Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[Nebuchadnezzar]

After what he's meant to that team and city, they would be crucified by players/agents/media if they sent him anywhere other than Miami. We could offer Siakam, OG, Barnes, GTJ and Dick and if Dame says no to Toronto, then that trade isn't happening. Rightly or wrongly, that is the NBA now.

I think Masai has shown he does not give an F what the rest of the league or fans thinks. From trading away demar when he got flack, to trading for Kawhi when many said he wouldn't play in TO, to not tanking when the whole world wanted him to. He refused to sell his players for bit parts when that's what everyone was doing - with the exception of Darell Morey who also didn't budge.. He was a pioneer in asset accumulation for trades as an approach, and now that's what teams do.

Masai doesn't care about your new NBA, and he'd work with Portland on a Dame trade by helping them manage their poor optics by giving them the playbook for how the team handled the Demar/Kawhi situation.

Lol ok. Let's completely ignore the fact that Kawhi had no leverage and the team trading him now hated him.

Can you explain what you mean by leverage? Kawhi could have not played, and cited injury to save face. Dame wouldn't have that leverage.

Also, Masai has shown how you can trade a beloved star out of no where (one that got them as many conference finals appearances as Dame has), at not totally ruin the teams reputation or success - we have second most wins in the past 10 years in the whole league.

[MiamiSPX]

No it isn’t. Dame has no leverage here - he doesn’t have a NTC. Beal could dictate where he went because of that but Dame doesn’t have it and he’s locked into a deal, so he’s going where the Blazers trade him.

Teams try to accommodate player requests and Dame hasn’t been a headache for them so they’ll definitely work with him. But they could also just.. not trade him. Guys threaten to sit out all the time but it never happens.

I disagree. We will know soon enough but I will bet you anything he goes to Miami. And that will be the 5th or 6th consecutive star that asks out AND picked his team.

I also think he probably ends up with Miami because Miami has the assets to get him (Herro, contracts, 1sts). That said, who are the 5-6 stars you’re talking about picking their teams excluding Beal? KD may be one, but Brooklyn got a haul. Who else? Not attacking, just trying to remember and drawing a blank.

KD
Harden x 2 (soon to be 3)
AD
Beal
PG

This one doesn't count, but the Nets made sure Kyrie would agree to Dallas before the trade. Embiid will likely go to his desired destination when he finally asks out. I think even Jaylen Brown will get the same treatment when he secures that supermax and then asks out (which will happen IMO).

I don't dispute that in some of those cases the trading team got some really nice hauls, but that doesn't dispute the notion that these guys go to where they want to go.

[brownbobcat]

After what he's meant to that team and city, they would be crucified by players/agents/media if they sent him anywhere other than Miami. We could offer Siakam, OG, Barnes, GTJ and Dick and if Dame says no to Toronto, then that trade isn't happening. Rightly or wrongly, that is the NBA now.

No it isn’t. Dame has no leverage here - he doesn’t have a NTC. Beal could dictate where he went because of that but Dame doesn’t have it and he’s locked into a deal, so he’s going where the Blazers trade him.

Teams try to accommodate player requests and Dame hasn’t been a headache for them so they’ll definitely work with him. But they could also just.. not trade him. Guys threaten to sit out all the time but it never happens.

Who's the last big star who requested a trade and didn't get moved?

[Los_29]

Or, maybe READ the post and how I clearly outlined massive events that moved them to tank. Davis leaving in FA, major injuries, trading lotto picks for established players to start rebuilding the roster. Like god damn dude, read it.

Bad management tends to get a team mired in mediocrity, look no further than BC. He was a bad GM, and in his tenure we went :

* 41-41
* 33-49
* 40-42
* 22-60
* 23-43
* 34-48

Multiple mediocre seasons that resulted in eventually really bad teams. Bad management doesn't make you a bottom feeder over night. The dubs were 48-34 the year before they lost Davis and had injuries. They were just smart enough to see those signs and lean into the rebuild. You know instead of trade away FRPs to end up .500 and try your hardest to bring back a mediocre guard to run back another mid season.

