Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Claud]

We need better quality guard player. Priority #1

We need a rebounding big that can shoot the 3 to go alongside Clax. Priority #2

Curious to see what gets addressed tonight.

[Netaman]

here's a deal that combines a few different rumors:

1. obviously mavs #10 is on the block for veteran help, if they are bringing back kyrie adding 3+d in the front court would probably be the best use of that veteran help.

2. hawks want to cut $ and move up in the draft, supposedly willing to trade collins or murray to do it.

3. we know nets want to move up and are dangling both dfs/royce. murray is an interesting new twist that i think is worth giving up the philly pick. they still have enough assets to go after lillard at a later date if they choose (and aren't engaging now).



Murray gives them another defensive pest that will upgrade dinwiddie on the point and fits the age of the existing group. McGee is filler but also a functional backup C.

at #15 maybe the nets are in play for Lively or Coulibaly or Wallace or Bufkin whoever it is they are targeting to move up for.

At #22 they can maybe grab Hawkins or Jackson or the Jaquez (or Podz, or Prosper, or Whitehead, or whoever).

plenty of expiring salary left to make additional moves as the offseason moves along (dinwiddie, harris, patty). i think they'd be under apron even after extending cam j, so i think they'd have use of the TPMLE if they wanted to.

Hawks are getting hosed, giving up what are probably the second, third and fourth best assets in the deal.

they are getting the best asset in the deal with #10 and also saving almost $13m (which is probably close to a FRP equivalent). if nets were just trying to dump Harris' 18m i'd expect that to cost a protected future first.

Murray with 1 year left and after not fitting has to be worth less than last year when he brought back 3 firsts, this deal gives atlanta +2 good firsts (including 10th overall and the philly pick in 2027) + royce (who brought back a 1st last year) + cost savings.

the rumors of what they want to do may not be accurate and any deal could take an extra pick or player but value wise i dont think it's too far off.

[TheNetsFan]

here's a deal that combines a few different rumors:

1. obviously mavs #10 is on the block for veteran help, if they are bringing back kyrie adding 3+d in the front court would probably be the best use of that veteran help.

2. hawks want to cut $ and move up in the draft, supposedly willing to trade collins or murray to do it.

3. we know nets want to move up and are dangling both dfs/royce. murray is an interesting new twist that i think is worth giving up the philly pick. they still have enough assets to go after lillard at a later date if they choose (and aren't engaging now).



Murray gives them another defensive pest that will upgrade dinwiddie on the point and fits the age of the existing group. McGee is filler but also a functional backup C.

at #15 maybe the nets are in play for Lively or Coulibaly or Wallace or Bufkin whoever it is they are targeting to move up for.

At #22 they can maybe grab Hawkins or Jackson or the Jaquez (or Podz, or Prosper, or Whitehead, or whoever).

plenty of expiring salary left to make additional moves as the offseason moves along (dinwiddie, harris, patty). i think they'd be under apron even after extending cam j, so i think they'd have use of the TPMLE if they wanted to.

Hawks are getting hosed, giving up what are probably the second, third and fourth best assets in the deal.

they are getting the best asset in the deal with #10 and also saving almost $13m (which is probably close to a FRP equivalent). if nets were just trying to dump Harris' 18m i'd expect that to cost a protected future first.

Murray with 1 year left and after not fitting has to be worth less than last year when he brought back 3 firsts, this deal gives atlanta +2 good firsts (including 10th overall and the philly pick in 2027) + royce (who brought back a 1st last year) + cost savings.

the rumors of what they want to do may not be accurate and any deal could take an extra pick or player but value wise i dont think it's too far off.

Drop #15 & it's more fair, though I think the Nets would want to hold one of their picks back (#22).

