What's the strongest data-driven argument for Michael Jordan as GOAT?

[WarriorGM]

pippen n grant were a 55 win team without mj. just pippen was still 50+. who cares about "all-stars"

bron beat a 73-win team with less help. russell cooked wilt n west with less help. mj's never won **** without a team that didn't need him to cook

Honestly speaking, your argument wasn’t very convincing. I was hoping for more.

Really all you said is longevity and then some reaching arguments and false equivalence.

I don’t really want to go through the whole Pc board thread. Can someone present the best lebron argument here so we can review? What’s been posted so far is pretty weak.

nah reachin is tryna use all-stars to say a team that was very good without mj wasnt actually very good. imagine thinkin all-stars matters more than winning. cavs were bad without lebron and then beat a 73 win team with him. lebron was winning 60 n 66 b2b with less help than mj needed just to win 50. bron a way better defender n better attacker so idk what the confusion is.

there was a good take down in the top 10 overrated thread. idk where that is

Funny seeing people making a big deal about beating a 73-win team that was down a starter for the last 3 games of their series and who had its best player returning from injuries earlier in the playoffs is made into a big deal but actually leading a team to 70+ wins isn't.

[ShaqAttac]

Honestly speaking, your argument wasn’t very convincing. I was hoping for more.

Really all you said is longevity and then some reaching arguments and false equivalence.

I don’t really want to go through the whole Pc board thread. Can someone present the best lebron argument here so we can review? What’s been posted so far is pretty weak.

nah reachin is tryna use all-stars to say a team that was very good without mj wasnt actually very good. imagine thinkin all-stars matters more than winning. cavs were bad without lebron and then beat a 73 win team with him. lebron was winning 60 n 66 b2b with less help than mj needed just to win 50. bron a way better defender n better attacker so idk what the confusion is.

there was a good take down in the top 10 overrated thread. idk where that is

Funny seeing people making a big deal about beating a 73-win team that was down a starter for the last 3 games of their series and who had its best player returning from injuries earlier in the playoffs is made into a big deal but actually leading a team to 70+ wins isn't.

didnt klove have a concussion? bron also took yall to 6 without help in 2015 so i dont really understand the excuse-makin.

[WarriorGM]

nah reachin is tryna use all-stars to say a team that was very good without mj wasnt actually very good. imagine thinkin all-stars matters more than winning. cavs were bad without lebron and then beat a 73 win team with him. lebron was winning 60 n 66 b2b with less help than mj needed just to win 50. bron a way better defender n better attacker so idk what the confusion is.

there was a good take down in the top 10 overrated thread. idk where that is

Funny seeing people making a big deal about beating a 73-win team that was down a starter for the last 3 games of their series and who had its best player returning from injuries earlier in the playoffs is made into a big deal but actually leading a team to 70+ wins isn't.

didnt klove have a concussion? bron also took yall to 6 without help in 2015 so i dont really understand the excuse-makin.

What's your excuse for citing a victory over a team with a great wins record but completely ignoring your guy never led a team to 67 wins?

[ShaqAttac]

Funny seeing people making a big deal about beating a 73-win team that was down a starter for the last 3 games of their series and who had its best player returning from injuries earlier in the playoffs is made into a big deal but actually leading a team to 70+ wins isn't.

didnt klove have a concussion? bron also took yall to 6 without help in 2015 so i dont really understand the excuse-makin.

What's your excuse for citing a victory over a team with a great wins record but completely ignoring your guy never led a team to 67 wins?

the guy who i voted for is bill russell who won 11 with less help than mj or curry had. bron's excuse is that his teams werent as good. bron's teams were bad without him. when mj and steph had bad teams they only win 50. russ n bron both beat superteams with mid. mj n steph needed superteams to win

[WarriorGM]

didnt klove have a concussion? bron also took yall to 6 without help in 2015 so i dont really understand the excuse-makin.

What's your excuse for citing a victory over a team with a great wins record but completely ignoring your guy never led a team to 67 wins?

the guy who i voted for is bill russell who won 11 with less help than mj or curry had. bron's excuse is that his teams werent as good. bron's teams were bad without him. when mj and steph had bad teams they only win 50. russ n bron both beat superteams with mid. mj n steph needed superteams to win

Bill Russell had less help? That's a new one. I wonder what the Wilt and Oscar fans will say to that! In 11 finals series he won he led his team in scoring a grand total of twice—and just barely in those two instances.

[ShaqAttac]

What's your excuse for citing a victory over a team with a great wins record but completely ignoring your guy never led a team to 67 wins?

the guy who i voted for is bill russell who won 11 with less help than mj or curry had. bron's excuse is that his teams werent as good. bron's teams were bad without him. when mj and steph had bad teams they only win 50. russ n bron both beat superteams with mid. mj n steph needed superteams to win

Bill Russell had less help? That's a new one. I wonder what the Wilt and Oscar fans will say to that! In 11 finals series he won he led his team in scoring a grand total of twice—and just barely in those two instances.

"led in scoring" like the celtics were good on o. maybe u, wilt, n oscar should learn how to cope, because the celtics were bad without russ. the dubs n bulls were good without steph n mj. russell didnt need pee pee gee to be better. stop makin excuses.

[WarriorGM]

the guy who i voted for is bill russell who won 11 with less help than mj or curry had. bron's excuse is that his teams werent as good. bron's teams were bad without him. when mj and steph had bad teams they only win 50. russ n bron both beat superteams with mid. mj n steph needed superteams to win

Bill Russell had less help? That's a new one. I wonder what the Wilt and Oscar fans will say to that! In 11 finals series he won he led his team in scoring a grand total of twice—and just barely in those two instances.

