Raptors sign Markquis Nowell

[Kurtz]

Sure let's ignore the fact Caleb Martin who balled the **** out for them was listed as an SG for 1/3rd of the minutes he played and essentially carried the skillset and responsibilities of an SG for the remaining minutes.

Oh and write off Lowry who isn't 40 years old and popped off for them in criticial moments during their run.

You're living in lala land.

You're getting desperate if you're listing Martin as a guard. They mostly played him at PF especially in the playoffs.

If we go by your desperate criteria we might as well list Scottie as a guard as well.

Martin played 75% of his 694 playoff minutes this year listed as the SG, 22% of them as an SF and 0 at PF. You are instantly going on ignore with your irrelevant posts and lies. Do better next time.

Dude, you're reaching insane levels of ignorance here. Did you watch the playoffs?

They had Jimmy at the 3, Love/Martin at the 4 and Bam at the 5. They had Herro at SG until he went down and then they had Struss.

Here are their most common lineups this season. Note that Martin is the PF:
https://www.lineups.com/nba/lineups/miami-heat

Don't come back to this thread until you get a clue.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

You're getting desperate if you're listing Martin as a guard. They mostly played him at PF especially in the playoffs.

If we go by your desperate criteria we might as well list Scottie as a guard as well.

Martin played 75% of his 694 playoff minutes this year listed as the SG, 22% of them as an SF and 0 at PF. You are instantly going on ignore with your irrelevant posts and lies. Do better next time.

Dude, you're reaching insane levels of ignorance here. Did you watch the playoffs?

They had Jimmy at the 3, Love/Martin at the 4 and Bam at the 5. They had Herro at SG until he went down and then they had Struss.

Here are their most common lineups this season. Note that Martin is the PF:
https://www.lineups.com/nba/lineups/miami-heat

Don't come back to this thread until you get a clue.

You are so ignorant it's actually unreal. Have fun listening to lineups.com and not paying attention to the actual areas of the floor said players are operating from and what they're doing on the floor.

You thinking Caleb Martin is a power forward with Adebayo and Butler on the floor when he operates from beyond the arc at its sides, in the corners and along the baseline in small ball lineups with Butler operating a ton more closer to the basket is comical. Martin's entire kit is that of a SG/SF hybrid. This PF talk is actually insanity Try using a better metric than lineups.com

warned personal attack

[Kurtz]

Martin played 75% of his 694 playoff minutes this year listed as the SG, 22% of them as an SF and 0 at PF. You are instantly going on ignore with your irrelevant posts and lies. Do better next time.

Dude, you're reaching insane levels of ignorance here. Did you watch the playoffs?

They had Jimmy at the 3, Love/Martin at the 4 and Bam at the 5. They had Herro at SG until he went down and then they had Struss.

Here are their most common lineups this season. Note that Martin is the PF:
https://www.lineups.com/nba/lineups/miami-heat

Don't come back to this thread until you get a clue.

You are so ignorant it's actually unreal. Have fun listening to lineups.com and not paying attention to the actual areas of the floor said players are operating from and what they're doing on the floor.

You thinking Caleb Martin is a power forward with Adebayo and Butler on the floor when he operates from beyond the arc at its sides, in the corners and along the baseline in small ball lineups with Butler operating a ton more closer to the basket is comical. Martin's entire kit is that of a SG/SF hybrid. This PF talk is actually insanity Try using a better metric than lineups.com

Dude, I told you to stay out of this thread until you get a clue. Martin has been a forward his entire career, his shot selection has nothing to do with it. Gasol was a playmaker and 3pt shooter on the Raps championship squad - that didn't make him a guard either, you absolute imbecile.

warned personal attack

[Duffman100]

Dude, you're reaching insane levels of ignorance here. Did you watch the playoffs?

They had Jimmy at the 3, Love/Martin at the 4 and Bam at the 5. They had Herro at SG until he went down and then they had Struss.

Here are their most common lineups this season. Note that Martin is the PF:
https://www.lineups.com/nba/lineups/miami-heat

Don't come back to this thread until you get a clue.

You are so ignorant it's actually unreal. Have fun listening to lineups.com and not paying attention to the actual areas of the floor said players are operating from and what they're doing on the floor.

You thinking Caleb Martin is a power forward with Adebayo and Butler on the floor when he operates from beyond the arc at its sides, in the corners and along the baseline in small ball lineups with Butler operating a ton more closer to the basket is comical. Martin's entire kit is that of a SG/SF hybrid. This PF talk is actually insanity Try using a better metric than lineups.com

Dude, I told you to stay out of this thread until you get a clue. Martin has been a forward his entire career, his shot selection has nothing to do with it. Gasol was a playmaker and 3pt shooter on the Raps championship squad - that didn't make him a guard either, you absolute imbecile.

Both of you stop it.

