Miami Heat Offseason Thread 8.0 - 47 cRonin and the inevitable seppuku

[MiamiLoyal926]

Miami should move on from this trade. Cronin seems stubborn.

That’s what he wants us to do so that he can tell dame you see they don’t want you after all

If I’m Riley, I offer up lowry, jovic, herro, Martin, 2 future 1st for dame and if they don’t want it they can kiss my *ss

And that’s you losing your cool and falling for the bluff…

I would take out one of Jovic (option 1 b/c he is a cost controlled player) or Martin (option 2 b/c he is a win now player who will become too expensive for our books) from the deal. Don’t budge… hold your ground… that deal is a good deal for Dame’s contract.

Herro (=2FRPs or =1FRP + a good player in return)
Martin (=1FRP to a contending team)
Lowry (=1-2SRPs as an expiring in this stringent CBA)
+2FRPs

I see a total of 5 FRPs and up to 2 SRPs in value going to the Blazers.

Our 2 FRPs are so far down the road, and outside the window of contention that they may be gold or bust at this point… they aren’t for sure late picks like many suggest so they are low value FRPs as of today.

[Tony15]

Miami should move on from this trade. Cronin seems stubborn.

Lmao he’s just doing his job.

If we’re being honest, Dame is the one being difficult by trying to create an artificial no trade clause.

Yup, but after getting jerked around by his organization I don't blame him. He's doing what he feels in his best interest. Battle of wills as they say.

[contract]

Miami should move on from this trade. Cronin seems stubborn.

That’s what he wants us to do so that he can tell dame you see they don’t want you after all

If I’m Riley, I offer up lowry, jovic, herro, Martin, 2 future 1st for dame and if they don’t want it they can kiss my *ss

I think this is too much....I want Dame don't get me wrong, but at THIS price? We're coming off a Finals, we ain't desperate.

Too much? That's nothing. Old man Dame averaged 32 ppg on efficiency that Herro can't achieve shooting hoops alone in the gym.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[contract]

Before I forget again ... does anyone know if Yurt and his agent ever found another team that "values him"?

[MiamiLoyal926]

Miami should move on from this trade. Cronin seems stubborn.

Lmao he’s just doing his job.

If we’re being honest, Dame is the one being difficult by trying to create an artificial no trade clause.

I think he isn’t wrong for expecting it to be honored either…

He should have negotiated it into the contract though… but imagine there was a trust factor that led to him putting faith in his FO to do right by him.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Miami should move on from this trade. Cronin seems stubborn.

That’s what he wants us to do so that he can tell dame you see they don’t want you after all

If I’m Riley, I offer up lowry, jovic, herro, Martin, 2 future 1st for dame and if they don’t want it they can kiss my *ss

I think this is too much....I want Dame don't get me wrong, but at THIS price? We're coming off a Finals, we ain't desperate.

Tony… I like your reasonableness!

[MorbidHEAT]

Read on Twitter

Kevin Durant is still close to coming to Miami as well. At this point I’ll believe it when I hear the stupid ESPN jingle on my phone.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Miami should move on from this trade. Cronin seems stubborn.

You guys seriously need to think about this stuff. Why in the world would Miami move on when they have a superstar that is putting their neck out and demanding to only be traded to your team. Why would you drop out of talks and basically push Dame to add more teams to his list. You shoot yourself in the foot the moment you do that.

Miami has time on their side here with how everything is going. There's no reason to drop out of talks.

X100

Don’t drop… hold firm.

[Tony15]

That’s what he wants us to do so that he can tell dame you see they don’t want you after all

If I’m Riley, I offer up lowry, jovic, herro, Martin, 2 future 1st for dame and if they don’t want it they can kiss my *ss

I think this is too much....I want Dame don't get me wrong, but at THIS price? We're coming off a Finals, we ain't desperate.

Too much? That's nothing. Old man Dame averaged 32 ppg on efficiency that Herro can't achieve shooting hoops alone in the gym.

