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Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#901 » by Hello Brooklyn » Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:38 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:If Marks/Tsai turn down 3rd overall/Simons/future picks or swaps, and/or Sharpe for Bridges, this is probably going to be one of those, "What the :censored: were they thinking?!", conversations in a few years. And I say that believing Bridges will probably be a 22/5/3 guy with good defense the rest of his prime.

This is going to be another disappointing domino effect move. They're going to blow all the future draft assets on someone like Lillard or KAT, add some expensive salary dump guy next season and wind up a pretender contender for a few years and watch whoever they would have drafted at 3rd overall this year, and at least one of those future picks become young studs.


It depends on what you think of Bridges.

I see him being a 25/5 guy with elite defense and star. He can still get a lot better because hes just starting to realize his offensive potential.

Meanwhile trading him for Scoot would force us into a full rebuild. With no way of keeping our picks.

Even if Scoot is good it will take him 3-4 years to become an all star level player.

To me the Nets want to add another star with Bridges and compete in the next few years.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#902 » by Hello Brooklyn » Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:42 pm

To me Luka is a ticking time bomb.

Dallas looks like a disaster. They won't be good enough to compete. Kyrie will cause more issues.

The question is where will he want to be?

The Nets have to position themselves to be a decent playoff team to appeal to Luka.

To me he looks at LA or NY. LeBron is too old. Clippers have nothing.

Knicks look very good on paper. But they don't have the draft assets we do.

I would give up all the Phoenix picks if we could pair Luka with Bridges and Claxton. To me that will easily be a title contender.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#903 » by Claud » Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:20 pm

Simons dude from Portland makes more than Bridges per year lol.

Bridges has one of the best contracts in the NBA when you consider production + talent + durability + contract.

No way in hell we trade him unless a superstar is coming back.

He doesn't even have to be the best or even 2nd best player on this roster considering how much he makes.

He ain't the problem.

Move Ben Simmons, Harris, Dinwiddie and make space for that star player.

Bridges is a excellent piece to the puzzle.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#904 » by TheNetsFan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:19 pm

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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#905 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:02 pm

Wait til it comes out that Portland turned down Brandon Ingram or KAT for the 3rd overall, Simons or Nurk and a pick or two extra.

Dame is looking at the front door.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#906 » by Netaman » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:30 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Wait til it comes out that Portland turned down Brandon Ingram or KAT for the 3rd overall, Simons or Nurk and a pick or two extra.

Dame is looking at the front door.

Really don’t know what Portland is trying to do except forcing him to give them pr cover for by making a public trade request.

How do they even expect scoot, lillard, simons, sharpe to coexist? After the Poole deal Simons has to be an underwater asset.


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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#907 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:31 pm

Netaman wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Wait til it comes out that Portland turned down Brandon Ingram or KAT for the 3rd overall, Simons or Nurk and a pick or two extra.

Dame is looking at the front door.

Really don’t know what Portland is trying to do except forcing him to give them pr cover for by making a public trade request.

How do they even expect scoot, lillard, simons, sharpe to coexist? After the Poole deal Simons has to be an underwater asset.


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They’re pretty much trying to force Dame’s hand I guess, or just know he’s loyal to such a fault they’re going to continue rebuilding with him.

They made some half hearted attempts to trade for a running mate this week, but if the reports are true and they wouldn’t include Sharpe or future picks, it was all fake hustle.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#908 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:37 pm

Still think there’s a good chance Trae Young is traded by next summer and good chance it’s to us.

He actually makes a lot of sense here depending on the outgoing players and what our cap would look like for the summer of ‘25.

Can see him fitting on a roster like this too, so many defenders up and down the lineup who can cover for him, along with finishers and shooters, and Bridges works so well off ball with low usage compared to his role and impact.

The fit would be undeniable with a guy like Giannis as well.

Trae
Bridges
Remaining 3&D
Giannis
Clax or even Clowney

Lethal.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#909 » by Netaman » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:00 pm

the hawks do seem at a pivot point to decide on either trae or murray. supposedly their ownership has mandated they get under the luxury tax as well. we know they've shopped collins and some others hard but if there were simple deals for those guys they'd be done already.

I know it seems obvious to the outside for the nets to get out of being a repeater, but if Tsai is willing to keep spending the nets will be able to pickup talent at a discount. possibly young-ish talent with upside too. i think murray fits into the KD TE because he only has 17.7m guaranteed. he or suggs would be somewhere in the plan B or C for me if lillard doesn't go there way.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#910 » by Netaman » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:08 pm

Just double checked and trade exceptions do count against the guaranteed salary not total salary, so the KD trade exception will fit to bring in Murray if they want.

This would be separate deals functionally, but practically speaking would anyone else do this?

