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aj174 wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:Get a 40M trade exemption from Houston, use that along with Scottie for Dame.
Dame / Dick / OG / Siakam / Poeltl
Dennis / GTJ / OPJ / Boucher / Achiwua
This team would barely make the second round. The starting lineup looks decent but the bench? Nahh, cant win with those cats
Mattatron wrote:aj174 wrote:Mattatron wrote:
Your just hating right ? It's cool to hate in today's era I know.. but u really want to tell me we wouldn't beat the heat, knicks, hawks, cavaliers? I think we would be right there with the celtics and bucks.
No no I'm not hating I'm just being critical here, we've seen what kind of depth is needed for a legit title contender. This kind of team has issues
Starting lineup is good, even though we have a rook slotted in, he better be lights out to make up for Yak's lack of spacing, but mainly on the bench OPJ has barely played for us, we have no idea how he is now in 2023. Boucher and Achiuwa are inconsistent shooters and to make it deep in the playoffs you need consistent 3 point shooting
Our bench in 2019 had: FVV, OG, Norm, Ibaka, Boucher/whoever else that night
Compare that to the bench proposed and you see where I'm getting at
edit: OG wasn't even in the playoffs but you get my point, playoffs run 8 or 9 deep
Sure, but like u said, og was injured and Powell barely played a role in that run. Our bench was basically Ibaka and FVV ^^ and the east is not that strong like it was back then. Harden is on his way out, milwaukee might lose lopez, and the celtics.... are just the celtics.
SFour wrote:Ackshun wrote:SFour wrote:
they'll get away with it....this is another Beal/Suns trade situation. Lillard only has Heat on his list.
Beal had a no trade clause. Lillard does not.
I imagine both sides will try to do right by each other though
sure there's no trade clause but the Blazers don't want to have an ugly breakup with Dame
maybe Dame adds Clippers/Sixers on his list and makes it easier for them....but for now only Heat are on the list.
aj174 wrote:Mattatron wrote:aj174 wrote:
No no I'm not hating I'm just being critical here, we've seen what kind of depth is needed for a legit title contender. This kind of team has issues
Starting lineup is good, even though we have a rook slotted in, he better be lights out to make up for Yak's lack of spacing, but mainly on the bench OPJ has barely played for us, we have no idea how he is now in 2023. Boucher and Achiuwa are inconsistent shooters and to make it deep in the playoffs you need consistent 3 point shooting
Our bench in 2019 had: FVV, OG, Norm, Ibaka, Boucher/whoever else that night
Compare that to the bench proposed and you see where I'm getting at
edit: OG wasn't even in the playoffs but you get my point, playoffs run 8 or 9 deep
Sure, but like u said, og was injured and Powell barely played a role in that run. Our bench was basically Ibaka and FVV ^^ and the east is not that strong like it was back then. Harden is on his way out, milwaukee might lose lopez, and the celtics.... are just the celtics.
Norm played a pretty good role actually, he was great against MIL and decent in other series other than the sixers. He was integral to the game 6 comeback at home to send us to the finals. Our bench was mainly FVV, Ibaka and Norm, replace that with Dennis/Dick, Achiuwa and Boucher, i just personally don't see it. It's an interesting team though I'll give you that, I wouldnt sell Barnes for that ride, I still believe he has superstar potential. Esp now with FVV out of the way, more touches for Barnes.
TheGeneral99 wrote:Scase wrote:TorontoBarneys wrote:
JRoy eating good these days. Even the "bad" Grant contract isn't a big deal to an actual rebuilding team and can be flipped for value return unlike us losing FVV for nothing. Even that mediocre FO is playing circles around Masai skill-wise. Sad to see.
You gotta love how a lot of the same posters being okay with trading Siakam now for pennies on the dollar gave out such honest arguments at the deadline like us turning into the Orlando Magic or Houston rockets and tanking for 10+ years due to being unavoidably terrible the moment we traded away the sacred cow.
Narrative is God to these people.
The dumbest part about those people claiming we will be the Magic/Rockets, is they are the same ones that preach "Trust in masai" and wax intellectuals about how great our drafting is.
So either we've got a great FO that can properly navigate a full teardown and rebuild. Or they are incompetent and we will be the magic 2.0. But with them, somehow it's both. Have faith in the FO, but only if I agree with the direction.
I'm convinced all the people like this are just fans of players and not teams, since I never hear "Yeah we should do this for the betterment of the team long term." but, instead it's always defending these players like they are family.
Or maybe you don't always need a full teardown or rebuild to transition into a new era. Why is it always full rebuild or nothing?
The Warriors never intentionally tanked. They got Curry with the 7th pick, Klay at 11, Draymond at 35 and made start signings.
