FIBA World Cup 2023 (FIRST thread)

[AdagioPace]

Imagine if Yugoslavia was still around?

They'd be owning in many sports right now.

Or they would still be fighting each other.

agree, Yugoslavia could not exist without a dictatorship holding things together by force. Saying "2023 yugoslavia" is like saying "2023 roman empire", simply impossible in any alternative universe, unless you want to make a team made of croatian, bosnian, serbian players right now without a political entity behind.


anyway Banchero would have been amazing for Italy given the talent dearth but we knew it that putting a flag on your social wasn't going to be enough as a sign of commitment when you barely have some connection.

[UcanUwill]

We already talked about it, do not listen to some fanboys, I am FIBA fanboy too, but I can admit FIBA itself has no prestige, FIBA and prestigious doesnt even belong in same sentence sadly, I mean, some of us Euros, care about it very very much, but it is background sport. FIBA Olympics is far far more prestigious than FIBA World Cup, FIBA can try convince everyone otherwise, but thats just not how it is. I dont even know what Mirotic12 was crying about, I am shocked anyone could even argue this topic, Olympics are far more prestigious.

World cup has over 30 teams, Olympics only 12, so maybe fans of teams that has no real chance at Olympics, but only at world cup, can try convince themselves they are in more prestigious tournament, but it is just a lie. Happened exactly what I said, I said Americans arent the only ones who usually send a B squads to WC, its WC, we in Lithuania the whole year knew we will have huge roster loses because its WC, and here we are, SAbonis is not playing, seem like Grigonis, Giedraitis and Echodas already declined.

Just compare roster of teams that usually qualify in both tournaments and you will have an answer which tournament players care about and which not. End of story.

The World Cup rosters are clearly stronger on average than the Olympics rosters are on average. So what you are claiming is simply an incorrect personal opinion.

Ok smart ass, which country has better WC roster compare to its WC roster, on average? Give me an example.

[Mirotic12]

Brazil roster is kind off a complete trash, or am I being too harsh? They lucked out with group G, that only has Spain, but even then, if they somehow lose to Iran or Ivory coast, I am not even sure that would be shocking that much.

Spoiler:

Marcelinho Huertas - Lenovo Tenerife (Spain)
Yago Mateus - ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
Caio Pacheco - Capitanes de Ciudad de México (G-League)
Elio Corazza Neto - São Paulo Futebol Clube (Brazil)
Alexey Borges - 123 Minas (Brazil)
Raul Neto - Cleveland Cavaliers (USA)
George de Paula - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Vitor Benite - Gran Canaria (Spain)
Guilherme Deodato - Clube de Regatas do Flamengo (Brazil)
Didi Louzada - Cleveland Charge (USA)
Reynan Camilo - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Guilherme Santos - Santa Cruz Warriors (USA)
Leonardo Meindl - U-BT Cluj-Napoca (Romania)
Rafael Munford - Esporte Clube Pinheiros (Brazil)
Samis Calderón - NBA Academy (Mexico)
Gabriel Jaú - Clube de Regatas do Flamengo (Brazil)
Renan Lenz - 123 Minas (Brazil)
Lucas Dias - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Bruno Caboclo - ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
Márcio Santos - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Lucas Mariano - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Felipe dos Anjos - MoraBanc Andorra (Spain)
Rafael Hettsheimeir - Clube de Regatas do Flamengo (Brazil)
Tim Soares - Mets de Guaynabo (Puerto Rico)
Cristiano Felício - Coviran Granada (Spain)

It's not that bad actually. More or less similar to their recent rosters. So no chance for a medal, but not absolutely awful to the point of being the worst team either. But yeah, they could lose even to those teams potentially.

[Pachinko_]

Huge bomb, Banchero decided he will represent USA! Good bye Azzurri hopes, huge disappointment for the Italians, obviously not only for this year, but next 10+ years coming.

The way he marketed himself as Italian and promised he was going to play for Italy all this time is really embarrassing.