Cam Thomas, Philly 2027, KD TE
for
Murray

hawks have bufkin and young, cam would give them a little more of a traditional scorer than another on the ball option. pure cap savings of 15m+lux tax is = to a frp.

i think that's my plan b if lillard doesnt happen over FVV.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#911 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:29 pm

Netaman wrote:Just double checked and trade exceptions do count against the guaranteed salary not total salary, so the KD trade exception will fit to bring in Murray if they want.

This would be separate deals functionally, but practically speaking would anyone else do this?

Cam Thomas, Philly 2027, KD TE
for
Murray

hawks have bufkin and young, cam would give them a little more of a traditional scorer than another on the ball option. pure cap savings of 15m+lux tax is = to a frp.

i think that's my plan b if lillard doesnt happen over FVV.

So first thing, just my opinion, but Murray is not a guy I'd currently target. He's wildly inefficient and isn't a big floor raiser on his own. He's a final piece kind of player, but the problem is he has a #1/2 option mentality.

He's Jrue Holiday with Russel Westbrook's mindset.


Second, with that being said, I don't think that Philly pick can ever be the centerpiece to any trade, unless it's the 25-26 season, mid-season and it looks like that pick will exactly fall into that 9-19 range, where it conveys without a jump, but isn't so late it's a throw-in. As of now, it looks more likely it becomes a 2nd round pick, or a ho hum early 20's kind of pick.

Cam Thomas is also just a sweetener, not a real deal asset.

Don't believe Murray would command a ton of value, but a little something better than the above.


I don't love Trae, but at this point he's becoming underrated. I see his huge salary and playoff struggles, he usually starts seasons off slow, he has issues with defense for sure, but man does he do some damage and he's only 24. He's a lock top 30 player who just needs a few things tightened up in his game to become a perennial top 15-20 guy.

He definitely dominates the ball too much, but who else should he share with on the rosters he's been on? He definitely needs to dig in on D more, but he's legitimately shown he's beginning to finally buy-in to that concept lately. He needs to work on his shot selection as well, but when he's on fire, he's bombing. He commits a lot of turnovers, but he also has to have a uber high usage rate right now and with all the assists, it's not like his A/TO ratio is awful.

With that contract, I could see him coming on the cheap tbh. Like Simmons/Dinwiddie/Joe Harris/Cam T/one of the later Phoenix picks/Philly pick for him and one of John Collins or DeAndre Hunter.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#912 » by Netaman » Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:30 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Netaman wrote:Just double checked and trade exceptions do count against the guaranteed salary not total salary, so the KD trade exception will fit to bring in Murray if they want.

This would be separate deals functionally, but practically speaking would anyone else do this?

Cam Thomas, Philly 2027, KD TE
for
Murray

hawks have bufkin and young, cam would give them a little more of a traditional scorer than another on the ball option. pure cap savings of 15m+lux tax is = to a frp.

i think that's my plan b if lillard doesnt happen over FVV.

So first thing, just my opinion, but Murray is not a guy I'd currently target. He's wildly inefficient and isn't a big floor raiser on his own. He's a final piece kind of player, but the problem is he has a #1/2 option mentality.

He's Jrue Holiday with Russel Westbrook's mindset.


Second, with that being said, I don't think that Philly pick can ever be the centerpiece to any trade, unless it's the 25-26 season, mid-season and it looks like that pick will exactly fall into that 9-19 range, where it conveys without a jump, but isn't so late it's a throw-in. As of now, it looks more likely it becomes a 2nd round pick, or a ho hum early 20's kind of pick.

Cam Thomas is also just a sweetener, not a real deal asset.

Don't believe Murray would command a ton of value, but a little something better than the above.


I don't love Trae, but at this point he's becoming underrated. I see his huge salary and playoff struggles, he usually starts seasons off slow, he has issues with defense for sure, but man does he do some damage and he's only 24. He's a lock top 30 player who just needs a few things tightened up in his game to become a perennial top 15-20 guy.

He definitely dominates the ball too much, but who else should he share with on the rosters he's been on? He definitely needs to dig in on D more, but he's legitimately shown he's beginning to finally buy-in to that concept lately. He needs to work on his shot selection as well, but when he's on fire, he's bombing. He commits a lot of turnovers, but he also has to have a uber high usage rate right now and with all the assists, it's not like his A/TO ratio is awful.

With that contract, I could see him coming on the cheap tbh. Like Simmons/Dinwiddie/Joe Harris/Cam T/one of the later Phoenix picks/Philly pick for him and one of John Collins or DeAndre Hunter.


I like Trae im just guessing Hawks will keep him over Murray for now.

