they'd gotten something for him?

But then they lucked in to Mitchell and he thrust them back in to contention, so they hoped to capitalize by trading for Conley, but there's a reason he was available. The Grizz were breaking up their aging core.

So, they found a way to reset their core, but they also put that new core on the clock.

One of the major differences between our core and Utah's though, is the mobility and defense of our bigs. Utah had the shooters and facilitators, but they didn't have Mobley and Allen. Of course if we trade Allen, we won't either.

If neither Mobley or Allen are willing to take and make the outside shot, they can't both be apart of the long-term core. Outside of the Pistons, there's no other team in the NBA that starts 2 big guys who can't shoot. Add in the inconsistent and sporadic outside shot of Okoro and this core as some real issues in the front court that are visible and easy to exploit in a 7 game series.

[JonFromVA]

Not sure that Cavs core's ceiling is any higher than the Mitchell/Gobert Jazz.

I'm also not sure that Mitchell's Jazz wouldn't have finally broken through and made the finals *if* they could have made it to the WCF healthy and a few years younger.

They had a very tight window due to the age/health of Conley and Ingles. They mismanaged Gordon Hayward's RFA and eventually lost him to the Celtics, which amazingly wasn't a complete disaster because Hayward got hurt in his first game as a Celtic (.vs. our Cavs) and hasn't been able to stay healthy/effective since.

It sure would have helped if they'd gotten something for him?

But then they lucked in to Mitchell and he thrust them back in to contention, so they hoped to capitalize by trading for Conley, but there's a reason he was available. The Grizz were breaking up their aging core.

So, they found a way to reset their core, but they also put that new core on the clock.

One of the major differences between our core and Utah's though, is the mobility and defense of our bigs. Utah had the shooters and facilitators, but they didn't have Mobley and Allen. Of course if we trade Allen, we won't either.

If neither Mobley or Allen are willing to take and make the outside shot, they can't both be apart of the long-term core. Outside of the Pistons, there's no other team in the NBA that starts 2 big guys who can't shoot. Add in the inconsistent and sporadic outside shot of Okoro and this core as some real issues in the front court that are visible and easy to exploit in a 7 game series.

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm also not sure that Mitchell's Jazz wouldn't have finally broken through and made the finals *if* they could have made it to the WCF healthy and a few years younger.

They had a very tight window due to the age/health of Conley and Ingles. They mismanaged Gordon Hayward's RFA and eventually lost him to the Celtics, which amazingly wasn't a complete disaster because Hayward got hurt in his first game as a Celtic (.vs. our Cavs) and hasn't been able to stay healthy/effective since.

It sure would have helped if they'd gotten something for him?

But then they lucked in to Mitchell and he thrust them back in to contention, so they hoped to capitalize by trading for Conley, but there's a reason he was available. The Grizz were breaking up their aging core.

So, they found a way to reset their core, but they also put that new core on the clock.

One of the major differences between our core and Utah's though, is the mobility and defense of our bigs. Utah had the shooters and facilitators, but they didn't have Mobley and Allen. Of course if we trade Allen, we won't either.

If neither Mobley or Allen are willing to take and make the outside shot, they can't both be apart of the long-term core. Outside of the Pistons, there's no other team in the NBA that starts 2 big guys who can't shoot. Add in the inconsistent and sporadic outside shot of Okoro and this core as some real issues in the front court that are visible and easy to exploit in a 7 game series.

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

[ijspeelman]

If neither Mobley or Allen are willing to take and make the outside shot, they can't both be apart of the long-term core. Outside of the Pistons, there's no other team in the NBA that starts 2 big guys who can't shoot. Add in the inconsistent and sporadic outside shot of Okoro and this core as some real issues in the front court that are visible and easy to exploit in a 7 game series.

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

[jbk1234]

If neither Mobley or Allen are willing to take and make the outside shot, they can't both be apart of the long-term core. Outside of the Pistons, there's no other team in the NBA that starts 2 big guys who can't shoot. Add in the inconsistent and sporadic outside shot of Okoro and this core as some real issues in the front court that are visible and easy to exploit in a 7 game series.

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

I wouldn't say they're meaningless. I would say that over playing your starters at the expense of functioning rotations is something that Cavs need to reevaluate.

[JujitsuFlip]

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

I wouldn't say they're meaningless. I would say that over playing your starters at the expense of functioning rotations is something that Cavs need to reevaluate.

I 100% agree with that!

It's so inconsistent what JB values too, so as a player I can't imagine how difficult that is to understand how to earn minutes.

[JonFromVA]

If neither Mobley or Allen are willing to take and make the outside shot, they can't both be apart of the long-term core. Outside of the Pistons, there's no other team in the NBA that starts 2 big guys who can't shoot. Add in the inconsistent and sporadic outside shot of Okoro and this core as some real issues in the front court that are visible and easy to exploit in a 7 game series.

