The Anthony Black Thread

[Petre1978]

He is. That's that's all he has ever played. When we drafted Franz, 80% of the board thought he was a PF because of his height.

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I don't know what position he did play, but his numbers don't tell me he was even PG at highschool. Guy averaged 16 ppg on 3,5 apg.
At college he averaged 3,9 apg. And at those youth level best player is defacto "Playmaker" because coach just wants ball in hands of it's best player regardless what his skillset is.

During McDonalds all american game he wasn't starting PG nor backup PG, rather backup SF. To Nick Smith and Amir Bailey.

Regardless where he plays, he needs to become at least bit of treat to shoot to have sucess.

Black shot just 23.1 percent on non-restricted area paint attempts and 30.0 percent on midrange jumpers.

This won't cut it even if you are C in modern era.

He won the EYBL MVP. He averaged 20 ppg and 8 apg. I believe Sharpe, Nick Smith, and Brandon Miller were first team.

https://www.theseasonticket.com/news_article/show/1181257

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Thank you for the link my friend!
Very interesting!

I appreciate it!

[thelead]

This kid is going to be amazing in the two-man game with Paolo and Franz.

[yoyojw17]

Whelp..... let's see what happen when he takes a step back and focuses on one sport and not 3 or 4. hahah

Welcome to the Magic!

[eyriq]

Interesting points:
1. He initially needs to be behind a veteran PG who will push him
2. 2nd team All Rookie potential
3. One or two all-star appearances in his career
4. Needs shooters around him
5. He is a PG
6. Has off-ball potential

Watch on YouTube

[Skin]

Roster construction reasons why we drafted Black & Howard (outside of hoping they become stars):

1. Enables the Magic to release Gary Harris - This is all but a certainty now, but most of us were already expecting it to happen. With the additions of Black and Howard, the minutes for Harris have vanished. If we resign Harris now and bury our young guys I will laugh hysterically and bring out the pitchforks for WeHam.

2. Cole Anthony's days as a 6th man are gone. You could say that Howard is replacing Harris and we will still need Cole to play the role of 6th man, but I don't see it. Not unless injury occurs. Black is going to eat into his minutes as the first PG off the bench. Howard and Suggs will share the majority of the 48 minutes at SG. Cole is being iced the **** out.

These are the 2 highest lineup minutes that Cole played in a 2 person backcourt combination last year.

Anthony / Suggs - 527 min played together last year - Not gonna get anything close to that this year.
Fultz / Anthony - 440 min played together last year - This is the pairing that will fade unless there is an injury. Suggs and Howard simply need to develop.

The one thing that would break this is if Cole Anthony beats out Fultz for the starting role or Fultz/Black are hurt. Cole is the 3rd PG and 3rd SG now.

3. Lowers the Extension money that they will be willing to give Anthony. I don't think there is a trade market for him that is anything beyond a future 2nd round pick or using him in a bigger package as salary filler. We got what we needed to out of a 15th pick. See ya.

4. Lowers the Extension money that they will be willing to give Fultz. I think the fears of the Magic giving Fultz a deal in the $25M+ AAV range are gonzo. Look to him to get a deal more similar to Wendell Carter. Fultz just doesn't have the leverage to command more.

[basketballRob]

Interesting points:
1. He initially needs to be behind a veteran PG who will push him
2. 2nd team All Rookie potential
3. One or two all-star appearances in his career
4. Needs shooters around him
5. He is a PG
6. Has off-ball potential

Watch on YouTube

Oglesby had Paolo going #1 way before last season's draft.

He thinks AB is definitely a starting PG in the league and could make 1-2 all-star teams.

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[eyriq]

Roster construction reasons why we drafted Black & Howard (outside of hoping they become stars):

1. Enables the Magic to release Gary Harris - This is all but a certainty now, but most of us were already expecting it to happen. With the additions of Black and Howard, the minutes for Harris have vanished. If we resign Harris now and bury our young guys I will laugh hysterically and bring out the pitchforks for WeHam.

2. Cole Anthony's days as a 6th man are gone. You could say that Howard is replacing Harris and we will still need Cole to play the role of 6th man, but I don't see it. Not unless injury occurs. Black is going to eat into his minutes as the first PG off the bench. Howard and Suggs will share the majority of the 48 minutes at SG. Cole is being iced the **** out.

These are the 2 highest lineup minutes that Cole played in a 2 person backcourt combination last year.

Anthony / Suggs - 527 min played together last year - Not gonna get anything close to that this year.
Fultz / Anthony - 440 min played together last year - This is the pairing that will fade unless there is an injury. Suggs and Howard simply need to develop.