By too much, I mostly meant Jovic. Herro's gotta go because he's only real proven young prospect we have & I'm cool with the others going if it means keeping Jovic & JJJ. Point being, we got the leverage now.

[Fitz303]

The truth is most of us are guilty of the same crime we assign to Cronin :

We overestimate the objective value of 33YO Lilard on his current contract.

Lilard is a great scorer, he's also tough and likable.

He's also a 33YO tiny guard owed 200+ Mil$ until he's 36 YO, after missing a lot of time in recent years and being a minus defender even now before his decline worsens.

Simply put - there are dozens, yes dozens of higher value contract in the NBA.

That's why other teams aren't offering the entire farm for him, and it's why we shouldn't mortgage our entire future for him either.

A very good player, but small, getting old, on a MASSIVE guaranteed contract. That's the full picture here.

We want him, but you can't act desperate under these circumstances.

As a Blazers fan I don't want to get too back and forth with all of this, but the salary thing with Dame (and being a reason he's not getting back good offers) is way off base. The thing that so many people don't understand about NBA contracts is cap%. If you go back to just 7 years ago to the last big salary cap jump, you would all think these contracts that these FAs just this last week are getting would be franchise crippling deals. They're not. Including Dame's.

Not to be patronizing, I'm sure this is basic for many here. But the simple fact is, Dame's contract moving forward is perfectly in line with most players his caliber and age. For example

Steph Curry:
23/24 - Age 35 - salary is 38% of the leagues salary cap
24/25 - Age 36 - salary is 39% of the leagues salary cap
Damian Lillard:
25/26 - Age 35 - salary is 37% of the leagues salary cap
26/27 - Age 36 - salary is 36% of the leagues salary cap

Damian Lillard will be making the equivalent of what Steph Curry is making this year and next year at his age 35 and age 36 years. Do you think Golden State would pick up the phone today for a Tyler Herro offer? Even if they were rebuilding? Do you think GS could do Wayyy better than that offer? The answer is likely yes. And he's already at 35 years old. Dame is still 32. Steph is a clearly more accomplished player, but they're the same realm of player.

Portland can't get better offers, not because of his contract, but because Dame and his agent have suppressed the market in the media. This is why Portland is in no rush to move him, and will likely wait until they soften their stance on other teams, and more offers roll in.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Blazers are willing to wait for that Robert Williams offer to roll in.

[fishfuego.]

Read on Twitter

Kevin Durant is still close to coming to Miami as well. At this point I’ll believe it when I hear the stupid ESPN jingle on my phone.

Stupid jingle indeed.

[al bondiga]

the "dame" is too old and naggy

[miamiballer]

Who is Lucas burns

[insfo]

Read on Twitter

Who is Lucas Burns? A quick google search seems to find a "Experienced Project Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the Tech industry." from Portland. Is that the guy?

[MiamiLoyal926]

The truth is most of us are guilty of the same crime we assign to Cronin :

We overestimate the objective value of 33YO Lilard on his current contract.

Lilard is a great scorer, he's also tough and likable.

He's also a 33YO tiny guard owed 200+ Mil$ until he's 36 YO, after missing a lot of time in recent years and being a minus defender even now before his decline worsens.

Simply put - there are dozens, yes dozens of higher value contract in the NBA.

That's why other teams aren't offering the entire farm for him, and it's why we shouldn't mortgage our entire future for him either.

A very good player, but small, getting old, on a MASSIVE guaranteed contract. That's the full picture here.

We want him, but you can't act desperate under these circumstances.

As a Blazers fan I don't want to get too back and forth with all of this, but the salary thing with Dame (and being a reason he's not getting back good offers) is way off base. The thing that so many people don't understand about NBA contracts is cap%. If you go back to just 7 years ago to the last big salary cap jump, you would all think these contracts that these FAs just this last week are getting would be franchise crippling deals. They're not. Including Dame's.