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

They're not meaningless to those of us who can afford or are able to watch them.

Also, I believe when you really break down what it takes to win a championship, it's not so much about spacing or shooting, it's about being able to impose your will on the other team. To still be able to execute when they're throwing everything at you, and to still be able to slow them down when they're playing their hardest.

After all, the Nuggets did just win a championship 4-1 shooting just 33% from 3pt as their best shooter went 4 for 28. They actually shot less 3pters than the Cavs.

Denver was very composed throughout the playoffs, the Cavaliers were not.

[jbk1234]

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

They're not meaningless to those of us who can afford or are able to watch them.

Also, I believe when you really break down what it takes to win a championship, it's not so much about spacing or shooting, it's about being able to impose your will on the other team. To still be able to execute when they're throwing everything at you, and to still be able to slow them down when they're playing their hardest.

After all, the Nuggets did just win a championship 4-1 shooting just 33% from 3pt as their best shooter went 4 for 28. They actually shot less 3pters than the Cavs.

Denver was very composed throughout the playoffs, the Cavaliers were not.

They shot 33% in no small part due to how the Heat defended the three point line, which in turn, allowed them to pound the ball inside. You don't get the one without the other. The Nuggets shot much better from 3 in series when they were played straight up.

Absent a wide disparity in talent, a top 3 player, or really imbalanced officiating, there is no imposing your will.

[JonFromVA]

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

I wouldn't say they're meaningless. I would say that over playing your starters at the expense of functioning rotations is something that Cavs need to reevaluate.

The idea is sound, in fact Jokic, Murray, Bam and Jimmy all played 41+ mpg in the finals which is no easy thing for bigs or guards expending a lot of energy.

The trick is how you get them to the point they can give you big minutes like that after playing 82 games and 3 rounds of playoffs and still play at a high level ... playing 3 of those games at high altitude no less.

[JujitsuFlip]

It's a theory, you know?

But here's a fact ...

This team didn't win squat until we paired Allen and Mobley.

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

They're not meaningless to those of us who can afford or are able to watch them.

Also, I believe when you really break down what it takes to win a championship, it's not so much about spacing or shooting, it's about being able to impose your will on the other team. To still be able to execute when they're throwing everything at you, and to still be able to slow them down when they're playing their hardest.

After all, the Nuggets did just win a championship 4-1 shooting just 33% from 3pt as their best shooter went 4 for 28. They actually shot less 3pters than the Cavs.

Denver was very composed throughout the playoffs, the Cavaliers were not.

It's not a money issue my friend, I just don't value cable as a whole and I'm not paying $20 per month for a janky app just for Cavs games. In the grand scheme, regular season wins mean nothing, 2 teams in the final 4 had 43 wins (7 seed) and 44 win (8 seed).

Spacing and shooting make imposing the teams will much easier.

As pointed out previously, the Nuggets didn't shoot poorly the playoffs, as a whole.

[jbk1234]

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

I wouldn't say they're meaningless. I would say that over playing your starters at the expense of functioning rotations is something that Cavs need to reevaluate.

The idea is sound, in fact Jokic, Murray, Bam and Jimmy all played 41+ mpg in the finals which is no easy thing for bigs or guards expending a lot of energy.

The trick is how you get them to the point they can give you big minutes like that after playing 82 games and 3 rounds of playoffs and still play at a high level ... playing 3 of those games at high altitude no less.

I'd argue that the Finals weren't all that close, and but for some questionable officiating in the 4th quarter of Game 2, would've resulted in a sweep. We saw a bit of the diminishing returns with max minutes approach in 2015 and again this year. Jokic was really the only one who wasn't showing signs of fatigue.

As far as the Knicks series, Allen actually played more mpg against that front court than Bam did.

[JonFromVA]

Yeah because all JB knows is defense. I would hope he could win with avoiding all shooting like it's the 90s. He for sure is not trying to play in the modern NBA with the slow tempo either.

Regular season wins are cool but at the end of the day, they're meaningless, just ask the 73-9 Warriors or the 67-15 Mavs.

Cavs with 51 and 44 the past 2 seasons still haven't won squat in the grand scheme of things.

They're not meaningless to those of us who can afford or are able to watch them.

Also, I believe when you really break down what it takes to win a championship, it's not so much about spacing or shooting, it's about being able to impose your will on the other team. To still be able to execute when they're throwing everything at you, and to still be able to slow them down when they're playing their hardest.

After all, the Nuggets did just win a championship 4-1 shooting just 33% from 3pt as their best shooter went 4 for 28. They actually shot less 3pters than the Cavs.

Denver was very composed throughout the playoffs, the Cavaliers were not.

It's not a money issue my friend, I just don't value cable as a whole and I'm not paying $20 per month for a janky app just for Cavs games. In the grand scheme, regular season wins mean nothing, 2 teams in the final 4 had 43 wins (7 seed) and 44 win (8 seed).