As an Italian, I don't mind him choosing the USA, that's where he's born and raised. What I really despise is his cultural appropriation and his use of Italian flag (it's still on his Instagram profile right now) when he hasn't even been to Italy in his life and he doesn't speak a word of Italian.

And with his false promises and betrayal he's made sure he's never going to be liked by Italian fans.

as italian I agree with you at 100%

You gotta give him the ultimate test and ask him to cook some spaghetti.
If he breaks it before putting it in the pot then you know he's not Italian.

[Mickey8]

But you were fine with Gregor F.u.c.k.a (its funny the site is censoring his last name ), representing Italy in the 90's ???? I don't have the problem with Banchero representing Italy, he has Italian blood and if its his wish to play for the Italy or the wish of his parents, that's completely fine . I have the issue with the players such as aforementioned F.u.c.k.a ,Ibaka,Mirotic etc. and the naturalized American players who are playing for the bunch of different NT's and they don't have any connection to those countries besides being naturalized and paid for their services.

Fuchka played in Italy since his youth and he was actually speaking Italian.

yeah, compare the "italianity" of Gregor with that of Banchero is as compare night and day

Gregor is 100% Slovenian, born there , lived there before he moved to Italy and gotten naturalized.

[Mirotic12]

We already talked about it, do not listen to some fanboys, I am FIBA fanboy too, but I can admit FIBA itself has no prestige, FIBA and prestigious doesnt even belong in same sentence sadly, I mean, some of us Euros, care about it very very much, but it is background sport. FIBA Olympics is far far more prestigious than FIBA World Cup, FIBA can try convince everyone otherwise, but thats just not how it is. I dont even know what Mirotic12 was crying about, I am shocked anyone could even argue this topic, Olympics are far more prestigious.

World cup has over 30 teams, Olympics only 12, so maybe fans of teams that has no real chance at Olympics, but only at world cup, can try convince themselves they are in more prestigious tournament, but it is just a lie. Happened exactly what I said, I said Americans arent the only ones who usually send a B squads to WC, its WC, we in Lithuania the whole year knew we will have huge roster loses because its WC, and here we are, SAbonis is not playing, seem like Grigonis, Giedraitis and Echodas already declined.

Just compare roster of teams that usually qualify in both tournaments and you will have an answer which tournament players care about and which not. End of story.

The World Cup rosters are clearly stronger on average than the Olympics rosters are on average. So what you are claiming is simply an incorrect personal opinion.

Ok smart ass, which country has better WC roster compare to its WC roster, on average? Give me an example.

It's already been mentioned by others in the thread. This is just nonsense. Of course the Olympics is weaker. 1/3 of the teams in the Olympics are a complete joke. A team can actually make the quarterfinals maybe by just winning 1 game and just 1 game against a joke level team.

There are national federations complaining all the time about how bad the Olympics level is and how it needs to be improved. FIBA itself has said over and over that it can't even be considered even an actual world tournament, unless at an absolute minimum, it had at least 16 teams. Otherwise it's just a small cup tournament. It's ridiculous we are even having to debate this.

[Mickey8]

Imagine if Yugoslavia was still around?

They'd be owning in many sports right now.

Or they would still be fighting each other.

agree, Yugoslavia could not exist without a dictatorship holding things together by force. Saying "2023 yugoslavia" is like saying "2023 roman empire", simply impossible in any alternative universe, unless you want to make a team made of croatian, bosnian, serbian players right now without a political entity behind.


anyway Banchero would have been amazing for Italy given the talent dearth but we knew it that putting a flag on your social wasn't going to be enough as a sign of commitment when you barely have some connection.

Its like in Spain, the dictatorship is not letting some part of the country to separate

[durden_tyler]

The World Cup rosters are clearly stronger on average than the Olympics rosters are on average. So what you are claiming is simply an incorrect personal opinion.

Ok smart ass, which country has better WC roster compare to its WC roster, on average? Give me an example.

It's already been mentioned by others in the thread. This is just nonsense. Of course the Olympics is weaker. 1/3 of the teams in the Olympics are a complete joke. A team can actually make the quarterfinals maybe by just winning 1 game and just 1 game against a joke level team.

