Trade/Free Agency Thread, part Ocho, 2023-24

[Larry_Russell]

I don't disagree that JB doesn't deserve $300m and 35% of the max. But if we just let him walk we are going to get worse, and our championship hopes take a serious hit. Yeah he can't go left and has a lot of TOs but the fact is he scores 25 ppg on very good efficiency for a SG, and plays above average defense. Is that worth $300m? No it isn't, but we also don't have a realistic opportunity to find another guy who can replace that production. All we have is the chance to keep the guy we have, flaws and all, and hope he improves as he enters the prime of his career. At least we know he will work his ass off and be a good citizen, not get fat or post videos waving a gun around. There is value in high character.

He can't go right either, and he doesn't score on very good efficiency. His TS% is .581 which is exactly league average and the same as Julius Randle. That's not very good.

He also registers some of the worst on/off numbers in the league, let alone on the team.

Not waiving guns on Insta is not a sign of high character. That's the bare minimum.

Few things. The Celtics were absolutely IN on Dame, and any Dame deal would have involved JB and a third team. Brown has a really strong market and is a really good player entering his prime. BUT.....paying JB the supermax is going to make things extremely difficult for Boston to build rosters in the near future. That's just a fact. And then there's another BUT. BUT, trading him opens up the risk of pissing off Tatum. Which clearly the Celtics do not want to do. Especially, when they're in the middle of a title window. You don't want to take a step back and waste a great Tatum season.

My guess at this point is since Dame is being a little bit$h, Boston will end up signing JB and worrying about the rest later. I have no idea about any details of the negotiations, but I've heard NTC as a sticking point. I didn't think JB could request one until 8 years in the league, but since he technically has 1 year remaining on his contract, perhaps he is?? Can someone please clarify that for me? Giving him a NTC is a horrible idea, unless he agrees to a deal for significantly less than the supermax.

As far as trading him elsewhere for a package that doesn't include Dame. I have no idea if Brad would do that or not. I feel like if he did JT would HAVE to be consulted.

What if Dame changes his mind about only Miami.

What is the chances that happens>?

[chrisab123]

He can't go right either, and he doesn't score on very good efficiency. His TS% is .581 which is exactly league average and the same as Julius Randle. That's not very good.

He also registers some of the worst on/off numbers in the league, let alone on the team.

Not waiving guns on Insta is not a sign of high character. That's the bare minimum.

Few things. The Celtics were absolutely IN on Dame, and any Dame deal would have involved JB and a third team. Brown has a really strong market and is a really good player entering his prime. BUT.....paying JB the supermax is going to make things extremely difficult for Boston to build rosters in the near future. That's just a fact. And then there's another BUT. BUT, trading him opens up the risk of pissing off Tatum. Which clearly the Celtics do not want to do. Especially, when they're in the middle of a title window. You don't want to take a step back and waste a great Tatum season.

My guess at this point is since Dame is being a little bit$h, Boston will end up signing JB and worrying about the rest later. I have no idea about any details of the negotiations, but I've heard NTC as a sticking point. I didn't think JB could request one until 8 years in the league, but since he technically has 1 year remaining on his contract, perhaps he is?? Can someone please clarify that for me? Giving him a NTC is a horrible idea, unless he agrees to a deal for significantly less than the supermax.

As far as trading him elsewhere for a package that doesn't include Dame. I have no idea if Brad would do that or not. I feel like if he did JT would HAVE to be consulted.

What if Dame changes his mind about only Miami.

What is the chances that happens>?

Hes not going to. Its a superstar based league. They run the league not the teams. If Dame huffs and puffs hard enough he'll eventually get his way. Not to mention that Riley being involved only enhances the deal getting done. He's the ultimate closer. Like the final boss in the ABC video game for the NBA. He'll wait it out and keep having Dames agent and Dame apply the pressure to Portland through the media. Hes good at what he does I'll give him that.

[chrisab123]

This is an extension; for that to contain a ntc it has to be in the previous contract on which the extension is based. Also ddb stop pretending you have sources: you haven’t heard ****

DDB has been here a lot longer than yourself. He has had stuff that has been vetted and verified in the past.