Bucks found Giannis at 15 and Middleton later as well. They were a treadmill team at this time.
Denver got Jokic at 47, MPJ and 14 and Murray at 7.
Did these teams go through intentional and deliberate tear downs and rebuilds? Rebuilding is one option, but it's not the only option to secure talent. There are also circumstances where it makes more sense to rebuild. Portland won 33 games with a healthy Dame for most of the year and have been bad the last couple of years without much around him. It makes sense for them to get as much as they can for Dame at this juncture, especially considering he's 32.
The catch 22 is if you fully tear down your team, rebuild and get a superstar level talent, it takes years for that person to develop and if you don't build a great team around them, they will leave in free agency.
In 2016/2017 we seemed to be a stalemate in terms of our growth, but smart draft picks in Powell, Delon, Poeltl, OG, Siakam and the Fred pick up carried us through and added serious depth and talent despite only having 1 lottery pick.
You have to look at all options.
Scase wrote:TheGeneral99 wrote:Scase wrote:The dumbest part about those people claiming we will be the Magic/Rockets, is they are the same ones that preach "Trust in masai" and wax intellectuals about how great our drafting is.
So either we've got a great FO that can properly navigate a full teardown and rebuild. Or they are incompetent and we will be the magic 2.0. But with them, somehow it's both. Have faith in the FO, but only if I agree with the direction.
I'm convinced all the people like this are just fans of players and not teams, since I never hear "Yeah we should do this for the betterment of the team long term." but, instead it's always defending these players like they are family.
Or maybe you don't always need a full teardown or rebuild to transition into a new era. Why is it always full rebuild or nothing?
The Warriors never intentionally tanked. They got Curry with the 7th pick, Klay at 11, Draymond at 35 and made start signings.
Bucks found Giannis at 15 and Middleton later as well. They were a treadmill team at this time.
Denver got Jokic at 47, MPJ and 14 and Murray at 7.
Did these teams go through intentional and deliberate tear downs and rebuilds? Rebuilding is one option, but it's not the only option to secure talent. There are also circumstances where it makes more sense to rebuild. Portland won 33 games with a healthy Dame for most of the year and have been bad the last couple of years without much around him. It makes sense for them to get as much as they can for Dame at this juncture, especially considering he's 32.
The catch 22 is if you fully tear down your team, rebuild and get a superstar level talent, it takes years for that person to develop and if you don't build a great team around them, they will leave in free agency.
In 2016/2017 we seemed to be a stalemate in terms of our growth, but smart draft picks in Powell, Delon, Poeltl, OG, Siakam and the Fred pick up carried us through and added serious depth and talent despite only having 1 lottery pick.
You have to look at all options.
I'm sorry what? The Dubs never tanked?
* 2008-09 They went 29-53, got the 7th pick and got Curry. This season they lost big contributors from the previous seasons run to the playoffs, either from free agency (notably their franchise player Baron Davis), trades, or injuries. And ultimately they replaced their GM.
* 2009-10 They went 26-56, got the 6th pick and (stupidly) picked Ekpe Udoh. Then traded more players away, notably Jax.
* 2010-11 They went 36-46, got the 11th pick and got Klay. Traded a lotto pick (Randolph 14th) for David Lee.
* 2011-12 They went 23-43, got the 7th pick and got Barnes. Also drafted Draymond with the 35th, a second that they traded for. Injuries and the lockout derailed this season. Traded their team leader Ellis, Kwame, and Udoh (6th pick) to get Bogut.
* 2012-13 They went 47-35, and the rest is history.
Bad records, trading away or losing key players (Davis) to FA, drafting promising young talent, and trading for more players (Lee and Bogut) that will fit around the new talent. They used 5 lotto picks to either directly draft their future championship core (Steph/Klay) or starters (Barnes), traded for players to continue rebuilding (Randolph 14th OA, Udoh 6th OA) by using those lotto picks, and traded major core pieces (Ellis).
Sure looks a lot like a rebuild to me.
I'd rather not have to spend this effort breaking down the other bad examples you provided. No the bucks didn't tank explicitly, but they also used a non lotto pick to draft arguably one of, if not THE greatest PF of all time. And then the Nuggets drafted again, one of, if not THE greatest center of all time with a random SRP, and then multiple lotto picks.
So yeah, if your "other options" are you draft generational talents and once in a lifetime players using mid firsts and late seconds, sure lets go ahead and put all our chips behind that. Instead of the much much much higher chance of using high lotto picks.
Scase wrote:TheGeneral99 wrote:Scase wrote:The dumbest part about those people claiming we will be the Magic/Rockets, is they are the same ones that preach "Trust in masai" and wax intellectuals about how great our drafting is.