The one thing that would break this is if Cole Anthony beats out Fultz for the starting role or Fultz/Black are hurt. Cole is the 3rd PG and 3rd SG now.

3. Lowers the Extension money that they will be willing to give Anthony. I don't think there is a trade market for him that is anything beyond a future 2nd round pick or using him in a bigger package as salary filler. We got what we needed to out of a 15th pick. See ya.

4. Lowers the Extension money that they will be willing to give Fultz. I think the fears of the Magic giving Fultz a deal in the $25M+ AAV range are gonzo. Look to him to get a deal more similar to Wendell Carter. Fultz just doesn't have the leverage to command more.

Whoa, this hits like cold water. I think you've nailed the dynamics here. Really interesting to think about the 2 person backcourt combinations. Great work there.

[Skin]

This kid is going to be amazing in the two-man game with Paolo and Franz.

This is imaginary. Paolo and Franz like having the ball in their hands and to their credit, a lot of people give them props for being somewhat playmakers. Unless that changes and Paolo and Franz start to play more off the ball, then Black is gonna face the same thing Fultz has faced... with himself having to play off Paolo and Franz whenever they are the primary ball handlers. This is why it is CRITICAL for Black to be able to knock down 3s. If he becomes that, he will be everything we need and this pick will enshrine Weltman in the Magic HOF when we win a championship. I'm willing to hold out hope for that though.

[Skin]

Interesting points:
1. He initially needs to be behind a veteran PG who will push him
2. 2nd team All Rookie potential
3. One or two all-star appearances in his career
4. Needs shooters around him
5. He is a PG
6. Has off-ball potential

Watch on YouTube

Oglesby had Paolo going #1 way before last season's draft.

He thinks AB is definitely a starting PG in the league and could make 1-2 all-star teams.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Black is NOT going to have a veteran PG to mentor him and baby him into the NBA. He is going to have Fultz and Anthony clawing against him for every minute. This is basketball cannibalism at it's finest that WeHam have created here. I hope Black rises to the challenge. He's going to have to learn how to go left at the very least. He's labeling himself as a late bloomer. Let's hope so because he hasn't proven anything yet.

[IllMagic04]

This kid is going to be amazing in the two-man game with Paolo and Franz.

This is imaginary. Paolo and Franz like having the ball in their hands and to their credit, a lot of people give them props for being somewhat playmakers. Unless that changes and Paolo and Franz start to play more off the ball, then Black is gonna face the same thing Fultz has faced... with himself having to play off Paolo and Franz whenever they are the primary ball handlers. This is why it is CRITICAL for Black to be able to knock down 3s. If he becomes that, he will be everything we need and this pick will enshrine Weltman in the Magic HOF when we win a championship. I'm willing to hold out hope for that though.

Exactly this. Its not a good fit. Paolo has playmaking skills we still cant unlock cause he's surounded by non shooters. If Black cant learn how to shoot ( Im so tired of learn how to shoot players) this aint gonna work unless this kid is gonna be so great that we look to move from Paolo and build the team around him.

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[Knightro]

That’s an oversimplified way of looking at offense. There’s more to offense than shooting, and there’s more to playing without the ball than standing in the corner.

There are ways to punish sagging defenses that don’t involve spotting up—driving, cutting, swinging the ball for weakside screen-and-rolls—so to put such an emphasis on shooting is a mistake to me.

A Fultz-Black duo should be able to attack the basket and make plays for others, and they can score without needing the ball, so it’s premature to assume they can’t work together.

It's really not though. NBA offense is by nature very simplistic. The whole name of the game is beating the initial defender by whatever means (iso, pick and roll, hand off, post up, whatever it is) to create an advantageous situation and then moving the ball to the open player when the help defenders rotate.

Like the majority of NBA offense only involves 1 or 2 players at a time. When you have players who can shoot well off movement, you'll get a third guy in the action as an off ball screener, but generally it's 1-2 guys working action and 3 and sometimes even 4 guys spotting up behind the 3PT line or 3 spotting up and 1 in the dunker spot.

And no matter what action you're running, if you have a total zero spotting up behind the arc - someone the defense feels comfortable helping off without fear of being punished with a made 3 pointer - that action is going to be much more challenging to accomplish.

If you have two zeros spotting up, it's obviously even harder.

I just don't see a scenario where Fultz and Black have success as a tandem next season unless one of them shooting so far beyond what anyone could reasonably expect from 3PT range.

