Rate the Dick Pick

[billy_hoyle]

Yet some idiots will tell you this was a bad fit


If one wanted to be argumentative Cam was BPA but he obviously had a medical red flag.

With Wallace and Bilal off the board this is a pretty easy pick for the front office.

He is a bad fit, particularly with Barnes on defense. Both cannot guard quick players.

That is crazy.

Dick wasn't a terrible defender in college at all. He posted a 2.9 DBPM which is better than a lot of the so called better athletes in the draft.

He is also the PERFECT fit for Scottie on Offense. A big time shooter who also is a good instinctive cutter.

And when you look at the rest of the roster, we have plenty of defensive players that can help cover defensive mistakes. OG, Pascal, Yak, Precious, etc etc. Drafting a guy who projects to be an average defender with elite shooting is not a bad fit in any world.

I'm more worried about Fred's defenses fit than I am Dicks. We can hide a 2-3 easily enough. Hiding a bad defensive pg is where things get hard.

Ya. I think there's evidence that Dick might be a passable defender. But he might not be. He doesn't look laterally quick IMO. It's the one clear risk I have with him.

Scottie has been a pretty awful POA defender so far. You can't have too many of those in a lineup. It turns into a layup line quickly.

[bballsparkin]

Love it. I would have been happy with Bufkin or Podz too. Since Wallace and Lively were off the board I give it two thumbs up.

[C_Money]

He is a bad fit, particularly with Barnes on defense. Both cannot guard quick players.

That is crazy.

Dick wasn't a terrible defender in college at all. He posted a 2.9 DBPM which is better than a lot of the so called better athletes in the draft.

He is also the PERFECT fit for Scottie on Offense. A big time shooter who also is a good instinctive cutter.

And when you look at the rest of the roster, we have plenty of defensive players that can help cover defensive mistakes. OG, Pascal, Yak, Precious, etc etc. Drafting a guy who projects to be an average defender with elite shooting is not a bad fit in any world.

I'm more worried about Fred's defenses fit than I am Dicks. We can hide a 2-3 easily enough. Hiding a bad defensive pg is where things get hard.

Ya. I think there's evidence that Dick might be a passable defender. But he might not be. He doesn't look laterally quick IMO. It's the one clear risk I have with him.

Scottie has been a pretty awful POA defender so far. You can't have too many of those in a lineup. It turns into a layup line quickly.

Having Poeltl down low will help.

[S.W.A.N]

We took arguably the BPA who was also at a position of need. Tough not to be happy with that.

Yet some idiots will tell you this was a bad fit


If one wanted to be argumentative Cam was BPA but he obviously had a medical red flag.

With Wallace and Bilal off the board this is a pretty easy pick for the front office.

Shouldn't call people idiots on this board. If no roster changes occur, why don't you show how many minutes each guy will get in the new lineup. And be realistic. The need was a talent skillset need: shooting.

Also, lots of non-realgm people say similar thing, it's a questionable positional fit. The pathway for a guard to get minutes would be a lot easier.

But this assumes Fred is retained, no trades occur. Other teams drafted into similar issues also.

Idiots? LMAO.

I didn't call anyone in particular an idiot. But if the shoe fits (kidding. sorta)
Maybe I'll change the term to ill-informed or casual fan to be more politically correct.

Going into the draft name one person who said. Hey lets not draft a player with good three point shooting. We have too much 3 point shooting.

At 13 we had a choice of
Dick 4.9 OBPM 2.9 DBPM 6'7 40% from 3 on 6 attempts.
Bufkin 3.5 OPBM 3.3 DBPM 6'5 35% from 3 on 4 attempts.
Jordan Hawkins 6.4 OBPM 1.9 DPMB 6'5 39% from 3 on 4 attempts.
Keyonte George 4.5 OBPM 0.3 DMPM 6'4 34% from 3 on 9 attempts.
Jalen Hood-Schifino 0.4 OBPM 0.3 DBPM 65 33% from 3 on 4 attempts.

Now our biggest need is shooting. Period. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue that.

Of this group of guys Dick is arguably the best shooter, but it is extremely close. Hawkins is also excellent and George isn't far behind if you believe that his numbers suffered from playing through injury (same as Jett Howard who was already picked.)

Defensively Bufkin rates the highest but scouts give JHS a lot of credit for his defensive potential. Dick has the advantage over Hawkins and George in that he has better size to go with his better college production.

