Trade/Free Agency Thread pt 4 - 2023-24 Off-season - Thread Dread Redemption!

[titlebound1]

Read on Twitter

I hate this kind of vague "report". If it's so significant, say what it is.

It's really unethical. Typical ESPN click bait garbage

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Not done yet..

You think another big one, like Dame? Brad putting all the chips on the table for 2023/24?

Doubtful

[165bows]

Read on Twitter

I hate this kind of vague "report". If it's so significant, say what it is.

Prob LA based. Helps them save face since they got squat and might even blow everything up.

I'm not optimistic on his health (overall, it's the same as it ever was) but short-term could mean the past 12 hours.

[NYCelticsfan136]

If we could get a legit point guard here.

[Hal14]

Hmmmm.

Read on Twitter

Hawks and Celtics seem to have been talking all week. JB?

Grant S&T for Hunter?

[BK_2020]

Hmmmm.

Read on Twitter

Hawks and Celtics seem to have been talking all week. JB?

Grant S&T for Hunter?

Two problems.
1. Deandre Hunter is a good player and you would need 10 Grant Williamses to even get the convo started.
2. BYC means Grant will have to be signed to something like $40 mil. a year to match salary with Hunter.

[celticfan42487]

The more I think about it. The more I have to think this only gets done with a CP3 guarantee he's coming here.

With the second apron coming up, no way you jump past that second apron to lock in a big 3 of always hurt KP, Brown, and Tatum.

So you traded 3 years of very cheap Marcus Smart for 1 year of KP.

You don't do that unless you consult with Tatum/Brown because you need Brown to resign and Tatum to not demand out.

And the only way that gets done for a 1 year run at the title is if you have a guarantee from CP3 he's coming too so you get a 1 year run in.

Then with Brown on the supermax... you were going to let go of Brogdon one way or another. Sounds like we were likely going to let go of Smart as well as others to avoid the second apron and go with youth. So it was always going to be one more year with the core and this is just the best one last year we could do.

This has to mean CP3 said he'll sign and start here.

He's the only one that has the playmaking skills and clutch ability to fix those issue which are our 2 biggest issues as a team both last year and the year before.

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

KP does 0 to help with that issue too. And he also HURTS us from a financial point of view from the second apron avoidance as a 1 year deal guy as opposed to a very cheap Smart who was locked up for 3 years.

So the only way this makes sense is Brad and the Jays got the guarantee from CP3 he's coming to sign off on getting rid of a cheap locked in long term and roughly same tier of asset in Smart for a 1 year rental in KP.

[BK_2020]

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

What? Derrick White played 36 minutes in game 7.

[reload141]

Not done yet..

You think another big one, like Dame? Brad putting all the chips on the table for 2023/24?

Doubtful

Don’t put a wet blanket on Dame, it’s fun making up unrealistic trades!

Surely when you were YOUNGer you’d understand this…

[Hal14]

The more I think about it. The more I have to think this only gets done with a CP3 guarantee he's coming here.

With the second apron coming up, no way you jump past that second apron to lock in a big 3 of always hurt KP, Brown, and Tatum.

So you traded 3 years of very cheap Marcus Smart for 1 year of KP.

You don't do that unless you consult with Tatum/Brown because you need Brown to resign and Tatum to not demand out.

And the only way that gets done for a 1 year run at the title is if you have a guarantee from CP3 he's coming too so you get a 1 year run in.

Then with Brown on the supermax... you were going to let go of Brogdon one way or another. Sounds like we were likely going to let go of Smart as well as others to avoid the second apron and go with youth. So it was always going to be one more year with the core and this is just the best one last year we could do.

This has to mean CP3 said he'll sign and start here.

He's the only one that has the playmaking skills and clutch ability to fix those issue which are our 2 biggest issues as a team both last year and the year before.

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

KP does 0 to help with that issue too. And he also HURTS us from a financial point of view from the second apron avoidance as a 1 year deal guy as opposed to a very cheap Smart who was locked up for 3 years.

So the only way this makes sense is Brad and the Jays got the guarantee from CP3 he's coming to sign off on getting rid of a cheap asset in Smart for a 1 year rental in KP.

I don't know if I buy that.