[ddb]

Are we overthinking things? I was thinking about the roster as-is last night. White/JB/JT/Zinger/Al with Brogdon/PP/Brissett/Timelord/Banton/Walsh off the bench. Likely more moves coming. I mean, that's a REALLY GOOD roster.

White was our 3rd best player last season. 2nd team All-NBA defense. Improved shooting splits. Durable. And that was with an inconsistent role on the team. He started a lot of games but came off the bench for others. Closed some games, didn't close many. Now he's the FT starter. He knows who he is on the team now. I expect a career year from White. Not to mention there's a little addition by subtraction now with White playing 35mpg.

JT/JB. Still stars and entering their prime. They've tasted defeat. They're battled tested. Are they the perfect match? No. But you won't find a GM in the league that wouldn't take these two as the core. I expect big years ahead for these two.

Zinger. I think some of us are sleeping on the impact he will have on this team. He's a 23/8 guy that can also protect the RIM. 7'3 and can knock down shots from all over. Can post him up which opens up a whole new dimension to this team. If he's on the floor with JT and/or JB he'll never be doubled. In a vacuum would you have traded Smart/Grant/Gallo/Muscala for Zinger and 2 first rd picks? The answer is yes. I'm excited to see how he does in Boston.

Al/Timelord....Still solid bigs. Each offer complimentary skills. Both defend well. Timelord gives us a rim runner, AL stretches the floor. Now with Zinger we have 3 legit bigs and can lower Al's minutes during the regular season.

Brogdon. If he's healthy and mentally good to go after being involved in trade talks, he's the reining 6MOTY and I don't see why he wouldn't be in line for another one. He pushes tempo, will shoot it over 40% from 3. Solid downhill game. Not the best defender but good size and can play both guard spots. Veteran to lead the 2nd unit.

Brissett/Banton. Not your household names, but two guys that can fill roles on the team. Both 6'7, both play hard. Brissett will be a fan favorite. Banton hasn't done much in the league, but I remember watching him in preseason last year and really liking his game. I think there's upside there. He can't shoot it, but he defends and can run point.

Walsh....He reminds me of Iggy light. If he can develop into a respectable 3pt shooter, I really think Brad struck gold. His frame, size, athletic ability and defensive mindset will earn him minutes fast. and I can absolutely see him turning into an important piece to the puzzle.

The point I'm trying to make is that this team should be at the top of the standings. Whether Dame goes to Miami or not....With the Bucks healthy. With Harden back in Philly. Regardless of all of that, I see Boston remaining a title contender.

But with all of that said. I still expect Brad to find ways to improve the roster between now and preseason.

[steefP2]

This is an extension; for that to contain a ntc it has to be in the previous contract on which the extension is based. Also ddb stop pretending you have sources: you haven’t heard ****

DDB has been here a lot longer than yourself. He has had stuff that has been vetted and verified in the past.

Once, 15 years ago. I’ve lurked here since 05. I know ddb well enough

[chrisab123]

This is an extension; for that to contain a ntc it has to be in the previous contract on which the extension is based. Also ddb stop pretending you have sources: you haven’t heard ****

DDB has been here a lot longer than yourself. He has had stuff that has been vetted and verified in the past.

Once, 15 years ago. I’ve lurked here since 05. I know ddb well enough

So you also know the board rules to not take shots at other posters then. Everyone has their own opinions.

[playa-hater]

I understand that a star is a star and role players are role players. Regardless of how they are named there is validity in it.

Sabonis (1 All-NBA and 3 AS), Siakam (2 All-NBA and 1 AS), Randle (2 All-NBA and 2 AS) all have more accolades than Jaylen Brown and none of them are getting the supermax. Siakam and Randle didn't even sign for the 30% max. Making one All-NBA doesn't necessarily mean you are a superstar deserving of 35% max money.

300M to a guy that can’t dribble left, and has tunnel vision. Also doesn’t really fit with your main guy. This should be a no brainer. Smh

You failed to mention that JB doesn't really like Boston as well.

[Hal14]

Are we overthinking things? I was thinking about the roster as-is last night. White/JB/JT/Zinger/Al with Brogdon/PP/Brissett/Timelord/Banton/Walsh off the bench. Likely more moves coming. I mean, that's a REALLY GOOD roster.