There are national federations complaining all the time about how bad the Olympics level is and how it needs to be improved. FIBA itself has said over and over that it can't even be considered even an actual world tournament, unless at an absolute minimum, it had at least 16 teams. otherwise it's just a small cup tournament. It's ridiculous we are even having to debate this.

But basketball is still the Americans’ domain, so whichever tourney they sent their Team A to, that will be considered the actual main event. That’s why the World Cup is seen as less prestigious— until US stops sending their B or C Teams, it will never reach the level we want it to be.

[Mirotic12]

Gregor is 100% Slovenian, born there , lived there before he moved to Italy and gotten naturalized.

Yes, but that does not always mean the same for every such player. Take Sasha Vezenkov as an example. He was born on the Greek side of Cyprus, so can count as a natural born Greek. He learned to speak Greek growing up as a child. He lived his whole early years as a child only on the Greek Cypriot island.

Then at like 12 or 13 or something like that, he moved to the Greek main land. He then lived only in Greece until he was like 19 or 20. He grew up speaking Greek as his main language. He went only to Greek schools. He played only for Greek teams.

So basically, he is 100% Greek entirely in every way, from birth to like age 20. Yet Greece wouldn't let him play for their national team.

[Mickey8]

Ok smart ass, which country has better WC roster compare to its WC roster, on average? Give me an example.

It's already been mentioned by others in the thread. This is just nonsense. Of course the Olympics is weaker. 1/3 of the teams in the Olympics are a complete joke. A team can actually make the quarterfinals maybe by just winning 1 game and just 1 game against a joke level team.

There are national federations complaining all the time about how bad the Olympics level is and how it needs to be improved. FIBA itself has said over and over that it can't even be considered even an actual world tournament, unless at an absolute minimum, it had at least 16 teams. otherwise it's just a small cup tournament. It's ridiculous we are even having to debate this.

But basketball is still the Americans’ domain, so whichever tourney they sent their Team A to, that will be considered the actual main event. That’s why the World Cup is seen as less prestigious— until US stops sending their B or C Teams, it will never reach the level we want it to be.

It doesn't matter , whoever wins the tournament , they are the best national team in the world. The USA not being able to send their best players is not the concern for the other national teams who are participating. I think most of those teams would like to test themselves against the best american players but those players being absent is the issue of USA basketball federation.

[Mickey8]

Gregor is 100% Slovenian, born there , lived there before he moved to Italy and gotten naturalized.

Yes, but that does not always mean the same for every such player. Take Sasha Vezenkov as an example. He was born on the Greek side of Cyprus. He learned to speak Greek growing up as a child. He lived his whole early years as a child only in the Greek Cypriot area.

Then at like 12 or 13 or something like that, he moved to the Greek main land. He then lived only in Greece until he was like 19 or 20. He grew up speaking Greek as his main language, and speaks Bulgarian with an accent. He went only to Greek schools. He played only for Greek teams.

So basically, he is 100% Greek entirely Greek in every way, from birth to like age 20. Yet Greece wouldn't let him play for their national team.

Again I have no issues with the players who are born in another country and they want to play for the country of their origin. As long those players have the roots of the country they are representing and their wish is to play for that country. I am completely fine with that. I am against the naturalization of the players who don't have any roots with the country they are representing.

[Mirotic12]

Gregor is 100% Slovenian, born there , lived there before he moved to Italy and gotten naturalized.

Yes, but that does not always mean the same for every such player. Take Sasha Vezenkov as an example. He was born on the Greek side of Cyprus. He learned to speak Greek growing up as a child. He lived his whole early years as a child only in the Greek Cypriot area.

Then at like 12 or 13 or something like that, he moved to the Greek main land. He then lived only in Greece until he was like 19 or 20. He grew up speaking Greek as his main language, and speaks Bulgarian with an accent. He went only to Greek schools. He played only for Greek teams.