So either we've got a great FO that can properly navigate a full teardown and rebuild. Or they are incompetent and we will be the magic 2.0. But with them, somehow it's both. Have faith in the FO, but only if I agree with the direction.
I'm convinced all the people like this are just fans of players and not teams, since I never hear "Yeah we should do this for the betterment of the team long term." but, instead it's always defending these players like they are family.
Or maybe you don't always need a full teardown or rebuild to transition into a new era. Why is it always full rebuild or nothing?
The Warriors never intentionally tanked. They got Curry with the 7th pick, Klay at 11, Draymond at 35 and made start signings.
Bucks found Giannis at 15 and Middleton later as well. They were a treadmill team at this time.
Denver got Jokic at 47, MPJ and 14 and Murray at 7.
Did these teams go through intentional and deliberate tear downs and rebuilds? Rebuilding is one option, but it's not the only option to secure talent. There are also circumstances where it makes more sense to rebuild. Portland won 33 games with a healthy Dame for most of the year and have been bad the last couple of years without much around him. It makes sense for them to get as much as they can for Dame at this juncture, especially considering he's 32.
The catch 22 is if you fully tear down your team, rebuild and get a superstar level talent, it takes years for that person to develop and if you don't build a great team around them, they will leave in free agency.
In 2016/2017 we seemed to be a stalemate in terms of our growth, but smart draft picks in Powell, Delon, Poeltl, OG, Siakam and the Fred pick up carried us through and added serious depth and talent despite only having 1 lottery pick.
You have to look at all options.
I'm sorry what? The Dubs never tanked?
* 2008-09 They went 29-53, got the 7th pick and got Curry. This season they lost big contributors from the previous seasons run to the playoffs, either from free agency (notably their franchise player Baron Davis), trades, or injuries. And ultimately they replaced their GM.
* 2009-10 They went 26-56, got the 6th pick and (stupidly) picked Ekpe Udoh. Then traded more players away, notably Jax.
* 2010-11 They went 36-46, got the 11th pick and got Klay. Traded a lotto pick (Randolph 14th) for David Lee.
* 2011-12 They went 23-43, got the 7th pick and got Barnes. Also drafted Draymond with the 35th, a second that they traded for. Injuries and the lockout derailed this season. Traded their team leader Ellis, Kwame, and Udoh (6th pick) to get Bogut.
* 2012-13 They went 47-35, and the rest is history.
Bad records, trading away or losing key players (Davis) to FA, drafting promising young talent, and trading for more players (Lee and Bogut) that will fit around the new talent. They used 5 lotto picks to either directly draft their future championship core (Steph/Klay) or starters (Barnes), traded for players to continue rebuilding (Randolph 14th OA, Udoh 6th OA) by using those lotto picks, and traded major core pieces (Ellis).
Sure looks a lot like a rebuild to me.
I'd rather not have to spend this effort breaking down the other bad examples you provided. No the bucks didn't tank explicitly, but they also used a non lotto pick to draft arguably one of, if not THE greatest PF of all time. And then the Nuggets drafted again, one of, if not THE greatest center of all time with a random SRP, and then multiple lotto picks.
So yeah, if your "other options" are you draft generational talents and once in a lifetime players using mid firsts and late seconds, sure lets go ahead and put all our chips behind that. Instead of the much much much higher chance of using high lotto picks.
Dr Positivity wrote:The Blazers are possibly not rebuilding looking at the Grant contract, and Anunoby would be the prefect fit with Scoot, Simons and Grant. So Anunoby and picks would probably be a competitive offer.
Still, I think Portland will play the "loyalty" card to Lillard and send him where he wants, which probably isn't to Toronto to win 48 games with Siakam. Likewise, I don't know if us going all in on Lillard is the right move either.
LoveMyRaps wrote:GP2 wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:?s=20
lol FOH. If I'm the Blazers I demand Bam at minimum. If the Heat get away with giving a poo-poo platter for Dame, that's garbage.
Blazers have no choice but to trade Dame to a team of his choice. If he only wants to go Miami and Brooklyn, then they'll have to accept whatever poo-poo platters those teams offer up.
not giving Dane what he wanted essentially screwed their leverage on any trade. Mattatron wrote:Scase wrote:TheGeneral99 wrote:
Or maybe you don't always need a full teardown or rebuild to transition into a new era. Why is it always full rebuild or nothing?
The Warriors never intentionally tanked. They got Curry with the 7th pick, Klay at 11, Draymond at 35 and made start signings.
Bucks found Giannis at 15 and Middleton later as well. They were a treadmill team at this time.
