Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time

[contract]

Bad night to be a Heat fan.

Alot of teams did some smart moves to get better and add assets or players.



We reached for a 23YO senior, and went to sleep.

Was a time when that wasn't a bad night.

[Jinsaryko]

Read on Twitter

Basically just over a week

And the Heat will wait. Even if it goes beyond a week they'll wait. Even if it goes to the trade deadline next season they'll wait. Pat will get his whale. Sooner or later, might not even be the same whale. But he'll get one. You can only strike out so many times, right? Gotta stay positive.

[contract]

Bertans traded twice and Duncan still on this damn roster

He's like a bad smell you can't get rid of.

[Slot Machine]

I still cannot believe we had an off-season where we gave Lowry 3/85 and Duncan 5/90. That 2021 offseason is the stuff of nightmares.

[heatwillbeback]

I still cannot believe we had an off-season where we gave Lowry 3/85 and Duncan 5/90. That 2021 offseason is the stuff of nightmares.

And we let our precious get away.

[CrossOver]

I still cannot believe we had an off-season where we gave Lowry 3/85 and Duncan 5/90. That 2021 offseason is the stuff of nightmares.

And yet they've made it to the ECF twice and an NBA Finals since doing that. Picking and choosing this stuff seems silly when you don't take into account the overall success the team has garnered within the duration of those deals. And I say this as someone who absolutely hated the Duncan deal but he was a big part of why they made the run they did this post season.

I certainly think those guys will be on the move this off-season but it's kind of crazy to consider their deals "nightmares" understanding what the team accomplished.

[VaDe255]

Pretty much the expected result.
Think Portland will decide on rebuilding and trade Dame evetually. It makes too much sense and trading for top talent is difficult, unless it is a firesale like Washington just did, chances are high that Portland is not gonna get a trade they want.

I still hate how this front office just has no balls to commit. It's much worse to do nothing, than to take a risk. Doing nothing is guarateed failure.

This is now gonna extend until Dame asks out.

At this point they are commited and after Beal/Zingus, there really isn't a player right now that changes much for them.

Anyway, chances are growing for Dame to be traded, at least.

[Slot Machine]

I still cannot believe we had an off-season where we gave Lowry 3/85 and Duncan 5/90. That 2021 offseason is the stuff of nightmares.

And yet they've made it to the ECF twice and an NBA Finals since doing that. Picking and choosing this stuff seems silly when you don't take into account the overall success the team has garnered within the duration of those deals. And I say this as someone who absolutely hated the Duncan deal but he was a big part of why they made the run they did this post season.

I certainly think those guys will be on the move this off-season but it's kind of crazy to consider their deals "nightmares" understanding what the team accomplished.

They accomplished what they did despite Robinson and Lowry. Overall team success doesn’t erase terrible financial moves/cap management. And that’s not even considering how much those deals have hamstrung our roster construction and ability to make moves since.

[CrossOver]

I still cannot believe we had an off-season where we gave Lowry 3/85 and Duncan 5/90. That 2021 offseason is the stuff of nightmares.

And yet they've made it to the ECF twice and an NBA Finals since doing that. Picking and choosing this stuff seems silly when you don't take into account the overall success the team has garnered within the duration of those deals. And I say this as someone who absolutely hated the Duncan deal but he was a big part of why they made the run they did this post season.

I certainly think those guys will be on the move this off-season but it's kind of crazy to consider their deals "nightmares" understanding what the team accomplished.

They accomplished what they did despite Robinson and Lowry. Overall team success doesn’t erase terrible financial moves/cap management. And that’s not even considering how much those deals have hamstrung our roster construction and ability to make moves since.

Duncan and Lowry were big contributors in this years post season so no, they didn't do it in spite of them. It's not hard to look at this stuff objectively. I know Duncan and Kyle are polarizing players because of their regular season play, or lack thereof, but they were huge contributors in the playoffs.

[3ballbomber]

we gonna run it back

Dame is now giving Blazers until training camp to get a veteran team

dude, they used the #3. they called his bluff.


dame aint going anywhere, he will retire ringless.

and we runnin it back. im going to bed.

They took the 3 and have a lot of money to spend in free agency. Dame to the Heat continues to be a media hyped pipe dream.