Sometimes it's not about what you do, it's about what you don't do.

They never tanked, they were just bad. The year in which they got Curry they had guys like Jackson, Biedrins, Maggette and Monta. The year before that they won 48 games with essentially the same roster minus Baron Davis. No one will argue that they were a poorly constructed team. But you can't say they had the goal of tanking prior to the beginning of the season. They kept a lot of those mediocre guys around the team for a long time. In fact, Monta didn't even get traded until like 2012.

4 seasons in a row they were horrible to bad. But yeah, all just coincidence. How people can quote a post, and respond to it, while ignoring the entire body of the post, just blows my mind.

They did not CHOOSE the first year, Davis and injuries made it happen. They CHOSE to lean into it the following 2-3 years cause they were smart enough to know when to stop forcing a square peg into a round hole.

Because this has been discussed for two years now. They didn't tank. They kept the same mediocre core for years. They lost Davis and kept the SAME CORE of mediocre players.

That team never even picked inside the top 5. They were basically the Wizards of the past four years.

[Scase]

I think Masai has shown he does not give an F what the rest of the league or fans thinks. From trading away demar when he got flack, to trading for Kawhi when many said he wouldn't play in TO, to not tanking when the whole world wanted him to. He refused to sell his players for bit parts when that's what everyone was doing - with the exception of Darell Morey who also didn't budge.. He was a pioneer in asset accumulation for trades as an approach, and now that's what teams do.

Masai doesn't care about your new NBA, and he'd work with Portland on a Dame trade by helping them manage their poor optics by giving them the playbook for how the team handled the Demar/Kawhi situation.

Are you pretending that trading assets for a disgruntled star is something new that only Masai pioneered? Dude did nothing special, he built a team that was flaming out every playoff series for years, then pounced on a disgruntled star. Kudos for the timing and making it work, but this isn't some new concept. It just worked out.

Give him roses for things working out, but can we stop acting like he's the smartest man in NBA history, holy ****.

TBH I can't remember last small market or Canadian team that did that, if any. I could be wrong, but it's probably not common (Kawhi was arguably top 3 in NBA at that time).

Why are we putting on some qualifiers like a small market or canadian team? Why does that matter. No one with half a brain ever expected Kawhi to re-sign. It was absolutely a rental, he demanded to go to LA and they sent him to another **** country lol, he was always gone. Kudos to him for being a pro and busting his ass and bringing us a chip.

And like you said, top 3 players like this dont get free'd up very often. As I mentioned before, give Masai all his roses for it working out despite the risks, I applaud him for a high risk, high reward attempt. But, he's not the first GM or the last, to trade for a disgruntled star.

[StopitLeo]

Adding a 3rd team will be tricky if Portland doesn't want Herro and or Lowry can be redirected but I can't fathom what team that would be. Herro's a 20/5/4 guy with great splits. We know that Masai tried to get him before and our offense can get stagnant. I'm a HUGE OG fan and OG wants more of an offensive role and ballhandling, as he's again putting that out there - I just don't think that's for him and I actually think he wants to go. Trade defense that's expiring for offense/ballhandling that the Raptors need that's locked in for 4 years. I just worry about moving a top 5 defensive player, steals leader and potential DPOY candidate - but Id hate to lose him for nothing next offseason.

Portland out - Dame
Portland in - OG, Lowry, 2 frps, 3 swaps
TO out - OG, OPJ
TO in - Herro
Heat out - Lowry, Herro, 2 frps, 3 swaps
Heat in - Lillard, OPJ

Miami gets: Lillard
Toronto gets: Butler
Portland gets: OG, Boucher, Thad, and picks/swaps

The whole point of going to MIA is to join Butler.

I thought it was Bam he wanted to play with?

[JRoy]

Miami gets: Lillard
Toronto gets: Butler
Portland gets: OG, Boucher, Thad, and picks/swaps

The whole point of going to MIA is to join Butler.

I thought it was Bam he wanted to play with?