We're not doing a 1 year title run. Brad is too smart for that. every move he makes is factoring in both the short term and the long term implications. He is smart - and knows how hard it is to win a title in this league. Since it's so hard to win a title, you give yourself better odds at actually winning a title if you expand your window to 2, 3 or even 4 years. It's like playing the lottery - you give yourself a better chance at winning the lottery, the more tickets you buy.

I also think you're getting too hung up on what the PG position used to be. It's 2023. The game has evolved. You don't see the old school type of PG's in the league much anymore. It's combo guards (like Jamal Murray who just won a title), it's PG's who aren't true PG's because they shoot a million 3's (like Steph who's won 4 rings). It's scrappy undersized guards who mainly just shoot, defend and facilitate a little bit (like Gabe Vincent out of the g league to beat us in the ECF).

Let's not get too hung up on getting a PG.

The game has evolved. It used to be (in the 90's and before that) you didn't have many guys in the league who could actually handle the ball and initiate actions. So you needed 1 have 1 guy who was the PG - they ran the offense as a floor general. The John Stockton types.

But now in 2023, we have WAY more guys in the league who can handle the ball and get the team into an action, who can run PnR. We've got 6'9" freaks like Tatum (our best ball handler on the team) bringing the ball up. Many times run their offense through their big men, facilitating from the high post (Bam, Jokic, Al, Rob, etc.)

Lastly, I just made a post in the D-White thread, you may want to check out that further illustrates why I think we're in good shape and don't see much of a need to add another PG..

One other thing - I don't really see how adding an undersized 38 year old guard who can't stay healthy, has a huge ego and has never won a thing in his life is the answer.

I can picture it now. Brad did what you suggested and had some big, dramatic meeting with the Jays about staying on with the team long term. He told them how a team didn't want to trade for our old, injury prone, undersized guard so his solution is to try and acquire a guard who's older, more undersized and more injury prone.

The Jays would have laughed their a%%es and then walked out of the room.

[Celts17Pride]

You think another big one, like Dame? Brad putting all the chips on the table for 2023/24?

Doubtful

Don’t put a wet blanket on Dame, it’s fun making up unrealistic trades!

Surely when you were YOUNGer you’d understand this…

Do you think LarryBirdsFingr's post is going to stop anyone in this forum?

[Larry_Russell]

Not done yet..

You think another big one, like Dame? Brad putting all the chips on the table for 2023/24?

Doubtful

looking for a starter? or bench?

[Fencer reregistered]

The more I think about it. The more I have to think this only gets done with a CP3 guarantee he's coming here.

With the second apron coming up, no way you jump past that second apron to lock in a big 3 of always hurt KP, Brown, and Tatum.

So you traded 3 years of very cheap Marcus Smart for 1 year of KP.

You don't do that unless you consult with Tatum/Brown because you need Brown to resign and Tatum to not demand out.

And the only way that gets done for a 1 year run at the title is if you have a guarantee from CP3 he's coming too so you get a 1 year run in.

Then with Brown on the supermax... you were going to let go of Brogdon one way or another. Sounds like we were likely going to let go of Smart as well as others to avoid the second apron and go with youth. So it was always going to be one more year with the core and this is just the best one last year we could do.

This has to mean CP3 said he'll sign and start here.

He's the only one that has the playmaking skills and clutch ability to fix those issue which are our 2 biggest issues as a team both last year and the year before.

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

KP does 0 to help with that issue too. And he also HURTS us from a financial point of view from the second apron avoidance as a 1 year deal guy as opposed to a very cheap Smart who was locked up for 3 years.

So the only way this makes sense is Brad and the Jays got the guarantee from CP3 he's coming to sign off on getting rid of a cheap locked in long term and roughly same tier of asset in Smart for a 1 year rental in KP.

CP3 is a clutch playoff performer?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Stewart knows dick. But they talk to Atlanta every damn year. They don’t have the pieces to get Jaylen, we don’t want Hunter or Collins’ money, or Trae, they gave no reason to give up Okongwu, and apparently they soul-bonded with Clint Capela.

But Brogdon for one of their backcourt guys? Maybe.

I LOVE Dejounte Murray but he’s due for a new contract and you can’t swing it unless money tightens up around the whole league and he costs less than a max.

[ThirtyFour]

You think another big one, like Dame? Brad putting all the chips on the table for 2023/24?