Now I have no problem if you think any of these players is a better prospect. But who is a better fit with current roster ?

You suggested a guard has a better chance of getting minutes. I actually don't disagree with that point.

Bufkin and JHS would probably be able to get some pg mins although I don't think it is that easy. Bufkin isn't a pure pg and JHS wasn't very good outside of pick and roll. Hawkins would likely get exact same chances as Dick as both are 2-3 who going to get the weakest opposite wing/guard assignment.

As for minutes distribution. That is pointless discussion. Without knowing if Fred is back we have no clue how many minutes are available in the backcourt. If we 'run it back' any rookie is going to have a hard time finding minutes regardless of position.

Positional fit is almost meaningless here. Skillset fit is what we need and Dick fits that perfectly.

If you, or anyone else had said 'Hey I think they should've drafted Bufkin he's equally talented but a better fit. I would respect that. Or if you said 'Hey, I think we should've drafter George he has better upside. I would respect that."

But saying I don't like the pick the fit isn't good Is lazy and wrong. The fit is fine.

Dick is the Pick and it is freaking excellent.

[S.W.A.N]

He is a bad fit, particularly with Barnes on defense. Both cannot guard quick players.

That is crazy.

Dick wasn't a terrible defender in college at all. He posted a 2.9 DBPM which is better than a lot of the so called better athletes in the draft.

He is also the PERFECT fit for Scottie on Offense. A big time shooter who also is a good instinctive cutter.

And when you look at the rest of the roster, we have plenty of defensive players that can help cover defensive mistakes. OG, Pascal, Yak, Precious, etc etc. Drafting a guy who projects to be an average defender with elite shooting is not a bad fit in any world.

I'm more worried about Fred's defenses fit than I am Dicks. We can hide a 2-3 easily enough. Hiding a bad defensive pg is where things get hard.

Ya. I think there's evidence that Dick might be a passable defender. But he might not be. He doesn't look laterally quick IMO. It's the one clear risk I have with him.

Scottie has been a pretty awful POA defender so far. You can't have too many of those in a lineup. It turns into a layup line quickly.

Now that is an argument I can respect.

I think you are right. It is the risk with him. As for Scottie, I want to see how his defense changes under new coach. He certainly has the potential to be a good POA defender but hasn't reached that mark. If he can't be that guy then we absolutely have to prioritize having a good/great POA defender aside from OG on the roster.

[Indeed]

That is crazy.

Dick wasn't a terrible defender in college at all. He posted a 2.9 DBPM which is better than a lot of the so called better athletes in the draft.

He is also the PERFECT fit for Scottie on Offense. A big time shooter who also is a good instinctive cutter.

And when you look at the rest of the roster, we have plenty of defensive players that can help cover defensive mistakes. OG, Pascal, Yak, Precious, etc etc. Drafting a guy who projects to be an average defender with elite shooting is not a bad fit in any world.

I'm more worried about Fred's defenses fit than I am Dicks. We can hide a 2-3 easily enough. Hiding a bad defensive pg is where things get hard.

Ya. I think there's evidence that Dick might be a passable defender. But he might not be. He doesn't look laterally quick IMO. It's the one clear risk I have with him.

Scottie has been a pretty awful POA defender so far. You can't have too many of those in a lineup. It turns into a layup line quickly.

Having Poeltl down low will help.

It helps with Poeltl (or a defensive C like Koloko who is projected to shoot the 3 and may allow Barnes to get more space).

However, it is evidence against the Bulls (last game) where they got a stretch C in Vucevic, and neither Barnes nor VanVleet can guard the second scorer (OG on DeRozan).

I think it is better to surround Barnes with quickness who can guard SG/PG (eg. OG). Adding shooters aren't a bad thing, but not really address our biggest need.

[Indeed]

That is crazy.

Dick wasn't a terrible defender in college at all. He posted a 2.9 DBPM which is better than a lot of the so called better athletes in the draft.

He is also the PERFECT fit for Scottie on Offense. A big time shooter who also is a good instinctive cutter.

And when you look at the rest of the roster, we have plenty of defensive players that can help cover defensive mistakes. OG, Pascal, Yak, Precious, etc etc. Drafting a guy who projects to be an average defender with elite shooting is not a bad fit in any world.