Not to be patronizing, I'm sure this is basic for many here. But the simple fact is, Dame's contract moving forward is perfectly in line with most players his caliber and age. For example

Steph Curry:
23/24 - Age 35 - salary is 38% of the leagues salary cap
24/25 - Age 36 - salary is 39% of the leagues salary cap
Damian Lillard:
25/26 - Age 35 - salary is 37% of the leagues salary cap
26/27 - Age 36 - salary is 36% of the leagues salary cap

Damian Lillard will be making the equivalent of what Steph Curry is making this year and next year at his age 35 and age 36 years. Do you think Golden State would pick up the phone today for a Tyler Herro offer? Even if they were rebuilding? Do you think GS could do Wayyy better than that offer? The answer is likely yes. And he's already at 35 years old. Dame is still 32. Steph is a clearly more accomplished player, but they're the same realm of player.

Portland can't get better offers, not because of his contract, but because Dame and his agent have suppressed the market in the media. This is why Portland is in no rush to move him, and will likely wait until they soften their stance on other teams, and more offers roll in.

You are 30+ pages too late… but I did post a salary cap projection with Dame on our books for the next 4 years… Dame on the books through age 36 is a … how did you phrase it… a “franchise crippling deal” when coupled with sending out too many good and valuable assets (good players, expiring contracts, and future picks).

Absorbing Dame’s contract can be done, and Dame is a good player… that is why we are even considering it… but you can't take that guaranteed cap killing contract, while hope the player continues to live up to it through sustained performance (at an older near retirement age), while also hope he avoids injury, and then also give out too many valuable assets while already carrying the burden of the risk involved with an aging guard at a max contract.

Steph at his age and money is worth it to GS because that is their face and franchise defining player. He has won the rings, brought so much to the league and GS, and has three years left on that contract… not 4. He is a generational talent who has redefined the nba… sorry but you can’t compare the value of the two(Steph to Dame). Dame is not Steph. GS nor Steph would EVER entertain the thought because each has given what was needed to one another at every turn in their tenure.

Dame’s value unfortunately is higher to the Blazers than it is to anyone else. His contract does carry risk and concern and as such, expectations do need to be tempered by the Blazer’s side of the table.

[fishfuego.]

The truth is most of us are guilty of the same crime we assign to Cronin :

We overestimate the objective value of 33YO Lilard on his current contract.

Lilard is a great scorer, he's also tough and likable.

He's also a 33YO tiny guard owed 200+ Mil$ until he's 36 YO, after missing a lot of time in recent years and being a minus defender even now before his decline worsens.

Simply put - there are dozens, yes dozens of higher value contract in the NBA.

That's why other teams aren't offering the entire farm for him, and it's why we shouldn't mortgage our entire future for him either.

A very good player, but small, getting old, on a MASSIVE guaranteed contract. That's the full picture here.

We want him, but you can't act desperate under these circumstances.

As a Blazers fan I don't want to get too back and forth with all of this, but the salary thing with Dame (and being a reason he's not getting back good offers) is way off base. The thing that so many people don't understand about NBA contracts is cap%. If you go back to just 7 years ago to the last big salary cap jump, you would all think these contracts that these FAs just this last week are getting would be franchise crippling deals. They're not. Including Dame's.

Not to be patronizing, I'm sure this is basic for many here. But the simple fact is, Dame's contract moving forward is perfectly in line with most players his caliber and age. For example

Steph Curry:
23/24 - Age 35 - salary is 38% of the leagues salary cap
24/25 - Age 36 - salary is 39% of the leagues salary cap
Damian Lillard:
25/26 - Age 35 - salary is 37% of the leagues salary cap
26/27 - Age 36 - salary is 36% of the leagues salary cap

Damian Lillard will be making the equivalent of what Steph Curry is making this year and next year at his age 35 and age 36 years. Do you think Golden State would pick up the phone today for a Tyler Herro offer? Even if they were rebuilding? Do you think GS could do Wayyy better than that offer? The answer is likely yes. And he's already at 35 years old. Dame is still 32. Steph is a clearly more accomplished player, but they're the same realm of player.