[TheNetsFan]

If we do nothing to add or subtract from future salary except resign Johnson & sign the two rookies, we should be able to get to about $29mil in cap space next summer (if we renounce Claxton's $16mil cap hold). If we move DFS for expiring money this year, we can get to a max slot or have roughly $28mil in space & retain Claxton's cap hold. There's always the option of dumping Simmons as well via trade or buyout & stretch. The 2024 class isn't great though. Sabonis, Siakam & Murray would likely be the marquee targets if they don't extend sooner. Landing a guy like that in 2024 FA, and then being armed with picks & Simmons' large expiring deal would be a good position to be in. Barring a blockbuster, superstar trade, I think Marks is going to be patient and avoid taking on long term money (via trade or FA signing).

[Netaman]

Hawks are getting hosed, giving up what are probably the second, third and fourth best assets in the deal.

they are getting the best asset in the deal with #10 and also saving almost $13m (which is probably close to a FRP equivalent). if nets were just trying to dump Harris' 18m i'd expect that to cost a protected future first.

Murray with 1 year left and after not fitting has to be worth less than last year when he brought back 3 firsts, this deal gives atlanta +2 good firsts (including 10th overall and the philly pick in 2027) + royce (who brought back a 1st last year) + cost savings.

the rumors of what they want to do may not be accurate and any deal could take an extra pick or player but value wise i dont think it's too far off.

Drop #15 & it's more fair, though I think the Nets would want to hold one of their picks back (#22).

so in other words it's close enough in value that it's basically the difference of 7 slots? i don't disagree and i think if the issue is atlanta needs more value there are other ways to do it - like add cam thomas (or if atlanta doesnt like cam, flip him to a 3rd team and give atlanta another future first).

my point is i think all the main pieces in the deal fit.

dallas gets a big boost in defense that fits their win now construction (esp if kyrie is coming back).

atlanta saves money, gets #10, gets Royce whose size should fit well next to Trae, and gets value for a player they probably aren't going to be extending because he didnt fit.

nets move up 7 picks and cash in their wings + philly 2027 for a player who fits the roster better.

like i said if atlanta needs a little more value then there are ways to add it if the objectives they are trying to accomplish are correct (move up in draft and save money).

[TheNetsFan]

A very distant protected 1st & a distant second to dump Poole on Washington.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

How did the wizards get the first round swap in 2028 from Phoneix in the Beal trade?

Don't the Nets have the right to that swap from the KD trade?

Read on Twitter

[Packers+NetsWIN]

How did the wizards get the first round swap in 2028 from Phoneix in the Beal trade?

Don't the Nets have the right to that swap from the KD trade?

Read on Twitter

Nevermind, found the answer to my own question somewhere else: "The 2028 swap will be for the weakest pick among Phoenix's own, Brooklyn's and Philadelphia's because of the swap rights the Nets already got in the Kevin Durant trade. The 2030 swap, by contrast, could have some upside for the Wizards."

[TheNetsFan]

How did the wizards get the first round swap in 2028 from Phoneix in the Beal trade?

Don't the Nets have the right to that swap from the KD trade?

Read on Twitter

Second in line. We get the right to swap first. Then the Wizards get to swap their pick with the pick the Suns have left. Basically we get the best, Wizards middle and Suns worst pick.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

How did the wizards get the first round swap in 2028 from Phoneix in the Beal trade?

Don't the Nets have the right to that swap from the KD trade?

Read on Twitter

Second in line. We get the right to swap first. Then the Wizards get to swap their pick with the pick the Suns have left. Basically we get the best, Wizards middle and Suns worst pick.

Thank you!

[vincecarter4pres]

If Marks/Tsai turn down 3rd overall/Simons/future picks or swaps, and/or Sharpe for Bridges, this is probably going to be one of those, "What the were they thinking?!", conversations in a few years. And I say that believing Bridges will probably be a 22/5/3 guy with good defense the rest of his prime.

This is going to be another disappointing domino effect move. They're going to blow all the future draft assets on someone like Lillard or KAT, add some expensive salary dump guy next season and wind up a pretender contender for a few years and watch whoever they would have drafted at 3rd overall this year, and at least one of those future picks become young studs.