I like Murray a little more than you I think, and I think we need to judge him more off what he was looking like in SA before the Hawks tried to play him with Trae which was a bad fit. This Net roster is desperate for a guy with a #1/2 mentality better than Dinwiddie and I think Murray checks that box. And he is disruptive on D. I think in the right situation he can bloom the way Derrick White has, with a much higher ceiling.

I also agree the Philly pick is weak, which is why that's the one id trade. With just 1 year left off a bad season I don't see Murray having very much value right now. Could be wrong about that and if so maybe I'd also be willing to deal phoenix 2025 but again that's only if lillard is already off the table.

this is from one of the more plugged in miami beats - which reads to me like a clear "portland doesn't want herro":

Read on Twitter


if i was guessing right now i think nets will end up with lillard for expirings and all phoenix picks.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#913 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Jun 24, 2023 8:38 pm

Netaman wrote:this is from one of the more plugged in miami beats - which reads to me like a clear "portland doesn't want herro":

Read on Twitter


if i was guessing right now i think nets will end up with lillard for expirings and all phoenix picks.

So, I still think Dame is more likely to wind up in Miami. Or some out of nowhere team like Sacto.

But assuming he is dealt here, I still hold out hope we only send 2 of the 4 premium picks we hold and one of them is the '25 Phoenix pick.

I also assume and fear, there will be a Clax for Nurk swap, hence one of the reasons for drafting Clowney.

I think there will some salary dumped on us, namely Nurkic. That swap, assuming Clax is outgoing, probably takes at least one of the premium picks off the table.

The thing is though, Dame can't be traded before July 9th at this point, as far as I've read. And Grant will be either re-signed or let to walk, or S&T'd before then. I guess that could be telling, because I don't think Portland is going to want to sign him to a fat deal and then deal Dame a week later.

I also think, even though it was reported by someone on here that they heard Dame would want to play with Simmons, but Ben might be Portland bound if the deal has us taking Nurk, but maybe not.

My guess for the main pieces of a final deal, if Dame is sent here is one of the two:

Dame
Nurkic
Little

for

Clax
Cam T
Harris
Simmons
'25 Phoenix 1st
'25 Brooklyn 1st
'27 Philly 1st
'29 Phoenix 1st


Or


Dame

for

Dinwiddie
Harris
Cam T
'25 Phoenix 1st
'25 Brooklyn 1st
'27 Philly 1st
'27 Phoenix 1st
'29 Phoenix 1st or Dallas 1st(worse of)
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#914 » by Netaman » Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:05 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
My guess for the main pieces of a final deal, if Dame is sent here is one of the two:

Dame
Nurkic
Little

for

Clax
Cam T
Harris
Simmons
'25 Phoenix 1st
'25 Brooklyn 1st
'27 Philly 1st
'29 Phoenix 1st


Or


Dame

for

Dinwiddie
Harris
Cam T
'25 Phoenix 1st
'25 Brooklyn 1st
'27 Philly 1st
'27 Phoenix 1st
'29 Phoenix 1st or Dallas 1st(worse of)


Few thoughts:

1. don't think portland will have interest in simmons
2. i dont think the nets would include claxton and since he's a FA to be dont see much interest from portland
3. if they want to dump nurkic, an option would be the KD TPE, he could fit into that straight out, but the nets have enough matching salary even without simmons/clax and keep the TPE for something else.
4. i think your picks are generally pretty close, i dont know which ones they pick but i expect 4 or 5 outgoing but i asked the portland fans and they liked the idea of diversifying and not taking all phoenix picks.
5. also wouldn't surprise me to see a 3rd team roped in to take on DFS or Royce and send a meh 2024 first to Portland.

add all that up and here's something I could see (note the indiana pick would be the 2024 denver FRP they just acquired):

Image

after this trade and a cam johnson 4x21m they would have 12 guys under contract and be about 5m under the apron for 1 or 2 depth signings.

Lillard / Sumner
Royce / Simmons / Cam T
Bridges / Whitehead
Cam J / Clowney
Claxton / Nurkic / Sharpe
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#915 » by Tha King » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:12 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Netaman wrote:Just double checked and trade exceptions do count against the guaranteed salary not total salary, so the KD trade exception will fit to bring in Murray if they want.

This would be separate deals functionally, but practically speaking would anyone else do this?

Cam Thomas, Philly 2027, KD TE
for
Murray

hawks have bufkin and young, cam would give them a little more of a traditional scorer than another on the ball option. pure cap savings of 15m+lux tax is = to a frp.

i think that's my plan b if lillard doesnt happen over FVV.

So first thing, just my opinion, but Murray is not a guy I'd currently target. He's wildly inefficient and isn't a big floor raiser on his own. He's a final piece kind of player, but the problem is he has a #1/2 option mentality.