Portland can't get better offers, not because of his contract, but because Dame and his agent have suppressed the market in the media. This is why Portland is in no rush to move him, and will likely wait until they soften their stance on other teams, and more offers roll in.

If you truly believe that teams are not looking at age vs money, then there shouldn’t be another discussion here.
Just because a hand full of players will get that huge bag at the age of 36/37, doesn’t make it less concerning. Physical declination at such age is a fact of life, not some mystical tale. Those other teams will live with their player’s cost as a payment for years of commitment, in Miami’s case it is purely due to a window that is closing fast, Butler’s window. Nothing else.

[MiamiLoyal926]

The truth is most of us are guilty of the same crime we assign to Cronin :

We overestimate the objective value of 33YO Lilard on his current contract.

Lilard is a great scorer, he's also tough and likable.

He's also a 33YO tiny guard owed 200+ Mil$ until he's 36 YO, after missing a lot of time in recent years and being a minus defender even now before his decline worsens.

Simply put - there are dozens, yes dozens of higher value contract in the NBA.

That's why other teams aren't offering the entire farm for him, and it's why we shouldn't mortgage our entire future for him either.

A very good player, but small, getting old, on a MASSIVE guaranteed contract. That's the full picture here.

We want him, but you can't act desperate under these circumstances.

As a Blazers fan I don't want to get too back and forth with all of this, but the salary thing with Dame (and being a reason he's not getting back good offers) is way off base. The thing that so many people don't understand about NBA contracts is cap%. If you go back to just 7 years ago to the last big salary cap jump, you would all think these contracts that these FAs just this last week are getting would be franchise crippling deals. They're not. Including Dame's.

Not to be patronizing, I'm sure this is basic for many here. But the simple fact is, Dame's contract moving forward is perfectly in line with most players his caliber and age. For example

Steph Curry:
23/24 - Age 35 - salary is 38% of the leagues salary cap
24/25 - Age 36 - salary is 39% of the leagues salary cap
Damian Lillard:
25/26 - Age 35 - salary is 37% of the leagues salary cap
26/27 - Age 36 - salary is 36% of the leagues salary cap

Damian Lillard will be making the equivalent of what Steph Curry is making this year and next year at his age 35 and age 36 years. Do you think Golden State would pick up the phone today for a Tyler Herro offer? Even if they were rebuilding? Do you think GS could do Wayyy better than that offer? The answer is likely yes. And he's already at 35 years old. Dame is still 32. Steph is a clearly more accomplished player, but they're the same realm of player.

Portland can't get better offers, not because of his contract, but because Dame and his agent have suppressed the market in the media. This is why Portland is in no rush to move him, and will likely wait until they soften their stance on other teams, and more offers roll in.

If you truly believe that teams are not looking at age vs money, then there shouldn’t be another discussion here.
Just because a hand full of players will get that huge bag at the age of 36/37, doesn’t make it less concerning. Physical declination at such age is a fact of life, not some mystical tale. Those other teams will live with their player’s cost as a payment for years of commitment, in Miami’s case it is purely due to a window that is closing fast, Butler’s window. Nothing else.

Agreed! The current contract was earned in Portland and given as a legacy contract by them… Dame’s next team has had zero benefit over the 11 years that Dame earned this contract through. His next team will carry all the burden of such a contract with zero to show for it and all they can do is hope that he can still live up to at least a high fraction of its cost!

Dame is a high risk.. HOPEFULLY a high reward type of move. History does not favor us though because as fishfuego so elegantly put it… “Physical declination at such age is a fact of life, not some mystical tale.”

[Tony15]

And the sooner Cronin realizes this, the sooner this gets finalized. He can crow all he wants (don't blame him), but he knows he botched this the moment he came out and lied about the initial meeting with Dame being productive. We likely don't know the whole story obviously, but appearances are everything these days.....and now the dude has to save face. He's leveraged out his eyeballs, and every other team in the league knows it at this point.

EDIT: Oh and even POR own fanbase realizes it apparently based on what I'm reading lol