I'm more worried about Fred's defenses fit than I am Dicks. We can hide a 2-3 easily enough. Hiding a bad defensive pg is where things get hard.

Ya. I think there's evidence that Dick might be a passable defender. But he might not be. He doesn't look laterally quick IMO. It's the one clear risk I have with him.

Scottie has been a pretty awful POA defender so far. You can't have too many of those in a lineup. It turns into a layup line quickly.

Now that is an argument I can respect.

I think you are right. It is the risk with him. As for Scottie, I want to see how his defense changes under new coach. He certainly has the potential to be a good POA defender but hasn't reached that mark. If he can't be that guy then we absolutely have to prioritize having a good/great POA defender aside from OG on the roster.

I don't see his lack of quickness can defend against POA. His lane agility wasn't great from the Combine, and this is the 2nd year we can tell his quickness isn't against quick PG.

Dick won't be a starter this year, so it wouldn't matter that much, but in the long run, I think we want more than OG to guard quicker players.

[billy_hoyle]

Ya. I think there's evidence that Dick might be a passable defender. But he might not be. He doesn't look laterally quick IMO. It's the one clear risk I have with him.

Scottie has been a pretty awful POA defender so far. You can't have too many of those in a lineup. It turns into a layup line quickly.

Now that is an argument I can respect.

I think you are right. It is the risk with him. As for Scottie, I want to see how his defense changes under new coach. He certainly has the potential to be a good POA defender but hasn't reached that mark. If he can't be that guy then we absolutely have to prioritize having a good/great POA defender aside from OG on the roster.

I don't see his lack of quickness can defend against POA. His lane agility wasn't great from the Combine, and this is the 2nd year we can tell his quickness isn't against quick PG.

Dick won't be a starter this year, so it wouldn't matter that much, but in the long run, I think we want more than OG to guard quicker players.

Ya. I think a line-up of OG-Scottie and Dick can work...
if the other two guys are also good defenders.

I think the fact Scottie is a good help side defender (usually) and Dick appears to be a smart defender (his metrics point to good situational defence IMO) should mitigate the POA issue.

It's not like either of these guys is DeMar "Just chilling and not digging in, getting beat backdoor, sitting in no man's land leaving Channing Frye open at the three point line" DeRozan. That was frustrating to watch.

[Boogie!]

I still don't understand why eceryone is obsessed with defense with dick. Who gives a **** seriously. I'm more concerned that his shooting will actuallt translate. Last thing we need is another shooter who stops making shots the minute he joins the raptors.

If this guy is consistently a 40% 3 point shooter for us on high volume, its a win regardless of his defense.

[Duffman100]

I still don't understand why eceryone is obsessed with defense with dick. Who gives a **** seriously. I'm more concerned that his shooting will actuallt translate. Last thing we need is another shooter who stops making shots the minute he joins the raptors.

If this guy is consistently a 40% 3 point shooter for us on high volume, its a win regardless of his defense.

He's 6'7, high and quick release, little movement from his base. It's hard to see his shot not translating to the NBA level.

[Boogie!]

I still don't understand why eceryone is obsessed with defense with dick. Who gives a **** seriously. I'm more concerned that his shooting will actuallt translate. Last thing we need is another shooter who stops making shots the minute he joins the raptors.

If this guy is consistently a 40% 3 point shooter for us on high volume, its a win regardless of his defense.

He's 6'7, high and quick release, little movement from his base. It's hard to see his shot not translating to the NBA level.

My point is defense isn't the reason this pick was made. If he does what he was picked to do, it's a win. This team needs shooters like him in the worst way. He could be the worst defender in the league, like I said if he's consistently 40% and making the types of shots he's making in those highlights, this pick is an A+. Conversely, if he ends up somehow being a great defender but isn't an efficient shooter, it's a worse result for us. **** his defense.

[ItsDanger]

Yet some idiots will tell you this was a bad fit


If one wanted to be argumentative Cam was BPA but he obviously had a medical red flag.

With Wallace and Bilal off the board this is a pretty easy pick for the front office.

Shouldn't call people idiots on this board. If no roster changes occur, why don't you show how many minutes each guy will get in the new lineup. And be realistic. The need was a talent skillset need: shooting.

Also, lots of non-realgm people say similar thing, it's a questionable positional fit. The pathway for a guard to get minutes would be a lot easier.

But this assumes Fred is retained, no trades occur. Other teams drafted into similar issues also.