White was our 3rd best player last season. 2nd team All-NBA defense. Improved shooting splits. Durable. And that was with an inconsistent role on the team. He started a lot of games but came off the bench for others. Closed some games, didn't close many. Now he's the FT starter. He knows who he is on the team now. I expect a career year from White. Not to mention there's a little addition by subtraction now with White playing 35mpg.

JT/JB. Still stars and entering their prime. They've tasted defeat. They're battled tested. Are they the perfect match? No. But you won't find a GM in the league that wouldn't take these two as the core. I expect big years ahead for these two.

Zinger. I think some of us are sleeping on the impact he will have on this team. He's a 23/8 guy that can also protect the RIM. 7'3 and can knock down shots from all over. Can post him up which opens up a whole new dimension to this team. If he's on the floor with JT and/or JB he'll never be doubled. In a vacuum would you have traded Smart/Grant/Gallo/Muscala for Zinger and 2 first rd picks? The answer is yes. I'm excited to see how he does in Boston.

Al/Timelord....Still solid bigs. Each offer complimentary skills. Both defend well. Timelord gives us a rim runner, AL stretches the floor. Now with Zinger we have 3 legit bigs and can lower Al's minutes during the regular season.

Brogdon. If he's healthy and mentally good to go after being involved in trade talks, he's the reining 6MOTY and I don't see why he wouldn't be in line for another one. He pushes tempo, will shoot it over 40% from 3. Solid downhill game. Not the best defender but good size and can play both guard spots. Veteran to lead the 2nd unit.

Brissett/Banton. Not your household names, but two guys that can fill roles on the team. Both 6'7, both play hard. Brissett will be a fan favorite. Banton hasn't done much in the league, but I remember watching him in preseason last year and really liking his game. I think there's upside there. He can't shoot it, but he defends and can run point.

Walsh....He reminds me of Iggy light. If he can develop into a respectable 3pt shooter, I really think Brad struck gold. His frame, size, athletic ability and defensive mindset will earn him minutes fast. and I can absolutely see him turning into an important piece to the puzzle.

The point I'm trying to make is that this team should be at the top of the standings. Whether Dame goes to Miami or not....With the Bucks healthy. With Harden back in Philly. Regardless of all of that, I see Boston remaining a title contender.

But with all of that said. I still expect Brad to find ways to improve the roster between now and preseason.

I agree with all of that. Even Kornet (and if we resign Griffin) are solid 4th/5th bigs, imo. Last season they were our 3rd/4th bigs and we had the #1 net rating in the league.

Right now, we're as good as any team in the league, on paper. Especially when you consider Denver and Miami have both gotten worse.

With that being said, the elephant in the room is JB's looming supermax extension. So the main topic of discussion here is whether we should sign him to that deal or explore a trade that could give us more financial flexibility while at the same time giving us a better team in both the short term and the long term. Is there a deal out there that is realistic that could do that? Probably not, but I think it could be done. And every day that goes by without the extension being signed, the higher the odds are that JB is not staying here long term..

[ddb]

This is an extension; for that to contain a ntc it has to be in the previous contract on which the extension is based. Also ddb stop pretending you have sources: you haven’t heard ****

DDB has been here a lot longer than yourself. He has had stuff that has been vetted and verified in the past.

Thanks. Also, I don't claim to be some "insider". Every once in a while, I hear a little birdie from people I've known for many years that work on the hoops operation side within NBA circles. It stemmed from the Spurs years ago, but I also worked with the Bruins during the Celtics title season and got to know people there as well. Years later these folks are spread out across the league. I loosely keep in touch. The conversations are casual, I'm not bugging people asking what they know.
Just because I say, "hey I heard Celts are in on Dame and players are talking to Dame about playing in Boston" doesn't mean I know that with certainty. I guess I was validated though as the following two days were filled with that exact sentiment. But when I say I heard that, I actually heard that from someone that is closer to that stuff than I am.

It's all good. I've long enjoyed sharing opinions and talking hoops with fellow fans that are knowledgeable and passionate about the Celtics and NBA

[chrisab123]

Sabonis (1 All-NBA and 3 AS), Siakam (2 All-NBA and 1 AS), Randle (2 All-NBA and 2 AS) all have more accolades than Jaylen Brown and none of them are getting the supermax. Siakam and Randle didn't even sign for the 30% max. Making one All-NBA doesn't necessarily mean you are a superstar deserving of 35% max money.