Again, dude simply answered a hypothetical question. That's it I'm not sure how that turned into Dame suddenly leaving the team he's been happy to rot in to join the Heat

Dame strikes me as a guy who's happy to put up stats. I'm not going to question his loyalty or competitiveness but it's obvious to any smart person Portland has done nothing to maximise his opportunity for a title....I'm sure he's well aware of that - yet he's been perfectly fine w/ it. The money's good & nobody can question his ethics. Championships aren't a goal for some players in spite of what they may say.

If he does happen to ask out of Portland, which i don't see happening, it will be the same scenario....he'll have Heat on his list, but won't be his ONLY preference & inevitably moved to a team w/ the better assets.

Who knows we may well get him but i'd move on. . .

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

[Bishop45]

The last time the fan base was happy overall with our picks was Winslow and J Rich, I’ll trust the FO knows what they’re doing

[Slot Machine]

And yet they've made it to the ECF twice and an NBA Finals since doing that. Picking and choosing this stuff seems silly when you don't take into account the overall success the team has garnered within the duration of those deals. And I say this as someone who absolutely hated the Duncan deal but he was a big part of why they made the run they did this post season.

I certainly think those guys will be on the move this off-season but it's kind of crazy to consider their deals "nightmares" understanding what the team accomplished.

They accomplished what they did despite Robinson and Lowry. Overall team success doesn’t erase terrible financial moves/cap management. And that’s not even considering how much those deals have hamstrung our roster construction and ability to make moves since.

Duncan and Lowry were big contributors in this years post season so no, they didn't do it in spite of them. It's not hard to look at this stuff objectively. I know Duncan and Kyle are polarizing players because of their regular season play, or lack thereof, but they were huge contributors in the playoffs.

Evidently it is - both guys put up 9 points per game in the playoffs and were bench players.

18ppg for $43.8M in contracts is terrible value. They're 3rd and 4th on the team in salary and you could argue that maybe one of them was top 5 on the team in terms of playoff importance (Jimmy, Bam, Caleb, Gabe then Lowry/Robinson/Love in some order). This is also not considering the negative value of their contracts and the implication that has on team-building and additions when considering the 2nd apron.

Let's use a little bit of nuance here instead of "team=good, thus every player and contract on team=good."

[gom]

Perspective:

Code: Select all

+--------------------+-----------+---------+---------+------------+---------+---------+------------+----------+-------------+
| Name               |   Drafted |   MP RS |   WS RS |   WS/48 RS |   MP PO |   WS PO |   WS/48 PO |   Impact |   Impact/48 |
|--------------------+-----------+---------+---------+------------+---------+---------+------------+----------+-------------|
| Mirsad Türkcan     |      1998 |     180 |    -0.1 |     -0.027 |      10 |    -0.1 |     -0.48  |     -0.5 |      -0.126 |
| Luther Wright      |      1993 |      92 |    -0.1 |     -0.052 |       0 |     0   |      0     |     -0.1 |      -0.052 |
| Kevin Brooks       |      1991 |    1031 |    -0.1 |     -0.005 |       5 |     0   |      0     |     -0.1 |      -0.005 |
| Tre Mann           |      2021 |    2550 |     0.6 |      0.011 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      0.6 |       0.011 |
| Tyler Ennis        |      2014 |    3335 |     1.4 |      0.02  |      16 |     0   |      0     |      1.4 |       0.02  |
| Oleksiy Pecherov   |      2006 |    1044 |     0.6 |      0.028 |       8 |     0   |      0     |      0.6 |       0.027 |
| Eric Mobley        |      1994 |    2246 |     1.3 |      0.028 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      1.3 |       0.028 |
| Lonnie Walker IV   |      2018 |    5537 |     3.7 |      0.032 |      22 |     0   |      0     |      3.7 |       0.032 |
| Henry Ellenson     |      2016 |    1046 |     0.7 |      0.032 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      0.7 |       0.032 |
| Curtis Borchardt   |      2002 |    1117 |     0.9 |      0.039 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      0.9 |       0.039 |
| Chris Singleton    |      2011 |    2605 |     2.2 |      0.041 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      2.2 |       0.041 |
| John Wallace       |      1996 |    6143 |     6.4 |      0.05  |      44 |    -0.1 |     -0.109 |      6   |       0.047 |
| Shane Larkin       |      2013 |    4880 |     4.4 |      0.043 |     164 |     0.2 |      0.059 |      5.2 |       0.049 |
| Ray Tolbert        |      1981 |    4762 |     5   |      0.05  |      33 |     0.1 |      0.145 |      5.4 |       0.054 |
| Chris Anstey       |      1997 |    2157 |     2.8 |      0.062 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      2.8 |       0.062 |
| Gerald Green       |      2005 |   13388 |    18.2 |      0.065 |     802 |     0.7 |      0.042 |     21   |       0.071 |
| Mark Alarie        |      1986 |    5500 |     8.3 |      0.072 |      45 |     0   |      0     |      8.3 |       0.072 |
| Don Collins        |      1980 |    7979 |    13   |      0.078 |     151 |     0   |      0     |     13   |       0.077 |
| Jason Collins      |      2001 |   16530 |    20.6 |      0.06  |    2034 |     2.4 |      0.057 |     30.2 |       0.078 |
| Josh Green         |      2020 |    3023 |     5.5 |      0.087 |     125 |    -0.1 |     -0.038 |      5.1 |       0.078 |
| Duane Causwell     |      1990 |    9409 |    15.8 |      0.081 |      55 |     0.1 |      0.087 |     16.2 |       0.082 |
| Ricky Berry        |      1988 |    1406 |     2.4 |      0.082 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      2.4 |       0.082 |
| Sam Dekker         |      2015 |    3885 |     6.4 |      0.079 |      31 |     0.1 |      0.155 |      6.8 |       0.083 |
| Quentin Richardson |      2000 |   20785 |    32.7 |      0.076 |     899 |     1.3 |      0.069 |     37.9 |       0.084 |
| Dave Corzine       |      1978 |   20772 |    37.5 |      0.087 |    1332 |     1   |      0.036 |     41.5 |       0.09  |
| Marco Belinelli    |      2007 |   21495 |    34.2 |      0.076 |    1374 |     2.3 |      0.08  |     43.4 |       0.091 |
| Randy Breuer       |      1983 |   14378 |    23   |      0.077 |     870 |     1.6 |      0.088 |     29.4 |       0.093 |
| Kevin Grevey       |      1975 |   15246 |    26.4 |      0.083 |    1625 |     1.7 |      0.05  |     33.2 |       0.094 |
| Tracy Murray       |      1992 |   13207 |    25.3 |      0.092 |     103 |     0.6 |      0.28  |     27.7 |       0.1   |
| T.J. Leaf          |      2017 |    1238 |     2.7 |      0.105 |      21 |     0   |      0     |      2.7 |       0.103 |
| Vern Fleming       |      1984 |   24721 |    52.1 |      0.101 |     755 |     1.1 |      0.07  |     56.5 |       0.106 |
| J.R. Smith         |      2004 |   28355 |    50   |      0.085 |    3909 |     6   |      0.074 |     74   |       0.11  |
| Dalen Terry        |      2022 |     214 |     0.5 |      0.112 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      0.5 |       0.112 |
| Eric Bledsoe       |      2010 |   23343 |    51.6 |      0.106 |    1201 |     2.1 |      0.084 |     60   |       0.117 |
| Theo Ratliff       |      1995 |   26855 |    62.1 |      0.111 |     873 |     1.9 |      0.104 |     69.7 |       0.121 |
| Goga Bitadze       |      2019 |    2675 |     6.8 |      0.122 |       0 |     0   |      0     |      6.8 |       0.122 |
| Terrence Jones     |      2012 |    6832 |    17   |      0.119 |     574 |     0.7 |      0.059 |     19.8 |       0.128 |
| Reggie King        |      1979 |   11345 |    24.8 |      0.105 |     788 |     2.2 |      0.134 |     33.6 |       0.133 |
| James Posey        |      1999 |   25778 |    57.1 |      0.106 |    1672 |     4.9 |      0.141 |     76.7 |       0.134 |
| Mark Jackson       |      1987 |   44763 |   103.5 |      0.111 |    3776 |     8.3 |      0.106 |    136.7 |       0.135 |
| Ty Lawson          |      2009 |   17499 |    43   |      0.118 |     933 |     2.4 |      0.123 |     52.6 |       0.137 |
| Calvin Murphy      |      1970 |   30607 |    84.1 |      0.132 |    1660 |     3.5 |      0.101 |     98.1 |       0.146 |
| Joe Dumars         |      1985 |   35139 |    86.2 |      0.118 |    4097 |    10.1 |      0.118 |    126.6 |       0.155 |
| B.J. Armstrong     |      1989 |   18979 |    48   |      0.121 |    2364 |     5.9 |      0.12  |     71.6 |       0.161 |
| Ricky Pierce       |      1982 |   27082 |    82.7 |      0.147 |    2656 |     4.7 |      0.085 |    101.5 |       0.164 |
| JaVale McGee       |      2008 |   16806 |    48.5 |      0.139 |     916 |     3.3 |      0.173 |     61.7 |       0.167 |
| David West         |      2003 |   29144 |    86   |      0.142 |    3138 |     7.8 |      0.119 |    117.2 |       0.174 |
+--------------------+-----------+---------+---------+------------+---------+---------+------------+----------+-------------+