Both.

[mihaic]

Are you pretending that trading assets for a disgruntled star is something new that only Masai pioneered? Dude did nothing special, he built a team that was flaming out every playoff series for years, then pounced on a disgruntled star. Kudos for the timing and making it work, but this isn't some new concept. It just worked out.

Give him roses for things working out, but can we stop acting like he's the smartest man in NBA history, holy ****.

TBH I can't remember last small market or Canadian team that did that, if any. I could be wrong, but it's probably not common (Kawhi was arguably top 3 in NBA at that time).

Why are we putting on some qualifiers like a small market or canadian team? Why does that matter. No one with half a brain ever expected Kawhi to re-sign. It was absolutely a rental, he demanded to go to LA and they sent him to another **** country lol, he was always gone. Kudos to him for being a pro and busting his ass and bringing us a chip.

And like you said, top 3 players like this dont get free'd up very often. As I mentioned before, give Masai all his roses for it working out despite the risks, I applaud him for a high risk, high reward attempt. But, he's not the first GM or the last, to trade for a disgruntled star.

I guess you say that you actually agree, without saying it. The point of the previous poster (which I agree with) is that Masai probably wouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger on such a move, regardless of the risks, because it's a potentially high reward move. He went for it when 27 other GM's didn't. That is all.

So I think we actually agree.

By the way: the small market thing is there, in my post, in an attempt to make situations somewhat comparable: a small market GM isusually afraid to take a high risk in such case; Masai wasn't in a comparable, or worse, situation.

[vulture]

It’s too bad Elon has messed up one of the best days of the year on twitter. I can’t make sense of anything happening today.

[Zeno]

It’s too bad Elon has messed up one of the best days of the year on twitter. I can’t make sense of anything happening today.

I can only see tweets on my phone. Chrome browser on a pc shows some but not all.

[Mattatron]

Miami gets: Lillard
Toronto gets: Butler
Portland gets: OG, Boucher, Thad, and picks/swaps

The whole point of going to MIA is to join Butler.

I thought it was Bam he wanted to play with?

Lmao u think he just wants to join Miami because of bam and they trade their playoffs hero in butler, then this would be Portland 2.0... Of course he wants to team up with butler, bam is a bonus because he's a friend. Jimmy made it clear to Riley weeks ago that Dame is the target.

[StopitLeo]

The whole point of going to MIA is to join Butler.

I thought it was Bam he wanted to play with?

Lmao u think he just wants to join Miami because of bam and they trade their playoffs hero in butler, then this would be Portland 2.0... Of course he wants to team up with butler, bam is a bonus because he's a friend. Jimmy made it clear to Riley weeks ago that Dame is the target.

Portland is going to get voluntarily fleeced then.

[RapsFanInOhio]

After what he's meant to that team and city, they would be crucified by players/agents/media if they sent him anywhere other than Miami. We could offer Siakam, OG, Barnes, GTJ and Dick and if Dame says no to Toronto, then that trade isn't happening. Rightly or wrongly, that is the NBA now.

No it isn’t. Dame has no leverage here - he doesn’t have a NTC. Beal could dictate where he went because of that but Dame doesn’t have it and he’s locked into a deal, so he’s going where the Blazers trade him.

Teams try to accommodate player requests and Dame hasn’t been a headache for them so they’ll definitely work with him. But they could also just.. not trade him. Guys threaten to sit out all the time but it never happens.

Who's the last big star who requested a trade and didn't get moved?

That wasn’t my point. He was saying they picked the team they wanted to go to, but I don’t think it’s that simple. If a star player asks to be traded they typically get moved but it’s also typically something that works out just fine for the team that traded them.

[vulture]

It’s too bad Elon has messed up one of the best days of the year on twitter. I can’t make sense of anything happening today.

I can only see tweets on my phone. Chrome browser on a pc shows some but not all.

Between the dame trade request and pat bev being in Philly I’m just so lost.

[6ixpessant]

One of the most overrated Players of the last decade.