He's Jrue Holiday with Russel Westbrook's mindset.


Second, with that being said, I don't think that Philly pick can ever be the centerpiece to any trade, unless it's the 25-26 season, mid-season and it looks like that pick will exactly fall into that 9-19 range, where it conveys without a jump, but isn't so late it's a throw-in. As of now, it looks more likely it becomes a 2nd round pick, or a ho hum early 20's kind of pick.

Cam Thomas is also just a sweetener, not a real deal asset.

Don't believe Murray would command a ton of value, but a little something better than the above.


I don't love Trae, but at this point he's becoming underrated. I see his huge salary and playoff struggles, he usually starts seasons off slow, he has issues with defense for sure, but man does he do some damage and he's only 24. He's a lock top 30 player who just needs a few things tightened up in his game to become a perennial top 15-20 guy.

He definitely dominates the ball too much, but who else should he share with on the rosters he's been on? He definitely needs to dig in on D more, but he's legitimately shown he's beginning to finally buy-in to that concept lately. He needs to work on his shot selection as well, but when he's on fire, he's bombing. He commits a lot of turnovers, but he also has to have a uber high usage rate right now and with all the assists, it's not like his A/TO ratio is awful.

With that contract, I could see him coming on the cheap tbh. Like Simmons/Dinwiddie/Joe Harris/Cam T/one of the later Phoenix picks/Philly pick for him and one of John Collins or DeAndre Hunter.

On point across the board.

With Trae, I would even go as far as giving all the picks. This roster fits him perfectly and at the very least you can have a competitive team with some potential while you wait to regain picks.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#916 » by Tha King » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:22 pm

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#917 » by JKiddy » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:14 pm

I can see that trade happening if the Nets kept the Dallas 2029 or PHX 2027. The deal just has too many picks given up. Remember that they can be SUPER VALUABLE. One of them will be a potential HOF and another can be an All-Star. We have to be careful. Dame is not 25. He is 33. CHILL.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#918 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:48 pm

JKiddy wrote:I can see that trade happening if the Nets kept the Dallas 2029 or PHX 2027. The deal just has too many picks given up. Remember that they can be SUPER VALUABLE. One of them will be a potential HOF and another can be an All-Star. We have to be careful. Dame is not 25. He is 33. CHILL.

I don’t want to trade for him at all tbh. Was just discussing what I think it will look like if it happens, not what I want it to look like.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#919 » by TheNetsFan » Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:54 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Netaman wrote:this is from one of the more plugged in miami beats - which reads to me like a clear "portland doesn't want herro":

Read on Twitter


if i was guessing right now i think nets will end up with lillard for expirings and all phoenix picks.

So, I still think Dame is more likely to wind up in Miami. Or some out of nowhere team like Sacto.

But assuming he is dealt here, I still hold out hope we only send 2 of the 4 premium picks we hold and one of them is the '25 Phoenix pick.

I also assume and fear, there will be a Clax for Nurk swap, hence one of the reasons for drafting Clowney.

I think there will some salary dumped on us, namely Nurkic. That swap, assuming Clax is outgoing, probably takes at least one of the premium picks off the table.

The thing is though, Dame can't be traded before July 9th at this point, as far as I've read. And Grant will be either re-signed or let to walk, or S&T'd before then. I guess that could be telling, because I don't think Portland is going to want to sign him to a fat deal and then deal Dame a week later.

I also think, even though it was reported by someone on here that they heard Dame would want to play with Simmons, but Ben might be Portland bound if the deal has us taking Nurk, but maybe not.

My guess for the main pieces of a final deal, if Dame is sent here is one of the two:

Dame
Nurkic
Little

for

Clax
Cam T
Harris
Simmons
'25 Phoenix 1st
'25 Brooklyn 1st
'27 Philly 1st
'29 Phoenix 1st


Or


Dame

for

Dinwiddie
Harris
Cam T
'25 Phoenix 1st
'25 Brooklyn 1st
'27 Philly 1st
'27 Phoenix 1st
'29 Phoenix 1st or Dallas 1st(worse of)

We can't trade both '25 picks because we don't have a '24 or '26. I also don't see us offering more than 3-4 picks. Miami can offer 3, plus anything they can get a third team to give up for Herro (I doubt he fetches much). The picks we own are all more valuable than what Miami owns. Herro doesn't fit with Scoot, Simons and Sharpe there.

Ultimately, Dame should get the KD treatment. He picks one team, and Portland negotiates exclusively with that team. They owe him a lot more than we owed KD.
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Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#920 » by Papi_swav » Sun Jun 25, 2023 12:01 am

I'm not giving up more then 3 picks for Dame. If they want more then hang up I'm good.

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