300M to a guy that can’t dribble left, and has tunnel vision. Also doesn’t really fit with your main guy. This should be a no brainer. Smh

You failed to mention that JB doesn't really like Boston as well.

If he reads this board I can't blame him. We all know what this is. He's going to get paid and force a trade next year.

[ddb]

Sabonis (1 All-NBA and 3 AS), Siakam (2 All-NBA and 1 AS), Randle (2 All-NBA and 2 AS) all have more accolades than Jaylen Brown and none of them are getting the supermax. Siakam and Randle didn't even sign for the 30% max. Making one All-NBA doesn't necessarily mean you are a superstar deserving of 35% max money.

300M to a guy that can’t dribble left, and has tunnel vision. Also doesn’t really fit with your main guy. This should be a no brainer. Smh

You failed to mention that JB doesn't really like Boston as well.

This is simply not true AT ALL. If anything, he's a human being and feels like he's in Tatum's shadow. Which he is. That doesn't mean he doesn't like Tatum or Boston or anything like that. He's a star. He has an ego like all these guys do. I'm sure the thought of being a #1 creeps into his mind from time to time. But he's also smart enough to know he's in a great situation and can have a lot of success and possibly win rings in Boston

[Larry_Russell]

Are we overthinking things? I was thinking about the roster as-is last night. White/JB/JT/Zinger/Al with Brogdon/PP/Brissett/Timelord/Banton/Walsh off the bench. Likely more moves coming. I mean, that's a REALLY GOOD roster.

White was our 3rd best player last season. 2nd team All-NBA defense. Improved shooting splits. Durable. And that was with an inconsistent role on the team. He started a lot of games but came off the bench for others. Closed some games, didn't close many. Now he's the FT starter. He knows who he is on the team now. I expect a career year from White. Not to mention there's a little addition by subtraction now with White playing 35mpg.

JT/JB. Still stars and entering their prime. They've tasted defeat. They're battled tested. Are they the perfect match? No. But you won't find a GM in the league that wouldn't take these two as the core. I expect big years ahead for these two.

Zinger. I think some of us are sleeping on the impact he will have on this team. He's a 23/8 guy that can also protect the RIM. 7'3 and can knock down shots from all over. Can post him up which opens up a whole new dimension to this team. If he's on the floor with JT and/or JB he'll never be doubled. In a vacuum would you have traded Smart/Grant/Gallo/Muscala for Zinger and 2 first rd picks? The answer is yes. I'm excited to see how he does in Boston.

Al/Timelord....Still solid bigs. Each offer complimentary skills. Both defend well. Timelord gives us a rim runner, AL stretches the floor. Now with Zinger we have 3 legit bigs and can lower Al's minutes during the regular season.

Brogdon. If he's healthy and mentally good to go after being involved in trade talks, he's the reining 6MOTY and I don't see why he wouldn't be in line for another one. He pushes tempo, will shoot it over 40% from 3. Solid downhill game. Not the best defender but good size and can play both guard spots. Veteran to lead the 2nd unit.

Brissett/Banton. Not your household names, but two guys that can fill roles on the team. Both 6'7, both play hard. Brissett will be a fan favorite. Banton hasn't done much in the league, but I remember watching him in preseason last year and really liking his game. I think there's upside there. He can't shoot it, but he defends and can run point.

Walsh....He reminds me of Iggy light. If he can develop into a respectable 3pt shooter, I really think Brad struck gold. His frame, size, athletic ability and defensive mindset will earn him minutes fast. and I can absolutely see him turning into an important piece to the puzzle.

The point I'm trying to make is that this team should be at the top of the standings. Whether Dame goes to Miami or not....With the Bucks healthy. With Harden back in Philly. Regardless of all of that, I see Boston remaining a title contender.

But with all of that said. I still expect Brad to find ways to improve the roster between now and preseason.

I am fine with the roster thus far.