"led in scoring" like the celtics were good on o. maybe u, wilt, n oscar should learn how to cope, because the celtics were bad without russ. the dubs n bulls were good without steph n mj. russell didnt need pee pee gee to be better. stop makin excuses.

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

[ShaqAttac]

Bill Russell had less help? That's a new one. I wonder what the Wilt and Oscar fans will say to that! In 11 finals series he won he led his team in scoring a grand total of twice—and just barely in those two instances.

"led in scoring" like the celtics were good on o. maybe u, wilt, n oscar should learn how to cope, because the celtics were bad without russ. the dubs n bulls were good without steph n mj. russell didnt need pee pee gee to be better. stop makin excuses.

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

so loaded they missed the playoffs without him

u literally just citin wikipedia pages.

[WarriorGM]

"led in scoring" like the celtics were good on o. maybe u, wilt, n oscar should learn how to cope, because the celtics were bad without russ. the dubs n bulls were good without steph n mj. russell didnt need pee pee gee to be better. stop makin excuses.

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

so loaded they missed the playoffs without him

u literally just citin wikipedia pages.

When a team loses 2 of its 3 best players to retirement that can certainly happen.

[70sFan]

Bill Russell had less help? That's a new one. I wonder what the Wilt and Oscar fans will say to that! In 11 finals series he won he led his team in scoring a grand total of twice—and just barely in those two instances.

"led in scoring" like the celtics were good on o. maybe u, wilt, n oscar should learn how to cope, because the celtics were bad without russ. the dubs n bulls were good without steph n mj. russell didnt need pee pee gee to be better. stop makin excuses.

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

What made Tom Heinsohn a great player? What were his strengths and weaknesses?

[70sFan]

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

so loaded they missed the playoffs without him

u literally just citin wikipedia pages.

When a team loses 2 of its 3 best players to retirement that can certainly happen.

Jones wasn't Celtics 3rd best player in 1969.

[WarriorGM]

"led in scoring" like the celtics were good on o. maybe u, wilt, n oscar should learn how to cope, because the celtics were bad without russ. the dubs n bulls were good without steph n mj. russell didnt need pee pee gee to be better. stop makin excuses.

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

What made Tom Heinsohn a great player? What were his strengths and weaknesses?

Might as well ask what makes Klay Thompson a great player. Heinsohn averaged more points in the playoffs in his career than Thompson.

[70sFan]

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

What made Tom Heinsohn a great player? What were his strengths and weaknesses?

Might as well ask what makes Klay Thompson a great player. Heinsohn averaged more points in the playoffs in his career than Thompson.

Don't change the topic. I wouldn't call Klay a great player.
What makes Heinsohn a great player?

[Gregoire]

Jordan is as statistically dominant as Lebron BEING as accomplished as Russell. Its why he is GOAT. Empty stats doesnt matters. And winning without dominance matters less.

[ShaqAttac]

Russell played on loaded teams. Tom Heinsohn for example was a 6x All-Star, 4x All-NBA, and Rookie of the Year. He's probably not even a top 3 teammate of Russell's. Your ignorance is plain as day.

so loaded they missed the playoffs without him

u literally just citin wikipedia pages.

When a team loses 2 of its 3 best players to retirement that can certainly happen.

now i know u aint talkin bout 6th man sam jones

"ignorance plain as day"

[70sFan]

Jordan is as statistically dominant as Lebron BEING as accomplished as Russell. Its why he is GOAT. Empty stats doesnt matters. And winning without dominance matters less.

But Jordan doesn't have as much accomplishements as Russell. What do you mean by "statistically dominant" - that he scored more points? That's not what makes player more dominant on the basketball court.

[WarriorGM]

What made Tom Heinsohn a great player? What were his strengths and weaknesses?

Might as well ask what makes Klay Thompson a great player. Heinsohn averaged more points in the playoffs in his career than Thompson.

Don't change the topic. I wouldn't call Klay a great player.
What makes Heinsohn a great player?

Well I didn't call Heinsohn a great player either but being the highest scorer multiple times on championship teams with three/four other players who are on the 75th Anniversary Team is nothing to sneeze at.

[ShaqAttac]

Might as well ask what makes Klay Thompson a great player. Heinsohn averaged more points in the playoffs in his career than Thompson.

Don't change the topic. I wouldn't call Klay a great player.
What makes Heinsohn a great player?

Well I didn't call Heinsohn a great player either but being the highest scorer multiple times on championship teams with three/four other players who are on the 75th Anniversary Team is nothing to sneeze at.

winning 6 with with 55 win teammates = more stat dominant
winning 11 with 35 win teammates = less stat dominant

make it make sense

[ShaqAttac]

What made Tom Heinsohn a great player? What were his strengths and weaknesses?

Might as well ask what makes Klay Thompson a great player. Heinsohn averaged more points in the playoffs in his career than Thompson.

Don't change the topic. I wouldn't call Klay a great player.
What makes Heinsohn a great player?

he prob just looked at his wikipedia page. just like 25 mpg sam jones

[WarriorGM]

Might as well ask what makes Klay Thompson a great player. Heinsohn averaged more points in the playoffs in his career than Thompson.

Don't change the topic. I wouldn't call Klay a great player.
What makes Heinsohn a great player?

he prob just looked at his wikipedia page. just like 25 mpg sam jones

Second leading scorer by volume and most efficient in the 1969 finals on that team. Given that he is one of three players on the 75th Anniversary Team on those Celtics it is fair to extend him the courtesy of being called one of the three best players on that team.