[basketballRob]

Interesting points:
1. He initially needs to be behind a veteran PG who will push him
2. 2nd team All Rookie potential
3. One or two all-star appearances in his career
4. Needs shooters around him
5. He is a PG
6. Has off-ball potential

Watch on YouTube

Oglesby had Paolo going #1 way before last season's draft.

He thinks AB is definitely a starting PG in the league and could make 1-2 all-star teams.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Black is NOT going to have a veteran PG to mentor him and baby him into the NBA. He is going to have Fultz and Anthony clawing against him for every minute. This is basketball cannibalism at it's finest that WeHam have created here. I hope Black rises to the challenge. He's going to have to learn how to go left at the very least. He's labeling himself as a late bloomer. Let's hope so because he hasn't proven anything yet.

Going left was a big knock on Franz before the draft, too.

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[thelead]

This kid is going to be amazing in the two-man game with Paolo and Franz.

This is imaginary. Paolo and Franz like having the ball in their hands and to their credit, a lot of people give them props for being somewhat playmakers. Unless that changes and Paolo and Franz start to play more off the ball, then Black is gonna face the same thing Fultz has faced... with himself having to play off Paolo and Franz whenever they are the primary ball handlers. This is why it is CRITICAL for Black to be able to knock down 3s. If he becomes that, he will be everything we need and this pick will enshrine Weltman in the Magic HOF when we win a championship. I'm willing to hold out hope for that though.

Exactly this. Its not a good fit. Paolo has playmaking skills we still cant unlock cause he's surounded by non shooters. If Black cant learn how to shoot ( Im so tired of learn how to shoot players) this aint gonna work unless this kid is gonna be so great that we look to move from Paolo and build the team around him.

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His height helps tremendously. We shall see.

[Landshark]

Black is BPA at 6 and only 19 years old. He's not going to be the same player by his second contract. Maybe he'll fit better by then with more development, maybe we'll have adjusted the roster through trades/FA (most likely both).

Plus, this is Year 3 of the rebuild. It's expected that we have young players at every position (and already started removing excess guys like Bamba and RJ). Looking at the guys available at #6, Idk who would be a perfect fit:

Cam Whitmore: "Not a polished shooter. Positionally redundant with Suggs."
Taylor Hendricks: "No chance of starting since he plays the same position as Paolo"
Jarace Walker: "Bad shooter and positionally redundant with Paolo."
Bilal/Cason/Bufkin/etc.: "Adds to a logjam of guards and a reach."

I feel like nothing besides trading down for Dick would've satisfied our fanbase.

[Skybox]

I don't care about the lift on his shot...he only needs to be able to punish teams that back off and dare him. We don't have that now. That's what Harris does...he doesn't hunt shots, he takes only what he's given...so he's efficient but not very impactful.

I want Black as our starting PG and we need Herro or Simons at SG next to him...Suggs and Anthony have clear lanes to playing time if their spot up shooting continues to improve. Fultz has a clear lane to another team, IMO. I assume Black's not ready to take over yet, so I'd guess Fultz has a very good season and is moved at the trade deadline as Black's very similar, but bigger and better at everything -even if shooting is a weakness for both. We need a vet scorer in FA/trade and we have the pieces to get one (particularly one who's value is presently in question like Simons and Herro). POR and MIA are targeting a big move and we have the cap space and picks to help facilitate-and grab what we want, in the process.

you have to give this up..or are magic getting first rd picks to take them now with your trades?

I don't know what you're talking about (as usual)...are those guys negative values? are you saying those teams should pay us to take their 23 year old 20ppg scoring guards who can shoot from downtown at a high volume? OR...are you coming at it like the other genius who thinks this year's picks are the only ones that will ever have value?

[J the Drafter]

That’s an oversimplified way of looking at offense. There’s more to offense than shooting, and there’s more to playing without the ball than standing in the corner.

There are ways to punish sagging defenses that don’t involve spotting up—driving, cutting, swinging the ball for weakside screen-and-rolls—so to put such an emphasis on shooting is a mistake to me.

A Fultz-Black duo should be able to attack the basket and make plays for others, and they can score without needing the ball, so it’s premature to assume they can’t work together.

It's really not though. NBA offense is by nature very simplistic. The whole name of the game is beating the initial defender by whatever means (iso, pick and roll, hand off, post up, whatever it is) to create an advantageous situation and then moving the ball to the open player when the help defenders rotate.

Like the majority of NBA offense only involves 1 or 2 players at a time. When you have players who can shoot well off movement, you'll get a third guy in the action as an off ball screener, but generally it's 1-2 guys working action and 3 and sometimes even 4 guys spotting up behind the 3PT line or 3 spotting up and 1 in the dunker spot.