I worry about the future with the finances
I worry about the fuure with Jaylen continuing down the Kyrie rabbit hole


And I worry about either a Rob Williams replacement or a legic starting point guard depending on the plan going forward as far as lineups

I perfer to go big with

White/Brogdon/Banton
Brown/..../....
Tatum/Walsh/Hauser
Porzingas/Horford/Brisset
Timelord/...../Kornet

Obviously with that lineup we need a shooting scorer at sg off the bench and we need a potential Rob replacement and have a TPE, vet min, picks, and Pritchard to get that. Not gonna be too easy (looking at Mark Williams for the backup Center...very Rob Like, imo)


But I can see Joe wanting to go smaller as it gives him a legit 5 out offense, more front court depth, and more playmaking (less Jaylen Brown tryingh to be a playmaker)

Brogdon/Pritchard/Banton
White/...../.....
BRown/Walsh/Hauser
Tatum/Horford/Brisset
Porzingas/Williams/Kornet

need to fill the backup SG spot and depth guard....not sold on Malcolm being a playmaking PG but he does certainly have the skill. His first year in Indiana he logged at 34% assist rate. Can he get back to that? can he stay Healthy?

Big question marks. Prefer him and Payton off the bench at pg/sg but can we land a starting level PG with the assets we have left?


Or do you make a trade of Brogdon for a starting PG/SG and a depth guard?

[Larry_Russell]

Brogdon to Clippers

Batum and Boston first to Washington

Mann and Tyus Jones to Boston

[BK_2020]

I don't disagree that JB doesn't deserve $300m and 35% of the max. But if we just let him walk we are going to get worse, and our championship hopes take a serious hit. Yeah he can't go left and has a lot of TOs but the fact is he scores 25 ppg on very good efficiency for a SG, and plays above average defense. Is that worth $300m? No it isn't, but we also don't have a realistic opportunity to find another guy who can replace that production. All we have is the chance to keep the guy we have, flaws and all, and hope he improves as he enters the prime of his career. At least we know he will work his ass off and be a good citizen, not get fat or post videos waving a gun around. There is value in high character.

He can't go right either, and he doesn't score on very good efficiency. His TS% is .581 which is exactly league average and the same as Julius Randle. That's not very good.

He also registers some of the worst on/off numbers in the league, let alone on the team.

Not waiving guns on Insta is not a sign of high character. That's the bare minimum.

.581 is above league average for SGs. Bigs tend to have higher TS%, like Rob is at 0.742. Randle as a PF at .581 is not very good.

it's incredible... he can't go left, can't go right, can't dribble, can't shoot, and yet somehow manages to score 27 ppg on 49% shooting. i don't know how he manages to tie his shoes, let alone be a top-10 scorer in the league.

Randle is a perimeter scorer. 44% of his shots come from the three and only 22% of his shots are at the rim. Jaylen by contrast took 24% of his shots at the rim. Randle also took 14.9% of shots between 3-10 while Jaylen took 20% of his shots from there. You can't just look at listed positions and assume that Randle is just getting lobs and putbacks while Jaylen is taking jumpers.

The fact is Jaylen Brown is an exceptionally mid scorer. He takes a lot of shots and good on him that they let him do that but he is not helping the team very much by using up a lot of possessions to create essentially and literally mediocre scoring events.

[ddb]

Are we overthinking things? I was thinking about the roster as-is last night. White/JB/JT/Zinger/Al with Brogdon/PP/Brissett/Timelord/Banton/Walsh off the bench. Likely more moves coming. I mean, that's a REALLY GOOD roster.

White was our 3rd best player last season. 2nd team All-NBA defense. Improved shooting splits. Durable. And that was with an inconsistent role on the team. He started a lot of games but came off the bench for others. Closed some games, didn't close many. Now he's the FT starter. He knows who he is on the team now. I expect a career year from White. Not to mention there's a little addition by subtraction now with White playing 35mpg.

JT/JB. Still stars and entering their prime. They've tasted defeat. They're battled tested. Are they the perfect match? No. But you won't find a GM in the league that wouldn't take these two as the core. I expect big years ahead for these two.