[Netaman]

If Marks/Tsai turn down 3rd overall/Simons/future picks or swaps, and/or Sharpe for Bridges, this is probably going to be one of those, "What the were they thinking?!", conversations in a few years. And I say that believing Bridges will probably be a 22/5/3 guy with good defense the rest of his prime.

This is going to be another disappointing domino effect move. They're going to blow all the future draft assets on someone like Lillard or KAT, add some expensive salary dump guy next season and wind up a pretender contender for a few years and watch whoever they would have drafted at 3rd overall this year, and at least one of those future picks become young studs.

with scoot now likely going 2nd idk about that. miller may end up better than bridges but not sure id roll the dice on that. and im not sure they'd even be willing to roll the dice in this market based on the bad decision re the gun.

maybe i havent seen enough of them but simons and/or sharpe seem like they would come here and put up big empty numbers and in simons case he already makes more than bridges. we just saw what poole was worth.

bridges for better or worse gives the team an identity, and i think with a few smart moves that will include being a winning team above .500 (which they were close to even if the shotgun wedding aftermath of the deadline). becoming blazers east is 20 win team. probably true even with scoot but i can see an argument for his upside.

keeping bridges and trying to get as high as possible to get a lotto talent is the move. after scoot and wemby, im not sure there's going to be much difference between whoever is #3 on their board and #10 (which could be whitmore or hendricks or lively or black).

[vincecarter4pres]

If Marks/Tsai turn down 3rd overall/Simons/future picks or swaps, and/or Sharpe for Bridges, this is probably going to be one of those, "What the were they thinking?!", conversations in a few years. And I say that believing Bridges will probably be a 22/5/3 guy with good defense the rest of his prime.

This is going to be another disappointing domino effect move. They're going to blow all the future draft assets on someone like Lillard or KAT, add some expensive salary dump guy next season and wind up a pretender contender for a few years and watch whoever they would have drafted at 3rd overall this year, and at least one of those future picks become young studs.

with scoot now likely going 2nd idk about that. miller may end up better than bridges but not sure id roll the dice on that. and im not sure they'd even be willing to roll the dice in this market based on the bad decision re the gun.

maybe i havent seen enough of them but simons and/or sharpe seem like they would come here and put up big empty numbers and in simons case he already makes more than bridges. we just saw what poole was worth.

bridges for better or worse gives the team an identity, and i think with a few smart moves that will include being a winning team above .500 (which they were close to even if the shotgun wedding aftermath of the deadline). becoming blazers east is 20 win team. probably true even with scoot but i can see an argument for his upside.

keeping bridges and trying to get as high as possible to get a lotto talent is the move. after scoot and wemby, im not sure there's going to be much difference between whoever is #3 on their board and #10 (which could be whitmore or hendricks or lively or black).

Don’t disagree with a lot of this and there’s more than one way to skin a cat, but honestly who would care if we won 20 games and swapped the 2nd overall next year for the 7th, if we get a king’s ransom for Bridges and Scoot or Miller wind up a near future stud?

Simons is mainly an empty stat filler for this team, but you can reflip him at the deadline or next summer, and Sharpe has a crazy high upside.

[Papi_swav]

Doubtful he doesn’t extend.

With the new CBA rules idk how they can afford Tatum/JB/KP all together

EDIT: well now Smart is going to the Grizz which I'm happy he's not on the Celtics anymore. Tyus Jones going to the Wiz for nothing, maybe we can try to swoop in and steal him from them.

None of that stuff kicks in until July and most of the penalties don’t begin until next summer, teams are trying to abuse loopholes while they still can.

yea this is exactly why I don't see them resigning KP next year if those penalties begin next summer

[Netaman]

where things go post-draft will be pretty interesting. would think if the Raps stuff re Siakam is legit, they are going to bring back FVV too and just run the whole thing back?

backup big and a scoring guard would still seem like the key needs other than getting Cam Johnson extended. Still at least 1 too many wings.