So basically, he is 100% Greek entirely Greek in every way, from birth to like age 20. Yet Greece wouldn't let him play for their national team.

Again I have no issues with the players who are born in another country and they want to play for the country of their origin. As long thoss players have the roots of the country they are representing and their wish was to play for that country I am completely fine with that.

But Vezenkov's country of origin is Greece/Cyprus, which the national status is interchangeable. But yet Greece wouldn't let him play for them. So there also needs to be some kinds of limits on those restrictions.

For me, it's the cases like Bo McCalebb, Lorenzo Brown, Mike Tobey, etc. that are ridiculous.

[UcanUwill]

The World Cup rosters are clearly stronger on average than the Olympics rosters are on average. So what you are claiming is simply an incorrect personal opinion.

Ok smart ass, which country has better WC roster compare to its WC roster, on average? Give me an example.

It's already been mentioned by others in the thread. This is just nonsense. Of course the Olympics is weaker. 1/3 of the teams in the Olympics are a complete joke. A team can actually make the quarterfinals maybe by just winning 1 game and just 1 game against a joke level team.

There are national federations complaining all the time about how bad the Olympics level is and how it needs to be improved. FIBA itself has said over and over that it can't even be considered even an actual world tournament, unless at an absolute minimum, it had at least 16 teams. otherwise it's just a small cup tournament. It's ridiculous we are even having to debate this.

You just dodge a question and talk about something else, which doesnt proof anything

Olympics has 12 teams, of which 9 is usually best and strongly competitive, the other 3 are from Africa and Asia,, which is sadly not competitive.
WC now has 32 teams, of which same 9, maybe few more are competitive, but usually miss more talent, BECAUSE players value Olympic medal more, and the rest of the teams are, well just look at this years lineup, we have :

Angola, Dominica, Philippines, South Sudan, China, Jordan, New Zealand, Exypt, Mexico, Japan, Venezuela, Georgia, Cape Verde, Iran, Ivory Coast, Lebanon

That is 50% of the whole teams that just a beating meat, not competitive whatsoever on paper, but you are whining about 1/3 (1/4 in reality) of Olympics being bad team, somehow WC still have better talent on average?

What are you talking about? Eveyrone who follows FIBA tournaments knows OLYMPICS is the one everyone cares. I love WC because it has more teams, its fun to see more talent and that it is easier to qualify, but how much of an idiots you think we are to buy WC has better rosters on average now? THis is just such a flat out lie and non sense its unbelievable. Sorry that Spanoulis got Eurobasket and WC medals, but that doesnt make those tournaments more prestigious than Olympics
We have seen your schtick for years, you claim something false, make up intelectual source and hope everyone believes you now. We werent born yesterday pal. We have seen World cups and Olympics for decades, Olympics is something everyone cares and its always been like that, WC is something FIBA fans care. FIBA I have no doubt cares about WC, but them saying WC is prestigious doesnt make it prestigious. Just like FIBA, I cant just decide I am prestigious now.

[Mirotic12]

But basketball is still the Americans’ domain, so whichever tourney they sent their Team A to, that will be considered the actual main event. That’s why the World Cup is seen as less prestigious— until US stops sending their B or C Teams, it will never reach the level we want it to be.

USA sent it's so-called A Team to the 2006 World Cup. And supposedly didn't send it to the 2004 Olympics. USA also had better rosters at the 2010 World Cup and the 2014 World Cup than they did at the 2016 Olympics or 2021 Olympics. So, using your own logic and theory, thus, therefore, ergo, FIBA World Cup > FIBA Olympics.

[Mirotic12]

You just dodge a question and talk about something else, which doesnt proof anything

Olympics has 12 teams, of which 9 is usually best and strongly competitive, the other 3 are from Africa and Asia,, which is sadly not competitive.
WC now has 32 teams, of which same 9, maybe few more are competitive, but usually miss more talent, BECAUSE players value Olympic medal more, and the rest of the teams are, well just look at this years lineup, we have :

Angola, Dominica, Philippines, South Sudan, China, Jordan, New Zealand, Exypt, Mexico, Japan, Venezuela, Georgia, Cape Verde, Iran, Ivory Coast, Lebanon

That is 50% of the whole teams that just a beating meat, not competitive whatsoever on paper, but you are whining about 1/3 (1/4 in reality) of Olympics being bad team, somehow WC still have better talent on average?