Yep, up there with Bradley Beal

[docholliday99]

I thought it was Bam he wanted to play with?

Lmao u think he just wants to join Miami because of bam and they trade their playoffs hero in butler, then this would be Portland 2.0... Of course he wants to team up with butler, bam is a bonus because he's a friend. Jimmy made it clear to Riley weeks ago that Dame is the target.

Portland is going to get voluntarily fleeced then.

This is a business first and a sport second, I don't think you realize just how much money Portland has made off of Dame. He could have left a long time ago and stayed "loyal". Both Lillard and Portland will make the trade to Miami work and honestly, there is no trade out there with a contender, that would stay a contender afterwards while trying to give equal value for Dame.

[RapsFanInOhio]

KD
Harden x 2 (soon to be 3)
AD
Beal
PG

This one doesn't count, but the Nets made sure Kyrie would agree to Dallas before the trade. Embiid will likely go to his desired destination when he finally asks out. I think even Jaylen Brown will get the same treatment when he secures that supermax and then asks out (which will happen IMO).

I don't dispute that in some of those cases the trading team got some really nice hauls, but that doesn't dispute the notion that these guys go to where they want to go.

Beal doesn’t count - the NTC gave him all of that leverage. The others - with the exception of Harden who I don’t think specifically requested Philly, and George, who was straight up tampering - are fair. Kawhi happened in the midst of all that though, so you can’t leave his situation out.

I guess I’ve viewed these situations as more of a mutual decision as opposed to this being a burden on the teams. OKC is fine. NOP is fine. Brooklyn will be fine. The Rockets are the Rockets. None of those guys have won a ship since they were moved except AD in the bubble.

Ironically enough, the team that went against the player in all of that ended up in the worst position afterwards - San Antonio should have probably taken a different deal but because they didn’t “cave” they wound up on a treadmill then a rebuild.

[Scase]

TBH I can't remember last small market or Canadian team that did that, if any. I could be wrong, but it's probably not common (Kawhi was arguably top 3 in NBA at that time).

Why are we putting on some qualifiers like a small market or canadian team? Why does that matter. No one with half a brain ever expected Kawhi to re-sign. It was absolutely a rental, he demanded to go to LA and they sent him to another **** country lol, he was always gone. Kudos to him for being a pro and busting his ass and bringing us a chip.

And like you said, top 3 players like this dont get free'd up very often. As I mentioned before, give Masai all his roses for it working out despite the risks, I applaud him for a high risk, high reward attempt. But, he's not the first GM or the last, to trade for a disgruntled star.

I guess you say that you actually agree, without saying it. The point of the previous poster (which I agree with) is that Masai probably wouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger on such a move, regardless of the risks, because it's a potentially high reward move. He went for it when 27 other GM's didn't. That is all.

So I think we actually agree.

By the way: the small market thing is there, in my post, in an attempt to make situations somewhat comparable: a small market GM isusually afraid to take a high risk in such case; Masai wasn't in a comparable, or worse, situation.

Yeah for sure I agree with some aspects of what you said, he definitely went for it when others didn't and I applaud him for the ballsy move. I would rather him go for a home run and it fail, than do what he's been doing the last few years of standing pat and watching the team get progressively worse and as our assets decline in value, or outright walk.

If he goes for Dame though, I think he's an idiot. The team that acquired Kawhi had loads of depth and could send assets out without really taking much of a hit. This team is a skeleton, it's the same as the KD rumours in the off season, you trade for him, you have nothing around him and end up a 2nd round team at best.

[Clutch0z24]

Hes going to the Heat.....Heat did a few moves today to suggest that its basically a lock....Just depends what Blazers will get back...

But i think out of courtesy Blazers will send him to his desired landing spot.

[brownbobcat]

That wasn’t my point. He was saying they picked the team they wanted to go to, but I don’t think it’s that simple. If a star player asks to be traded they typically get moved but it’s also typically something that works out just fine for the team that traded them.

OK, who's the last star player who requested a trade to a specific team and wasn't accommodated?