[Kurtz]

seems so obvious to me that position should be based on who you guard on defense

calling Luka a PG is silly to me, despite his skillset & role on offense. he's 6'10 and guards wings/PFs

That gets a little tricky too when you can have a guy like OG pretty much be able to guard 4-5 positions.

Luka is a point-forward like Lebron.

[sbsat]

So after all of that, HumbleRen admits they are guards anyways. Lovely.

I'm finding it very difficult to have proper dialogue with him .... changes definitions, moves goal posts... it seems I am not alone! He slaps a "lol" and "lmao" after every sentence he says, so maybe he just f*cking with us.

[Johnny Bball]

seems so obvious to me that position should be based on who you guard on defense

calling Luka a PG is silly to me, despite his skillset & role on offense. he's 6'10 and guards wings/PFs

That gets a little tricky too when you can have a guy like OG pretty much be able to guard 4-5 positions.

Luka is a point-forward like Lebron.

Those teams can play without a PG and instead add an extra PF, SF, SG. It provides a fair bit of flexibility.

[junot111]

I'm saying his skillset is a wing lol.

GTJ doesn't bring guard like skills to the table. The dude can't dribble man lol.

A point guard’s job is to dribble, create and manage. Typically the best ball handler on the team.

A shooting guards main job is to score from the outside in. Dribbling isn’t a huge part of it outside of shot creation (whether that’s on the perimeter or getting to the rim). They usually do a lot of moving away from the ball.

A combo guard does both to some degree.

To say Norm isn’t a guard…well I dunno man.

I agree if we're using an older era of basketball. There's a reason why the traditional SG position has been getting phased out, if you aren't dynamic enough to be a combo guard, you're essentially an extension of the SF position, a wing player that shoots 3's and hopefully is able to defend.

It's why Norm and GTJ both really struggled off the bench for us but Derrick White, Hurter, Monk, Immanuel Quickley, Maxey, etc etc of the worlds can thrive whether they're coming off the bench or starting. The latter have the necessary guard skills in the current modern NBA while the former have more of a wing skill set.

GTJ/Norm are literally the worst type of "guards" you can have on your team with a roster like ours because they skew more towards being wings then they are guards.

Yeah I don't see why this is such a hot take. This team clearly lacks players with real guard skills (dribbling, passing, shooting, etc) which is why Nurse had to play Fred 40mpg. Both GTJ and Norm are SFs in SG bodies and don't bring those skills to the table besides shooting.

[HumbleRen]

A point guard’s job is to dribble, create and manage. Typically the best ball handler on the team.

A shooting guards main job is to score from the outside in. Dribbling isn’t a huge part of it outside of shot creation (whether that’s on the perimeter or getting to the rim). They usually do a lot of moving away from the ball.

A combo guard does both to some degree.

To say Norm isn’t a guard…well I dunno man.

I agree if we're using an older era of basketball. There's a reason why the traditional SG position has been getting phased out, if you aren't dynamic enough to be a combo guard, you're essentially an extension of the SF position, a wing player that shoots 3's and hopefully is able to defend.

It's why Norm and GTJ both really struggled off the bench for us but Derrick White, Hurter, Monk, Immanuel Quickley, Maxey, etc etc of the worlds can thrive whether they're coming off the bench or starting. The latter have the necessary guard skills in the current modern NBA while the former have more of a wing skill set.

GTJ/Norm are literally the worst type of "guards" you can have on your team with a roster like ours because they skew more towards being wings then they are guards.

Yeah I don't see why this is such a hot take. This team clearly lacks players with real guard skills (dribbling, passing, shooting, etc) which is why Nurse had to play Fred 40mpg. Both GTJ and Norm are SFs in SG bodies and don't bring those skills to the table besides shooting.

I think they’re taking the positions too literally. The current NBA is too complex and dynamic to be using these positions in such an archaic way.

Not surprising since most of them thought the core was worth keeping together lol.

[Boogie!]

It's funny how people **** on positionless basketball and still have no concrete definitions on how to define positions....

People need to realize the nba is indeed becoming positionless... that's why there's nothing wrong with the core philosophy of what the raptors are doing in trying to get a binch of 6'9 players.... the issue is not the size or position, the issue is the skillsets....

If you had 5 lebron James on the same team would anyone care about who's playing what position? What about 5 paul georges? Etc etc...No one would care because at the end of the day they can all dribble pass and shoot and defend.

Ultimately that Is what the nba has become... idk why people are getting into heated debates defining positions... you guys arguing with each other on both ends of the spectrum are all ultimately missing the point...

Most of you arguing seem to have no idea about how the game is played nowadays if you're trying to have concrete definitions like point guards dribble most of the time...

Even someone like Stephen curry Is more of a scoring guard to me... he's labeled as a point guard, yet spends most of his time running off of screens as draymond sets him up... he's not the point guard in the way some people are defining it here.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

It's funny how people **** on positionless basketball and still have no concrete definitions on how to define positions....