What are you talking about? Eveyrone who follows FIBA tournaments knows OLYMPICS is the one everyone cares. I love WC because it has more teams, its fun to see more talent and that it is easier to qualify, but how much of an idiots you think we are to buy WC has better rosters on average now? THis is just such a flat out lie and non sense its unbelievable. Sorry that Spanoulis got Eurobasket and WC medals, but that doesnt make those tournaments more prestigious than Olympics
We have seen your schtick for years, you claim something false, make up intelectual source and hope everyone believes you now. We werent born yesterday pal. We have seen World cups and Olympics for decades, Olympics is something everyone cares and its always been like that, WC is something FIBA fans care. FIBA I have no doubt cares about WC, but them saying WC is prestigious doesnt make it prestigious. Just like FIBA, I cant just decide I am prestigious now.

There were literally several posters in this very thread that said World Cup is obviously the stronger tournament. Your attempts to win an unwinnable argument are totally futile here.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Fuchka played in Italy since his youth and he was actually speaking Italian.

yeah, compare the "italianity" of Gregor with that of Banchero is as compare night and day

Gregor is 100% Slovenian, born there , lived there before he moved to Italy and gotten naturalized.

His father was an Italian citizen, just like Paolo's.
The issue with Paolo for me is that he doesn't even speak Italian and has no relationship with the country.
You can ask Gregor now and he probably thinks he's both Slovenian and Italian.
Paolo is an American with Italian heritage.

One last thing, Slovenja and Italy are nearby, with contested borders in the last century. Many guys growing up the Friuli or in Slovenja anyway grew up in a mix of both cultures.

[Mirotic12]

His father was an Italian citizen, just like Paolo's.
The issue with Paolo for me is that he doesn't even speak Italian and has no relationship with the country.
You can ask Gregor now and he probably thinks he's both Slovenian and Italian.
Paolo is an American with Italian heritage.

One last thing, Slovenja and Italy are nearby, with contested borders in the last century. Many guys growing up the Friuli or in Slovenja anyway grew up in a mix of both cultures.

Same with some Croatians.

[Tor_Raps]

Still kind of scared that a bunch of Canadians will pull out of this tournament last minute. Murray just had a long run to a championship after a major injury.

Really want to see Murray - Shai - Wiggins - Barrett play together

[UcanUwill]

You just dodge a question and talk about something else, which doesnt proof anything

Olympics has 12 teams, of which 9 is usually best and strongly competitive, the other 3 are from Africa and Asia,, which is sadly not competitive.
WC now has 32 teams, of which same 9, maybe few more are competitive, but usually miss more talent, BECAUSE players value Olympic medal more, and the rest of the teams are, well just look at this years lineup, we have :

Angola, Dominica, Philippines, South Sudan, China, Jordan, New Zealand, Exypt, Mexico, Japan, Venezuela, Georgia, Cape Verde, Iran, Ivory Coast, Lebanon

That is 50% of the whole teams that just a beating meat, not competitive whatsoever on paper, but you are whining about 1/3 (1/4 in reality) of Olympics being bad team, somehow WC still have better talent on average?

What are you talking about? Eveyrone who follows FIBA tournaments knows OLYMPICS is the one everyone cares. I love WC because it has more teams, its fun to see more talent and that it is easier to qualify, but how much of an idiots you think we are to buy WC has better rosters on average now? THis is just such a flat out lie and non sense its unbelievable. Sorry that Spanoulis got Eurobasket and WC medals, but that doesnt make those tournaments more prestigious than Olympics
We have seen your schtick for years, you claim something false, make up intelectual source and hope everyone believes you now. We werent born yesterday pal. We have seen World cups and Olympics for decades, Olympics is something everyone cares and its always been like that, WC is something FIBA fans care. FIBA I have no doubt cares about WC, but them saying WC is prestigious doesnt make it prestigious. Just like FIBA, I cant just decide I am prestigious now.