And no matter what action you're running, if you have a total zero spotting up behind the arc - someone the defense feels comfortable helping off without fear of being punished with a made 3 pointer - that action is going to be much more challenging to accomplish.

If you have two zeros spotting up, it's obviously even harder.

I just don't see a scenario where Fultz and Black have success as a tandem next season unless one of them shooting so far beyond what anyone could reasonably expect from 3PT range.

Offense isn’t just about what the player with the ball is doing (or about what the ballhandler and screener are doing). The players on the weakside should be doing things too. One of those things is spotting up but there’s also cutting, screening and grabbing post position.

You’re afraid that if Fultz and Black are on the court together, one of them will be relegated to standing behind the three point while the other one runs the offense, thus wasting one player’s talents while the other one tries to operate against an extra defender, correct?

My vision is of two playmakers who can force defenses to divide their attention between which ball-handler to set up against, who can put each other in good positions to make plays, and who can rescue each other if the first play is stifled.

[Skybox]

I disagree with the argument that Fultz and Black can’t play together. They can both drive and make plays off those drives (scoring and passing) and they can both cut without the ball. Fultz demands attention in the midrange too. Both of them can score without spotting up or dominating the ball. I wouldn’t be so quick to treat this like a Fultz-or-Black situation.

You might be the only person who feels this way.

It's extremely difficult to have a good offense with one bad/non shooter. With two it's practically impossible.

our frontcourt isn't exactly lighting it up from outside either...in case that was the escape clause

[IllMagic04]

That’s an oversimplified way of looking at offense. There’s more to offense than shooting, and there’s more to playing without the ball than standing in the corner.

There are ways to punish sagging defenses that don’t involve spotting up—driving, cutting, swinging the ball for weakside screen-and-rolls—so to put such an emphasis on shooting is a mistake to me.

A Fultz-Black duo should be able to attack the basket and make plays for others, and they can score without needing the ball, so it’s premature to assume they can’t work together.

It's really not though. NBA offense is by nature very simplistic. The whole name of the game is beating the initial defender by whatever means (iso, pick and roll, hand off, post up, whatever it is) to create an advantageous situation and then moving the ball to the open player when the help defenders rotate.

Like the majority of NBA offense only involves 1 or 2 players at a time. When you have players who can shoot well off movement, you'll get a third guy in the action as an off ball screener, but generally it's 1-2 guys working action and 3 and sometimes even 4 guys spotting up behind the 3PT line or 3 spotting up and 1 in the dunker spot.

And no matter what action you're running, if you have a total zero spotting up behind the arc - someone the defense feels comfortable helping off without fear of being punished with a made 3 pointer - that action is going to be much more challenging to accomplish.

If you have two zeros spotting up, it's obviously even harder.

I just don't see a scenario where Fultz and Black have success as a tandem next season unless one of them shooting so far beyond what anyone could reasonably expect from 3PT range.

Offense isn’t just about what the player with the ball is doing (or about what the ballhandler and screener are doing). The players on the weakside should be doing things too. One of those things is spotting up but there’s also cutting, screening and grabbing post position.

You’re afraid that if Fultz and Black are on the court together, one of them will be relegated to standing behind the three point while the other one runs the offense, thus wasting one player’s talents while the other one tries to operate against an extra defender, correct?

My vision is of two playmakers who can force defenses to divide their attention between which ball-handler to set up against, who can put each other in good positions to make plays, and who can rescue each other if the first play is stifled.

But you still have 2 perimiter players on the floor whom defenders can leave with no fear. Its tough to score consistently in todays game when the floor is shruken like that. Back in the day you could do it cause there was no zone allowed.

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[arsenal6106]

https://youtu.be/pZkMlWZrLhk

The first 5 mins of this video sums up this forum on AB.

[yoyojw17]

I disagree with the argument that Fultz and Black can’t play together. They can both drive and make plays off those drives (scoring and passing) and they can both cut without the ball. Fultz demands attention in the midrange too. Both of them can score without spotting up or dominating the ball. I wouldn’t be so quick to treat this like a Fultz-or-Black situation.

You might be the only person who feels this way.

It's extremely difficult to have a good offense with one bad/non shooter. With two it's practically impossible.

our frontcourt isn't exactly lighting it up from outside either...in case that was the escape clause

Well... fraz was above average... and Carter was about league average. Paulo.... wellllll if we look at his last 17 games... there is hope.

Suggs showed improvements... so did cole. Bol bol lost his confidence... but if stella can do it... so could he.haha. Caleb was torching it.... till he wasn't.

we will see where this all leads! Oh and don't forget the Fultz phoenix rising from the ashes. lol