Sam Dekker is the average in weighted_win_shares per 48.

[contract]

I still cannot believe we had an off-season where we gave Lowry 3/85 and Duncan 5/90. That 2021 offseason is the stuff of nightmares.

And yet they've made it to the ECF twice and an NBA Finals since doing that. Picking and choosing this stuff seems silly when you don't take into account the overall success the team has garnered within the duration of those deals. And I say this as someone who absolutely hated the Duncan deal but he was a big part of why they made the run they did this post season.

I certainly think those guys will be on the move this off-season but it's kind of crazy to consider their deals "nightmares" understanding what the team accomplished.

They were not a big part. Both guys averaged 9ppg this past postseason. Did they have some positive games? Sure. But that's pretty much any player that gets significant playing time on a team that keeps winning. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut now and then.

If all engines fall off a plane in flight, but the plane lands safely at it's destination, does that mean there wasn't some sort of engineering or maintenance incompetence?

[CrossOver]

They accomplished what they did despite Robinson and Lowry. Overall team success doesn’t erase terrible financial moves/cap management. And that’s not even considering how much those deals have hamstrung our roster construction and ability to make moves since.

Duncan and Lowry were big contributors in this years post season so no, they didn't do it in spite of them. It's not hard to look at this stuff objectively. I know Duncan and Kyle are polarizing players because of their regular season play, or lack thereof, but they were huge contributors in the playoffs.

Evidently it is - both guys put up 9 points per game in the playoffs and were bench players.

18ppg for $43.8M in contracts is terrible value. They're 3rd and 4th on the team in salary and you could argue that maybe one of them was top 5 on the team in terms of playoff importance (Jimmy, Bam, Caleb, Gabe then Lowry/Robinson/Love in some order). This is also not considering the negative value of their contracts and the implication that has on team-building and additions when considering the 2nd apron.

Let's use a little bit of nuance here instead of "team=good, thus every player and contract on team=good."

Duncan had the best net rating on the team in the post season and Kyle was good in every series apart from Boston basically. You want to get caught up on Kyle's deal, fine. Explain what other PG target in 2021 were the Heat suppose to acquire to improve the team? Mostly everyone was onboard with going after Lowry.

[Timantha]

Watch on YouTube

Same vibes as Scoot convincing Dame to stay earlier

[contract]

Duncan and Lowry were big contributors in this years post season so no, they didn't do it in spite of them. It's not hard to look at this stuff objectively. I know Duncan and Kyle are polarizing players because of their regular season play, or lack thereof, but they were huge contributors in the playoffs.

Evidently it is - both guys put up 9 points per game in the playoffs and were bench players.

18ppg for $43.8M in contracts is terrible value. They're 3rd and 4th on the team in salary and you could argue that maybe one of them was top 5 on the team in terms of playoff importance (Jimmy, Bam, Caleb, Gabe then Lowry/Robinson/Love in some order). This is also not considering the negative value of their contracts and the implication that has on team-building and additions when considering the 2nd apron.

Let's use a little bit of nuance here instead of "team=good, thus every player and contract on team=good."

Duncan had the best net rating on the team in the post season and Kyle was good in every series apart from Boston basically. You want to get caught up on Kyle's deal, fine. Explain what other PG target in 2021 were the Heat suppose to acquire to improve the team? Mostly everyone was onboard with going after Lowry.

And mostly everyone was wrong. But mostly nobody gets paid to get it right.

[heatlejuice]

The last time the fan base was happy overall with our picks was Winslow and J Rich, I’ll trust the FO knows what they’re doing

[Kobewade11]

Read on Twitter

Basically just over a week

Nah, Bam "The Recruiter" needs to tell his boy he's got till this weekend to make his mind up and then we move on.