There were literally several posters in this very thread that said World Cup is obviously the stronger tournament.

And more you said it wasn't...

I mean obviously if you take 12 olympic team rosters and out of the pool make 12 equal talent teams, those teams will be better than taking 32 WC team players and making 32 teams out of that pool.
DO you disagree with that?

If you take teams that make both OLympics and WC usually, they have far more declines to particiapte when its WC, not OLympics. FACT. Teams that qulify for Olympics always saw WC as secondary global tournament. But do you disagree with that also?

If we are talking, which tournament will have more interesting player, WC will win because it has 32 teams, not 12 teams. So, is that what makes it stronger?

What exactly makes it stronger? I at least provided clear statements why Olympics is better, you provided none and just change the talking point when I ask for one.
I know that you are a troll, but you such genuelly sound like you believe in this, its amazing, I just like seeing how you got nothing. Several RGM posters agreed with you, thats even better than FIBA agreeing with you

[Mirotic12]

And more you said it wasn't...

I mean obviously if you take 12 olympic team rosters and out of the pool make 12 equal talent teams, those teams will be better than taking 32 WC team players and making 32 teams out of that pool.
DO you disagree with that?

If you take teams that make both OLympics and WC usually, they have far more declines to particiapte when its WC, not OLympics. FACT. Teams that qulify for Olympics always saw WC as secondary global tournament. But do you disagree with that also?

If we are talking, which tournament will have more interesting player, WC will win because it has 32 teams, not 12 teams. So, is that what makes it stronger?

What exactly makes it stronger? I at least provided clear statements why Olympics is better, you provided none and just change the talking point when I ask for one.
I know that you are a troll, but you such genuelly sound like you believe in this, its amazing, I just like seeing how you got nothing. Several RGM posters agreed with you, thats even better than FIBA agreeing with you

All of this "more popular", "more prestigious", blah, blah, who cares? How is that in any way at all in the least bit relevant to the issue at hand? Newsflash, it isn't at all relevant.

The World Cup is a HIGHER LEVEL OF COMPETITION. Period. The Olympics being "more prestigious' has absolutely jack squat zero of anything to do with that. Plenty of things in the world are more popular, or more "prestigious" than things they are worse than.

Like every product type or good in the world, has some things that are super popular and even "prestigious", and yet at the same time are of inferior quality compared to other brands of goods and products. Do you think that the most popular or most "prestigious" car is always the most dependable car, etc.? The movie with the biggest budget, that is made by the biggest studio, that grosses the most money, is always the best movie made in terms of its quality? Come on, get serious please.

Man this is really not that hard of a concept to grasp. It's really not. This is absolutely a childish argument that "more popular" (in certain countries only) or "more prestigious" (in certain countries only), or considered "more relevant" (in certain countries only), means that always equates to the highest level of quality.

That is a very childish viewpoint, and it's comically absurd.

And yes, the Olympics is the third FIBA tournament based on the level of competition.

1. EuroBasket
2. World Cup
3. Olympics

It's actually entirely obvious, totally predictable, and completely in line with NBA marketing schemes. You pick the weakest tournament in terms of the level of the competition to "care about". Yeah, because it's the weakest tournament by far, and by far and away the easiest one for Team USA to win.

That along with the Olympics providing you with all the free marketing, air time, and ads, without it costing the NBA anything. NBA marketing schemes and gimmicks 101. It's just a marketing gimmick for the NBA. That was what mattered to the NBA and USA Basketball and FIBA in 1991/1992 - marketing schemes and gimmicks, money, and free air time. It's amazing that this is even at all hard to understand.

In recent years, even the NBA itself wanted to scrap the Olympics, because the tournament is so low quality. The NBA itself wanted to get rid of it and focus on the World Cup instead.