I assume everything starts with Lillard until that gets resolved one way or another. After that everything seems pretty wide open. Murray would be an interesting plan B. some version of royce (or dfs), cam t, and maybe patty for murray is almost = $, royce or cam t could obviously go the 3rd teams with picks going to atlanta. i think murray is worth the phoenix 2025 of philly 2027 pick.

[TheNetsFan]

where things go post-draft will be pretty interesting. would think if the Raps stuff re Siakam is legit, they are going to bring back FVV too and just run the whole thing back?

backup big and a scoring guard would still seem like the key needs other than getting Cam Johnson extended. Still at least 1 too many wings.

I assume everything starts with Lillard until that gets resolved one way or another. After that everything seems pretty wide open. Murray would be an interesting plan B. some version of royce (or dfs), cam t, and maybe patty for murray is almost = $, royce or cam t could obviously go the 3rd teams with picks going to atlanta. i think murray is worth the phoenix 2025 of philly 2027 pick.

I'm expecting a blockbuster for a star or pretty much nothing this offseason. Murray is a free agent next year. Why give up multiple picks, when we can have cap space by treading water for a year? We likely try to sell vets unlikely to be retained next year for longer term assets, but that's it. Anybody brought in has to be an expiring or worth giving up future cap space.

[JoseRizal]

How do you feel guys about the earlier report that we turned down #3 (Scoot) & Simons for Mikal?

[Netaman]

where things go post-draft will be pretty interesting. would think if the Raps stuff re Siakam is legit, they are going to bring back FVV too and just run the whole thing back?

backup big and a scoring guard would still seem like the key needs other than getting Cam Johnson extended. Still at least 1 too many wings.

I assume everything starts with Lillard until that gets resolved one way or another. After that everything seems pretty wide open. Murray would be an interesting plan B. some version of royce (or dfs), cam t, and maybe patty for murray is almost = $, royce or cam t could obviously go the 3rd teams with picks going to atlanta. i think murray is worth the phoenix 2025 of philly 2027 pick.

I'm expecting a blockbuster for a star or pretty much nothing this offseason. Murray is a free agent next year. Why give up multiple picks, when we can have cap space by treading water for a year? We likely try to sell vets unlikely to be retained next year for longer term assets, but that's it. Anybody brought in has to be an expiring or worth giving up future cap space.

i probably wouldn't give up multiple picks directly for Murray, they need to rebalance the roster because they still have too many wings so id be looking to trade whatever future picks you can get for royce or dfs with cam. if i had to add in 1 future first that's an unlikely to be lotto id do that (phoenix 25 or philly 27).

if washington is open to dealing tyus jones, or if orlando is open to dealing suggs, those are other guys id consider too. again, ideally paid for in large part by a team acquiring dfs or oneale just because the nets honestly just dont have minutes for both of them. in an ideal world neither is starting on the nets next year unless they get lillard.

[JKiddy]

I am fine with it. I would have seriously pondered if it were #3, Simons, and Sharpe. That would have been something to really think about and possibly get upset about. But, now it does not make logical sense to make that deal. It might turn out poorly for us come 2025/26. But, if we build a team around Mikal and improve it with a better player than he in the near future, this will be a moot point UNLESS Scoot becomes MJ/Kobe level.

[Netaman]

How do you feel guys about the earlier report that we turned down #3 (Scoot) & Simons for Mikal?

simons is already paid more than mikal and seems like an empty stat stuffer, so given the poole trade i view him almost negative value.

so then it comes down to scoot's upside vs. bridges value on that contract. it is close tbh and id have been comfortable either way. bridges is the safer decision, and i guess if lillard is really in play that's the preferable road because i think in this version of the east if they get lillard they are going to be a top 4 team. possibly top 3 if harden leaves philly, and likely with more picks to trade + simmons as a salary match to make another big move in the next 12-18 months post-lillard trade.