Denver got Jokic at 47, MPJ and 14 and Murray at 7.
Did these teams go through intentional and deliberate tear downs and rebuilds? Rebuilding is one option, but it's not the only option to secure talent. There are also circumstances where it makes more sense to rebuild. Portland won 33 games with a healthy Dame for most of the year and have been bad the last couple of years without much around him. It makes sense for them to get as much as they can for Dame at this juncture, especially considering he's 32.
The catch 22 is if you fully tear down your team, rebuild and get a superstar level talent, it takes years for that person to develop and if you don't build a great team around them, they will leave in free agency.
In 2016/2017 we seemed to be a stalemate in terms of our growth, but smart draft picks in Powell, Delon, Poeltl, OG, Siakam and the Fred pick up carried us through and added serious depth and talent despite only having 1 lottery pick.
You have to look at all options.
I'm sorry what? The Dubs never tanked?
* 2008-09 They went 29-53, got the 7th pick and got Curry. This season they lost big contributors from the previous seasons run to the playoffs, either from free agency (notably their franchise player Baron Davis), trades, or injuries. And ultimately they replaced their GM.
* 2009-10 They went 26-56, got the 6th pick and (stupidly) picked Ekpe Udoh. Then traded more players away, notably Jax.
* 2010-11 They went 36-46, got the 11th pick and got Klay. Traded a lotto pick (Randolph 14th) for David Lee.
* 2011-12 They went 23-43, got the 7th pick and got Barnes. Also drafted Draymond with the 35th, a second that they traded for. Injuries and the lockout derailed this season. Traded their team leader Ellis, Kwame, and Udoh (6th pick) to get Bogut.
* 2012-13 They went 47-35, and the rest is history.
Bad records, trading away or losing key players (Davis) to FA, drafting promising young talent, and trading for more players (Lee and Bogut) that will fit around the new talent. They used 5 lotto picks to either directly draft their future championship core (Steph/Klay) or starters (Barnes), traded for players to continue rebuilding (Randolph 14th OA, Udoh 6th OA) by using those lotto picks, and traded major core pieces (Ellis).
Sure looks a lot like a rebuild to me.
I'd rather not have to spend this effort breaking down the other bad examples you provided. No the bucks didn't tank explicitly, but they also used a non lotto pick to draft arguably one of, if not THE greatest PF of all time. And then the Nuggets drafted again, one of, if not THE greatest center of all time with a random SRP, and then multiple lotto picks.
So yeah, if your "other options" are you draft generational talents and once in a lifetime players using mid firsts and late seconds, sure lets go ahead and put all our chips behind that. Instead of the much much much higher chance of using high lotto picks.
I doubt the warriors tanked by purpose. they were just bad for several years with bad management.
Ackshun wrote:SFour wrote:Ackshun wrote:
Beal had a no trade clause. Lillard does not.
I imagine both sides will try to do right by each other though
sure there's no trade clause but the Blazers don't want to have an ugly breakup with Dame
maybe Dame adds Clippers/Sixers on his list and makes it easier for them....but for now only Heat are on the list.
Yeah they will work together and I agree, Dame will likely need to add a few teams to the list to help Portland get some decent value back.
They won’t have an ugly break up but I’m betting against Dame going to Miami without a few other teams getting involved,
He’ll likely end up there when it’s all said and done
docholliday99 wrote:Ackshun wrote:SFour wrote:
sure there's no trade clause but the Blazers don't want to have an ugly breakup with Dame
maybe Dame adds Clippers/Sixers on his list and makes it easier for them....but for now only Heat are on the list.
Yeah they will work together and I agree, Dame will likely need to add a few teams to the list to help Portland get some decent value back.
They won’t have an ugly break up but I’m betting against Dame going to Miami without a few other teams getting involved,
He’ll likely end up there when it’s all said and done
Adding a 3rd team will be tricky if Portland doesn't want Herro and or Lowry can be redirected but I can't fathom what team that would be. Herro's a 20/5/4 guy with great splits. We know that Masai tried to get him before and our offense can get stagnant. I'm a HUGE OG fan and OG wants more of an offensive role and ballhandling, as he's again putting that out there - I just don't think that's for him and I actually think he wants to go. Trade defense that's expiring for offense/ballhandling that the Raptors need that's locked in for 4 years. I just worry about moving a top 5 defensive player, steals leader and potential DPOY candidate - but Id hate to lose him for nothing next offseason.
Portland out - Dame
Portland in - OG, Lowry, 2 frps, 3 swaps
TO out - OG, OPJ
TO in - Herro
Heat out - Lowry, Herro, 2 frps, 3 swaps
Heat in - Lillard, OPJ