Spacing and shooting make imposing the teams will much easier.

As pointed out previously, the Nuggets didn't shoot poorly the playoffs, as a whole.

In the grand scheme of things, none of it means anything ... but the Heat and Nuggets had already achieved regular season success. For them it was all about how they played in the playoffs.

This is all new for the Cavs and the regular season is very important for them.

[JujitsuFlip]

They're not meaningless to those of us who can afford or are able to watch them.

Also, I believe when you really break down what it takes to win a championship, it's not so much about spacing or shooting, it's about being able to impose your will on the other team. To still be able to execute when they're throwing everything at you, and to still be able to slow them down when they're playing their hardest.

After all, the Nuggets did just win a championship 4-1 shooting just 33% from 3pt as their best shooter went 4 for 28. They actually shot less 3pters than the Cavs.

Denver was very composed throughout the playoffs, the Cavaliers were not.

It's not a money issue my friend, I just don't value cable as a whole and I'm not paying $20 per month for a janky app just for Cavs games. In the grand scheme, regular season wins mean nothing, 2 teams in the final 4 had 43 wins (7 seed) and 44 win (8 seed).

Spacing and shooting make imposing the teams will much easier.

As pointed out previously, the Nuggets didn't shoot poorly the playoffs, as a whole.

In the grand scheme of things, none of it means anything ... but the Heat and Nuggets had already achieved regular season success. For them it was all about how they played in the playoffs.

This is all new for the Cavs and the regular season is very important for them.

It's really not.

You believe 44 wins and losing both play-in games followed by winning 51 games and getting gentlemens swept in the first round is somehow beneficial? Hard disagree.

[ijspeelman]

It's not a money issue my friend, I just don't value cable as a whole and I'm not paying $20 per month for a janky app just for Cavs games. In the grand scheme, regular season wins mean nothing, 2 teams in the final 4 had 43 wins (7 seed) and 44 win (8 seed).

Spacing and shooting make imposing the teams will much easier.

As pointed out previously, the Nuggets didn't shoot poorly the playoffs, as a whole.

In the grand scheme of things, none of it means anything ... but the Heat and Nuggets had already achieved regular season success. For them it was all about how they played in the playoffs.

This is all new for the Cavs and the regular season is very important for them.

It's really not.

You believe 44 wins and losing both play-in games followed by winning 51 games and getting gentlemens swept in the first round is somehow beneficial? Hard disagree.

Are we able to see the full story first?

It could be beneficial... just depends on what the guys and the organization make from here.

Great teams can have bad starts. Take the Bucks 4 years out from their championship, two first round exits (which would most likely have been us if the play-in didn't exist).

I'm not saying its a given that this team can be great, but I don't want to crown them a failure in year one of a >3 year period with this core.

[JonFromVA]

It's not a money issue my friend, I just don't value cable as a whole and I'm not paying $20 per month for a janky app just for Cavs games. In the grand scheme, regular season wins mean nothing, 2 teams in the final 4 had 43 wins (7 seed) and 44 win (8 seed).

Spacing and shooting make imposing the teams will much easier.

As pointed out previously, the Nuggets didn't shoot poorly the playoffs, as a whole.

In the grand scheme of things, none of it means anything ... but the Heat and Nuggets had already achieved regular season success. For them it was all about how they played in the playoffs.

This is all new for the Cavs and the regular season is very important for them.

It's really not.

You believe 44 wins and losing both play-in games followed by winning 51 games and getting gentlemens swept in the first round is somehow beneficial? Hard disagree.

Of course it was beneficial and btw, that wasn't a "gentlemen's sweep". They weren't at any point up 3-0 and they didn't let us win a game so they could close us out at home. We were in fact only ~8 minutes away from tying the series and going back home tied 2-2.

And if they do have the wrong coach and the wrong roster? It's still beneficial. Clarity is always beneficial.

[JujitsuFlip]

In the grand scheme of things, none of it means anything ... but the Heat and Nuggets had already achieved regular season success. For them it was all about how they played in the playoffs.

This is all new for the Cavs and the regular season is very important for them.

It's really not.

You believe 44 wins and losing both play-in games followed by winning 51 games and getting gentlemens swept in the first round is somehow beneficial? Hard disagree.

Of course it was beneficial and btw, that wasn't a "gentlemen's sweep". They weren't at any point up 3-0 and they didn't let us win a game so they could close us out at home. We were in fact only ~8 minutes away from tying the series and going back home tied 2-2.

And if they do have the wrong coach and the wrong roster? It's still beneficial. Clarity is always beneficial.

https://www.sports-king.com/dictionary.php?q=gentlemans-sweep#:~:text=In%20sports%2C%20a%20%22gentleman's%20sweep,a%20losing%20team's%20home%20crowd.

It was 100% a gentlemen's sweep.