People need to realize the nba is indeed becoming positionless... that's why there's nothing wrong with the core philosophy of what the raptors are doing in trying to get a binch of 6'9 players.... the issue is not the size or position, the issue is the skillsets....

If you had 5 lebron James on the same team would anyone care about who's playing what position? What about 5 paul georges? Etc etc...No one would care because at the end of the day they can all dribble pass and shoot and defend.

Ultimately that Is what the nba has become... idk why people are getting into heated debates defining positions... you guys arguing with each other on both ends of the spectrum are all ultimately missing the point...

Most of you arguing seem to have no idea about how the game is played nowadays if you're trying to have concrete definitions like point guards dribble most of the time...

Even someone like Stephen curry Is more of a scoring guard to me... he's labeled as a point guard, yet spends most of his time running off of screens as draymond sets him up... he's not the point guard in the way some people are defining it here.

The NBA Fantasy: Positionless basketball
The NBA reality: Positionless basketball for four out of 5 positions. Cant fake the funk on having a centre.

[tripa]

It's funny how people **** on positionless basketball and still have no concrete definitions on how to define positions....

People need to realize the nba is indeed becoming positionless... that's why there's nothing wrong with the core philosophy of what the raptors are doing in trying to get a binch of 6'9 players.... the issue is not the size or position, the issue is the skillsets....

If you had 5 lebron James on the same team would anyone care about who's playing what position? What about 5 paul georges? Etc etc...No one would care because at the end of the day they can all dribble pass and shoot and defend.

Ultimately that Is what the nba has become... idk why people are getting into heated debates defining positions... you guys arguing with each other on both ends of the spectrum are all ultimately missing the point...

Most of you arguing seem to have no idea about how the game is played nowadays if you're trying to have concrete definitions like point guards dribble most of the time...

Even someone like Stephen curry Is more of a scoring guard to me... he's labeled as a point guard, yet spends most of his time running off of screens as draymond sets him up... he's not the point guard in the way some people are defining it here.

The NBA Fantasy: Positionless basketball
The NBA reality: Positionless basketball for four out of 5 positions. Cant fake the funk on having a centre.

You missed the point entirely.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

It's funny how people **** on positionless basketball and still have no concrete definitions on how to define positions....

People need to realize the nba is indeed becoming positionless... that's why there's nothing wrong with the core philosophy of what the raptors are doing in trying to get a binch of 6'9 players.... the issue is not the size or position, the issue is the skillsets....

If you had 5 lebron James on the same team would anyone care about who's playing what position? What about 5 paul georges? Etc etc...No one would care because at the end of the day they can all dribble pass and shoot and defend.

Ultimately that Is what the nba has become... idk why people are getting into heated debates defining positions... you guys arguing with each other on both ends of the spectrum are all ultimately missing the point...

Most of you arguing seem to have no idea about how the game is played nowadays if you're trying to have concrete definitions like point guards dribble most of the time...

Even someone like Stephen curry Is more of a scoring guard to me... he's labeled as a point guard, yet spends most of his time running off of screens as draymond sets him up... he's not the point guard in the way some people are defining it here.

The NBA Fantasy: Positionless basketball
The NBA reality: Positionless basketball for four out of 5 positions. Cant fake the funk on having a centre.

You missed the point entirely.

Maybe I did, sorry - it's a great point about skill sets being the most important thing, and not the position being the defining characteristic. However I think it's important to still break down the categories you provided. Dribble, pass, shoot and defend still needs some drilling down. At least one person needs to be able to defend the paint - i.e 5 Paul George's or Lebron's wouldn't accomplish that. You need someone who is an excellent screen setter as well. I would also say you need someone who is a big who is a threat in the paint and keep defenders guarding the perimeter honest.

While you maybe don't have to put a label on someone for this, I think it maybe easier to use the nomenclature of "centre"

But apologies should have been more specific in my first post.

[Boogie!]

The NBA Fantasy: Positionless basketball
The NBA reality: Positionless basketball for four out of 5 positions. Cant fake the funk on having a centre.

You missed the point entirely.

Maybe I did, sorry - it's a great point about skill sets being the most important thing, and not the position being the defining characteristic. However I think it's important to still break down the categories you provided. Dribble, pass, shoot and defend still needs some drilling down. At least one person needs to be able to defend the paint - i.e 5 Paul George's or Lebron's wouldn't accomplish that. You need someone who is an excellent screen setter as well. I would also say you need someone who is a big who is a threat in the paint and keep defenders guarding the perimeter honest.

While you maybe don't have to put a label on someone for this, I think it maybe easier to use the nomenclature of "centre"

But apologies should have been more specific in my first post.