Doubtful

Don’t put a wet blanket on Dame, it’s fun making up unrealistic trades!

Surely when you were YOUNGer you’d understand this…

Message received.

Spoiler:

Trae Young to Boston Confirmed

[celticfan42487]

The more I think about it. The more I have to think this only gets done with a CP3 guarantee he's coming here.

With the second apron coming up, no way you jump past that second apron to lock in a big 3 of always hurt KP, Brown, and Tatum.

So you traded 3 years of very cheap Marcus Smart for 1 year of KP.

You don't do that unless you consult with Tatum/Brown because you need Brown to resign and Tatum to not demand out.

And the only way that gets done for a 1 year run at the title is if you have a guarantee from CP3 he's coming too so you get a 1 year run in.

Then with Brown on the supermax... you were going to let go of Brogdon one way or another. Sounds like we were likely going to let go of Smart as well as others to avoid the second apron and go with youth. So it was always going to be one more year with the core and this is just the best one last year we could do.

This has to mean CP3 said he'll sign and start here.

He's the only one that has the playmaking skills and clutch ability to fix those issue which are our 2 biggest issues as a team both last year and the year before.

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

KP does 0 to help with that issue too. And he also HURTS us from a financial point of view from the second apron avoidance as a 1 year deal guy as opposed to a very cheap Smart who was locked up for 3 years.

So the only way this makes sense is Brad and the Jays got the guarantee from CP3 he's coming to sign off on getting rid of a cheap asset in Smart for a 1 year rental in KP.

I don't know if I buy that.

We're not doing a 1 year title run. Brad is too smart for that. He is smart - every move he makes is factoring in both the short term and the long term implications. He is smart - and knows how hard it is to win a title in this league. Since it's so hard to win a title, you give yourself better odds at actually winning a title if you expand your window to 2, 3 or even 4 years. It's like playing the lottery - you give yourself a better chance at winning the lottery, the more tickets you buy.

I also think you're getting too hung up on what the PG position used to be. It's 2023. The game has evolved. You don't see the old school type of PG's in the league much anymore. It's combo guards (like Jamal Murray who just won a title), it's PG's who aren't true PG's because they shoot a million 3's (like Steph who's won 4 rings). It's scrappy undersized guards who mainly just shoot, defend and facilitate a little bit (like Gabe Vincent out of the g league to beat us in the ECF).

Let's not get too hung up on getting a PG.

The game has evolved. It used to be (in the 90's and before that) you didn't have many guys in the league who could actually handle the ball and initiate actions. So you needed 1 have 1 guy who was the PG - they ran the offense as a floor general. The John Stockton types.

But now in 2023, we have WAY more guys in the league who can handle the ball and get the team into an action, who can run PnR. We've got 6'9" freaks like Tatum (our best ball handler on the team) bringing the bal up.

Lastly, I just made a post in the D-White thread, you may want to check out that further illustrates why I think we're in good shape and don't see much of a need to add another PG..

To be fair, I'm getting more hung up on what Jaylen Brown and KP can't do than what a modern PG is.

Neither are playmakers.

Neither are our current or past crop of PGs post this trade.

So it's still a need. KP and JB need someone to set them up and then they excel at finishing.

Last time we went into the playoffs with a double big lineup with Tatum as the only guy who can shoot, drive, and pass we ended up with him setting the record for the the most turnovers in the history of the NBA.

We also spent the past 2 years having what is it the worst record in close games in the NBA? With White and Brogdon on this team.

So it's not so much what is a PG. It's what can our stars do and not do. Our stars can't playmake outside of Tatum, so we need to find roleplayers that can in order to support them on offense appropriately. Much like Giannis can't really win a game for you end of game scoring so he needs a Middleton to be that guy despite being much worse, KG needed a Pierce despite never being an MVP level player like Pierce, ect ect ect.

Jokic needs Aaron Gordon, KCP, and MPJ to be athletic strong defenders to make up for his issues on that end.

Just guys that complement our star players.

KP is a nice piece and made an all-star game once 5 years ago. But he's not enough to overcome JB's weakness of 0 playmaking skills by giving him the ball and saying here KP score in ISO for us.

I think you need to give them more to isolate.