Idiots? LMAO.

I didn't call anyone in particular an idiot. But if the shoe fits (kidding. sorta)
Maybe I'll change the term to ill-informed or casual fan to be more politically correct.

Going into the draft name one person who said. Hey lets not draft a player with good three point shooting. We have too much 3 point shooting.

At 13 we had a choice of
Dick 4.9 OBPM 2.9 DBPM 6'7 40% from 3 on 6 attempts.
Bufkin 3.5 OPBM 3.3 DBPM 6'5 35% from 3 on 4 attempts.
Jordan Hawkins 6.4 OBPM 1.9 DPMB 6'5 39% from 3 on 4 attempts.
Keyonte George 4.5 OBPM 0.3 DMPM 6'4 34% from 3 on 9 attempts.
Jalen Hood-Schifino 0.4 OBPM 0.3 DBPM 65 33% from 3 on 4 attempts.

Now our biggest need is shooting. Period. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue that.

Of this group of guys Dick is arguably the best shooter, but it is extremely close. Hawkins is also excellent and George isn't far behind if you believe that his numbers suffered from playing through injury (same as Jett Howard who was already picked.)

Defensively Bufkin rates the highest but scouts give JHS a lot of credit for his defensive potential. Dick has the advantage over Hawkins and George in that he has better size to go with his better college production.

Now I have no problem if you think any of these players is a better prospect. But who is a better fit with current roster ?

You suggested a guard has a better chance of getting minutes. I actually don't disagree with that point.

Bufkin and JHS would probably be able to get some pg mins although I don't think it is that easy. Bufkin isn't a pure pg and JHS wasn't very good outside of pick and roll. Hawkins would likely get exact same chances as Dick as both are 2-3 who going to get the weakest opposite wing/guard assignment.

As for minutes distribution. That is pointless discussion. Without knowing if Fred is back we have no clue how many minutes are available in the backcourt. If we 'run it back' any rookie is going to have a hard time finding minutes regardless of position.

Positional fit is almost meaningless here. Skillset fit is what we need and Dick fits that perfectly.

If you, or anyone else had said 'Hey I think they should've drafted Bufkin he's equally talented but a better fit. I would respect that. Or if you said 'Hey, I think we should've drafter George he has better upside. I would respect that."

But saying I don't like the pick the fit isn't good Is lazy and wrong. The fit is fine.

Dick is the Pick and it is freaking excellent.

Positional fit matters when allocating minutes, especially when matching up with the opposition. I posted my estimate on previous page because I know most won't attempt it. Its an issue. Ideally, you'd want a clear path to maybe 20 minutes a game in his rookie season (especially because he brings an NBA talent immediately, perimeter shooting). From current roster and especially if everyone is extended, its going to be a struggle to get 15 minutes which I don't like for his development.

Solution: trades/remove Fred or other roster adjustment. I see other teams with similar issues after the draft. Some teams let this kind of problem linger on waiting for perfect trades. Look at Bufkin in Atlanta as an example, his pathway to minutes is cloudy at best. Doesn't mean the prospect is bad or anything.

[BillNyeBballGuy]

Really love Dick and how quickly he shoots it from deep. When the D collapses Dick will hit the open man or splash it from all over. Super excited to watch Dick play.

[anotherhomer]

Gradey I think will work out well for the team...

[Indeed]

Now that is an argument I can respect.

I think you are right. It is the risk with him. As for Scottie, I want to see how his defense changes under new coach. He certainly has the potential to be a good POA defender but hasn't reached that mark. If he can't be that guy then we absolutely have to prioritize having a good/great POA defender aside from OG on the roster.

I don't see his lack of quickness can defend against POA. His lane agility wasn't great from the Combine, and this is the 2nd year we can tell his quickness isn't against quick PG.

Dick won't be a starter this year, so it wouldn't matter that much, but in the long run, I think we want more than OG to guard quicker players.

Ya. I think a line-up of OG-Scottie and Dick can work...
if the other two guys are also good defenders.

I think the fact Scottie is a good help side defender (usually) and Dick appears to be a smart defender (his metrics point to good situational defence IMO) should mitigate the POA issue.

It's not like either of these guys is DeMar "Just chilling and not digging in, getting beat backdoor, sitting in no man's land leaving Channing Frye open at the three point line" DeRozan. That was frustrating to watch.