Just to play devils advocate, if you have 5 guys that could beat someone off the dribble at will and get into the paint and force scrambles, do you really need a screen setter?

Traditional nba roles existed because back in the day the core philosophy was different. Also, certain players of certain sizes were usually limited to things they could do athletically... little dudes were too short to reach the basket, but were quick and agile so they worked on their dribbling skills and passing to be Effective... bigger dudes were slow and lumbering so they used their size to protect little dudes, set screens, rebound and play in the post because they could physically reach the net easier.

Nowadays, you have guys that are tall, long, athletic and can do all the things the little guys can do... they can shoot, they can pass, they can play in the paint. Thats why the nba has changed.

20 years ago guys like Pascal siakam would've been seen as freaks of Nature and superstars... now that skillset at that size is so normalized that people are upset that he's not giannis and want to trade him... the game has changed.

[HiJiNX]

I agree if we're using an older era of basketball. There's a reason why the traditional SG position has been getting phased out, if you aren't dynamic enough to be a combo guard, you're essentially an extension of the SF position, a wing player that shoots 3's and hopefully is able to defend.

It's why Norm and GTJ both really struggled off the bench for us but Derrick White, Hurter, Monk, Immanuel Quickley, Maxey, etc etc of the worlds can thrive whether they're coming off the bench or starting. The latter have the necessary guard skills in the current modern NBA while the former have more of a wing skill set.

GTJ/Norm are literally the worst type of "guards" you can have on your team with a roster like ours because they skew more towards being wings then they are guards.

Yeah I don't see why this is such a hot take. This team clearly lacks players with real guard skills (dribbling, passing, shooting, etc) which is why Nurse had to play Fred 40mpg. Both GTJ and Norm are SFs in SG bodies and don't bring those skills to the table besides shooting.

I think they’re taking the positions too literally. The current NBA is too complex and dynamic to be using these positions in such an archaic way.

Not surprising since most of them thought the core was worth keeping together lol.

It’s not about taking the positions too literally—I’m just using your logic. When I coach the game I don’t even give my kids positions, I give them responsibilities based on skill set and physical profiles. But again, you introduced this talk of so and so is a guard and so and so is a wing. Using your logic, Norm is not a wing player, based on how he plays, the areas of the court he operates from, and how he accesses his opportunities. He’s a guard who can play some wing minutes in a pinch.

However, if we want to play semantics then we can say that players with guard skills, regardless of positional signifiers, tend to operate from the perimeter and those with wing skills tend to be more versatile in the areas they operate from, typically a mix of perimeter and midrange with a little bit of post play mixed in there.

How often is a player like Norm being given the ball to create for others from the perimeter or given the ball in the midrange or post to create for himself? Not very often. What does that leave us with? I’ll let you figure it out.

[HumbleRen]

Yeah I don't see why this is such a hot take. This team clearly lacks players with real guard skills (dribbling, passing, shooting, etc) which is why Nurse had to play Fred 40mpg. Both GTJ and Norm are SFs in SG bodies and don't bring those skills to the table besides shooting.

I think they’re taking the positions too literally. The current NBA is too complex and dynamic to be using these positions in such an archaic way.

Not surprising since most of them thought the core was worth keeping together lol.

It’s not about taking the positions too literally—I’m just using your logic. When I coach the game I don’t even give my kids positions, I give them responsibilities based on skill set and physical profiles. But again, you introduced this talk of so and so is a guard and so and so is a wing. Using your logic, Norm is not a wing player, based on how he plays, the areas of the court he operates from, and how he accesses his opportunities. He’s a guard who can play some wing minutes in a pinch.

However, if we want to play semantics then we can say that players with guard skills, regardless of positional signifiers, tend to operate from the perimeter and those with wing skills tend to be more versatile in the areas they operate from, typically a mix of perimeter and midrange with a little bit of post play mixed in there.

How often is a player like Norm being given the ball to create for others from the perimeter or given the ball in the midrange or post to create for himself? Not very often. What does that leave us with? I’ll let you figure it out.

I really don't think it's semantics when you've seen our roster construction philosophy over the last couple of years, or lets say lack of one.

Building a roster of 6'9 dudes is cute and all but it means nothing if you don't have differing skillsets. When you see how starved we are for guards, you don't look at Norm and GTJ as someone who can alleviate that. Even if you had both Norm and GTJ on this team, it wouldn't solve a single issue in terms of what we need from our guard depth. Why ? Because their skillset is are what wings bring to the table.

[HumbleRen]

im still cracking up lol

[tripa]

Finally HumbleRen uses ‘lol’ properly

[DelAbbot]

im still cracking up lol

what's funny? he knew it was an airball and darted back on defense

damn this short man's 3pt form is like a olympic level shot-put throw - I don't think he could ever become a mini-FVV

[JShuttlesworth]

im still cracking up lol

I was shaking my head when I saw him do this