My second point outside of roster construction for a contender, was a GM point about the second apron. and JB being a max contract and KP being a free agent right when we'd also need to upgrade Tatum to his new supermax extension too.

Do you really want to throw 3 near maxes at JB, KP, and Tatum? A 1 time all-star who misses about 40% of the season, JB who can't playmake, and Tatum who is the only one that's actually worthy of it. And be at the second apron for the next 4 years? A lot of posters say this means JB will be traded tonight but I don't think that makes sense either.

That said the new CBA was made to say you can only have 2 maxes on your team and then you have to run bare bones pretty much for the rest of your roster. Players barely making $10 or more like with Smart was making. Which would mean Brogdon and KP would be walking away with Horford next year.

So idk that's what I see from the tea leaves and the current fit of this state of the roster that's not good enough and what to me clearly in no way looks like it can be a finished product or something Tatum and Brown would sign off of for a Smart trade who was the locker room leader still as absurd as that was that they hadn't asserted themselves that was just how it was they didn't care to put in the effort to be leaders and had Smart doing their jobs.

[celticfan42487]

The more I think about it. The more I have to think this only gets done with a CP3 guarantee he's coming here.

With the second apron coming up, no way you jump past that second apron to lock in a big 3 of always hurt KP, Brown, and Tatum.

So you traded 3 years of very cheap Marcus Smart for 1 year of KP.

You don't do that unless you consult with Tatum/Brown because you need Brown to resign and Tatum to not demand out.

And the only way that gets done for a 1 year run at the title is if you have a guarantee from CP3 he's coming too so you get a 1 year run in.

Then with Brown on the supermax... you were going to let go of Brogdon one way or another. Sounds like we were likely going to let go of Smart as well as others to avoid the second apron and go with youth. So it was always going to be one more year with the core and this is just the best one last year we could do.

This has to mean CP3 said he'll sign and start here.

He's the only one that has the playmaking skills and clutch ability to fix those issue which are our 2 biggest issues as a team both last year and the year before.

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

KP does 0 to help with that issue too. And he also HURTS us from a financial point of view from the second apron avoidance as a 1 year deal guy as opposed to a very cheap Smart who was locked up for 3 years.

So the only way this makes sense is Brad and the Jays got the guarantee from CP3 he's coming to sign off on getting rid of a cheap locked in long term and roughly same tier of asset in Smart for a 1 year rental in KP.

CP3 is a clutch playoff performer?

No, but compared to our guys he's super clutch.

At least for a team that what was it? The worst record in close games in the past 2 years despite being a contender both seasons? CP3 has a long record of leading his teams to having one of the best records in close games. And in those games he has been the closer for his team.

So that helps.

But yeah good point, it doesn't help that he isn't LeBron in terms of clutchness himself.

But beggars can't be choosers and he's the best we can get. And he's 100000x better than what we got right now.

(and for what it's worth Tatum is clutch he just turns the ball over before he gets the shot off. But if he could actually get a shot off before he turns the ball over in the clutch he generally makes it so maybe CP3 will be clutch enough to actually get Tatum an open look and Tatum will hit the shot and that will be a recipe for success)

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black - Cr: tbb345

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

Seems like that rumor would be Grant in a S+T, 25, GS 1st next year for Theis and 7? If the Celtics are moving up to 7, I assume Anthony Black would be the target? The other players in that range (Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Cam Whitmore) aren’t as clean of fits as Black - Cr: tbb345

Grant Williams can't be included in a S&T before the draft. Free agency doesn't start until early July.

[celticfan42487]

If Derrick White was some great PG we would have just played him at PG when we desperately needed help all last playoffs with creation and playmaking. Especially in game 7 with Tatum and Brogdon hurt. We didn't... because he's not. He's a SG and a worse PG than Smart plainly. That's just logic.

What? Derrick White played 36 minutes in game 7.

Ummm... cool? Smart played 35 minutes in game 7?

The point is if the answer to our playmaking questions was Derrick White. He would have solved them for us last year.

We didn't just say to ourselves, you know what let's not win it this year and purposively not use Derrick White as a PG because we'd be too good.

The answer to our playmaking problems wasn't on the roster. Because White, like Smart and Jaylen Brown and KP. Can't create for others.

We still need to find an answer to getting support for the Jays and now KP in the playmaking department to help properly build around our franchise cornerstones.