If the other two guys are also good defenders, then who is our 1st option?
I do not see Dick nor Barnes nor OG can be the 1st option, and asking our 1st option to be good defender would be pretty challenging.

I see Dick being the 6th man, perhaps upgrade over Trent, but I don't see him at prime VanVleet level with capable defense and ball handling (with great crossover), yet VanVleet can't be a good 1st option.

[kingz3290]

To me, Gradey's success comes down to his ability to actually get on the floor and have real minutes as a rookie. The reality is that with GTJ coming back, Gradey's going to have to really get the most out of his minutes when he's out there. Ppl will be looking at GTJ everytime he misses a shot, saying play Gradey. Its lowkey, a great situation for Gradey to come in with minimal pressure and win the job off the bench. I can't see a situation where Trent doesn't get traded mid-season. If he didn't like his minutes last year, he might not like them this year much either.

I digress...I think Keyonte George is the player that everyone is going to be blown away by in this draft. Keyonte George + Scottie Barnes would've been on some lob city level ****. But sadly, the front office must've not been willing to go through the motions with a rookie HC and a rookie PG getting starters minutes at the same time. We'll see what Gradey does, he really looks like a young Reggie Miller out there sometimes lol.

[will]

To me, Gradey's success comes down to his ability to actually get on the floor and have real minutes as a rookie. The reality is that with GTJ coming back, Gradey's going to have to really get the most out of his minutes when he's out there. Ppl will be looking at GTJ everytime he misses a shot, saying play Gradey. Its lowkey, a great situation for Gradey to come in with minimal pressure and win the job off the bench. I can't see a situation where Trent doesn't get traded mid-season. If he didn't like his minutes last year, he might not like them this year much either.

I digress...I think Keyonte George is the player that everyone is going to be blown away by in this draft. Keyonte George + Scottie Barnes would've been on some lob city level ****. But sadly, the front office must've not been willing to go through the motions with a rookie HC and a rookie PG getting starters minutes at the same time. We'll see what Gradey does, he really looks like a young Reggie Miller out there sometimes lol.

If the Raptors are getting a quarter of young Reggie Miller...that would be amazing.

[deeps6x]

To me, Gradey's success comes down to his ability to actually get on the floor and have real minutes as a rookie. The reality is that with GTJ coming back, Gradey's going to have to really get the most out of his minutes when he's out there. Ppl will be looking at GTJ everytime he misses a shot, saying play Gradey. Its lowkey, a great situation for Gradey to come in with minimal pressure and win the job off the bench. I can't see a situation where Trent doesn't get traded mid-season. If he didn't like his minutes last year, he might not like them this year much either.

I digress...I think Keyonte George is the player that everyone is going to be blown away by in this draft. Keyonte George + Scottie Barnes would've been on some lob city level ****. But sadly, the front office must've not been willing to go through the motions with a rookie HC and a rookie PG getting starters minutes at the same time. We'll see what Gradey does, he really looks like a young Reggie Miller out there sometimes lol.

Someone posted a YouTube video showing a three on three tournament where Keyonte and Grady were on the same team. I've gotta say, Dick looked good, but George was the alpha. That said, I do think Dick was the slightly better pick for this team, right now.

[Syd-TK3]

To me, Gradey's success comes down to his ability to actually get on the floor and have real minutes as a rookie. The reality is that with GTJ coming back, Gradey's going to have to really get the most out of his minutes when he's out there. Ppl will be looking at GTJ everytime he misses a shot, saying play Gradey. Its lowkey, a great situation for Gradey to come in with minimal pressure and win the job off the bench. I can't see a situation where Trent doesn't get traded mid-season. If he didn't like his minutes last year, he might not like them this year much either.

I digress...I think Keyonte George is the player that everyone is going to be blown away by in this draft. Keyonte George + Scottie Barnes would've been on some lob city level ****. But sadly, the front office must've not been willing to go through the motions with a rookie HC and a rookie PG getting starters minutes at the same time. We'll see what Gradey does, he really looks like a young Reggie Miller out there sometimes lol.

Someone posted a YouTube video showing a three on three tournament where Keyonte and Grady were on the same team. I've gotta say, Dick looked good, but George was the alpha. That said, I do think Dick was the slightly better pick for this team, right now.

Link to the video?

[Tom_Foolery]

This kid will have a fake Jamaican accent by mid-March.

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