Zinger. I think some of us are sleeping on the impact he will have on this team. He's a 23/8 guy that can also protect the RIM. 7'3 and can knock down shots from all over. Can post him up which opens up a whole new dimension to this team. If he's on the floor with JT and/or JB he'll never be doubled. In a vacuum would you have traded Smart/Grant/Gallo/Muscala for Zinger and 2 first rd picks? The answer is yes. I'm excited to see how he does in Boston.

Al/Timelord....Still solid bigs. Each offer complimentary skills. Both defend well. Timelord gives us a rim runner, AL stretches the floor. Now with Zinger we have 3 legit bigs and can lower Al's minutes during the regular season.

Brogdon. If he's healthy and mentally good to go after being involved in trade talks, he's the reining 6MOTY and I don't see why he wouldn't be in line for another one. He pushes tempo, will shoot it over 40% from 3. Solid downhill game. Not the best defender but good size and can play both guard spots. Veteran to lead the 2nd unit.

Brissett/Banton. Not your household names, but two guys that can fill roles on the team. Both 6'7, both play hard. Brissett will be a fan favorite. Banton hasn't done much in the league, but I remember watching him in preseason last year and really liking his game. I think there's upside there. He can't shoot it, but he defends and can run point.

Walsh....He reminds me of Iggy light. If he can develop into a respectable 3pt shooter, I really think Brad struck gold. His frame, size, athletic ability and defensive mindset will earn him minutes fast. and I can absolutely see him turning into an important piece to the puzzle.

The point I'm trying to make is that this team should be at the top of the standings. Whether Dame goes to Miami or not....With the Bucks healthy. With Harden back in Philly. Regardless of all of that, I see Boston remaining a title contender.

But with all of that said. I still expect Brad to find ways to improve the roster between now and preseason.

I agree with all of that. Even Kornet (and if we resign Griffin) are solid 4th/5th bigs, imo. Last season they were our 3rd/4th bigs and we had the #1 net rating in the league.

Right now, we're as good as any team in the league, on paper. Especially when you consider Denver and Miami have both gotten worse.

With that being said, the elephant in the room is JB's looming supermax extension. So the main topic of discussion here is whether we should sign him to that deal or explore a trade that could give us more financial flexibility while at the same time giving us a better team in both the short term and the long term. Is there a deal out there that is realistic that could done that? Probably not, but it's not impossible. And every day that goes by without the extension being signed, the higher the odds are that JB is not staying here long term..

Yup. Very touchy subject. But this is why Brad gets paid the big bucks. To work through these situations and do what's best for the team. I have confidence in Brad.
I think he would deal Brown for the right return and if JT signed off on it. But in all likelihood, I bet a deal gets done and JB is back. It's super risky to trade him unless you're getting a great player in return.
Dame makes sense. I think at this point we're all sick and tired of hearing about Dame. I know I am. Other than Dame I have a hard time thinking of trades that make sense for Boston. Toronto could be interesting. Not sure who else

[playa-hater]

Every morning I read for updates on trades.. Does anyone else feel like we're on a constant Merry Go round with no chance to get off.. I really need a break from looking at my phone all day... Somebody do something..

[Hal14]

We have 14 roster spots filled, but 2 of them are non-guaranteed contracts (Kornet and Champagnie). Kornet seems highly likely he'll be back. Champagnie might not be back. So that leaves 1-2 open roster spots. The last roster spot probably is open heading into training camp for guys to compete for it (or possibly leave it open. Which means we possibly sign 1 more FA. We might be done signing free agents, though..

Feel like if we sign another FA, it would be either....

-Blake Griffin
-Terence Davis
-Darius Bazley
-John Wall
-Javonte Green

I know we worked out Alize Johnson recently. But I think he would probably just be an exhibit 10 kind of guy who maybe just competes for the last roster spot in training camp.

[zoyathedestroya]

I like how Larry hasn’t lost a step in proposing trades (his 28,629th unique one by my count) amidst all the chaotic discussion. You da the realGM MVP.

[Celts17Pride]

300M to a guy that can’t dribble left, and has tunnel vision. Also doesn’t really fit with your main guy. This should be a no brainer. Smh

You failed to mention that JB doesn't really like Boston as well.

This is simply not true AT ALL.

Don't let truth get in the way of a good story. This board has a ton of really great story tellers.

[zoyathedestroya]

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